Dear magsorcs...

Neloth

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Triglyphs. There it is. That is actually a solution I can approve. 13k stam with one regen bonus (~950 regen?) is definitely enough, IMO.
Think there's no tristat drink.

Yeah, gotta have a big enough stam pool to actually have the regen tick often enough for another CC break. Around +2k max stam is usually sufficient if you don't overuse rolling.

300 spellpower gives me 3% more damage. Maybe 5%. Seven pieces of Impen give like 30% crit reduction. Way better.

I don’t think that using tri-stat glyphs is even questionable this patch, since not only it gives you better stamina management, but also raises you shield cap (bigger health pool).

I also want to try 5 clever alchemist, 5 spell strategist, 2 bloodspawn, 2 willpower, sustain using which mother and 1 regen glyph.

wheem_ESO

Neloth wrote: »

Also I’m using wichmother, since there is no 3-maxstat drink, right?

There actually is. It's called Spring-Loaded Infusion, and the recipe (which is bind on pick-up) comes from a quest in Clockwork City. The cook in the Outlaw Refuge of the Brass Fortress, named Brengolin, starts the quest chain, with Spring-Loaded Infusion being the reward for the second stage (and Clockwork Citrus Filet coming from the third).

Neloth

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Also I’m using wichmother, since there is no 3-maxstat drink, right?

There actually is. It's called Spring-Loaded Infusion, and the recipe (which is bind on pick-up) comes from a quest in Clockwork City. The cook in the Outlaw Refuge of the Brass Fortress, named Brengolin, starts the quest chain, with Spring-Loaded Infusion being the reward for the second stage (and Clockwork Citrus Filet coming from the third).

Wow, I didn’t know. Going to buy some in guild stores to try, and if it works well will do the quest, tyvm.

gepe87

I just found that Nerfmire brought a buff to NoCP Magsorcs. You made us to change to a tanky build (I lost 1,5k mag and stam), and as you may notice, critical % is too low in noCP Cyrodiil to brak our buffed shields (more resistances) without decreasing spell damage and spell penetration.

Biro123

gepe87 wrote: »

I just found that Nerfmire brought a buff to NoCP Magsorcs. You made us to change to a tanky build (I lost 1,5k mag and stam), and as you may notice, critical % is too low in noCP Cyrodiil to brak our buffed shields (more resistances) without decreasing spell damage and spell penetration.

Good point. I don't really play no-cp, but find transmutation really good in CP.
I kind of wonder if the lower crit chance and damage in no-cp makes it better to focus on resists over crit-resists to get more out of your shields?

Neloth

Biro123 wrote: »

gepe87 wrote: »

I just found that Nerfmire brought a buff to NoCP Magsorcs. You made us to change to a tanky build (I lost 1,5k mag and stam), and as you may notice, critical % is too low in noCP Cyrodiil to brak our buffed shields (more resistances) without decreasing spell damage and spell penetration.

Good point. I don't really play no-cp, but find transmutation really good in CP.
I kind of wonder if the lower crit chance and damage in no-cp makes it better to focus on resists over crit-resists to get more out of your shields?

Spell/phys resists are not that good against stamblades, wardens and bleeds, which in combination are 99% of current no-CP meta.

edit: grammar

Galarthor

gepe87 wrote: »

I just found that Nerfmire brought a buff to NoCP Magsorcs. You made us to change to a tanky build (I lost 1,5k mag and stam), and as you may notice, critical % is too low in noCP Cyrodiil to brak our buffed shields (more resistances) without decreasing spell damage and spell penetration.

What buff?
You had to sacrifice either damage or sustain to achieve tankier shields. That's not a buff. Sure, crits only increase the damage by 12.5% on average but at the same time you don't really have much higher resistences as you are pretty much forced to run light armor due to the sustain-wreck mag sorcs are. And then there are still penetration which reduces the tankyness even further.

Don't get me wrong, you can become tankier than before, but only if you sacrifice other stats for it. That's not really a buff. You could have done that before as well. You could have run full heavy armor for example. The tankiness would have not directly come from you shields but you were still tankier at the expense of sustain and damage ... pretty much the same that is happening here.

Lord-Otto

Oh, right. Spring-Loaded actually has all three stats. But it's quite a chunk weaker than solid food.
Triglyphs are nice, but it depends on your sets, really. If you're getting a health bonus from your armor or bi-/tristat food, Hakeijos are just overkill on health.

gepe87

Well, I'm just telling my experience, I'm having more trouble in CP than noCP campaign (Before Nerfmire was the opposite). And yeah it's true that bleed it's a problem, but being tankier gives you some time to resist other atacks than bleed. You got time to resist, recover and counter.

MalagenR

Yeah I can wear Sload's and Overwhelming in BG's and it's not even fair. People just melt.

pieratsos

thankyourat wrote: »

@IAVITNI
The thing about 1v1s is that some classes are just better than others in duels because of how straight forward they are. Where you see classes like magwarden and magblade being top teir in duels but not so good in open world. I think both magden and magblade are both better than their stamina counterpart in duels but I think most people would agree that Stamden and stamblade are the two best classes while you would be hard pressed to find anyone saying magblade or magden are top tier classes at the moment. While sorc has always been the opposite since dark brotherhood magsorc has been horrible at duels but it's always been a top 3 class for open world PvP.

I do agree with solo open world and coordinated groups being how you balance the classes, but I feel like dueling has no place in the balance conversation it doesn't represent cyrodiil combat at all. Dueling is really only good for practicing your mechanical ability and burst combos.

Its not exactly about the outcome of a duel but the fight itself. Seeing the different mechanics of the class, how they can adapt to different situations, their weaknesses, their advantages against decent opponents. Sure sorcs can streak around and focus potatoes down that overextend from their groups but if thats the ceiling of the class then it kinda gets boring.

Yes other magicka class may be behind sorcs (debatable) in solo open world because of lack of mobility which leads to getting zerged down more often but when you actually get into a good fight that will test the mechanics of ur class, the fights that are actually fun, those classes have the ability to do better.

IAVITNI

pieratsos wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

@IAVITNI
The thing about 1v1s is that some classes are just better than others in duels because of how straight forward they are. Where you see classes like magwarden and magblade being top teir in duels but not so good in open world. I think both magden and magblade are both better than their stamina counterpart in duels but I think most people would agree that Stamden and stamblade are the two best classes while you would be hard pressed to find anyone saying magblade or magden are top tier classes at the moment. While sorc has always been the opposite since dark brotherhood magsorc has been horrible at duels but it's always been a top 3 class for open world PvP.

I do agree with solo open world and coordinated groups being how you balance the classes, but I feel like dueling has no place in the balance conversation it doesn't represent cyrodiil combat at all. Dueling is really only good for practicing your mechanical ability and burst combos.

Its not exactly about the outcome of a duel but the fight itself. Seeing the different mechanics of the class, how they can adapt to different situations, their weaknesses, their advantages against decent opponents. Sure sorcs can streak around and focus potatoes down that overextend from their groups but if thats the ceiling of the class then it kinda gets boring.

Yes other magicka class may be behind sorcs (debatable) in solo open world because of lack of mobility which leads to getting zerged down more often but when you actually get into a good fight that will test the mechanics of ur class, the fights that are actually fun, those classes have the ability to do better.

Yup. Pretty much that. Dueling requires knowledge of class mechanics much more than any form of PvP and therefore is the best place to showcase class mechanics relative to another class. Of course this isn't a solo game so group and pug play would still take greater precedence in general.

Arguably, every class should be competitively balanced while slotting Julianos/hundings and Willpower/Agility. These sets provide the best baseline of comparison when it comes to PvP, at least in terms of DPS.

I tried to differentiate what I meant from strictly dueling. It's more of a 1v1 open world scenario as opposed to a duel. For example, sorc is only as bad as it is in duels because anything but the traditional sorc is frowned upon. Running a pet+atro and camping mines is still very strong in a duel. Throw in Engine Guardian and you have a top-tier cheese build.

But you don't run into that build often in cyro. The builds that one could actually balance around based on findings from a duel would be solo open world builds. These builds are the most balanced as they try to min-max more than BGs or group builds.

Two players of equal skill on different classes running a well-rounded solo open world build will provide a lot of insight as to how the 2 classes are balanced against each other.