How do patch notes make you feel about upcoming updates?

jcm2606

Disappointed to my deepest foundations.

Anken5

I play only one character since two years and this patch will totally destroy him. So i am very sad.
I think i will leave the game and spend more time on Red Dead Redemption 2 multiplayer.

umagon

I look at the combat changes first, I like the direction they seem to be headed in regards to balancing survivability vs damage output. Plus, they gave tanks some nice buffs, although many don’t see them. I however do when I look at the numbers. What’s interesting is that somethings that looked like “nerf” are actually a buff once I started playing around with numbers. I am still wanting improvements for power slam; I know it will not make it into the murkmire patch. I have this funny build I am working on its all like “I am going put shields on your shield so you can shield while your shielding” type of thing.

DoonerSeraph

It looks like they only have the small window of the DLC to make all the changes, it feels rushed, not tested, unsatisfying.

At the end people dont look that much at new content when they have to worry about changing to manage content they always did. Isnt it possible to make small combat updates weekly or monthly? That would give us time to digest the changes and see how the pieces fall.

Using the shield nerfs as context. If they only made the shields crittable and affected by resistances, for example, and wait 2 weeks or a month, they can gather usage data to see if shields still need some tweak like the HP cap or cast time.

Minno

Mixed feelings. They solved some major Templar painpoints but created others in the process.

And I'm sure that is the same for other classes.

I am hyped for certain sets and build shifting around on my Templar. But I unsubbed after the speed changes targeted solo players but left rapids spam zergs intact.

Vahrokh

Tasear wrote: »

Do you get hyped?

I exclusively play 5 magsorcs.

Do I need to explain more?

Adenoma

I feel like the speed difference between classes is going to be even more noticeable with speed nerfs to swift/forward momentum, etc. I play mostly stamina so I’ll suffer the least of it because I use forward momentum, but it’ll stink to feel like I’m walking through glue every four seconds. This is before they announce any changes to major expedition pots.

Combat changes to shields seem a little bit heavy-handed and instead of titration to a preferred level of balance, they just went all out. I would have been more interested in just seeing them made critable first and go from there. Now there are a bunch of unintuitive and unmentioned asterisks to shields that aren’t readily digestible for new players.

There changes seem to be reducing class diversity and all the different colors of the class system are just mixing brown.

I really like this game, I’ve played a lot of time, and in the past I’ve disagreed with changes and been unexcited about things (like Morrowind sustain nerfs), but recognized that they were correct in the end.

We’ve still got problems even post-patch where medium has worse snare immunity than shuffle and has equivalent access to major expedition.

aeowulf

I've been dreading all natch potes since & including Morrowind.

Nothing's changed...

DarcyMardin

Not hyped. I’m sad about it. Not really into Argonian lore or swampy areas. And, as someone who has a lot of characters but plays mostly magicka, I’m upset about all the nerfs. I still see most of the balance changes as being primarily about PvP, which I don’t participate in, and I’m really tired of that.

I love my magden, despite her pathetic damage, and she keeps getting nerfed instead of buffed. (My bear is crying in the corner). My shields, which I use and *need* on all my magicka characters, aren’t going to be worth slotting. Healing ward is being gutted despite all the talk about making healers great again. And the server lag doesn’t seem to be getting any better.

So no. I mean, thanks for the house and other stuff, which is much appreciated, but regretfully I am not hyped.

mague

Feanor wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Best update since Morrowind (if bg q will be actually working for high mmr chars).
And legions of forum warriors addicted to their broken stuff crying that it end of the world won't change it.

Yes it’s an awesome update if you happen to play a stam char.

Hmm.. i was playing EQ2 (24 classes game) for almost 10 years on the same character and class. It had ups and downs. Worst time was when the mechanics turned into the natural enemy of HoT healers. Gave me a lot of time to do old group and raid content and discover my soloer side It turned out due to the nerfs my class was suddenly the no 1 solo class with almost endless sustain. Enough to beat raid boss'es. I had a fight of 45 minutes solo against a boss with waves of adds

I think this is part of playing MMO's. Learning to live with changes or to move on.

MakeMeUhSamich

I’m honestly dreading this patch (MagSorc PVE main). Crap sustain, mediocre DPS, and now sketchy survivability.

Speccing/gearing into those deficiencies only further weakens DPS. MagSorcs in Trials? Pfft...

PVP is a non-issue since playing horse simulator/disconnect/load screen/zerg doesn’t blow my skirt up.

I’ll give the new patch a go once it’s actually live, but there is ZERO hype for Samich.

Flaminir

Pre-morrowind I was always hyped about patches... and patch notes! And so were most people.

Remember all the HUGe natch potes threads we used to have? Everybody getting excited.... even knowing there may be the odd thing we didn't like, but that was balanced by lots of good stuff.

Morrowind was a turning point in how I feel about them, but I also noticed that the reactions on the forums changed around then as well.

Now the joy & excitement has gone from patch notes... people are expecting bad news from them due to the continual nerfs.

Nerfs presumably to counteract the power creep from CP, but thats another conversation.... but still kinda relevant as nerfs breed negativity, & sadly those will likely keep coming to maintain a semblance of balance.

Galarthor

I used to look forward to the PTS patch notes to see how the class balancing will develop. As a PvP player that's pretty much the only relevant information in the patch notes.

However, nowadays, I am not sure if I want there to be any more patch notes b/c of the horrible ideas ZOS has of late. And no patch notes means no changes, which means the horrible ideas remain ideas. And even if they are then implemented without PTS testing ... sometimes ignorance is bliss.

ezio45

@Tasear Ik ive talked about this with you but honestly im looking forward to patch notes now they already killed everything I play in update 20 rock bottom means they cant do any worse lol

jk lol ya I still dont think these major game updates at the same time as dlc or chapters are a good idea, morrowind left me with a bad taste in my mouth and it definitely hurt my enjoyment of that content and I really still havent given morrowind much of a chance to this day. Update 20 is definitely going to result in more of the same. Mostly because people dont remember that there separate things i feel. I dont have a clue what update morrowind was but when I think back I remember morrowind as the thing that killed my builds and made alot of my friends leave.

Ladislao

There will be a lot of changes in the upcoming update. Some changes are good, some are debatable. But any changes refresh the game and avoid stagnation, making the game more interesting.

So yes, I'm hyped.

Xvorg

Tasear wrote: »

What would you think if combat changes didn't come together with new content but instead say a different time?

I think it would be better. Any change done with new content and that includes new sets looks like pay to gear.

code65536

Cinbri wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Best update since Morrowind (if bg q will be actually working for high mmr chars).
And legions of forum warriors addicted to their broken stuff crying that it end of the world won't change it.

The question is how patch notes affect people's hype over new content coming.

And my answer is obvious.
Same goes for a lot of people who liked game, but problem is that those people decide to go to most toxic place of ESO known as "forum", and reading it slowly killing their hype. That's why alot of people who play game for long stopped even coming in such place. Read patchnotes and get out from site as fast as possible is most safe action if you wana your mood to not be killed.

Or... or... they could be someone who spent literal hours on the PTS, experiencing the changes first-hand, and deciding that they are total ***. How many hours have you spent on the PTS? I've spent about 8 at this point.

StamWhipCultist

Vahrokh wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Do you get hyped?

I exclusively play 5 magsorcs.

Do I need to explain more?

but why, lol

SenorCrouch

"Not looking forward to it." mixed with some dread would be an apt description for me.

It seems like the devs are really really happy about these sorc changes and their minds seemed pretty set on the whole cast time for shields. Grant it we got it changed, but look at how hard we, as a community, had to fight to revert those changes. 50+ pages of comments in the feedback for sorcs thread and how many class reps threatening to leave their position before ZoS took us remotely seriously?

My concern here is I have seen this type of struggle between community and dev studio before. Bungie used to do this to their community all the time before the community had enough of it. They were masters at lack of transparency and blatant disregard of community concerns. Came off as a superiority complex, "We are better than you all cause we are game devs and you are all just common rabble. We know what's best for you and this game."

To make matters worse is it appears, unknown if it is actually true, but it appears as though the devs don't have well rounded knowledge of each of the game's classes and sub-classes in all the major aspects of this game (Alliance War, Trials, Group Dungeons, Battlegrounds, Questing/Exploration, Housing). Going back to the cast timers on damage shields. The fact that @ZOS_RobGarret, who I assume was speaking for the team responsible for the changes, doubled down on their decision when even a semi-competent sorc trial runner, let alone an expert, could have told the community that a cast timer on vCloudrest and vMaelstrom is a ridiculous idea. It scares me that this dev team is coming off more and more as people just doing a job rather than gamers really really passionate about this game. Now I may be wrong, but again, it is what it is appearing as.

Now maybe ZoS does have some great ideas coming down the pike that will totally rework sorcs and sub-classes like healers, but right now they are electing to do the Bungie thing of being very closed off and isolated from the community rather than the Digital Extremes thing of engaging the community and letting them know what's up.

ezio45

also wolf hunter and murk are definelty good examples for me about how patch notes can change opinion about content at least fot me

Wolf hunter was kinda a dlc I was neutral with, im now a person that really cares about dungeons. So I was of the mind set of ok thats not my thing ill justignore it and keep going with summerset and pvp. Patch notes come out, they did some good things to ww, saw them playing one on eso live and it looked pretty fun so I got excited and made one.

Murk was also a neutral dlc for me, Im not huge into agronians, So I was of the mind set of ok the lizards get something fun, im still enjoying summerset all cool. Gina says some articale about shields getting changed and im like oh got murks gunna be bad. Get the patch notes, changes are awful and now im the mind set of f murk this can stay in zos's fault for ever and id be fine if they never updated the game pass update 19 for the rest of my life.

Both started as a dlc i had no interest in, ones patch notes got me hyped for it, the other completely killed its dlc for me

keevil111

I play all classes, heals, tank, stam, magicka. So I do get somewhat hyped when notes come out and I can see what's changing. Buffs or nerfs don't even bother me. LOL It just gives me reasons to play different characters.

IAVITNI

Tasear wrote: »

What would you think if combat changes didn't come together with new content but instead say a different time?

Would this have any affect on changes?

ZoS has a corporate schedule they need to adhere too, different due dates won't change how the workload is distributed but on when they are focused on what. Furthermore, the biggest changes are combat changes and there is a dedicated team for that from what I hear.

Using Murkmire as an example, my frustrations are derived with the lack of knowledge that devs possess of actual gameplay.

When I heard about the cast time on shields, I was upset but I understood that they were over-performing in certain situations and were too forgiving, especially as a magsorc main. I also understood that it was the first PTS pass so there would be change. I carried on with the assumption and started theory crafting PvP builds that would cope with the cast time.

To me, this change made sense as it addressed a known issue in a precise manner. There are other shields in the game, but they were not overperforming. These shields were not touched, or were done so very slightly to account for the resistance changes, but with the intention of not altering the status quo-i.e. bone shield, fragmented etc. that were all altered to maintain current live performance levels.

What was frustrating was that, despite the significant hit to sorc defence, there was no compensation. The only method of surviving on the class was gutted and mobility was not increased to compensate. Sorc was by no means over-performing as a class and yet despite the fact that they took a significant nerf, there were not even QoL changes to mobility.

Couple this with the fact that Mark was reduced to 5 seconds (fantastic change as hard counters are indicative of inability to actually balance skills) Shield breaker was not touched. The hard counter to a defensive mechanic that was not altered at all and is largely considered to be over-performing in various scenarios was balanced, but the hard counter for a mechanic that was barely over-performing and was nerfed to the extreme was left untouched.

Despite these frustrations, I still had faith in the devs.

All faith was lost after the mobility changes.

The nerf to Swift was necessary. 6% may be a tad too low however, maybe 7% is best.

The upcoming Major Expedition pot changes are frustrating as a solo player. Zergs/potatos already have so many sets and load-outs that carry them by removing player skill from the equation, and the last thing that solo had to rely on is being taken away completely and nothing is done to snares to compensate. However, I understand that these mechanics were over-performing. I don't believe a nerf to both is necessary. Yes, a change to these potions is necessary as their buff is amplified by Swift, regardless of Swift's potency, but this could have been done by increasing the opportunity cost of these potions by removing the Stamina or immovable components. There is nothing OP with the Health Regen + Speed pots, that offer only 2 bonuses. The benefit:loss ratio is relatively balanced with tri-pots.

What was incredibly frustrating and destroyed all faith in the devs is this senseless homogenization of skills in a CLASS BASED game. This approach is removing the identity of classes slowly and actually makes skills harder to balance. Duration of buffs plays a critical factor in the value of a skill.

Vampire Mist was a nice mobility option, but was never ideal because of the cancelled magicka regen and the short duration. Now that the duration of Major Expedition on Falcon's Swiftness and Lightning Armor has been homogenized, Mist wins in every situation where mobility is necessary. Each and every single one. The strength of Falcon's was the significant up-time of Major Expedition, and from a PvP perspective, this was actually worth more than the Minor Berserk for solo play. Lightning Armor was a weak skill even with the 7.5 second Major duration. And despite the fact that sorc mobility needed to be increased, they nerfed what is likely to become a staple in PvP builds.

So what was the difference?

• The shield changes were a targeted nerf that addressed mechanics that were overperforming, in a way that logically addressed the problem despite the lack of functionality. This kind of balance attempt can be fixed.
• The mobility changes were a blanket nerf that hurts everything, including skills that were not over-performing and destroys what is arguably the last life line for solo play in a set-carry meta. Knowledge of Offensive and Defensive windows was pretty much the only thing remaining for solo players against the mindless zerglings (Note* Zergs=/co-ordinated group). ZoS has destroyed skill gaps in damage by introducing sets like Sloads and Za'an. ZoS has destroyed defensive gaps by increasing mitigation and introducing sets like Earthgore. And now ZoS will effectively destroy combat windows, as zerglings will literally snare you with their SPAMMABLE and stack every debuff with near 100% uptime, removing a solo players ability to create/utilize offensive windows.And for those who say a solo shouldn't be able to x, a trained fighter with a stick would clap 3 untrained fighters using paintball guns.
• ZoS simply does not have the game knowledge for blanket zerfs
• Balance implies that if something has deviated from desired performance standards, changes are made to approach that standard. In a complex equation, such as class skills/passives, balance can be achieved via various methods by manipulating different variables in different ways. What ZoS has done to magsorc was remove a major portion of the class strength and give nothing to compensate it, further distancing the class from the desired standard of balance

I have 0 faith remaining for these devs. If this patch continues with homogenization and blanket nerfs I'm done. Haven't touched the game much since Murkmire PTS opened, and haven't touched it at all since the mobility nerfs. ZoS thinks, that this is THEIR game. It's not. It's OURS. The Community owns this game. And the Community is comprised of more than just the devs, and there are many players much like the reps who have far more insight into the game that are able to better predict consequences of mindless changes that ZoS should consult and ACT on said consultation, because at the end of the day it's the players that pay the bills. ZoS is not only failing at balancing game mechanics but also at Customer Service 101.

lucky_dutch

I am being forced to wear heavy armor, my sustained pressure has been nerfed and my burst has become so easy to dodge that it's barely worth attempting vs a competent player.

Yeah I'm STOKED!

Silver_Strider

I've wasted over 250k buying furniture plans, mats, etc. just to build a Mausoleum to lay my NB Tank and Healer to rest and I'm still not done with it.

CasNation

Tasear wrote: »

What would you think if combat changes didn't come together with new content but instead say a different time?

That's a very interesting thought.

From a player standpoint, I find patch notes to be very exciting, but I mostly care about the balance changes, since that will have a much larger effect on how I play than whatever content is coming. The content often takes a back seat for me.

From a business standpoint, it might be a brillaint idea to dissociate balance changes from content updates, at least for the most part. When controversial changes come through, focus on the new content is lost, and a lot of people see the new content as an "exit point" to jump ship if they arent happy with the balance changes. It's a signal to vote with their wallets and not buy the content. However, if they are given a chance to adapt to the balance changes, then when bee content rolls around, it isnt associated with sweeping negativity.

I think that staggering the content updates and the balances updates would be a great idea. It would also allow for players to be more focused on testing each specific piece, and we would be able to test new things in isolation. For example, we could focus on the new gear sets ONLY, and worry about the balance changes in a few (6 ish) weeks.

This would also make it feel like we were getting more frequent content, even if we actually aren't.

AhPook_Is_Here

I feel disappointment or hype for sure.

Strider__Roshin

The game is going in the right direction.

eso_nya

Im not the type of person that gets hyped much anyways. While im looking forward for new stories and a zone to explore, the newest patch continues a trend that i dont like:

#1 balancing pve and pvp together by ignoring battlespirit
For me, those two r impossible to balance together in an mmo. Looking at SWToR, they went with "same skill, different animation" system and still ended up with a pvp system were there was always one advanced class that was outperforming all others by far.
In eso, pvp and pve r so far apart, that the respective metas r like a bad joke if u'd try it in the other area. Like triffood, shackle and impen on a mag char in pve; alkosh and ebon in pvp. When keeping them linked, balancing one side will always have unintended sideeffects on the other area. Making skills that do the same thing behave different for no good reason (aside fake diversity) and adding more and more exceptions to base mechanics creates a mess that becomes exponetially harder to controll. Over time it tends to blow up everytime u try to make a minor adjustment, without tripplechecking the things that shouldnt be, but somehow r effected. Just for fun: Try to balance a burst spec and a dot spec to have an equal ttk in pve and pvp.

#2 any role on any class
While the idea behind is great, the implementation goes poorly imho. Rolerestricted morphs: eruption, cloak, path, shards to name a few. For me the cool thing in eso is the freedom when choosing gear and role. (other mmos come with "cuirass of eternal darkness" - can only be equiped by "Paladin of Helm" advanced class) being allowed to hotswap gear and loadout to swap roles is a great feature. Restricting morphs of keyskills to certain roles is impacting this ability alot lately.

Secondarily, the changes that r made to allow every class to do every role and the things that make a certain class considered bis in said role dont seem to have anything in common. The root problem here being the design of endgame content, thats not really compatible with tanky tanks, healing healers, melee dds and favours raw dps over utility. Than there is players ability to become selfsustained tanking, healing dmg machines that cant be stopped unless its a oneshot.

The changes made to class skills to make them "viable" in all roles, seem to be for a game that is based on the trinity, where healers and tanks r well healing and tanking and r dependant on the other, where raids r about utility, playing together as a team (outside of, raidlead says: "use this set! now stack & burn!") and offering utility with bringing different classes. stuff like sneaky char being able to solve the puzzle quicker; melee char in heavy, does only 25k dps, doesnt matter 20k would do, but has offtankish abilties that make boss 3 so much easier and so on.

#3 luck over efford
There isnt much left of that dead horse to beat. I suspect its an american <> european thing, where the european is happy when getting "payment" after spending x amount of time doing a thing, while the american might feel special "because im so good at this game i dropped that awesome item"? Just a guess, not really good at things involving brain chemicals.
Less grind, more reward would be really apprechiated. There r sometimes halfhearted attempts to ease up on grinding, but they always feel like "we just pretend its better now, we want it that grindy". Like how long do u want to wait when u plan to buy a specific monstershoulder from the golden? The chances to drop e.g. a mother sorrow firestick from a worldboss went up from 0.0385% to 0.3077% as u can ignore trait now and _farm_ transmute crystals. its still a snippy dropchance and why do crystals need a cap? r we planning for changing gear in a way that requires to refarm the same sets u already have and dont want ppl to get away without regrinding?

(Im to lazy to type down "#4 crafting" right now, and i guess noone kept reading thru #2 anyways xD Is there a "classrep" for crafting?)


Those being my longterm "painpoints", looking at the new update in a "does it get better or worse?" way, im not hyped.

Feanor

Daus wrote: »

The game is going in the right direction.

That’s a pretty exclusive opinion you have there I guess. There always will be winners and losers of changes, but Update 20 looks a bit extreme so far.

Yusuf

Me and my friends barely logged in ever since the initial PTS patchnotes.

Our characters are gonna be overall weaker than before and won't have anything new or interesting to make up for what they lost, so no hype whatsoever.