PvP December 2018

CatchMeTrolling

Saying rending ticks every 2 secs doesn’t make it sound better but worse because what would be it’s dps if it actually ticked per second? Plus other dots are likely going to be on the player too. The better argument would be that it’s a single target ability.

Sanctum74

haakira wrote: »

I don't get why people are getting so off topic?
What he's trying to show is that a DOT skill is doing way more than all ultimates that were dumped on him.
A DOT that can also have attached to it another bleed, which does similar damage on top of it.
So yeah, it's pretty dumb damage from a such a low cost, almost 100% uptime, low effort skill.

Sounds like everyone is right on topic. OP got outplayed, but randomly pulls bleeds out of his recap and makes yet another bleeds are too op nerf thread.

As others have pointed out through basic math the bleeds did not do more damage than the ultimates. The bleed damage was done over 10 seconds, northern storm 7 seconds, and leap 1 second so over time bleeds did the least amount of damage than the ults.

haakira

Sanctum74 wrote: »

haakira wrote: »

I don't get why people are getting so off topic?
What he's trying to show is that a DOT skill is doing way more than all ultimates that were dumped on him.
A DOT that can also have attached to it another bleed, which does similar damage on top of it.
So yeah, it's pretty dumb damage from a such a low cost, almost 100% uptime, low effort skill.

Sounds like everyone is right on topic. OP got outplayed, but randomly pulls bleeds out of his recap and makes yet another bleeds are too op nerf thread.

As others have pointed out through basic math the bleeds did not do more damage than the ultimates. The bleed damage was done over 10 seconds, northern storm 7 seconds, and leap 1 second so over time bleeds did the least amount of damage than the ults.

Hey man I'm not saying I agree about making a new bleed nerf topic, there's already too many that I think the point has been made. But it is what the OP was trying to highlight on his death recap.

In any case, we're still talking about a regular dot vs an ultimate. Ultimate damage should always be superior no matter what since it takes time to build up.
Rending slashes and the DW passive should provide some sustained damage but not to the amounts we're seeing now. Like Viper set does around 2.2k in BG's every 4 seconds. That's fine sustained damage. 6-8k plus the DW bleed for 5-7k is clearly over the top (with an added snare too)

jaws343

haakira wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

haakira wrote: »

I don't get why people are getting so off topic?
What he's trying to show is that a DOT skill is doing way more than all ultimates that were dumped on him.
A DOT that can also have attached to it another bleed, which does similar damage on top of it.
So yeah, it's pretty dumb damage from a such a low cost, almost 100% uptime, low effort skill.

Sounds like everyone is right on topic. OP got outplayed, but randomly pulls bleeds out of his recap and makes yet another bleeds are too op nerf thread.

As others have pointed out through basic math the bleeds did not do more damage than the ultimates. The bleed damage was done over 10 seconds, northern storm 7 seconds, and leap 1 second so over time bleeds did the least amount of damage than the ults.

Hey man I'm not saying I agree about making a new bleed nerf topic, there's already too many that I think the point has been made. But it is what the OP was trying to highlight on his death recap.

In any case, we're still talking about a regular dot vs an ultimate. Ultimate damage should always be superior no matter what since it takes time to build up.
Rending slashes and the DW passive should provide some sustained damage but not to the amounts we're seeing now. Like Viper set does around 2.2k in BG's every 4 seconds. That's fine sustained damage. 6-8k plus the DW bleed for 5-7k is clearly over the top (with an added snare too)

The problem is, this death recap is useless to determine how Rending is performing compared to those Ultimates. As has been stated here already, there is no way to know what builds these people are running.

For example: Player 1 could run a build optimized to make the most out of dots. Player 2 could be running a build that is tanky and does very little damage. Player 1's Rending is clearly going to be more effective than player 2's ultimate since Player 1 has built around that skill and that damage type.

Another example. I have a build that can get a nearly 80K tooltip on soul assault. I have another build that only has a soul assault tooltip of around 50K. Build matters. So trying to compare the damage of 1 skill against an ultimate on a completely different build is useless.

Trancestor

Blobsky has log

haakira

jaws343 wrote: »

The problem is, this death recap is useless to determine how Rending is performing compared to those Ultimates. As has been stated here already, there is no way to know what builds these people are running.

For example: Player 1 could run a build optimized to make the most out of dots. Player 2 could be running a build that is tanky and does very little damage. Player 1's Rending is clearly going to be more effective than player 2's ultimate since Player 1 has built around that skill and that damage type.

Another example. I have a build that can get a nearly 80K tooltip on soul assault. I have another build that only has a soul assault tooltip of around 50K. Build matters. So trying to compare the damage of 1 skill against an ultimate on a completely different build is useless.

While that is true, it doesn't take much to make a bleed build viable. Just boosting your stam+weap damage as you do for any stamina build will ramp its damage.

My only issue with it is that it ignores all defenses, unlike all other types of damage but Oblivion, making it very easy to get a
lot out of it with little effort.

I just wish they removed all damage that bypasses defenses. Or make bleed do more damage the more defenses you have, leaving light/medium in a safer spot against it.

heavier

heavier

Sanctum74 wrote: »

haakira wrote: »

I don't get why people are getting so off topic?
What he's trying to show is that a DOT skill is doing way more than all ultimates that were dumped on him.
A DOT that can also have attached to it another bleed, which does similar damage on top of it.
So yeah, it's pretty dumb damage from a such a low cost, almost 100% uptime, low effort skill.

Sounds like everyone is right on topic. OP got outplayed, but randomly pulls bleeds out of his recap and makes yet another bleeds are too op nerf thread.

As others have pointed out through basic math the bleeds did not do more damage than the ultimates. The bleed damage was done over 10 seconds, northern storm 7 seconds, and leap 1 second so over time bleeds did the least amount of damage than the ults.

bleeding doesn't really cause structural damage, despite what you may been taught or come to believe

the problem with 2 second ticks that people don't realize is that you can have 80% HP

then three things tick at once and you die from one additional shot.

you people are blind and I'm here to guide you to MMO goodness.

Sanctum74

heavier wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

haakira wrote: »

I don't get why people are getting so off topic?
What he's trying to show is that a DOT skill is doing way more than all ultimates that were dumped on him.
A DOT that can also have attached to it another bleed, which does similar damage on top of it.
So yeah, it's pretty dumb damage from a such a low cost, almost 100% uptime, low effort skill.

Sounds like everyone is right on topic. OP got outplayed, but randomly pulls bleeds out of his recap and makes yet another bleeds are too op nerf thread.

As others have pointed out through basic math the bleeds did not do more damage than the ultimates. The bleed damage was done over 10 seconds, northern storm 7 seconds, and leap 1 second so over time bleeds did the least amount of damage than the ults.

bleeding doesn't really cause structural damage, despite what you may been taught or come to believe

the problem with 2 second ticks that people don't realize is that you can have 80% HP

then three things tick at once and you die from one additional shot.

you people are blind and I'm here to guide you to MMO goodness.

And that's why you keep your buffs and hot's up 100% of the time, don't stand in red, and use situational awareness.

If you're dieing to 3 ticks and a 1 shot then you clearly have not reached MMO goodness yet.

heavier

Sanctum74 wrote: »

heavier wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

haakira wrote: »

I don't get why people are getting so off topic?
What he's trying to show is that a DOT skill is doing way more than all ultimates that were dumped on him.
A DOT that can also have attached to it another bleed, which does similar damage on top of it.
So yeah, it's pretty dumb damage from a such a low cost, almost 100% uptime, low effort skill.

Sounds like everyone is right on topic. OP got outplayed, but randomly pulls bleeds out of his recap and makes yet another bleeds are too op nerf thread.

As others have pointed out through basic math the bleeds did not do more damage than the ultimates. The bleed damage was done over 10 seconds, northern storm 7 seconds, and leap 1 second so over time bleeds did the least amount of damage than the ults.

bleeding doesn't really cause structural damage, despite what you may been taught or come to believe

the problem with 2 second ticks that people don't realize is that you can have 80% HP

then three things tick at once and you die from one additional shot.

you people are blind and I'm here to guide you to MMO goodness.

And that's why you keep your buffs and hot's up 100% of the time, don't stand in red, and use situational awareness.

If you're dieing to 3 ticks and a 1 shot then you clearly have not reached MMO goodness yet.

every multiplayer game I've put time into has better PvP this garbage

heavier

Sanctum74 wrote: »

heavier wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

haakira wrote: »

I don't get why people are getting so off topic?
What he's trying to show is that a DOT skill is doing way more than all ultimates that were dumped on him.
A DOT that can also have attached to it another bleed, which does similar damage on top of it.
So yeah, it's pretty dumb damage from a such a low cost, almost 100% uptime, low effort skill.

Sounds like everyone is right on topic. OP got outplayed, but randomly pulls bleeds out of his recap and makes yet another bleeds are too op nerf thread.

As others have pointed out through basic math the bleeds did not do more damage than the ultimates. The bleed damage was done over 10 seconds, northern storm 7 seconds, and leap 1 second so over time bleeds did the least amount of damage than the ults.

bleeding doesn't really cause structural damage, despite what you may been taught or come to believe

the problem with 2 second ticks that people don't realize is that you can have 80% HP

then three things tick at once and you die from one additional shot.

you people are blind and I'm here to guide you to MMO goodness.

And that's why you keep your buffs and hot's up 100% of the time, don't stand in red, and use situational awareness.

If you're dieing to 3 ticks and a 1 shot then you clearly have not reached MMO goodness yet.

more detailed reply on your incorrect assertion
I started at 80% HP
3 things ticked at once, probably taking me to well below 50% and then they used an execution. do you understand now?

let's put how bleeding works irl under a microscope

if you're about to be hemorrhaging blood from multiple wounds, your heart is probably around 180 bpm cuz so much is going wrong.

let's figure how often your hemorrhaging would tick in this scenario

3x per second

if you're in a state where of remote recovery I'm assuming the pulse would spike from there and you would start gasping for air, as your blood pressure drops hopefully the blood loss will slow to the point where it can clot

you would die no matter what if your heart was beating at 30 bpm and you sustained ANY wounds

you can't do combat at 30 bpm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgGBAnSftVs
you can't even make music at 30bpm.
the damage model is so saturated and blown of proportion the bleed ticks hit harder than a single wrecking blow

heavier

also as a footnote: how does bleed proc so easy on HA?

it's like the dude's a walking piece of metal how'd you cause bloodloss so casually?

STOPPING bleeding on the other hand should many orders of magnitude more difficult and if anything bleed should only be abated to the point it does fewer DPS until the player leaves combat.

PhoenixGrey

Skander wrote: »

You see what's wrong with this picture

No steel tornado? Looks like someone just applied and forgot.

Sanctum74

@heavier I gave you an awesome on all your posts just for your passion and humor, but when it comes down to facts, every skill, proc, and passive damage in this game has a counter to it including bleeds, but counters only works if you use them.

heavier

Sanctum74 wrote: »

@heavier I gave you an awesome on all your posts just for your passion and humor, but when it comes down to facts, every skill, proc, and passive damage in this game has a counter to it including bleeds, but counters only works if you use them.

neat is there a way I convert the awesomes to crowns or something?
I appreciate the rock paper scissors analogy.
I can't proc ticks of bleeds like burst dps, when it should be constant drain of HP until it is addressed.
I felt cheated on that particular death because I had completely escaped the group that put the DoT on me and had positive confirmation on my health bar that I was at 80+% HP. the moment I look up from my HP bar I'm dead.

heavier

I would build to counter bleed if there was way to do it rationally.
but HoT again doesn't make sense to me entirely as a counter to bleed.
it's more that bleed is a counter to HoT.

I was at a point where I probably couldn't have cast vigor because my stamina was practically depleted from running from spawn to the battle and immediately back out.

all this is made worse by lag that leaks from every possible orifice.

Sanctum74

heavier wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

@heavier I gave you an awesome on all your posts just for your passion and humor, but when it comes down to facts, every skill, proc, and passive damage in this game has a counter to it including bleeds, but counters only works if you use them.

neat is there a way I convert the awesomes to crowns or something?
I appreciate the rock paper scissors analogy.
I can't proc ticks of bleeds like burst dps, when it should be constant drain of HP until it is addressed.
I felt cheated on that particular death because I had completely escaped the group that put the DoT on me and had positive confirmation on my health bar that I was at 80+% HP. the moment I look up from my HP bar I'm dead.

Converting awesomes to crowns, sounds like a great idea!

As far as your death goes, sounds like it may have just been a lag desync. Sometimes the server just can't keep up with all the data and then all of a sudden you get hit with 4 seconds of abilities all it once.

Sadly there is no counter to lag, but its always fun to be instantly dead and then 3 seconds after laying dead on the ground you get to see all the animations and players that supposedly killed you.

heavier

Sanctum74 wrote: »

heavier wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

@heavier I gave you an awesome on all your posts just for your passion and humor, but when it comes down to facts, every skill, proc, and passive damage in this game has a counter to it including bleeds, but counters only works if you use them.

neat is there a way I convert the awesomes to crowns or something?
I appreciate the rock paper scissors analogy.
I can't proc ticks of bleeds like burst dps, when it should be constant drain of HP until it is addressed.
I felt cheated on that particular death because I had completely escaped the group that put the DoT on me and had positive confirmation on my health bar that I was at 80+% HP. the moment I look up from my HP bar I'm dead.

Converting awesomes to crowns, sounds like a great idea!

As far as your death goes, sounds like it may have just been a lag desync. Sometimes the server just can't keep up with all the data and then all of a sudden you get hit with 4 seconds of abilities all it once.

Sadly there is no counter to lag, but its always fun to be instantly dead and then 3 seconds after laying dead on the ground you get to see all the animations and players that supposedly killed you.

did you miss the bit where I point out that lag makes slow tick worse?
the only way 80% of my HP could have gone without an ult being cast (none was) is that they all procced at once and lag made it condense even further

heavier

https://my.mixtape.moe/tdedif.jpg
https://my.mixtape.moe/toilpw.jpg

wheem_ESO

jaws343 wrote: »

The problem is, this death recap is useless to determine how Rending is performing compared to those Ultimates. As has been stated here already, there is no way to know what builds these people are running.

For example: Player 1 could run a build optimized to make the most out of dots. Player 2 could be running a build that is tanky and does very little damage. Player 1's Rending is clearly going to be more effective than player 2's ultimate since Player 1 has built around that skill and that damage type.

Another example. I have a build that can get a nearly 80K tooltip on soul assault. I have another build that only has a soul assault tooltip of around 50K. Build matters. So trying to compare the damage of 1 skill against an ultimate on a completely different build is useless.

While true in theory, the numbers in his screenshot aren't really anything out of the ordinary - they all fall within the range of "normal" for Battlegrounds.

That Rending Slashes did 8,798 damage in 9 seconds (starts ticking one second after application, and ticks every two seconds afterwards; also does damage when applied, which would be shown separately if it were on the recap). This means that the average damage-per-tick would be 1,759.6, which breaks down to 977.5 damage-per-second.

The Northern Storm did 7,940 damage in 7 seconds (ticks once per second, as mentioned by other posters), which breaks down to 1,134.28 damage-per-tick/second. 'Course, it's a 200 cost ultimate that follows its user around; if you can escape, CC the opponent, or put them or their team under enough pressure, you stand a chance to avoid quite a bit of the damage from it. And, unlike Rending Slashes, if you do manage to avoid most of the damage, they can't just use 1 global cooldown and minimal resources to give it a second shot.

If we take exactly one tick away from the Rending Slashes in the OP's screenshot, we'll end up with 7 seconds worth of damage from each ability. This gives us 7,038.4 damage from the cheap bleed, vs 7,940 from the 200 cost ultimate - a total difference of 901.6 damage.

Vapirko

I do think they should do away with implosion. Magicka sorcs don’t need it, and stamina sorcs could then be buffed with stuff that can actually be used and controlled in a fight.

Moonsorrow

Skander wrote: »

You see what's wrong with this picture

I see nothing wrong.

1. You seem to be on a tanky character and died against a premade
2. After dying you took a screenshot and proceeded to make a forum post

Let us know if you need tips to improve your gameplay, tactics and situational awareness. Maybe we can help you become a bit more positive about things because you seem to be always on loosing teams and dying all the time and angry about it?

First thing that makes one a better player and helps your team to win is to not try to change the game (with nerf posts) so your own playstyle becomes stronger but to think what you might improve on the current situation on your personal build & playstyle.

I mean, i won yesterday evening all my battleground matches i did. Even against those well-known EU premades yes. There was nothing wrong with any skills or setups any enemies used. I switched my own gear & tactics based on game mode and enemies playstyle to counter them and to contribute to what made us win as a team. Can be a challenge with randoms on own team, but was/is part of the random chaotic fun that battlegrounds are.

I know, our ego often makes us not accept that some results are because of ourselves. Biggest obstacle for most before can improve.

I wish you happy holidays, relax and have fun and see ya on the battlegrounds!

Morgul667

Basically you died to dots, few ultimates and rng

No biggie

kaithuzar

idk wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Wrong: Rendering Slashes did more damage then a ultimate in fewer ticks

Also implosion is ridicule.

With the information provided we cannot see if that is an issue or not. If it is two different players then one could be tankier than the other.

Implosion has an extremely low chance to proc. 6% is very low. You just got unlucky.

Implosion proc can be setup & timed; it’s not luck because it will consistently proc.

6% chance is hard to time. It is a dice roll. Target has to be below 15% max health for it to proc. Seems so hard to time. It is luck, or unlucky depending on what side of the attack one is on.

Firstly, 6% chance is BS, find me someone who’s fought a stam sorc, died, & not had implosion on their death recap; YOU CANT!

Secondly, if you play a stam sorc,you should be aware, at least I can say anyone who watches Fengrush stream should be aware because he explains it clearly that the 15% is a technicality.
So if you have 19k health, for example sake, I hit you with 10k snipe that’s light attack animation & the light attack pushes you over the 15% marker, before it even lands, implosion will pre-emptively proc because it’s already calculated that you would be beneath that 15% marker, which doesn’t seem to take into account any potential outside healing or damage mitigation sources, as you basically die to a 1-shot.

Where I come from we don’t call that “luck”, we call that “bad coding”.

gepe87

We need a coherent and honest opinion about pvp from ZoS and their current plan for it. Every dlc they say they are working on pvp. Last time was a minor map change but we want a deeper proof that they are working on it.

bardx86

kaithuzar wrote: »

idk wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Wrong: Rendering Slashes did more damage then a ultimate in fewer ticks

Also implosion is ridicule.

With the information provided we cannot see if that is an issue or not. If it is two different players then one could be tankier than the other.

Implosion has an extremely low chance to proc. 6% is very low. You just got unlucky.

Implosion proc can be setup & timed; it’s not luck because it will consistently proc.

6% chance is hard to time. It is a dice roll. Target has to be below 15% max health for it to proc. Seems so hard to time. It is luck, or unlucky depending on what side of the attack one is on.

Firstly, 6% chance is BS, find me someone who’s fought a stam sorc, died, & not had implosion on their death recap; YOU CANT!

Secondly, if you play a stam sorc,you should be aware, at least I can say anyone who watches Fengrush stream should be aware because he explains it clearly that the 15% is a technicality.
So if you have 19k health, for example sake, I hit you with 10k snipe that’s light attack animation & the light attack pushes you over the 15% marker, before it even lands, implosion will pre-emptively proc because it’s already calculated that you would be beneath that 15% marker, which doesn’t seem to take into account any potential outside healing or damage mitigation sources, as you basically die to a 1-shot.

Where I come from we don’t call that “luck”, we call that “bad coding”.

I don't think i've ever seen implosion on my death recap but then again I don't die to stamsorcs often.

Skander

bardx86 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

idk wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Wrong: Rendering Slashes did more damage then a ultimate in fewer ticks

Also implosion is ridicule.

With the information provided we cannot see if that is an issue or not. If it is two different players then one could be tankier than the other.

Implosion has an extremely low chance to proc. 6% is very low. You just got unlucky.

Implosion proc can be setup & timed; it’s not luck because it will consistently proc.

6% chance is hard to time. It is a dice roll. Target has to be below 15% max health for it to proc. Seems so hard to time. It is luck, or unlucky depending on what side of the attack one is on.

Firstly, 6% chance is BS, find me someone who’s fought a stam sorc, died, & not had implosion on their death recap; YOU CANT!

Secondly, if you play a stam sorc,you should be aware, at least I can say anyone who watches Fengrush stream should be aware because he explains it clearly that the 15% is a technicality.
So if you have 19k health, for example sake, I hit you with 10k snipe that’s light attack animation & the light attack pushes you over the 15% marker, before it even lands, implosion will pre-emptively proc because it’s already calculated that you would be beneath that 15% marker, which doesn’t seem to take into account any potential outside healing or damage mitigation sources, as you basically die to a 1-shot.

Where I come from we don’t call that “luck”, we call that “bad coding”.

I don't think i've ever seen implosion on my death recap but then again I don't die to stamsorcs often.

Normal sorcs proc it too.

Brutusmax1mus

Implosion is the real problem

Waffennacht

heavier wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

heavier wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

haakira wrote: »

I don't get why people are getting so off topic?
What he's trying to show is that a DOT skill is doing way more than all ultimates that were dumped on him.
A DOT that can also have attached to it another bleed, which does similar damage on top of it.
So yeah, it's pretty dumb damage from a such a low cost, almost 100% uptime, low effort skill.

Sounds like everyone is right on topic. OP got outplayed, but randomly pulls bleeds out of his recap and makes yet another bleeds are too op nerf thread.

As others have pointed out through basic math the bleeds did not do more damage than the ultimates. The bleed damage was done over 10 seconds, northern storm 7 seconds, and leap 1 second so over time bleeds did the least amount of damage than the ults.

bleeding doesn't really cause structural damage, despite what you may been taught or come to believe

the problem with 2 second ticks that people don't realize is that you can have 80% HP

then three things tick at once and you die from one additional shot.

you people are blind and I'm here to guide you to MMO goodness.

And that's why you keep your buffs and hot's up 100% of the time, don't stand in red, and use situational awareness.

If you're dieing to 3 ticks and a 1 shot then you clearly have not reached MMO goodness yet.

more detailed reply on your incorrect assertion
I started at 80% HP
3 things ticked at once, probably taking me to well below 50% and then they used an execution. do you understand now?

let's put how bleeding works irl under a microscope

if you're about to be hemorrhaging blood from multiple wounds, your heart is probably around 180 bpm cuz so much is going wrong.

let's figure how often your hemorrhaging would tick in this scenario

3x per second

if you're in a state where of remote recovery I'm assuming the pulse would spike from there and you would start gasping for air, as your blood pressure drops hopefully the blood loss will slow to the point where it can clot

you would die no matter what if your heart was beating at 30 bpm and you sustained ANY wounds

you can't do combat at 30 bpm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgGBAnSftVs
you can't even make music at 30bpm.
the damage model is so saturated and blown of proportion the bleed ticks hit harder than a single wrecking blow

My awake and standing heart rate is 40 bpm. Lying down awake it's approximately 30 beats per minute. Sleeping I drop below 30.

Just saying beats per minute are highly variable depending on the individual's physical fitness.

Skander

The word of today is #Counterplay


Oh wait

There isn't