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Adjustments to How Weapon Enchants and Poisons Trigger

ZOS_Gilliam
ZOS_Gilliam
Combat Team
Greetings! Today the combat team would like to update you on some of our plans in regards to the popular topic and debates; enchantments and poisons! Recently we introduced a new system that allowed enchants and poisons to follow a better line of logic for triggering, which in turn has given us much more direct control on when and where they can fire off. In that process we originally allowed any Weapon Attack (any weapon skill line ability, Light Attack, or Heavy Attack) to trigger an enchant or a poison, and we've been closely monitoring feedback on how it has affected the game in many different avenues. Even after the recent fix to prevent multiple enchants from firing simultaneously, we're still not completely happy with how much damage enchants are granting with low effort input.

In a future incremental we'll be updating which abilities cannot fire enchantments or poisons. The changes will only affect single target Damage over Time abilities, or abilities that apply a single target DoT (such as Carve or Rend). The reasoning behind this is based on the usage and effort required for these abilities. Single target DoTs generally offer very steady damage that's more guaranteed compared to Direct Damage or ground targeted effects that require your opponent to stand inside them, and allowing powerful enchants to apply multiple times over their duration was enabling too much damage for too little effort.

It's worth mentioning that a few of these issues were already highlighted during the PTS, and you may be upset that they went to Live without adjustments. We admit that we could have done a better job at taking in feedback and reacting accordingly to it. Amidst the large number of changes we made, we did not give enough time to this specific issue itself, as our attention was focused on other areas of feedback. Moving forward with our Class Rep Program and the new NDA in line, we have high hopes that the class representatives themselves will feel more empowered to continue pointing out larger topics that you, the community, are passionate about; so we can better adjust ourselves to tackling the issues that are most important.
Associate Combat Designer
Staff Post
  • ezio45
    ezio45
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    So just to clarify, Single target weapon abilities like force pulse will not be effected by this change?
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    Good change, I am incredibly skeptical about everything ZOS but I do think that it is good that it has been addressed relatively quickly. But does this change not effectively place them back to the pre murkmire area? Where wall and hail could proc them as well as direct/initial hits including LA/HA. Or is the % chance different too

    @ZOS_Gilliam
    Edited by ak_pvp on October 30, 2018 6:20PM
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Buzo
    Buzo
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    Amen
  • Marshall1289
    Marshall1289
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Good change, I am incredibly skeptical about everything ZOS but I do think that it is good that it has been addressed relatively quickly. But does this change not effectively place them back to the pre murkmire area? Where wall and hail could proc them as well as direct/initial hits including LA/HA. Or is the % chance different too

    @ZOS_Gilliam

    Your offhand DW enchant wouldn't proc unless you light/heavy attacked, skills like rending slash have 2x initial hits that will both proc an enchant. They fixed out the bugs. Single target DoT's wont proc enchants, but now they actually work as intended.
    Played since PC Beta and PS4 Launch - 9xx CP

    Stam Sorc Redguard PvE Main || Stam Sorc Orc PvP Main
    Soon to be Stam Neco Khajiit || Stam Warden Redguard BowBow || Stam Blade Wood Elf BowBow

    Mag Sorc Altmer || Mag DK Dunmer
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    Beautiful, a return to sanity.
    0331
    0602
  • Minno
    Minno
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Good change, I am incredibly skeptical about everything ZOS but I do think that it is good that it has been addressed relatively quickly. But does this change not effectively place them back to the pre murkmire area? Where wall and hail could proc them as well as direct/initial hits including LA/HA. Or is the % chance different too

    @ZOS_Gilliam

    Your offhand DW enchant wouldn't proc unless you light/heavy attacked, skills like rending slash have 2x initial hits that will both proc an enchant. They fixed out the bugs. Single target DoT's wont proc enchants, but now they actually work as intended.

    And to piggy back off this, rending has 2 initial hits because it applies the snare effect and applies the first dot tick.

    In case anyone wanted to know!
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Emma_Overload
    Emma_Overload
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    @ZOS_Gilliam

    What about spells that have both a direct damage component and a DOT, like Destructive Reach, for example?

    The initial direct damage will still proc the enchant, right?
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • Marshall1289
    Marshall1289
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    Minno wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Good change, I am incredibly skeptical about everything ZOS but I do think that it is good that it has been addressed relatively quickly. But does this change not effectively place them back to the pre murkmire area? Where wall and hail could proc them as well as direct/initial hits including LA/HA. Or is the % chance different too

    @ZOS_Gilliam

    Your offhand DW enchant wouldn't proc unless you light/heavy attacked, skills like rending slash have 2x initial hits that will both proc an enchant. They fixed out the bugs. Single target DoT's wont proc enchants, but now they actually work as intended.

    And to piggy back off this, rending has 2 initial hits because it applies the snare effect and applies the first dot tick.

    In case anyone wanted to know!

    No, it actually has 2 slashes. The dot is a third tick that hits 1 second after, thats why the dot lasts for 9 seconds.

    Edit: Maybe you meant 1 slash applies the DoT and the other applies the snare. That would be pretty interesting, but yeah, both those direct damage attacks should still proc enchants.
    Edited by Marshall1289 on October 30, 2018 6:45PM
    Played since PC Beta and PS4 Launch - 9xx CP

    Stam Sorc Redguard PvE Main || Stam Sorc Orc PvP Main
    Soon to be Stam Neco Khajiit || Stam Warden Redguard BowBow || Stam Blade Wood Elf BowBow

    Mag Sorc Altmer || Mag DK Dunmer
  • weedgenius
    weedgenius
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    Happy to see a timely, honest, and informative ZOS post! :smile:
    PS4 NA
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    TL:DR

    We reverted the changes with Murkmire xD
    WTB a non-bugged werewolf for at least one patch
    (PC/EU)
    Probably the worst Werewolf on PC/EU


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  • Marshall1289
    Marshall1289
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    TL:DR

    We reverted the changes with Murkmire xD

    Not exactly. They fixed out the bugs. Enchants proc more reliably and the only exception now is single target DoTs, direct damage hits like rending slashes and force pulse "should" proc more than 1 enchant on cast.

    For years we had to use Poison enchants on your mainhand DW because it would not proc from weapon abilities in your offhand. Berserker enchant would only proc off light/heavy attacks. Now it procs off skills in the offhand.
    Played since PC Beta and PS4 Launch - 9xx CP

    Stam Sorc Redguard PvE Main || Stam Sorc Orc PvP Main
    Soon to be Stam Neco Khajiit || Stam Warden Redguard BowBow || Stam Blade Wood Elf BowBow

    Mag Sorc Altmer || Mag DK Dunmer
  • Revokus
    Revokus
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    Now it will be a buff to zergs and their aoes...
    Playing since January 23, 2016
  • dpencil1
    dpencil1
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    @ZOS_Gilliam
    Another great post. They are lucky to have you there speaking so eloquently on their behalf, sir! Way to own the responsibility for letting the enchant changes go to live, much respect for your candor. I also hope the NDA will bring a deeper community rep involvement in long term direction for class identity and balance. Keep up the good work!
  • idk
    idk
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    The last sentence sums things up. Good to see devs admitting they dropped the ball when such changes are made in light of strong feedback
    Really, idk
  • del9
    del9
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    Thanks for the update @ZOS_Gilliam ! Very happy to see this.
    PCNA

  • Burtan
    Burtan
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    With these changes, a rapids nerf and possibly a few Nightblade adjustments, I think Cyrodiil will be the most balanced and fun it has ever been.
    Awesome.
    I run really fast
    Sotha Sil PC EU
    Solo/Smallscale PvP Player
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  • jypcy
    jypcy
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    TL:DR

    We reverted the changes with Murkmire xD

    Not exactly. They fixed out the bugs. Enchants proc more reliably and the only exception now is single target DoTs, direct damage hits like rending slashes and force pulse "should" proc more than 1 enchant on cast.

    For years we had to use Poison enchants on your mainhand DW because it would not proc from weapon abilities in your offhand. Berserker enchant would only proc off light/heavy attacks. Now it procs off skills in the offhand.

    I probably don’t fully grasp the series of changes that have been made to enchant procs, but how would force pulse proc multiple enchants? Wouldn’t it still be the case that enchants proc only from attacks on the bar they were fired from, and thus force pulse, cast from a staff with a single enchant, could only proc a single enchant?
  • Ulfgarde
    Ulfgarde
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    Very cool but it's a shame this problem was let into live without ZOS clearly addressing it in a timely fashion. This was such a lackluster move for PvP players.
  • Own
    Own
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    Don't forget bleeds from d/w and 2h passives
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Minno wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Good change, I am incredibly skeptical about everything ZOS but I do think that it is good that it has been addressed relatively quickly. But does this change not effectively place them back to the pre murkmire area? Where wall and hail could proc them as well as direct/initial hits including LA/HA. Or is the % chance different too

    @ZOS_Gilliam

    Your offhand DW enchant wouldn't proc unless you light/heavy attacked, skills like rending slash have 2x initial hits that will both proc an enchant. They fixed out the bugs. Single target DoT's wont proc enchants, but now they actually work as intended.

    And to piggy back off this, rending has 2 initial hits because it applies the snare effect and applies the first dot tick.

    In case anyone wanted to know!

    No, it actually has 2 slashes. The dot is a third tick that hits 1 second after, thats why the dot lasts for 9 seconds.

    Edit: Maybe you meant 1 slash applies the DoT and the other applies the snare. That would be pretty interesting, but yeah, both those direct damage attacks should still proc enchants.

    yea I remember they went through and changed DK passive to only apply snare off direct dmg portions of the dot abilities. This is the same thing (first hit applies the snare and then it's the first dot)

    Though in weird ways, some players noticed taking 3+ hits off Total Dark and based on their description, its looking like TD considers rending 3 direct hits lol. Or maybe that was an enchant on the initial hit.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Beardimus
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    Great to see an update like this, communication / explanation of changes in this way, timely & clear will go a very long way with the players.

    Thanks you
    Xbox One | EU | EP
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    Xbox One | NA | EP
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  • LonePirate
    LonePirate
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    Bless you, Gilliam, for trying to save this game despite all of the indifference you confront. However, I did roll my eyes at your last sentence as I suspect reticence by the Class Reps is not and has never been the major problem with that program.
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