Random Dungeon: Is tp to another dungeon (eg: Fungal Grotto) an exploit/cheat?

Kova

No one is obligated to do a dungeon they dont want to do. No amount of posturing or formalities will change that.

The players that have a problem with this dont actually care if it's an exploit.

Case in point, if I queue randomly and quit groups until I get fungal grotto 1, then there is absolutely no way you can say I'm exploiting, and yet the ones posting these threads would say what I'm doing is still unacceptable and rude.

Using a rule to perpetuate a personal affliction morality is just bad form, imo.

StormChaser3000

This is not cheating, at least definitely not bannable since you can still fight RNG by:

1) grouping with low lvl players
2) disbanding the group, regrouping with them and requeueing till you get easier dungeon

Teleportation simply saves a lot of time.
What people are supposed to do if they have 8-15 alts and keep getting CoA2, Volenfell or dlc dungeons? Why should they be punished for having high level characters? I absolutely understand them.

John_Falstaff

@Kova , I don't think that anyone in this thread says that quitting if you didn't land in the dungeon you had in mind is an exploit. (Granted, it may be rude towards the group, but I tend to be calm about it, people sometimes queue for normal instead of vet, or can't stand the dungeon so much they just quit, or just have guest at their door and must run. Happens.) What people are saying is that kicking people that honestly want to run the random they landed in (instead of yielding to being coerced into FG1) is unacceptable.

VaranisArano

Kova wrote: »

No one is obligated to do a dungeon they dont want to do. No amount of posturing or formalities will change that.

The players that have a problem with this dont actually care if it's an exploit.

Case in point, if I queue randomly and quit groups until I get fungal grotto 1, then there is absolutely no way you can say I'm exploiting, and yet the ones posting these threads would say what I'm doing is still unacceptable and rude.

Using a rule to perpetuate a personal affliction morality is just bad form, imo.

Quitting groups from a hard dungeon and taking the 15 minute queue penalty is intended behavior for Groupfinder.

That's why there's a 15 minute queue penalty - to discourage folks from doing that.

Kova

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Kova , I don't think that anyone in this thread says that quitting if you didn't land in the dungeon you had in mind is an exploit. (Granted, it may be rude towards the group, but I tend to be calm about it, people sometimes queue for normal instead of vet, or can't stand the dungeon so much they just quit, or just have guest at their door and must run. Happens.) What people are saying is that kicking people that honestly want to run the random they landed in (instead of yielding to being coerced into FG1) is unacceptable.

That's my exact point, most dont actually cares that it's an exploit. My argument was that quitting and queueing again isn't an exploit but it invokes the same contempt and the same process a group has to feel through in order to get what they want.

John_Falstaff

@StormChaser3000 , did rules of the event promise those people fifteen boxes a day simply for having fifteen alts? Um... can't remember such thing; the promise was fifteen boxes for clearing fifteen random dungeons. ^^ No randomness involved - they didn't earn those boxes to begin with.

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

YamiKuruku wrote: »

Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »

YamiKuruku wrote: »

yep. not working as intended

Half of the game is not working as intended because of poor coding.

doesn't justify to use exploits tho even if the game is broken xD

Is it an exploit though? When everyone has a gun given to them by the game why would I fight with a dagger and my eyes closed?

Kidgangster101

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

ITS an exploit and everyone abusing it should be banned

ITS RANDOM Dungeon Not fungal 1

People are abusing this so hard because zos won't fix the broken instance and people are running the event on multiple toons. It can take an hour just to get into the dungeon sometimes just of spamming ready ready ready your group failed to ready jump back into que. So before you talk about banning people there are a lot of factors that go into why fg1 works lol.

And queing as a tank or healer when your a DPS is no different? They should be banned? So instead of us beating instances we are held back because the spa "doesn't want to wait long times to que". This works when your high level steam rolling content. It doesn't work so much when your all level 30 and you fail the instance but it happens pretty regularly too just saying.

Emma_Overload

Until ZOS speaks on this issue, nobody knows if it's an exploit or not.

sudaki_eso

If it would be an exploit or considered cheating ZOS would have fixed it in the last 12 month, you could do the same thing last year...

I have very bad luck when it comes to random dungeons, i usually get wgt, icp or mhk, so far i got only two non dlc dungeons when queueing. So yeah i am always happy if the group decides to do a quick fg1 run instead of a dlc dungeons.

xRIVALENx

Only encountered one instance of a group member wanting to jump to FG1 and they were polite enough to ask the group if everyone wanted to do so. We ended up staying with the dungeon provided. We queued Vet Fang Lair, specific queue for myself, we cruised through that place rather quick.

Perhaps this dungeon teleporting problem occurs more often in the normal queue, hardly an issue in Vet.

StormChaser3000

@John_Falstaff Do you have a problem with that some people get 15 boxes a day instead of 1? I don"t have so many alts, but I don't care what someone else gets. It's still a lot of work to prepare all those alts and then put them all through the dungeon runs. If there is more optimal way, why not to use it? And as I said you can still avoid RNG using different methods. This one is just the fastest.
Also blame ZOS for bad coding, not players.

John_Falstaff

@sudaki_eso , mm-m. If lags in Cyrodiil weren't intended behavior, ZOS would've fixed them in the last 12 months... ^^ Must be working as intended. ^^

That said, if whole group decided to use it - well, that's on them, at least nobody is being mistreated. Same applies to running FG1 with guildmates - everyone knows what they're doing, everyone agrees to carry the possible responsibility.

Defilted

I have not seen this once happen on XBOXNA and I have been in DLC dungeons in the event. You only have to do normal. Not one of these dungeons are hard in normal.

Agenericname

Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »

YamiKuruku wrote: »

Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »

YamiKuruku wrote: »

yep. not working as intended

Half of the game is not working as intended because of poor coding.

doesn't justify to use exploits tho even if the game is broken xD

Is it an exploit though? When everyone has a gun given to them by the game why would I fight with a dagger and my eyes closed?

Was the gun intentional? If it was intentional, then no, you're utilizing it as intended. If it was not intentional or an oversight, then you would be exploiting a broken mechanism.

But again, it's not up to me, it will be ZOS that decides. I can only control what I do. If they decide it's an exploit it will be fixed, or an attempt made. I dont see anyone getting banned over it.

VaranisArano

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

John_Falstaff Do you have a problem that some people get 15 boxes a day instead of 1? I don"t have so many alts, but I don't care what someone else gets. It's still a lot of work to prepare all those alts and then put them all through the dungeon runs. If there is more optimal way, why not to use it? And as I said you can still avoid RNG using different methods. This one is just the fastest.
Also blame ZOS for bad coding, not players.

Last year, I got 8 boxes on 8 dungeon capable characters - and didn't need an exploit to do it.

I ran what I got. White Gold Tower included.

That's what pretty much everyone did.

Why did we get lazier in the span of a year?

John_Falstaff

@StormChaser3000 , if those people do that at expense of other people's experience? Yes, I very much do have a problem with that. If they grab guildies and do FG1 speedruns in premade teams? Totally on them, not anyone else's business but theirs and ZOS, they know they're gaming the system, they're adult consenting people.

StormChaser3000

VaranisArano wrote: »

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

John_Falstaff Do you have a problem that some people get 15 boxes a day instead of 1? I don"t have so many alts, but I don't care what someone else gets. It's still a lot of work to prepare all those alts and then put them all through the dungeon runs. If there is more optimal way, why not to use it? And as I said you can still avoid RNG using different methods. This one is just the fastest.
Also blame ZOS for bad coding, not players.

Last year, I got 8 boxes on 8 dungeon capable characters - and didn't need an exploit to do it.

I ran what I got. White Gold Tower included.

That's what pretty much everyone did.

Why did we get lazier in the span of a year?

No, we are just more bored with dungeons that we ran many times and don't want to get stuck for an hour with weak group in each of them. Those who are not bored are free to run whatever they want. Those who are bored have a right to search for easier path.

@John_Falstaff
I can say the same thing vice versa. Why are you forcing them to run CoA2 for example? Those who want randomness also can create a group where all 4 players want RNG.
I bumped into 3 groups so far who suggested porting. There were no objections in 2. In the third one it was 50/50. None was pressed to stay but we decided that we want to grab a skill point from the quest in CoH2 for our alts and ran through it.

Kanar

The way I see it, the people who still insist on doing the dlc dungeon are the inconsiderate ones. There is an event ongoing so the normal motivations for doing random are changed.

If you are using this event to finally get your Moonhunter Keep clear from 3 other random people who just want to finish the dungeon fast, then you're a selfish ***. Just do the fast dungeon.

Feel_Fried

Yes it's exploit, and you, by this post, violate ToS and should get ban with all who use it

John_Falstaff

@Kanar , who's being selfish? Those three people - they chose random dungeon. They got MHK. Now they want to cheat, that means they lied about wanting a random. They want a box they did not earn (literally, by the letter of the event rules). It doesn't matter what they want now, if they decide they don't want MHK - they can quit, nobody prevents them. The only honest person among that group would be the one who picked MHK and wants to run it.

Dragonnord

You don't care about people paying for trials skins, vMA runs, getting Emperor in Cyro, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. (no one banned for those) but you care for people porting to Fungal 1? LOL!!!
 

Kanar

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Kanar , who's being selfish? Those three people - they chose random dungeon. They got MHK. Now they want to cheat, that means they lied about wanting a random. They want a box they did not earn (literally, by the letter of the event rules). It doesn't matter what they want now, if they decide they don't want MHK - they can quit, nobody prevents them. The only honest person among that group would be the one who picked MHK and wants to run it.

Lul no the one who refuses to change dungeons is a selfish little prick who needs to get over himself and his high horse. He deserves to be kicked. Dungeon finder is not a moral issue.

HidesFromSun

Honestly. I don't think it's that big of a deal. Some people are only running the dungeons for the reward boxes, and don't actually care about the experience. The quicker the better, so they can get back to whatever it is they enjoy.

Not to mention how some people might not have the time or patience to run through a DLC dungeon with low level characters, which i'd imagine there are more of atm due to people running their mules through dungeons too

VaranisArano

Kanar wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Kanar , who's being selfish? Those three people - they chose random dungeon. They got MHK. Now they want to cheat, that means they lied about wanting a random. They want a box they did not earn (literally, by the letter of the event rules). It doesn't matter what they want now, if they decide they don't want MHK - they can quit, nobody prevents them. The only honest person among that group would be the one who picked MHK and wants to run it.

Lul no the one who refuses to change dungeons is a selfish little prick who needs to get over himself and his high horse. He deserves to be kicked. Dungeon finder is not a moral issue.

Moral or not, its pretty clear.

You don't want a Daily Random Dungeon.

You want a Daily Guaranteed Quick 'N Easy Dungeon and all the rewards with none of the risk.

SpacemanSpiff1

Kanar wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Kanar , who's being selfish? Those three people - they chose random dungeon. They got MHK. Now they want to cheat, that means they lied about wanting a random. They want a box they did not earn (literally, by the letter of the event rules). It doesn't matter what they want now, if they decide they don't want MHK - they can quit, nobody prevents them. The only honest person among that group would be the one who picked MHK and wants to run it.

Lul no the one who refuses to change dungeons is a selfish little prick who needs to get over himself and his high horse. He deserves to be kicked. Dungeon finder is not a moral issue.

It's ridiculous that people doing the dungeon assigned to their group is taboo now. It's perfectly okay to just bail on your group to do a different dungeon, but if you stay and do the one you got you're the ***.

Arciris

Only ZOS knows what an exploit is, or is not.

Look at Animation Cancelling: to any new player it looks/feels like an exploit, but it's not an exploit by ZOS standards

Until we hear from ZOS that it is an exploit or not, it is not an exploit.

But being rude will always be being rude, and that is something people need to avoid, on either side of this debate.

StormChaser3000

Dragonnord wrote: »

You don't care about people paying for trials skins, vMA runs, getting Emperor in Cyro, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. (no one banned for those) but you care for people porting to Fungal 1? LOL!!!
 

They will never admit, but I think they feel too lazy to work on alts and then get salty when someone gets more boxes than them in a smarter way. All complaints about "wanting randomness" and "suffering from quick runners" sound quite made up to me. They have 355 other days in the year to run those randoms.

Riverlynn

If the group votes for Fungal, then I go with the group. If they decide to do the one we're given, then that's great as well.

I'd prefer to do whatever dungeon the game throws at me, but not to the point of quitting the group, having a leaver penalty slapped on me and then using the dodgy group finding tool again.

Yes, I think it's an exploit, but I can't bring myself to get upset about it.

I have a far worse experience (as a low level player) when I join three 810's who power rush a higher level dungeon I have never seen before, leaving me to struggle to keep up, with little or no idea of what's going on.

John_Falstaff

@StormChaser3000 , why I'm forcing them to run CoA2? Simplest question: of course because they wanted that. They picked "random" and pressed button, signing up. They got CoA2 as their random, the dungeon they just declared they want and promise to run. They wanted randomness, they got it, and if they suddenly have change of heart - doesn't entitle them to anything. They can fulfill their obligation or bail, nobody holds them.