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Calling Elitists Out
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dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭MilwaukeeScott wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »[Ok but set E and F using skills Z and G does the same damage. This is also math
Could you please provide the sets and the math then?
Around here we need proof in our pudding because we've done tha math
In the meantime a great example outside of myself is to compare Alcast's StamDK to the one from Xynode Gaming on youtube (the infused stamdk advanced build). Completely different gear, CP, and skills are mostly differentEdited by dovakiin5574 on December 18, 2018 7:26PMPAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates0 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »
A simple video of any of your 50k DPS characters would do. Pick one, give a gear over view, and skill over view, and a few parses.
If you started this thread with this in the original post, I think the replies would be much different.
I don't think so. I have shown my combat metrics to people who still acted very rudelyPAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates0 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭dovakiin5574 wrote: »kathandira wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »
A simple video of any of your 50k DPS characters would do. Pick one, give a gear over view, and skill over view, and a few parses.
If you started this thread with this in the original post, I think the replies would be much different.
I don't think so. I have shown my combat metrics to people who still acted very rudely
I'd attribute that to them just being jerks.
One thing I'd like to point out about Alcast. He provides several examples of gear sets that will do well. It seems that some people only look at the first one, and roll with that, but he tends to give many examples and combinations that will perform well. I think people tend to skip that detail.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc0 -
Odovacar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My question isn't meant to call you out, but after reading through this thread I'm genuinely curious what your running & hitting 50k consistently with sub-optimal gear that's all.1 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »kathandira wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »
A simple video of any of your 50k DPS characters would do. Pick one, give a gear over view, and skill over view, and a few parses.
If you started this thread with this in the original post, I think the replies would be much different.
I don't think so. I have shown my combat metrics to people who still acted very rudely
I'd attribute that to them just being jerks.
One thing I'd like to point out about Alcast. He provides several examples of gear sets that will do well. It seems that some people only look at the first one, and roll with that, but he tends to give many examples and combinations that will perform well. I think people tend to skip that detail.
They do indeed which is where the "You must have Relequen + Yokeda and be a redguard only to even be considered a decent dps" and "You must have Spell Strat + Siroria and be a high/dark elf only to even be considered a decent dps" stuff comes fromPAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates0 -
ccmedaddy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Yeah Alcast goes out of his way to accommodate all kind of players (skilled, unskilled, low CP, max CP, etc) with his builds and people here still like to refer to him as some sort of an elitist monster. It's really dumb.kathandira wrote: »One thing I'd like to point out about Alcast. He provides several examples of gear sets that will do well. It seems that some people only look at the first one, and roll with that, but he tends to give many examples and combinations that will perform well. I think people tend to skip that detail.4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dovakiin5574 wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »
and you are being elitist about it. You do not see top players calling out other top players like this. Alcast certainly does not pat himself on the back either..
Actually I see "top" players that are great and cool/respectful such as Alcast and others, but I also see "top" players who are rude and overly elitist shouting useless rude comments in chat and on the forums.
Those that are top players, it is very rare they call out others in the forums because they got into a disagreement with someone as this thread seems to be. Top players generally let the results speak for themselves. They are also more likely to help someone else out than create a thread like this.
Tell that to the people in my DMs
Your dungeon masters? I assume raid leaders is what you mean and that would be a guild issue. A good raid leader does not care about your build, only results.
No people who I personally run with are good people. I also lead raids once a week.
Then the idea of this thread makes even less sense.dovakiin5574 wrote: »
ESO is all about numbers, I'm curious how you come to the conclusion that a lesser build will perform better in "some cases" because it doesn't work like that lol.dovakiin5574 wrote: »I'm sorry but your cookie cutter builds aren't impressive. So don't talk elitism to me when half of you have no idea "why" the cookie cutter builds work in the first place. Yes, non-meta builds can hit just as high numbers and in some cases higher, so quit quoting Alcast like he's the one true god of DPS and act like a respectable human being for once. Open minds are richer and have more fun!
~ Signed,
My dps is the same 50k as yours with non-meta
[Alcast has good builds, they are a great base to build on. However, they are not the end all one true build answers.]
A lesser build that does the same damage? I'm sorry I didn't know Relequen made you a tank also?
And we take another step back with this post.1 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭My question isn't meant to call you out, but after reading through this thread I'm genuinely curious what your running & hitting 50k consistently with sub-optimal gear that's all.
Some examples include Unfathomable + Defiler, Defiler + Hundings, Unfathomable + Hundings, Red Mountain + Hundings, a few different combos of those and even swerving into Swamp Raider and Vipers on some tests.PAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates0 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah Alcast goes out of his way to accommodate all kind of players (skilled, unskilled, low CP, max CP, etc) with his builds and people here still like to refer to him as some sort of an elitist monster. It's really dumb.kathandira wrote: »One thing I'd like to point out about Alcast. He provides several examples of gear sets that will do well. It seems that some people only look at the first one, and roll with that, but he tends to give many examples and combinations that will perform well. I think people tend to skip that detail.
I don't intend to call him that either. Its the rude people using his name to justify being rude that are the problemPAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates0 -
ccmedaddy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
.... literally every single set you listed here is mathematically inferior to the meta sets. Like, if you're doing 50k dps solo with these sets (which I doubt) you'll be doing a lot more than 50k with an alcast build.dovakiin5574 wrote: »My question isn't meant to call you out, but after reading through this thread I'm genuinely curious what your running & hitting 50k consistently with sub-optimal gear that's all.
Some examples include Unfathomable + Defiler, Defiler + Hundings, Unfathomable + Hundings, Red Mountain + Hundings, a few different combos of those and even swerving into Swamp Raider and Vipers on some tests.
What a dumb thread.7 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭dovakiin5574 wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »
and you are being elitist about it. You do not see top players calling out other top players like this. Alcast certainly does not pat himself on the back either..
Actually I see "top" players that are great and cool/respectful such as Alcast and others, but I also see "top" players who are rude and overly elitist shouting useless rude comments in chat and on the forums.
Those that are top players, it is very rare they call out others in the forums because they got into a disagreement with someone as this thread seems to be. Top players generally let the results speak for themselves. They are also more likely to help someone else out than create a thread like this.
Tell that to the people in my DMs
Your dungeon masters? I assume raid leaders is what you mean and that would be a guild issue. A good raid leader does not care about your build, only results.
No people who I personally run with are good people. I also lead raids once a week.
Then the idea of this thread makes even less sense.dovakiin5574 wrote: »
ESO is all about numbers, I'm curious how you come to the conclusion that a lesser build will perform better in "some cases" because it doesn't work like that lol.dovakiin5574 wrote: »I'm sorry but your cookie cutter builds aren't impressive. So don't talk elitism to me when half of you have no idea "why" the cookie cutter builds work in the first place. Yes, non-meta builds can hit just as high numbers and in some cases higher, so quit quoting Alcast like he's the one true god of DPS and act like a respectable human being for once. Open minds are richer and have more fun!
~ Signed,
My dps is the same 50k as yours with non-meta
[Alcast has good builds, they are a great base to build on. However, they are not the end all one true build answers.]
A lesser build that does the same damage? I'm sorry I didn't know Relequen made you a tank also?
And we take another step back with this post.
DMs and some comments, getting irritating. And as I've said before somewhere gear isn't a replacement for skill and general understanding of how not to die in trials.PAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates0 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yeah Alcast goes out of his way to accommodate all kind of players (skilled, unskilled, low CP, max CP, etc) with his builds and people here still like to refer to him as some sort of an elitist monster. It's really dumb.kathandira wrote: »One thing I'd like to point out about Alcast. He provides several examples of gear sets that will do well. It seems that some people only look at the first one, and roll with that, but he tends to give many examples and combinations that will perform well. I think people tend to skip that detail.
Indeed! I personally think he is a great resource, and quite considerate to different levels of players.
There is also the detail that when he is posting these Vet Trails builds, they are built with the mindset that the entire group will be going with builds that compliment each other. It assumes that all major and minor buffs will be provided to the whole group. If you run with players who aren't optimized in such a way, your numbers won't be as great as expected.
Adjustments need to be made at times to accommodate the fact that other's who are expected to provide certain buffs, might not be doing so since they aren't using such a build.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc1 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭
.... literally every single set you listed here is mathematically inferior to the meta sets. Like, if you're doing 50k dps solo with these sets (which I doubt) you'll be doing a lot more than 50k with an alcast build.dovakiin5574 wrote: »My question isn't meant to call you out, but after reading through this thread I'm genuinely curious what your running & hitting 50k consistently with sub-optimal gear that's all.
Some examples include Unfathomable + Defiler, Defiler + Hundings, Unfathomable + Hundings, Red Mountain + Hundings, a few different combos of those and even swerving into Swamp Raider and Vipers on some tests.
What a dumb thread.
What I didn't include was CP, skills, passives, monster set, or even Mundus. Those i'd have to actually look at my stuff to remember. But its only mathematically inferior if you are using the meta for cp, skills, etc. And yes, the "meta" might be capable of 60k territory but I don't think people's fingers move fast enough for that kind of intense rotationing.Edited by dovakiin5574 on December 18, 2018 7:41PMPAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dovakiin5574 wrote: »
The "elitism" comes from people expecting and demanding you get that result, and if you dont, proceed to throw words like noob and trash and uninstall. My Stamblade does a decent 32.6k parse self buffed. My Stamsorc, a meager 25k. I dont care much about getting the trial gear or changing my rotation to get those numbers higher, so i guess that makes me casual trash.CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dovakiin5574 wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »
and you are being elitist about it. You do not see top players calling out other top players like this. Alcast certainly does not pat himself on the back either..
Actually I see "top" players that are great and cool/respectful such as Alcast and others, but I also see "top" players who are rude and overly elitist shouting useless rude comments in chat and on the forums.
Those that are top players, it is very rare they call out others in the forums because they got into a disagreement with someone as this thread seems to be. Top players generally let the results speak for themselves. They are also more likely to help someone else out than create a thread like this.
Tell that to the people in my DMs
Your dungeon masters? I assume raid leaders is what you mean and that would be a guild issue. A good raid leader does not care about your build, only results.
No people who I personally run with are good people. I also lead raids once a week.
Then the idea of this thread makes even less sense.dovakiin5574 wrote: »
ESO is all about numbers, I'm curious how you come to the conclusion that a lesser build will perform better in "some cases" because it doesn't work like that lol.dovakiin5574 wrote: »I'm sorry but your cookie cutter builds aren't impressive. So don't talk elitism to me when half of you have no idea "why" the cookie cutter builds work in the first place. Yes, non-meta builds can hit just as high numbers and in some cases higher, so quit quoting Alcast like he's the one true god of DPS and act like a respectable human being for once. Open minds are richer and have more fun!
~ Signed,
My dps is the same 50k as yours with non-meta
[Alcast has good builds, they are a great base to build on. However, they are not the end all one true build answers.]
A lesser build that does the same damage? I'm sorry I didn't know Relequen made you a tank also?
And we take another step back with this post.
DMs and some comments, getting irritating. And as I've said before somewhere gear isn't a replacement for skill and general understanding of how not to die in trials.
I think any skilled player knows gear is secondary. However, they also know it all comes down to math so once a player has the skill gear begins to matter.
But that is not what I called you out about. The OP is purely elitsts. You are calling yourself out as a good player because you got your feelings hurt via some direct messages from people who probably do not really matter to you.dovakiin5574 wrote: »
ESO is all about numbers, I'm curious how you come to the conclusion that a lesser build will perform better in "some cases" because it doesn't work like that lol.dovakiin5574 wrote: »I'm sorry but your cookie cutter builds aren't impressive. So don't talk elitism to me when half of you have no idea "why" the cookie cutter builds work in the first place. Yes, non-meta builds can hit just as high numbers and in some cases higher, so quit quoting Alcast like he's the one true god of DPS and act like a respectable human being for once. Open minds are richer and have more fun!
~ Signed,
My dps is the same 50k as yours with non-meta
[Alcast has good builds, they are a great base to build on. However, they are not the end all one true build answers.]
A lesser build that does the same damage? I'm sorry I didn't know Relequen made you a tank also?
Then you follow it up with such odd comments like this. Certainly does not answer the question or deal with the solid point Nifty made that this game is about numbers. It is all about math.2 -
MilwaukeeScott✭✭✭✭✭dovakiin5574 wrote: »"You must have Relequen + Yokeda and be a redguard only to even be considered a decent dps" and "You must have Spell Strat + Siroria and be a high/dark elf only to even be considered a decent dps" stuff comes from
Not decent. But Best, Best In Slot.
There are many, many builds that will pull decent numbers. Good enough for all end game content, But mathematically best is just that, bis.
We maybe talking apples and oranges here.
But if you want the very best numbers mathematically possible, then yes "You must have Relequen + Yokeda and be a redguard only to even be considered a BEST dps" and "You must have Spell Strat + Siroria and be a high/dark elf"
I'm sorry but the math does not lie,
PS4NA
All I see is hate and rage from people who don't understand how to.....6 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭dovakiin5574 wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »
and you are being elitist about it. You do not see top players calling out other top players like this. Alcast certainly does not pat himself on the back either..
Actually I see "top" players that are great and cool/respectful such as Alcast and others, but I also see "top" players who are rude and overly elitist shouting useless rude comments in chat and on the forums.
Those that are top players, it is very rare they call out others in the forums because they got into a disagreement with someone as this thread seems to be. Top players generally let the results speak for themselves. They are also more likely to help someone else out than create a thread like this.
Tell that to the people in my DMs
Your dungeon masters? I assume raid leaders is what you mean and that would be a guild issue. A good raid leader does not care about your build, only results.
No people who I personally run with are good people. I also lead raids once a week.
Then the idea of this thread makes even less sense.dovakiin5574 wrote: »
ESO is all about numbers, I'm curious how you come to the conclusion that a lesser build will perform better in "some cases" because it doesn't work like that lol.dovakiin5574 wrote: »I'm sorry but your cookie cutter builds aren't impressive. So don't talk elitism to me when half of you have no idea "why" the cookie cutter builds work in the first place. Yes, non-meta builds can hit just as high numbers and in some cases higher, so quit quoting Alcast like he's the one true god of DPS and act like a respectable human being for once. Open minds are richer and have more fun!
~ Signed,
My dps is the same 50k as yours with non-meta
[Alcast has good builds, they are a great base to build on. However, they are not the end all one true build answers.]
A lesser build that does the same damage? I'm sorry I didn't know Relequen made you a tank also?
And we take another step back with this post.
DMs and some comments, getting irritating. And as I've said before somewhere gear isn't a replacement for skill and general understanding of how not to die in trials.
I think any skilled player knows gear is secondary. However, they also know it all comes down to math so once a player has the skill gear begins to matter.
But that is not what I called you out about. The OP is purely elitsts. You are calling yourself out as a good player because you got your feelings hurt via some direct messages from people who probably do not really matter to you.dovakiin5574 wrote: »
ESO is all about numbers, I'm curious how you come to the conclusion that a lesser build will perform better in "some cases" because it doesn't work like that lol.dovakiin5574 wrote: »I'm sorry but your cookie cutter builds aren't impressive. So don't talk elitism to me when half of you have no idea "why" the cookie cutter builds work in the first place. Yes, non-meta builds can hit just as high numbers and in some cases higher, so quit quoting Alcast like he's the one true god of DPS and act like a respectable human being for once. Open minds are richer and have more fun!
~ Signed,
My dps is the same 50k as yours with non-meta
[Alcast has good builds, they are a great base to build on. However, they are not the end all one true build answers.]
A lesser build that does the same damage? I'm sorry I didn't know Relequen made you a tank also?
Then you follow it up with such odd comments like this. Certainly does not answer the question or deal with the solid point Nifty made that this game is about numbers. It is all about math.
Again, go watch Xynode Gaming 's Infused StamDK build and compare it to Alcast. All the evidence I really need. Also StamDK isn't my forte, though I'm very close to meta numbers. But I can show you later my parsesPAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates0 -
lagrue✭✭✭✭✭
✭My only opinion on the matter; play what you feel is most comfortable. If people get on your case for not being meta, find likeminded folks to play with instead!
Both sides of the coin have merits.
Meta users - they want fastest and most efficient runs, can't blame them.
Non meta users - they want to use what they want and theorycraft, can't blame them.
Meta rage problems are mostly sorted out best by pairing up with people with the same prerogatives.PSN ID (NA only): Zuzu_With_a_Z
*GRAND MASTER CRAFTER*
"You must defeat me every time. I need defeat you only once"3 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭MilwaukeeScott wrote: »dovakiin5574 wrote: »"You must have Relequen + Yokeda and be a redguard only to even be considered a decent dps" and "You must have Spell Strat + Siroria and be a high/dark elf only to even be considered a decent dps" stuff comes from
Not decent. But Best, Best In Slot.
There are many, many builds that will pull decent numbers. Good enough for all end game content, But mathematically best is just that, bis.
We maybe talking apples and oranges here.
But if you want the very best numbers mathematically possible, then yes "You must have Relequen + Yokeda and be a redguard only to even be considered a BEST dps" and "You must have Spell Strat + Siroria and be a high/dark elf"
I'm sorry but the math does not lie,
So 50k doesn't equal 50k? That's some interesting math...PAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates0 -
dovakiin5574✭✭✭✭✭The PTS exists for a reason people. Put in the effort, you will find things that are literally the same (similar by maybe half a k in some instances) as "meta". Not many people want to spend countless hours on the PTS, but I enjoy it.PAPSMEAR - Positively Against Paws SMEAR campaign - Say YES to crown crates0
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MilwaukeeScott✭✭✭✭✭60K+ does not equal 50K, no sorry.
I'm really not trying to put you down or argue with you. I'm very sorry if I am coming across like that. It is not my intent.
But 50K is now the normal.
60K+ is top dps with murkmire.
I mean no offence. I only point you to the math.
You will need certain sets and skills to achieve 65K.
That's the highest I've personally seen as of today.PS4NA
All I see is hate and rage from people who don't understand how to.....5 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MilwaukeeScott wrote: »60K+ does not equal 50K, no sorry.
I'm really not trying to put you down or argue with you. I'm very sorry if I am coming across like that. It is not my intent.
But 50K is now the normal.
60K+ is top dps with murkmire.
I mean no offence. I only point you to the math.
You will need certain sets and skills to achieve 65K.
That's the highest I've personally seen as of today.
How is a 50k parse "normal"?CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!4 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭
25-17=8
ESO is all about numbers, I'm curious how you come to the conclusion that a lesser build will perform better in "some cases" because it doesn't work like that lol.dovakiin5574 wrote: »I'm sorry but your cookie cutter builds aren't impressive. So don't talk elitism to me when half of you have no idea "why" the cookie cutter builds work in the first place. Yes, non-meta builds can hit just as high numbers and in some cases higher, so quit quoting Alcast like he's the one true god of DPS and act like a respectable human being for once. Open minds are richer and have more fun!
~ Signed,
My dps is the same 50k as yours with non-meta
[Alcast has good builds, they are a great base to build on. However, they are not the end all one true build answers.]
Right?
3 -
MilwaukeeScott✭✭✭✭✭Most everyone I know and play with on ps4na pull 50k+.
This is my best below and I'm not very good.
PS4NA
All I see is hate and rage from people who don't understand how to.....1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I don't think you understood what I saiddovakiin5574 wrote: »
ESO is all about numbers, I'm curious how you come to the conclusion that a lesser build will perform better in "some cases" because it doesn't work like that lol.dovakiin5574 wrote: »I'm sorry but your cookie cutter builds aren't impressive. So don't talk elitism to me when half of you have no idea "why" the cookie cutter builds work in the first place. Yes, non-meta builds can hit just as high numbers and in some cases higher, so quit quoting Alcast like he's the one true god of DPS and act like a respectable human being for once. Open minds are richer and have more fun!
~ Signed,
My dps is the same 50k as yours with non-meta
[Alcast has good builds, they are a great base to build on. However, they are not the end all one true build answers.]
A lesser build that does the same damage? I'm sorry I didn't know Relequen made you a tank also?
But if you put the same player in say a min/max set up and then put him in a non min/max set up like you are saying in your OP
it doesn't work like that because the min/max set up will always perform better results for that person. So with that, I have to ask you, why wouldn't you run something that gives you better results, is it just because you don't want to and you want to prove a point, I genuinely want to understand why you would go out of your way to run something that would not give you as good results.Yes, non-meta builds can hit just as high numbers and in some cases higher
Those players who are using Alcasts builds, who knows what build they're using but I'll assume it will be one of the top tier ones etc, why would those people be in the wrong when the builds he is providing are the go to and proven to work most efficiently and optimally (I'm assuming the normal top tier ones).
Cause to be fair this just comes off as you are the one acting elitist here while other players are trying to get the best results with the best gear set ups.#MOREORBS2 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
✭TequilaFire wrote: »But I killed Molag Bal in my underwear! lmao
If it’s the main story how do I get rid of the yucky looking gold armor?0 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
✭Malamar1229 wrote: »OP on console. Calling it now. They all quote alcast over there. Its adorable
Never heard of him and I play on console. I make my own builds even though they’re not great.0
