How much DPS do you need to pull in order to be a REAL DPS?

Colecovision

carlos424 wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

In a group with buffs and debuffs:

35k~40k on very static fights with minimum movements
20k~35k on dynamic fights

Dummy parses have no value. The dummy is only there for you to practice a somewhat basic rotation.

If all you have is a "somewhat basic rotation" then you are not going to be in the 35-40k range on anything. Dummy parses have some value. They show what you can do in a controlled environment. If you can't hit 35-40k on a dummy you won't be able to do it in a real fight. Sure people can cheese dummy parses, and that is evident as soon as you run with them one time. But if you're true to yourself and your team, you put on the gear you run with and use the dummy to get your rotation down to muscle memory.

I don't understand this. The highest I've ever done was when I broke down and puged a trial for the Halloween achievement. Single target was 38k on one boss and I had an unnecessary heal slotted. Would have been 40 for sure with rearming trap instead of vigor. But the same skills and buttons from my side only get me 31k on the 3m dummy.

Why does everyone say that a target dummy has ideal conditions? Group buffs are ideal.

vrine

Colecovision wrote: »

carlos424 wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

In a group with buffs and debuffs:

35k~40k on very static fights with minimum movements
20k~35k on dynamic fights

Dummy parses have no value. The dummy is only there for you to practice a somewhat basic rotation.

If all you have is a "somewhat basic rotation" then you are not going to be in the 35-40k range on anything. Dummy parses have some value. They show what you can do in a controlled environment. If you can't hit 35-40k on a dummy you won't be able to do it in a real fight. Sure people can cheese dummy parses, and that is evident as soon as you run with them one time. But if you're true to yourself and your team, you put on the gear you run with and use the dummy to get your rotation down to muscle memory.

I don't understand this. The highest I've ever done was when I broke down and puged a trial for the Halloween achievement. Single target was 38k on one boss and I had an unnecessary heal slotted. Would have been 40 for sure with rearming trap instead of vigor. But the same skills and buttons from my side only get me 31k on the 3m dummy.

Why does everyone say that a target dummy has ideal conditions? Group buffs are ideal.

Because not all the group buffs will be the same for every trial. A dummy is like a sterile, bare-bones example of what you can do. Not ideal in terms of what you can pull, but it shows what your potential is pre-buff, and that's important.

Haquor

Really depends on the content.

For example Vet non dlc dungeons you can do with 1 dps. Non dlc normal trials i have cleared while doing 45k and 33% of total group dps. So you do the math on the remaining 8 dps....

However.... to be called a real dps to me is someone who actually bothers to learn thier class, applies a sound rotation of skills and wears appropriate gear with the intent of contributing to the groups goals in a meaninful way.

I got called out for being an elitist the other day in a base game vet dungeon for asking the other dps why he was doing nothing but bow light attacks from range while his kragh was firing at thr empty space to his front and firing one bird every 5 or so light attacks. That to me is not a group goal orientated player or a 'real' dps.

FrancisCrawford

Aurayna wrote: »

My best character is Level 50 CP 435 BUT I have no idea where to find out how much DPS she has.

So my questions is this where can I find this info ?

I did put an addon hoping to tell me, but the writing was so tiny I couldn't even read it !

Something like AlcastHQ has on his screen would be good, when he runs a dungeon !

OR can you find the info without an addon ?

Have you used Combat Metrics? Set up a keybind to call up the information after a fight and it's there. The print isn't the biggest, but you can read it at your leisure (as long as you don't log out first), including at such times as you can bend over closer to the screen or whatever you need to do to see it comfortably.

LeagueTroll

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

ryanfan wrote: »

So as many people have discussed, when queuing for vet dungeons, DLC dungeons and trials, having enough DPS can certainly help the group progress the content and make it a more enjoyable experience. No one likes to initiate a kick nor being kicked.

Many end game trial groups require combat metrics DPS parse before inviting you to the group so they know you are qualified.
Many YouTubers have created videos sharing their builds and DPS rotations to help people improve their skills and DPS.

But is hitting over 60k single target on parse really necessary for casual players who just want to try and complete the vet content?

For players who don't have end game trial gear, perfect rotation, nor BIS meta build, how much DPS does one need in order to be a REAL DPS for vet content (no hm), making the game enjoyable for oneself and as well as its teammates?

From what I've gathered:

Vet Dungeons: 15k+
Vet DLC Dungeons: 20k+
Vet Trials: 30k+

These aren't set in stone though.

To clear, it's lower than that.

Base Game Vet dungeons run under 10k for their DPS checks. (I forget, it's only like 6 or 7k for the hard checks.)

Most Vet DLC can be cleared at 15k

Vet base game trials check at around 12k.

Vet DLC trials check at around 20k (maybe 25k)

The problem is, most players want to bypass mechanics, or get out of specific phases quickly, which calls for higher DPS.

The more recent the content is, the higher the checks will be, except, a lot of fights don't depend on DPS checks at all. You can clear Thurvokun with three tanks if you wanted to, and you'd have a significantly easier time than if you were dealing with two 45k DPS who didn't understand the fight and wouldn't follow direction.

Understanding mechanics is way more important than raw DPS. This is also one place where you'll see a difference between endgame raid groups. Groups that prioritize players who can learn systems, and improve will do far better, long term, than ones that focus on just parse numbers. (And, before someone comes scampering in to defend their guild, yes, both of these kinds of groups do exist.)

There is no way you're clearing the twins in vMoL with 20k. You'll get overwhelmed by adds.
There is no way you're clearing the last boss in vHoF with 20k. You'll die in execute.

I've had groups clear vMoL with less than 20k DPS average. Twins are more about tank competency than it is about DPS.

Tank with that level of skills find way better group easily. I am sure you can get a top 5% tank to sit with bunch below average dps.

thegreat_one

AS long as I out Dps Some of the other dps I don't have to worry about it

zvavi

Install combat metrics. Go dungeoning. If you have less than 30% of the dmg, u need to practice. If the healer is off healer and helping dmg then 25% is the minimum imo. If the healer is fake then at least 20%.

Karmanorway

I think its atleast 30k, althoug i play mostly tank its easier no respecs needed, full medium impen all u need is a shield If u dont get kicked out at the beginning for "having to low hp" xD

LadyNalcarya

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

ryanfan wrote: »

So as many people have discussed, when queuing for vet dungeons, DLC dungeons and trials, having enough DPS can certainly help the group progress the content and make it a more enjoyable experience. No one likes to initiate a kick nor being kicked.

Many end game trial groups require combat metrics DPS parse before inviting you to the group so they know you are qualified.
Many YouTubers have created videos sharing their builds and DPS rotations to help people improve their skills and DPS.

But is hitting over 60k single target on parse really necessary for casual players who just want to try and complete the vet content?

For players who don't have end game trial gear, perfect rotation, nor BIS meta build, how much DPS does one need in order to be a REAL DPS for vet content (no hm), making the game enjoyable for oneself and as well as its teammates?

From what I've gathered:

Vet Dungeons: 15k+
Vet DLC Dungeons: 20k+
Vet Trials: 30k+

These aren't set in stone though.

To clear, it's lower than that.

Base Game Vet dungeons run under 10k for their DPS checks. (I forget, it's only like 6 or 7k for the hard checks.)

Most Vet DLC can be cleared at 15k

Vet base game trials check at around 12k.

Vet DLC trials check at around 20k (maybe 25k)

The problem is, most players want to bypass mechanics, or get out of specific phases quickly, which calls for higher DPS.

The more recent the content is, the higher the checks will be, except, a lot of fights don't depend on DPS checks at all. You can clear Thurvokun with three tanks if you wanted to, and you'd have a significantly easier time than if you were dealing with two 45k DPS who didn't understand the fight and wouldn't follow direction.

Understanding mechanics is way more important than raw DPS. This is also one place where you'll see a difference between endgame raid groups. Groups that prioritize players who can learn systems, and improve will do far better, long term, than ones that focus on just parse numbers. (And, before someone comes scampering in to defend their guild, yes, both of these kinds of groups do exist.)

There is no way you're clearing the twins in vMoL with 20k. You'll get overwhelmed by adds.
There is no way you're clearing the last boss in vHoF with 20k. You'll die in execute.

I've had groups clear vMoL with less than 20k DPS average. Twins are more about tank competency than it is about DPS.

I would like evidence for that claim, if you did do it or not, and to see how exactly it was done, because if you got it after the 150 wipe, than that's not really better than just not doing it at all, it's a waste of time, and you would just be better off in a group with more dps.

This is a typical response i see, all claim that they have done this and that with pretty low to ludicrously low dps, and use it as an argument that dps is not important, but where is the evidence? So we may judge? Because i too did some groups with low dps back when i was not as good, but it definitely was not very fun.

But i'm just elitist am i right?

20k sounds a bit low, but I think it would be doable. We were the 4th or 5th VMOL HM clear on PC/NA, we werent doing much more than 25k or so on average at the time. I think we did 5 backrooms plus lunar in our first HM clear. Our first vet clear (non HM) was like 2 patches before that, and we were definitively pulling less. Of course that was a different time, but the mechanics really havent changed.

It's a bit of a catch 22 if done recently. People that can follow mechanics that well are pulling way more DPS than they were more than 2 years ago. In other words, I think 20k average by today's standards is unlikely, but certainly not impossible.

A lot of this content was cleared with dps totals much lower than we have now. So no, you do not need to have the totals we can pull now to do that old content. It is nice but it is not mandatory.

But the people hitting those numbers back then are the same very coordinated and knowledgeable people that are hitting the big totals now. A group would have to very dedicated, willing to learn, etc to clear with those lower numbers. And if they were all those things they probably wouldn't have such low dps compared to what is available now.

It is what it is.

Pretty much this. It's probably still possible to clear vMoL with 20-25k dps, but there's another problem. Runs like this tend to take a very long time, I've heard of 6 and even 10 hour runs, which is not ideal because most people don't have that much free time. Most of us have families and real life obligations and cannot spend hours on a dungeon.

Grandchamp1989

I've always been told 20k single target dps is the entry level for base veteran content if you don't want to be a burden on your team and drag it out.

This increases significant if you want to do DLC vet

and increase further if if you want to do DLC vet HM

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

dummy parse is not much of use, it can help you get your rotation down, but in a real setting it does not help as most of the time you not standing still, try going more of an aoe build, you should pull in 40-50k with out la/ha in a dungeon/trial setting, try to have as much aoe damage as poss and have 2 cheap spamables

sekou_trayvond

8. 8 seems about right.

LadyNalcarya

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

dummy parse is not much of use, it can help you get your rotation down, but in a real setting it does not help as most of the time you not standing still, try going more of an aoe build, you should pull in 40-50k with out la/ha in a dungeon/trial setting, try to have as much aoe damage as poss and have 2 cheap spamables

It does help, to be able to dps while moving you need muscle memory (so that you can focus on mechanics and not on rotation) and dummy is very useful for that. And people who have low dps on a dummy would have even lower dps in an actual raid. They can also post their parses on their guild discords and whatnot to ask for advice on how to improve.
P.S. Why 2 spammables?

ZOS_ConnorG

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