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Adjustments to How Weapon Enchants and Poisons Trigger

ZOS_Gilliam
ZOS_Gilliam
Combat Team
Greetings! Today the combat team would like to update you on some of our plans in regards to the popular topic and debates; enchantments and poisons! Recently we introduced a new system that allowed enchants and poisons to follow a better line of logic for triggering, which in turn has given us much more direct control on when and where they can fire off. In that process we originally allowed any Weapon Attack (any weapon skill line ability, Light Attack, or Heavy Attack) to trigger an enchant or a poison, and we've been closely monitoring feedback on how it has affected the game in many different avenues. Even after the recent fix to prevent multiple enchants from firing simultaneously, we're still not completely happy with how much damage enchants are granting with low effort input.

In a future incremental we'll be updating which abilities cannot fire enchantments or poisons. The changes will only affect single target Damage over Time abilities, or abilities that apply a single target DoT (such as Carve or Rend). The reasoning behind this is based on the usage and effort required for these abilities. Single target DoTs generally offer very steady damage that's more guaranteed compared to Direct Damage or ground targeted effects that require your opponent to stand inside them, and allowing powerful enchants to apply multiple times over their duration was enabling too much damage for too little effort.

It's worth mentioning that a few of these issues were already highlighted during the PTS, and you may be upset that they went to Live without adjustments. We admit that we could have done a better job at taking in feedback and reacting accordingly to it. Amidst the large number of changes we made, we did not give enough time to this specific issue itself, as our attention was focused on other areas of feedback. Moving forward with our Class Rep Program and the new NDA in line, we have high hopes that the class representatives themselves will feel more empowered to continue pointing out larger topics that you, the community, are passionate about; so we can better adjust ourselves to tackling the issues that are most important.
ESO Senior Combat Designer
Staff Post
  • Pelican
    Pelican
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    Thank you guys so much, looking forward to it ^.^
    PC NA - EP Solo PvP Player
    https://www.youtube.com/c/pelicaneso
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    Thanks guys and well written. Glad to see a post from @ZOS_Gilliam .

    Shame to see single target dots not proc it mainly because it was a cool idea for tanks in pve to have an extra enchant from their back bar, but it was cool while it lasted and gave too much for pvp.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on October 30, 2018 6:13PM
    PC Beta - 2200+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • casparian
    casparian
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    When was the last time ZOS made a major balance change in an incremental patch? This is really good to see.
    Edited by casparian on October 30, 2018 6:23PM
    7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.
  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    Thanks for the update. Looking forward to coming back to Cyro.

    I'd like to point out that most proc damage sets are "too much damage for too little effort" as well.
  • eso_nya
    eso_nya
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    Please dont nerf Torugs cause someone died in pvp while being the better player :/
  • ezio45
    ezio45
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    So just to clarify, Single target weapon abilities like force pulse will not be effected by this change?
  • ak_pvp
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    Good change, I am incredibly skeptical about everything ZOS but I do think that it is good that it has been addressed relatively quickly. But does this change not effectively place them back to the pre murkmire area? Where wall and hail could proc them as well as direct/initial hits including LA/HA. Or is the % chance different too

    @ZOS_Gilliam
    Edited by ak_pvp on October 30, 2018 6:20PM
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Rukzadlithau
    Rukzadlithau
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    Amen
  • Nerftheforums
    Nerftheforums
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    Amazing amazing amazing amazing. Thank you! And this thing of adjusting issues in incremental patches is BEAUTIFUL. Not having to wait 3 months to see adjustments coming is glorious. Good luck guys!
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Now that's how you respond professionally lol.

    Looking forward to future changes/responses by you, Gill.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Good change, I am incredibly skeptical about everything ZOS but I do think that it is good that it has been addressed relatively quickly. But does this change not effectively place them back to the pre murkmire area? Where wall and hail could proc them as well as direct/initial hits including LA/HA. Or is the % chance different too

    @ZOS_Gilliam

    Your offhand DW enchant wouldn't proc unless you light/heavy attacked, skills like rending slash have 2x initial hits that will both proc an enchant. They fixed out the bugs. Single target DoT's wont proc enchants, but now they actually work as intended.
    PC Beta - 2200+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    Beautiful, a return to sanity.
    0331
    0602
  • Minno
    Minno
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Good change, I am incredibly skeptical about everything ZOS but I do think that it is good that it has been addressed relatively quickly. But does this change not effectively place them back to the pre murkmire area? Where wall and hail could proc them as well as direct/initial hits including LA/HA. Or is the % chance different too

    @ZOS_Gilliam

    Your offhand DW enchant wouldn't proc unless you light/heavy attacked, skills like rending slash have 2x initial hits that will both proc an enchant. They fixed out the bugs. Single target DoT's wont proc enchants, but now they actually work as intended.

    And to piggy back off this, rending has 2 initial hits because it applies the snare effect and applies the first dot tick.

    In case anyone wanted to know!
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Emma_Overload
    Emma_Overload
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    @ZOS_Gilliam

    What about spells that have both a direct damage component and a DOT, like Destructive Reach, for example?

    The initial direct damage will still proc the enchant, right?
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • testd4n1
    testd4n1
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    It really is good to see a post from you @ZOS_Gilliam. Your videos have been missed!
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    Minno wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Good change, I am incredibly skeptical about everything ZOS but I do think that it is good that it has been addressed relatively quickly. But does this change not effectively place them back to the pre murkmire area? Where wall and hail could proc them as well as direct/initial hits including LA/HA. Or is the % chance different too

    @ZOS_Gilliam

    Your offhand DW enchant wouldn't proc unless you light/heavy attacked, skills like rending slash have 2x initial hits that will both proc an enchant. They fixed out the bugs. Single target DoT's wont proc enchants, but now they actually work as intended.

    And to piggy back off this, rending has 2 initial hits because it applies the snare effect and applies the first dot tick.

    In case anyone wanted to know!

    No, it actually has 2 slashes. The dot is a third tick that hits 1 second after, thats why the dot lasts for 9 seconds.

    Edit: Maybe you meant 1 slash applies the DoT and the other applies the snare. That would be pretty interesting, but yeah, both those direct damage attacks should still proc enchants.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on October 30, 2018 6:45PM
    PC Beta - 2200+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • weedgenius
    weedgenius
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    Happy to see a timely, honest, and informative ZOS post! :smile:
    PS4 NA
    Better Homes & Gardens
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    TL:DR

    We reverted the changes with Murkmire xD
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    TL:DR

    We reverted the changes with Murkmire xD

    Not exactly. They fixed out the bugs. Enchants proc more reliably and the only exception now is single target DoTs, direct damage hits like rending slashes and force pulse "should" proc more than 1 enchant on cast.

    For years we had to use Poison enchants on your mainhand DW because it would not proc from weapon abilities in your offhand. Berserker enchant would only proc off light/heavy attacks. Now it procs off skills in the offhand.
    PC Beta - 2200+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • Revokus
    Revokus
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    Now it will be a buff to zergs and their aoes...
    Playing since January 23, 2016
  • dpencil1
    dpencil1
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    @ZOS_Gilliam
    Another great post. They are lucky to have you there speaking so eloquently on their behalf, sir! Way to own the responsibility for letting the enchant changes go to live, much respect for your candor. I also hope the NDA will bring a deeper community rep involvement in long term direction for class identity and balance. Keep up the good work!
  • idk
    idk
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    The last sentence sums things up. Good to see devs admitting they dropped the ball when such changes are made in light of strong feedback
  • del9
    del9
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    Thanks for the update @ZOS_Gilliam ! Very happy to see this.
    PCNA

  • Burtan
    Burtan
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    With these changes, a rapids nerf and possibly a few Nightblade adjustments, I think Cyrodiil will be the most balanced and fun it has ever been.
    Awesome.
  • jypcy
    jypcy
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    TL:DR

    We reverted the changes with Murkmire xD

    Not exactly. They fixed out the bugs. Enchants proc more reliably and the only exception now is single target DoTs, direct damage hits like rending slashes and force pulse "should" proc more than 1 enchant on cast.

    For years we had to use Poison enchants on your mainhand DW because it would not proc from weapon abilities in your offhand. Berserker enchant would only proc off light/heavy attacks. Now it procs off skills in the offhand.

    I probably don’t fully grasp the series of changes that have been made to enchant procs, but how would force pulse proc multiple enchants? Wouldn’t it still be the case that enchants proc only from attacks on the bar they were fired from, and thus force pulse, cast from a staff with a single enchant, could only proc a single enchant?
  • Ulfgarde
    Ulfgarde
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    Very cool but it's a shame this problem was let into live without ZOS clearly addressing it in a timely fashion. This was such a lackluster move for PvP players.
    Very athletic eso player
    PC EU
  • Own
    Own
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    Don't forget bleeds from d/w and 2h passives
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Minno wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Good change, I am incredibly skeptical about everything ZOS but I do think that it is good that it has been addressed relatively quickly. But does this change not effectively place them back to the pre murkmire area? Where wall and hail could proc them as well as direct/initial hits including LA/HA. Or is the % chance different too

    @ZOS_Gilliam

    Your offhand DW enchant wouldn't proc unless you light/heavy attacked, skills like rending slash have 2x initial hits that will both proc an enchant. They fixed out the bugs. Single target DoT's wont proc enchants, but now they actually work as intended.

    And to piggy back off this, rending has 2 initial hits because it applies the snare effect and applies the first dot tick.

    In case anyone wanted to know!

    No, it actually has 2 slashes. The dot is a third tick that hits 1 second after, thats why the dot lasts for 9 seconds.

    Edit: Maybe you meant 1 slash applies the DoT and the other applies the snare. That would be pretty interesting, but yeah, both those direct damage attacks should still proc enchants.

    yea I remember they went through and changed DK passive to only apply snare off direct dmg portions of the dot abilities. This is the same thing (first hit applies the snare and then it's the first dot)

    Though in weird ways, some players noticed taking 3+ hits off Total Dark and based on their description, its looking like TD considers rending 3 direct hits lol. Or maybe that was an enchant on the initial hit.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    Great to see an update like this, communication / explanation of changes in this way, timely & clear will go a very long way with the players.

    Thanks you
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
    1st Emperor of Ravenwatch
    Alts - - for the Lolz
    Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
    Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
    Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master

    Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
    Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
    Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders

    Xbox One | NA | EP
    Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
    Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
    Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
    Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach
  • LonePirate
    LonePirate
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    Bless you, Gilliam, for trying to save this game despite all of the indifference you confront. However, I did roll my eyes at your last sentence as I suspect reticence by the Class Reps is not and has never been the major problem with that program.
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