Dear magsorcs...

Metemsycosis

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Does anyone even play melee Magblade anymore? I haven't seen one in...I don't even know how long.

I do and I love it. Gotta run that HA tho.

arkansas_ESO

Neloth wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Uh can I get your magblade build?

Neloth wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Jakx wrote: »

Every buff post ever.

Hi, I'm X class. We suk. Please take away all weaknesses from my class. Please don't allow counterplay. No I don't recognize that my class is actually strong.

Care to explain to me what about sorc is particularly strong in the current patch - outside of running away (but nb is better at that too if we ignore shade bug).

Nightblades can only “run away” to places they’ve already been. This means that in a BG or openworld, when fighting outnumbered, their escape mechanic isn’t terribly strong because they’ll just go back into the middle of a fight. It’s only strong when fighting 1 or 2 people, or if the stamblade has allies around to kite behind.

Sorc is now the most mobile class in the game.

Actually I think that magNB has much better chances of escaping an angry small scale group compared to magsorc and reseting a fight. If they sit on you - just fear, shade and cloak. If they all stay on shade - just cloak away. If they split with someone camping you shade - just try to put a new one, or port to it, CC camping dude and cloak.

In the meantime if angry small scale group wants to kill a magsorc, they will follow him and kill, and I don't see another scenario except they stop chasing him from boredom.

You realize if you have fear shade and cloak on your bar you’re going to be missing a ton of necessary skills.

- 5 necropotence, 2 bloodspawn, 5 bright throat
- mage mundus
- witch mother's food
- all arcane rings/nec, 2 spell dmg, 1 mag recovery
- defending back bar, nirn/infused front
- ass will, SS, cripple, cloak, clench, incap/soul harvest front bar
- flex, flex, dampen ward, healing ward, shade, resto ult back bar.

on the 2 flex spot I run either siphoning attacks, mutagen, double take, fear, concealed weapon, (last one goes to the front bar, cripple goes to the back bar)

The only problem with this build is telegraphed state of ass will, but well, at least you have non-telegraphed clench (chose one with short range).

And no, what necessary skills am I missing?

And, what, like 2.4k or so spell damage? The damage on this set-up is going to be so low and so easily avoided (bow delay) you're not going to kill anybody but randoms with this.

Thogard

First mag sorc small scale vid is out, take a gander at what we’ve been up to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_stDMD--5wM

Biro123

Thogard wrote: »

First mag sorc small scale vid is out, take a gander at what we’ve been up to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_stDMD--5wM

NoCP I hope! Otherwise your sustain, max mag and shield strength are pitiful..

Thogard

Biro123 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

First mag sorc small scale vid is out, take a gander at what we’ve been up to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_stDMD--5wM

NoCP I hope! Otherwise your sustain, max mag and shield strength are pitiful..

Yeah that’s no cp.

But my shield strength is fine. The days of measuring shieldstrength purely by size of the shield are no more. That trans, bloodspawn and 1x protective means I get more from a 7k shield than many people get from a 10k shield.

Lord-Otto

Thogard wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

First mag sorc small scale vid is out, take a gander at what we’ve been up to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_stDMD--5wM

NoCP I hope! Otherwise your sustain, max mag and shield strength are pitiful..

Yeah that’s no cp.

But my shield strength is fine. The days of measuring shieldstrength purely by size of the shield are no more. That trans, bloodspawn and 1x protective means I get more from a 7k shield than many people get from a 10k shield.

Until you get bled...

Feanor

Thogard wrote: »

First mag sorc small scale vid is out, take a gander at what we’ve been up to:

You're tanky, and that's about it (and even then you almost died twice). You're spending half your time OOM not doing anything but staff LA or HA, and you have to wait for a pot to come off CD because you need the 17k stam for mobility's sake. And you're not killing anything on your own. If that's your idea of a fun way to play Sorc, more power to you. It's not what most people will have in mind though when they think of a ranged damage dealing caster.

Thogard

Feanor wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

First mag sorc small scale vid is out, take a gander at what we’ve been up to:

You're tanky, and that's about it (and even then you almost died twice). You're spending half your time OOM not doing anything but staff LA or HA, and you have to wait for a pot to come off CD because you need the 17k stam for mobility's sake. And you're not killing anything on your own. If that's your idea of a fun way to play Sorc, more power to you. It's not what most people will have in mind though when they think of a ranged damage dealing caster.

Eh... no class can get away with 2 5pc offensive sets without wearing heavy armor and still expect to small scale without a dedicated healer.

I also think this is the first time I’ve been accused of heavy attacking too much.. so thanks?

Feanor

Thogard wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

First mag sorc small scale vid is out, take a gander at what we’ve been up to:

You're tanky, and that's about it (and even then you almost died twice). You're spending half your time OOM not doing anything but staff LA or HA, and you have to wait for a pot to come off CD because you need the 17k stam for mobility's sake. And you're not killing anything on your own. If that's your idea of a fun way to play Sorc, more power to you. It's not what most people will have in mind though when they think of a ranged damage dealing caster.

Eh... no class can get away with 2 5pc offensive sets without wearing heavy armor and still expect to small scale without a dedicated healer.

I also think this is the first time I’ve been accused of heavy attacking too much.. so thanks?

I’m not criticizing your build or your choices. My point is that people are selling this as fun gameplay and Sorc being “strong” still.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

LOL!

Priyasekarssk

Feanor wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

First mag sorc small scale vid is out, take a gander at what we’ve been up to:

You're tanky, and that's about it (and even then you almost died twice). You're spending half your time OOM not doing anything but staff LA or HA, and you have to wait for a pot to come off CD because you need the 17k stam for mobility's sake. And you're not killing anything on your own. If that's your idea of a fun way to play Sorc, more power to you. It's not what most people will have in mind though when they think of a ranged damage dealing caster.

Eh... no class can get away with 2 5pc offensive sets without wearing heavy armor and still expect to small scale without a dedicated healer.

I also think this is the first time I’ve been accused of heavy attacking too much.. so thanks?

I’m not criticizing your build or your choices. My point is that people are selling this as fun gameplay and Sorc being “strong” still.

People who are claiming sorcs are either complete noobs or noobs looking for easy kills. Do you know how many sorcerers signes for dueling tournaments? ZERO. YES . This class is absolute zero. Its noob class and only noobs and lazy are playing it. PVE is not fancy either. This class trailing behind at least 5-10k even from next worst class.

Every time in BG I pray not to get sorc in my team. If you have 2 magic sorc in BG team it's big GG. I won't even play. I simply stand in BG and come out. It's big waste of time.

Ignore noobs who say sorc is strong. Either they are stupid or noobs. Only noobs will play sorc now.

Sorc is complete garbage. Dont even bother playing it. ZOs combat balance team has to fired.

CleymenZero

Neloth wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Stats aren't the problem.

The magblade has much better heals, pressure and sustain. Here's what Sorcs need:

1) A HoT that keeps us alive long enough to make our complicated burst connect. Like a Magicka Vigor. Yeah, you heard me.

2) Overload needs to be UNREFLECTABLE... it's a frigging ultimate! This will help us pressure even DKs.

3) The targeting issues with Frags need to be fixed so that we can actually hit melee builds.

4) We could really use a decent DoT to add pressure and proc Skoria.

5) We need SOMETHING to help with sustain... more cost reduction maybe? Could the pets feed us resources like Engine Guardian?

Stats are the problem. The amount of dmg, sustain and surviavibilty coming from those I listed is incredible. In order to achieve the same efficiency on sorc, I’ll have to give up 10/10 skill slots just for utility skills, which is inaccaptable.

Btw, you have magickamagicka vigor, it’s rapid regen, but wait, you don’t have a skill slot for it. You also won’t have a skill slot for a dot, boundless storm (if you want to run scoria 8nstead of resist set) or a sustain pet.

Btw you also have a great sustain tool, dark deal, but it is also hard to fit in your bars.

P.S. on my magblade I sometimes run double take just for an invasion buff against stamdens, lol. Can you imagine running it on magsorc, if you got the same skill?

Dark deal <<<<<<< Dark Conversion

A stam getting rid of magicka to get stam is way more survivable than a magicka getting rid of stam. It directly and drastically reduces your chances of survival since you have to get rid of your CC break resource to gain your main resource. The skill is not useful at all in pvp unless you use it between fights and not during an escape from 2-3 stams for example.

Lord-Otto

CleymenZero wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Stats aren't the problem.

The magblade has much better heals, pressure and sustain. Here's what Sorcs need:

1) A HoT that keeps us alive long enough to make our complicated burst connect. Like a Magicka Vigor. Yeah, you heard me.

2) Overload needs to be UNREFLECTABLE... it's a frigging ultimate! This will help us pressure even DKs.

3) The targeting issues with Frags need to be fixed so that we can actually hit melee builds.

4) We could really use a decent DoT to add pressure and proc Skoria.

5) We need SOMETHING to help with sustain... more cost reduction maybe? Could the pets feed us resources like Engine Guardian?

Stats are the problem. The amount of dmg, sustain and surviavibilty coming from those I listed is incredible. In order to achieve the same efficiency on sorc, I’ll have to give up 10/10 skill slots just for utility skills, which is inaccaptable.

Btw, you have magickamagicka vigor, it’s rapid regen, but wait, you don’t have a skill slot for it. You also won’t have a skill slot for a dot, boundless storm (if you want to run scoria 8nstead of resist set) or a sustain pet.

Btw you also have a great sustain tool, dark deal, but it is also hard to fit in your bars.

P.S. on my magblade I sometimes run double take just for an invasion buff against stamdens, lol. Can you imagine running it on magsorc, if you got the same skill?

Dark deal <<<<<<< Dark Conversion

A stam getting rid of magicka to get stam is way more survivable than a magicka getting rid of stam. It directly and drastically reduces your chances of survival since you have to get rid of your CC break resource to gain your main resource. The skill is not useful at all in pvp unless you use it between fights and not during an escape from 2-3 stams for example.

Unchained, my friend, Unchained.
(^_-)
But yes, that off-resource discussion is old and most agree that stamina is more precious than magicka. Luckily, we received quite powerful hybrid sustain sets. Before Amberplasm, every mag char was running immo- or tripots for the stamina sustain.

Thogard

Feanor wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

First mag sorc small scale vid is out, take a gander at what we’ve been up to:

You're tanky, and that's about it (and even then you almost died twice). You're spending half your time OOM not doing anything but staff LA or HA, and you have to wait for a pot to come off CD because you need the 17k stam for mobility's sake. And you're not killing anything on your own. If that's your idea of a fun way to play Sorc, more power to you. It's not what most people will have in mind though when they think of a ranged damage dealing caster.

Eh... no class can get away with 2 5pc offensive sets without wearing heavy armor and still expect to small scale without a dedicated healer.

I also think this is the first time I’ve been accused of heavy attacking too much.. so thanks?

I’m not criticizing your build or your choices. My point is that people are selling this as fun gameplay and Sorc being “strong” still.

Fair enough, and thank you for clarifying!

I should post some of my BG stuff for Priya here

Icarus42

I have only seen a handful of mSorcs in cyrodiil. Most of what I see are a bunch of NBs and DKs running around. I did a 5 hour session the other day and only saw 2 other mSorcs the whole time. The reason being that mSorc is ABSOLUTE GARBAGE right now. Even with high mitigation and crit resist your shields get melted every 1.5 seconds... SO GOOD LUCK GETTING ANY KIND OF BURST ROTATION BECAUSE YOU ARE DEAD!! Even with clever alchemist or skoria with sloads you cant burst anything because oh yeah, all the effort you put into mitigation and crit resist your spell damage is GARBAGE!! GOOD LUCK getting a crystal frag to land unless you time your streak perfectly spin around and hit them at point blank range because that is the only way to do it. Even then the frag slows down right in front of them!! Oh and its a really bad idea to get that close to a melee build unless you drop your daedric mines which take 3 seconds to activate!! Oh wait I forgot rapid regen will save the day no worries here!! Now I have 0 flex spots. The only way to play this class now is to stay way back spam shields and use other players as meat shields, or try and streak away as you get taloned and ccd into the ground.
These people who say that we have the best burst and its op ARE IDIOTS!! Do you even pvp as a mSorc???? Do youknow that getting a perfect burst rotation is like winning the lottery. You either have to be sneaky AF or really lucky or go against some potatoes who have not learned how to counter your squishy ass yet!! Seriously...

Icarus42

Sorry for the massive rant...

Mintaka5

magblades are the new magsorc

Seriously, I am bitter too. WHy are nightblades better at magicka than sorcerers? WHY?!?!?!?!?

Neloth

Just wanted to say that I have just bought spell strategist inferno staff, paired it with bloodspawn and bright throat, and it really makes sorc a bit better.

I also reallocated CP in order to get unchained for dark deal, thx for an advice from some dude up there!

To be more competitive in open world 1vs1 against non-potatoes, I back bared atro instead of healing ult.

Btw, is atro moving to player now? I’m pretty sure I seen it teleporting from time to time when I go too far away from it. For example, on BG IC map, when I use teleports in the center. But this behavior seems not to be regular, and I can’t figure it’s conditions yet. Hope anyone helps?

Vanzen

I just dont know what your talking about ...

On PC EU, Mag Sorcs are still dominating BG and end up EVERY time with highest scores.

Out of 12 players you never have less than 4 or 5 mag Sorc.

Lord-Otto

Neloth wrote: »

Just wanted to say that I have just bought spell strategist inferno staff, paired it with bloodspawn and bright throat, and it really makes sorc a bit better.

I also reallocated CP in order to get unchained for dark deal, thx for an advice from some dude up there!

To be more competitive in open world 1vs1 against non-potatoes, I back bared atro instead of healing ult.

Btw, is atro moving to player now? I’m pretty sure I seen it teleporting from time to time when I go too far away from it. For example, on BG IC map, when I use teleports in the center. But this behavior seems not to be regular, and I can’t figure it’s conditions yet. Hope anyone helps?

Sustain?

ccmedaddy

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Just wanted to say that I have just bought spell strategist inferno staff, paired it with bloodspawn and bright throat, and it really makes sorc a bit better.

I also reallocated CP in order to get unchained for dark deal, thx for an advice from some dude up there!

To be more competitive in open world 1vs1 against non-potatoes, I back bared atro instead of healing ult.

Btw, is atro moving to player now? I’m pretty sure I seen it teleporting from time to time when I go too far away from it. For example, on BG IC map, when I use teleports in the center. But this behavior seems not to be regular, and I can’t figure it’s conditions yet. Hope anyone helps?

Sustain?

Bright Throat?

Lord-Otto

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Just wanted to say that I have just bought spell strategist inferno staff, paired it with bloodspawn and bright throat, and it really makes sorc a bit better.

I also reallocated CP in order to get unchained for dark deal, thx for an advice from some dude up there!

To be more competitive in open world 1vs1 against non-potatoes, I back bared atro instead of healing ult.

Btw, is atro moving to player now? I’m pretty sure I seen it teleporting from time to time when I go too far away from it. For example, on BG IC map, when I use teleports in the center. But this behavior seems not to be regular, and I can’t figure it’s conditions yet. Hope anyone helps?

Sustain?

Bright Throat?

That doesn't cover stamina.

IAVITNI

Thogard wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

First mag sorc small scale vid is out, take a gander at what we’ve been up to:

You're tanky, and that's about it (and even then you almost died twice). You're spending half your time OOM not doing anything but staff LA or HA, and you have to wait for a pot to come off CD because you need the 17k stam for mobility's sake. And you're not killing anything on your own. If that's your idea of a fun way to play Sorc, more power to you. It's not what most people will have in mind though when they think of a ranged damage dealing caster.

Eh... no class can get away with 2 5pc offensive sets without wearing heavy armor and still expect to small scale without a dedicated healer.

I also think this is the first time I’ve been accused of heavy attacking too much.. so thanks?

I’m not criticizing your build or your choices. My point is that people are selling this as fun gameplay and Sorc being “strong” still.


Fair enough, and thank you for clarifying!

I should post some of my BG stuff for Priya here

The clip you posted just displays yours and your groups skill as players and does very little to showcase the current state of sorcs. Nothing I saw there couldn't have been done by another class, and most of them would do it better.

A proper show case would have solo open world and dueling alongside group play.

All I saw was a good crown playing a meh class.

Dueling is just as important as a means to measure class balance because the focus is on class mechanics. Ofc the stipulation being that neither players are relying on dueling cheese mechanics. So it would be more accurate to say more 1v1s would need to be included to actually push a point.

I agree with your statement regarding 2 5pc offensive sets. The only problem I see with shield builds right now is sustain. Either skills need to decrease across the board for magicka or light armor cost reduction gets a buff. I'd vote for the former as heavy mag builds could use a bump as well.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Just wanted to say that I have just bought spell strategist inferno staff, paired it with bloodspawn and bright throat, and it really makes sorc a bit better.

I also reallocated CP in order to get unchained for dark deal, thx for an advice from some dude up there!

To be more competitive in open world 1vs1 against non-potatoes, I back bared atro instead of healing ult.

Btw, is atro moving to player now? I’m pretty sure I seen it teleporting from time to time when I go too far away from it. For example, on BG IC map, when I use teleports in the center. But this behavior seems not to be regular, and I can’t figure it’s conditions yet. Hope anyone helps?

Sustain?

Bright Throat?

That doesn't cover stamina.

Blood Spawn is often enough to cover stam sustain with tri food. I don't think Neloth ever said that Witchmother was being used. Could be dubious.

TheYKcid

I would love to be able to run 5/5/2 to get some decent stats, like every other class is able to, with vMA resto backbarred. But having to run Forcepulse + Cage for CC means you lose 2 bar slots, which are really tight on Sorc at the moment. Cage is also a crap CC both in terms of reliability and burst potential now.

Seems like Sorc will continue to be shoehorned into Master destro with its corresponding crappy frontbar stats, since ZOS has continually neglected to give the old veteran Arena weapons a 1pc stats bonus. Probably until ZOS gets around to that mythical overhaul of Sorc offense they've talked about, which I'm honestly worried will end up being another net nerf anyway.

Metemsycosis

Thogard wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

First mag sorc small scale vid is out, take a gander at what we’ve been up to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_stDMD--5wM

NoCP I hope! Otherwise your sustain, max mag and shield strength are pitiful..

Yeah that’s no cp.

But my shield strength is fine. The days of measuring shieldstrength purely by size of the shield are no more. That trans, bloodspawn and 1x protective means I get more from a 7k shield than many people get from a 10k shield.

Have you considered inevitable Det+ curse + rune for more burst? What's nice is in your setting you'd spread your opponents even more so.

I don't like the dark deal/conversion skill on your bar. I'd get rid of rapids but I see you'd have no other way to proc trans without it (and trans is so very good, imo).

Anyone look into lich+impreg (divines, mage or apprentice)+ will power, Domi+bloodspawn, witchmothers?

I'm also looking into btb+bone tatters with transmuted jewelry and witchmothers drink.

Lord-Otto

Dubious is a big hit to max mag, which is still more useful than spellpower. Regardless, I was just interested in knowing the stats.

Inevitable is too slow to cast. It's often negated by LoS. And when if it isn't, its damage is very poor and doesn't make up for the cast time.

Impreg is missing stam regen. You gotta get that from somewhere, and that will cost you damage. Of course, if you're fine with a tank setup, ALL IMPEN Impreg is quite strong with Lich. Divines is a waste, the miniscule mag gain not worth it.

Metemsycosis

Heard. Thank you. But impreg+ bloodspawn should be enough Stam, no? With all divines apprentice how much sd you gain? 2-300. Pretty good, all things considered. Plus 4k max Magicka on front bar with willpower.

Spit balling here.

I like inevitable, tho you're right it's slow. Whenever I use it I make sure it's on a cc'd opponent or in the open view. That's how you get past the channel anyway. I've had great success with it in the bgs but haven't tried since murkmire.

thankyourat

@IAVITNI
The thing about 1v1s is that some classes are just better than others in duels because of how straight forward they are. Where you see classes like magwarden and magblade being top teir in duels but not so good in open world. I think both magden and magblade are both better than their stamina counterpart in duels but I think most people would agree that Stamden and stamblade are the two best classes while you would be hard pressed to find anyone saying magblade or magden are top tier classes at the moment. While sorc has always been the opposite since dark brotherhood magsorc has been horrible at duels but it's always been a top 3 class for open world PvP.

I do agree with solo open world and coordinated groups being how you balance the classes, but I feel like dueling has no place in the balance conversation it doesn't represent cyrodiil combat at all. Dueling is really only good for practicing your mechanical ability and burst combos.

Neloth

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Just wanted to say that I have just bought spell strategist inferno staff, paired it with bloodspawn and bright throat, and it really makes sorc a bit better.

I also reallocated CP in order to get unchained for dark deal, thx for an advice from some dude up there!

To be more competitive in open world 1vs1 against non-potatoes, I back bared atro instead of healing ult.

Btw, is atro moving to player now? I’m pretty sure I seen it teleporting from time to time when I go too far away from it. For example, on BG IC map, when I use teleports in the center. But this behavior seems not to be regular, and I can’t figure it’s conditions yet. Hope anyone helps?

Sustain?

Bright Throat?

That doesn't cover stamina.

You are right, though as mentioned before my stamina sustain is partially covered by bloodspawn stam regen. Using 3-stat glyphs I push my max stam to a bare minimum of 13k, and try not to dodge roll and dark deal only after break free.

Also I’m using wichmother, since there is no 3-maxstat drink, right?

Think I have 1 mag regen glyph on jewelry, which I wanted to drop for dmg one, but maybe will drop it for stam regen.

Also, this build won’t work in no-CP, but personally I don’t care much, since playing non-stamina build there is generally bad, so I can just use stamsorc there.

Lord-Otto

Triglyphs. There it is. That is actually a solution I can approve. 13k stam with one regen bonus (~950 regen?) is definitely enough, IMO.
Think there's no tristat drink.

Yeah, gotta have a big enough stam pool to actually have the regen tick often enough for another CC break. Around +2k max stam is usually sufficient if you don't overuse rolling.

300 spellpower gives me 3% more damage. Maybe 5%. Seven pieces of Impen give like 30% crit reduction. Way better.