How much DPS do you need to pull in order to be a REAL DPS?

ryanfan

So as many people have discussed, when queuing for vet dungeons, DLC dungeons and trials, having enough DPS can certainly help the group progress the content and make it a more enjoyable experience. No one likes to initiate a kick nor being kicked.

Many end game trial groups require combat metrics DPS parse before inviting you to the group so they know you are qualified.
Many YouTubers have created videos sharing their builds and DPS rotations to help people improve their skills and DPS.

But is hitting over 60k single target on parse really necessary for casual players who just want to try and complete the vet content?

For players who don't have end game trial gear, perfect rotation, nor BIS meta build, how much DPS does one need in order to be a REAL DPS for vet content (no hm), making the game enjoyable for oneself and as well as its teammates?

kathandira

ryanfan wrote: »

So as many people have discussed, when queuing for vet dungeons, DLC dungeons and trials, having enough DPS can certainly help the group progress the content and make it a more enjoyable experience. No one likes to initiate a kick nor being kicked.

Many end game trial groups require combat metrics DPS parse before inviting you to the group so they know you are qualified.
Many YouTubers have created videos sharing their builds and DPS rotations to help people improve their skills and DPS.

But is hitting over 60k single target on parse really necessary for casual players who just want to try and complete the vet content?

For players who don't have end game trial gear, perfect rotation, nor BIS meta build, how much DPS does one need in order to be a REAL DPS for vet content (no hm), making the game enjoyable for oneself and as well as its teammates?

From what I've gathered:

Vet Dungeons: 15k+
Vet DLC Dungeons: 20k+
Vet Trials: 30k+

These aren't set in stone though.

Dont_do_drugs

* to be able to call yourself dd (dps???), i'd assume around 10 - 15k dps (!) should be ok - its enough to contrast a healers or tanks incidental damage, lower casual
* most vet content should be doable with 20k dps, if ure playing clean mechanics - dungeons, 25k for vet trials, casual
* to be able to skip a bit or play dungeons and trials a bit smooth 30 - 35k dps for each dd, the better casual
* from 40 to 45k dps id consider a dd to be progress orientated, depends on class as well

something like this OO

DocFrost72

Lot to unpack here, and I only have my opinion. Mileage may vary.

End game trials groups are a special beast. They will have you parse, and they will have acceptable numbers for different content. Example, my guild requires 28.5k self buffed on a 3 mil for vet trials. The elite team requires 35k self buffed or higher, and they do things like vCR progression. Each guild is going to have their own rules, so you'll have to check with them.

60k is overkill period. There are group checks lower than that. The reason people push that so hard is because it allows you to skip otherwise mentally and performance straining mechanics. It's easier to pull high dps than live through lunar phase, ie. Now if you're talking progression vs bare bones completion vs score runs? They'll all have different rules. Completion runs for skins and titles typically only need the exact performance necessary to clear, though higher is appreciated. Score teams will take the best 8-9 dps that apply because it directly behooves them to do so.

As for "how much is enough", that varies wildly. 20k group dps will complete VFG 1, but you'll meet each player pulling no less than 28k on vMoL. Mechanics are often FAR more important than damage, but more damage always means less time, means less mistakes, means more success.

The more specific you phrase that last question, the better answer you'll get.

ezio45

25k vet crags
30k vet crag hm

35k vmol
38k vhof

50k vas, vcr hm

at least for my guild

Bouldercleave

ezio45 wrote: »

25k vet crags
30k vet crag hm

35k vmol
38k vhof

50k vas, vcr hm

at least for my guild

Your guild would *** hate me....

Odnoc

Well, I could solo vet non-dlc dungeons at 15k dps, does that make me real dps?

SirAndy

kathandira wrote: »

Vet Dungeons: 15k+
Vet DLC Dungeons: 20k+
Vet Trials: 30k+

That'll get you through pretty much anything in ESO, anything on top of that is just gravy ...

AlienatedGoat

Enough that the group can clear the content comfortably.

It varies, not just from content to content, but within content as well - from dungeon to dungeon, for example. Such as preferring more DPS on vCoA2 than I do on something like vFG2 (especially hardmode, as the final boss fight is a DPS check).

Putting arbitrary DPS numbers on content doesn't help people understand that DPS checks are varied in everything and each has its own requirement for a comfortable clear. It also isn't accurate, as group DPS matters much more than individual.

starkerealm

kathandira wrote: »

ryanfan wrote: »

So as many people have discussed, when queuing for vet dungeons, DLC dungeons and trials, having enough DPS can certainly help the group progress the content and make it a more enjoyable experience. No one likes to initiate a kick nor being kicked.

Many end game trial groups require combat metrics DPS parse before inviting you to the group so they know you are qualified.
Many YouTubers have created videos sharing their builds and DPS rotations to help people improve their skills and DPS.

But is hitting over 60k single target on parse really necessary for casual players who just want to try and complete the vet content?

For players who don't have end game trial gear, perfect rotation, nor BIS meta build, how much DPS does one need in order to be a REAL DPS for vet content (no hm), making the game enjoyable for oneself and as well as its teammates?

From what I've gathered:

Vet Dungeons: 15k+
Vet DLC Dungeons: 20k+
Vet Trials: 30k+

These aren't set in stone though.

To clear, it's lower than that.

Base Game Vet dungeons run under 10k for their DPS checks. (I forget, it's only like 6 or 7k for the hard checks.)

Most Vet DLC can be cleared at 15k

Vet base game trials check at around 12k.

Vet DLC trials check at around 20k (maybe 25k)

The problem is, most players want to bypass mechanics, or get out of specific phases quickly, which calls for higher DPS.

The more recent the content is, the higher the checks will be, except, a lot of fights don't depend on DPS checks at all. You can clear Thurvokun with three tanks if you wanted to, and you'd have a significantly easier time than if you were dealing with two 45k DPS who didn't understand the fight and wouldn't follow direction.

Understanding mechanics is way more important than raw DPS. This is also one place where you'll see a difference between endgame raid groups. Groups that prioritize players who can learn systems, and improve will do far better, long term, than ones that focus on just parse numbers. (And, before someone comes scampering in to defend their guild, yes, both of these kinds of groups do exist.)

AlienatedGoat

It should also be noted that there isn't a thing called "real DPS".

You can be a good DD, bad DD, average DD. You can't have fake DPS, therefore there is no real DPS.

Valrien

Bare minimum 30k, just because of how easy it is to get 30k DPS.

AlienatedGoat

Valrien wrote: »

Bare minimum 30k, just because of how easy it is to get 30k DPS.

If it was that easy, this thread wouldn't exist.

Neither would all the other DPS threads.

kathandira

starkerealm wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

ryanfan wrote: »

So as many people have discussed, when queuing for vet dungeons, DLC dungeons and trials, having enough DPS can certainly help the group progress the content and make it a more enjoyable experience. No one likes to initiate a kick nor being kicked.

Many end game trial groups require combat metrics DPS parse before inviting you to the group so they know you are qualified.
Many YouTubers have created videos sharing their builds and DPS rotations to help people improve their skills and DPS.

But is hitting over 60k single target on parse really necessary for casual players who just want to try and complete the vet content?

For players who don't have end game trial gear, perfect rotation, nor BIS meta build, how much DPS does one need in order to be a REAL DPS for vet content (no hm), making the game enjoyable for oneself and as well as its teammates?

From what I've gathered:

Vet Dungeons: 15k+
Vet DLC Dungeons: 20k+
Vet Trials: 30k+

These aren't set in stone though.

To clear, it's lower than that.

Base Game Vet dungeons run under 10k for their DPS checks. (I forget, it's only like 6 or 7k for the hard checks.)

Most Vet DLC can be cleared at 15k

Vet base game trials check at around 12k.

Vet DLC trials check at around 20k (maybe 25k)

The problem is, most players want to bypass mechanics, or get out of specific phases quickly, which calls for higher DPS.

The more recent the content is, the higher the checks will be, except, a lot of fights don't depend on DPS checks at all. You can clear Thurvokun with three tanks if you wanted to, and you'd have a significantly easier time than if you were dealing with two 45k DPS who didn't understand the fight and wouldn't follow direction.

Understanding mechanics is way more important than raw DPS. This is also one place where you'll see a difference between endgame raid groups. Groups that prioritize players who can learn systems, and improve will do far better, long term, than ones that focus on just parse numbers. (And, before someone comes scampering in to defend their guild, yes, both of these kinds of groups do exist.)

Totally, my examples are averages but not set in stone by any means. They are higher not so much as to ignore mechanics, but to keep an enjoyable pace.

Learning mechanics for the most part is more important, that I totally agree with. I was healing Blackrose Prison recently with a brand new Tank, and two DPS who aren't exactly Pros. One DPS was pretty low, the other wasn't really a strategist. You can see the merit in both plain as day as I watched them perform.

The better DPS wasn't great at situational awareness, and wasn't treating things as a priority as they should had been (Rezes for example). The lower DPS player on the other hand was like a damn ninja across the battlefield. On top of every mechanic as soon as it arose.

Combine both acceptable DPS, and a firm grasp of mechanics and priorities, and you can conquer the world (of ESO).

Oreyn_Bearclaw

ryanfan wrote: »

So as many people have discussed, when queuing for vet dungeons, DLC dungeons and trials, having enough DPS can certainly help the group progress the content and make it a more enjoyable experience. No one likes to initiate a kick nor being kicked.

Many end game trial groups require combat metrics DPS parse before inviting you to the group so they know you are qualified.
Many YouTubers have created videos sharing their builds and DPS rotations to help people improve their skills and DPS.

But is hitting over 60k single target on parse really necessary for casual players who just want to try and complete the vet content?

For players who don't have end game trial gear, perfect rotation, nor BIS meta build, how much DPS does one need in order to be a REAL DPS for vet content (no hm), making the game enjoyable for oneself and as well as its teammates?

This sort of thing is always a moving target. What was mindblowing DPS a year or two ago might not even qualify you for a good raid these days.

All 4man content, even hardmodes can be completed with group DPS of less than 50k (25k each), but that is assuming you are on top of every mechanic. In my experience, people that struggle to pull 25k DPS are typically not going to have the skill to follow every mechanic to the letter.

I think 30k is a reasonable target for non-meta chasing players that are willing to spend a reasonable amount of effort on their gear, and more importantly, their rotation. At CP 160 with purple crafted gear and gold weapons, a mageblade can hit that threshold if they are on point.

I think that if you are not capable of pulling 25k on a target dummy, you should stay out of the vet queue, but of course, vet content can be cleared with less.

Davor

Wow. I must really suck. Some times I might get 4000, but most times I get 2000. Oh well, still having fun. Just like in Morrowind I just have to skip the hard stuff until I am ready.

Valrien

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Bare minimum 30k, just because of how easy it is to get 30k DPS.

If it was that easy, this thread wouldn't exist.

Neither would all the other DPS threads.

No, it's pretty easy. Threads like these spawn because there are people not even willing to do the bare minimum

AlienatedGoat

kathandira wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

ryanfan wrote: »

So as many people have discussed, when queuing for vet dungeons, DLC dungeons and trials, having enough DPS can certainly help the group progress the content and make it a more enjoyable experience. No one likes to initiate a kick nor being kicked.

Many end game trial groups require combat metrics DPS parse before inviting you to the group so they know you are qualified.
Many YouTubers have created videos sharing their builds and DPS rotations to help people improve their skills and DPS.

But is hitting over 60k single target on parse really necessary for casual players who just want to try and complete the vet content?

For players who don't have end game trial gear, perfect rotation, nor BIS meta build, how much DPS does one need in order to be a REAL DPS for vet content (no hm), making the game enjoyable for oneself and as well as its teammates?

From what I've gathered:

Vet Dungeons: 15k+
Vet DLC Dungeons: 20k+
Vet Trials: 30k+

These aren't set in stone though.

To clear, it's lower than that.

Base Game Vet dungeons run under 10k for their DPS checks. (I forget, it's only like 6 or 7k for the hard checks.)

Most Vet DLC can be cleared at 15k

Vet base game trials check at around 12k.

Vet DLC trials check at around 20k (maybe 25k)

The problem is, most players want to bypass mechanics, or get out of specific phases quickly, which calls for higher DPS.

The more recent the content is, the higher the checks will be, except, a lot of fights don't depend on DPS checks at all. You can clear Thurvokun with three tanks if you wanted to, and you'd have a significantly easier time than if you were dealing with two 45k DPS who didn't understand the fight and wouldn't follow direction.

Understanding mechanics is way more important than raw DPS. This is also one place where you'll see a difference between endgame raid groups. Groups that prioritize players who can learn systems, and improve will do far better, long term, than ones that focus on just parse numbers. (And, before someone comes scampering in to defend their guild, yes, both of these kinds of groups do exist.)

Totally, my examples are averages but not set in stone by any means. They are higher not so much as to ignore mechanics, but to keep an enjoyable pace.

Learning mechanics for the most part is more important, that I totally agree with. I was healing Blackrose Prison recently with a brand new Tank, and two DPS who aren't exactly Pros. One DPS was pretty low, the other wasn't really a strategist. You can see the merit in both plain as day as I watched them perform.

The better DPS wasn't great at situational awareness, and wasn't treating things as a priority as they should had been (Rezes for example). The lower DPS player on the other hand was like a damn ninja across the battlefield. On top of every mechanic as soon as it arose.

Combine both acceptable DPS, and a firm grasp of mechanics and priorities, and you can conquer the world (of ESO).

Mech knowledge is indeed very important, just as much so as DPS. Mech knowledge and good DPS go hand-in-hand. You can know mechs backwards and forwards and react perfectly, but if your DPS is crap you're still hampering the raid.

Likewise you could have epic DPS and still flubber on mechs, getting downed and requiring ressing, again hampering the raid (worse in this case IMO, since not only are you doing zero DPS because you're dead, you now have someone else doing zero DPS to res your dumb self).

It's pretty common to see the latter, especially in open raids.

Tannus15

starkerealm wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

ryanfan wrote: »

So as many people have discussed, when queuing for vet dungeons, DLC dungeons and trials, having enough DPS can certainly help the group progress the content and make it a more enjoyable experience. No one likes to initiate a kick nor being kicked.

Many end game trial groups require combat metrics DPS parse before inviting you to the group so they know you are qualified.
Many YouTubers have created videos sharing their builds and DPS rotations to help people improve their skills and DPS.

But is hitting over 60k single target on parse really necessary for casual players who just want to try and complete the vet content?

For players who don't have end game trial gear, perfect rotation, nor BIS meta build, how much DPS does one need in order to be a REAL DPS for vet content (no hm), making the game enjoyable for oneself and as well as its teammates?

From what I've gathered:

Vet Dungeons: 15k+
Vet DLC Dungeons: 20k+
Vet Trials: 30k+

These aren't set in stone though.

To clear, it's lower than that.

Base Game Vet dungeons run under 10k for their DPS checks. (I forget, it's only like 6 or 7k for the hard checks.)

Most Vet DLC can be cleared at 15k

Vet base game trials check at around 12k.

Vet DLC trials check at around 20k (maybe 25k)

The problem is, most players want to bypass mechanics, or get out of specific phases quickly, which calls for higher DPS.

The more recent the content is, the higher the checks will be, except, a lot of fights don't depend on DPS checks at all. You can clear Thurvokun with three tanks if you wanted to, and you'd have a significantly easier time than if you were dealing with two 45k DPS who didn't understand the fight and wouldn't follow direction.

Understanding mechanics is way more important than raw DPS. This is also one place where you'll see a difference between endgame raid groups. Groups that prioritize players who can learn systems, and improve will do far better, long term, than ones that focus on just parse numbers. (And, before someone comes scampering in to defend their guild, yes, both of these kinds of groups do exist.)

There is no way you're clearing the twins in vMoL with 20k. You'll get overwhelmed by adds.
There is no way you're clearing the last boss in vHoF with 20k. You'll die in execute.

AlienatedGoat

Valrien wrote: »

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Bare minimum 30k, just because of how easy it is to get 30k DPS.

If it was that easy, this thread wouldn't exist.

Neither would all the other DPS threads.

No, it's pretty easy. Threads like these spawn because there are people not even willing to do the bare minimum

That's elitism.

There are plenty of people willing to do the work, but it takes time and patience to get to that point.

Just because there are some bad and willfully ignorant DPS out there doesn't mean they all are.

AlienatedGoat

Tannus15 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

ryanfan wrote: »

So as many people have discussed, when queuing for vet dungeons, DLC dungeons and trials, having enough DPS can certainly help the group progress the content and make it a more enjoyable experience. No one likes to initiate a kick nor being kicked.

Many end game trial groups require combat metrics DPS parse before inviting you to the group so they know you are qualified.
Many YouTubers have created videos sharing their builds and DPS rotations to help people improve their skills and DPS.

But is hitting over 60k single target on parse really necessary for casual players who just want to try and complete the vet content?

For players who don't have end game trial gear, perfect rotation, nor BIS meta build, how much DPS does one need in order to be a REAL DPS for vet content (no hm), making the game enjoyable for oneself and as well as its teammates?

From what I've gathered:

Vet Dungeons: 15k+
Vet DLC Dungeons: 20k+
Vet Trials: 30k+

These aren't set in stone though.

To clear, it's lower than that.

Base Game Vet dungeons run under 10k for their DPS checks. (I forget, it's only like 6 or 7k for the hard checks.)

Most Vet DLC can be cleared at 15k

Vet base game trials check at around 12k.

Vet DLC trials check at around 20k (maybe 25k)

The problem is, most players want to bypass mechanics, or get out of specific phases quickly, which calls for higher DPS.

The more recent the content is, the higher the checks will be, except, a lot of fights don't depend on DPS checks at all. You can clear Thurvokun with three tanks if you wanted to, and you'd have a significantly easier time than if you were dealing with two 45k DPS who didn't understand the fight and wouldn't follow direction.

Understanding mechanics is way more important than raw DPS. This is also one place where you'll see a difference between endgame raid groups. Groups that prioritize players who can learn systems, and improve will do far better, long term, than ones that focus on just parse numbers. (And, before someone comes scampering in to defend their guild, yes, both of these kinds of groups do exist.)

There is no way you're clearing the twins in vMoL with 20k. You'll get overwhelmed by adds.
There is no way you're clearing the last boss in vHoF with 20k. You'll die in execute.

I've had groups clear vMoL with less than 20k DPS average. Twins are more about tank competency than it is about DPS.

ryanfan

Valrien wrote: »

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Bare minimum 30k, just because of how easy it is to get 30k DPS.

If it was that easy, this thread wouldn't exist.

Neither would all the other DPS threads.

No, it's pretty easy. Threads like these spawn because there are people not even willing to do the bare minimum

This thread exist because people need that encouragement and confidence to try and keep trying the harder content, they need to know what they are capable of achieving giving their current DPS parse and the expected DPS if they want to try something new. People give up certain content and stop even trying again after being kicked or verbally bullied by so called "elite players" .

I know a girl who used to play this game in "easy mode", she likes to quest, decorate houses and design new outfits. One day she discovered a dye she desperately wants to use on her outfit and started trying vet dungeons. She read all the dungeon guide, mechanics but she still kept being kicked from the dungeon group due to lack of dps. She then watched videos on what build she should use and where to grind those gears etc, but she just couldn't excel the rotation. After being kicked couple more times, she no longer plays the game.

IMO, People spend time in game for joy and enjoyment, they deserve more encouragement, guidance and confidence.

heng14rwb17_ESO

NO 60K DEEPS NO TALK

Aebaradath

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

NO 60K DEEPS NO TALK

lolno shut up.

Glurin

1

Not 1k or 100k or 1m, just 1.

That's all you need to qualify as a "real" DPS.

Pretty darn bad DPS and people would be right to kick you out of the group for it, but DPS nonetheless. There is no such thing as a "Fake DPS". Not unless they are pure healers queuing up as DPS because they hate short lines or something else insane like that.

Glurin

Davor wrote: »

Wow. I must really suck. Some times I might get 4000, but most times I get 2000. Oh well, still having fun. Just like in Morrowind I just have to skip the hard stuff until I am ready.

You know, I think I accidentally bumped into a target dummy once and got 4k.

ZeroXFF

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

ryanfan wrote: »

So as many people have discussed, when queuing for vet dungeons, DLC dungeons and trials, having enough DPS can certainly help the group progress the content and make it a more enjoyable experience. No one likes to initiate a kick nor being kicked.

Many end game trial groups require combat metrics DPS parse before inviting you to the group so they know you are qualified.
Many YouTubers have created videos sharing their builds and DPS rotations to help people improve their skills and DPS.

But is hitting over 60k single target on parse really necessary for casual players who just want to try and complete the vet content?

For players who don't have end game trial gear, perfect rotation, nor BIS meta build, how much DPS does one need in order to be a REAL DPS for vet content (no hm), making the game enjoyable for oneself and as well as its teammates?

From what I've gathered:

Vet Dungeons: 15k+
Vet DLC Dungeons: 20k+
Vet Trials: 30k+

These aren't set in stone though.

To clear, it's lower than that.

Base Game Vet dungeons run under 10k for their DPS checks. (I forget, it's only like 6 or 7k for the hard checks.)

Most Vet DLC can be cleared at 15k

Vet base game trials check at around 12k.

Vet DLC trials check at around 20k (maybe 25k)

The problem is, most players want to bypass mechanics, or get out of specific phases quickly, which calls for higher DPS.

The more recent the content is, the higher the checks will be, except, a lot of fights don't depend on DPS checks at all. You can clear Thurvokun with three tanks if you wanted to, and you'd have a significantly easier time than if you were dealing with two 45k DPS who didn't understand the fight and wouldn't follow direction.

Understanding mechanics is way more important than raw DPS. This is also one place where you'll see a difference between endgame raid groups. Groups that prioritize players who can learn systems, and improve will do far better, long term, than ones that focus on just parse numbers. (And, before someone comes scampering in to defend their guild, yes, both of these kinds of groups do exist.)

There is no way you're clearing the twins in vMoL with 20k. You'll get overwhelmed by adds.
There is no way you're clearing the last boss in vHoF with 20k. You'll die in execute.

I've had groups clear vMoL with less than 20k DPS average. Twins are more about tank competency than it is about DPS.

20k DPS in the actual fight is very different from the same person trying it on a dummy. There is plenty of down time when you have to switch targets to focus adds or when the bosses jump and you have to run to the other side. I don't know if 20k average DPS in the actual fight will be sufficient (only done it as tank, and wasn't paying attention to the DPS), but there is no way you'll get it if that's all you can do on a dummy. To qualify for vMoL you should do at least 30k on a dummy.

Also, tank coordination flies out of the window when most of the raid is pinned down by 8 white adds (which you will have, because 20k DPS/DD is not enough to kill a wave of 2x4 or execute boss before there is a 2nd set).

dovakiin5574

20 minimum. 30k ideal. Anything over that is for hard core players. Anything over 40k is for elitist snobs. Just imo, and I've been playing for over 2 years, 1 year running in vet trials and such

AndyMac

30k self buffed on a 6million dummy in my progression guild. That’s for DLC trials.

A real DPS should know the fights - even if you just watched some vids on You Tube and not die too - imo- just saying

temjiu

kathandira wrote: »

From what I've gathered:

Vet Dungeons: 15k+
Vet DLC Dungeons: 20k+
Vet Trials: 30k+

These aren't set in stone though.

+1. Many have mentioned that different guilds have different requirements, So it will be dependent on guild. But for the most part these numbers are perfect baselines.

Valrien

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Bare minimum 30k, just because of how easy it is to get 30k DPS.

If it was that easy, this thread wouldn't exist.

Neither would all the other DPS threads.

No, it's pretty easy. Threads like these spawn because there are people not even willing to do the bare minimum

That's elitism.

There are plenty of people willing to do the work, but it takes time and patience to get to that point.

Just because there are some bad and willfully ignorant DPS out there doesn't mean they all are.

Bro 30k can be achieved just with the right gear + dots + light attacks.

The bare minimum is light attack spam but smarter