So they nerfed Swift, they nerfed Boundless Storm, but they didn't nerf SPEED POTS?

idk

code65536 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Speed pots will actually be addressed next week; we just ran out of time to get it into today's patch, that's all.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_RobGarrett Again, more changes made for PvP with no regards to PvE.

How are classes that have no reliable source of Expedition expected to do the Balorgh hunt in vMoS HM? You know, that same hunt mechanic that the dev team hilarious failed repeatedly on ESO Live? Many tanks run speed pots for that mechanic.

Or the main tank in vCR? If Z'Maja teleports across the entire length of the room and the tank can't get there fast enough, she will blast everyone in the group.

All of these speed fixes are bandaids that avoid the main problem: That Swift+Expedition in PvP make players virtually untargetable. These are poor, inadequate fixes because all you're doing is reducing the duration of broken combat speed. The problem is that these speeds are attainable in the first place. Making these broken speeds last shorter durations isn't the way to fix this.

Leave Swift alone. Leave Expedition alone. The only thing you should be changing is lowering the in-combat speed cap.

Not only sound logic to adjust the existing mechanism Zos worked on a year or two ago, but clearly explains the huge detachment between Zos' understanding of the combat design and fight mechanics they have put into the game.

mojomood

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Speed pots will actually be addressed next week; we just ran out of time to get it into today's patch, that's all.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
One point that was missed in these changes that would be great for next week is Rapids. I hope the change that is coming is to give us a speed/sorcery/magicka potion but if a nerf to the existing speed pots is incoming, please look at Rapids as well. Otherwise, ball groups will be the only ones with permanent speed uptime. Similar to when Barrier was hitting everyone so they would just rotate. Most ball groups will have a stamsorc spamming Rapids to make sure people keep speed up. Can that be changed?

Possible ways to change in a way that only stop the ball group Rapid spam:
~Increase cost if cast within X seconds by 50% and reduce the duration by 50%

mojomood

brookus wrote: »

Instead of nerfing Swift/speed pots, which are useful in other areas outside of pvp (harvesting, MTing for vCR, etc), why not just have speed impacted by battlespirit? So the effect is halved, or whatever, when you are in a pvp zone. Seems pretty simple.

Coward's gear. EZ

ChefZero

TequilaFire wrote: »

/sigh Now have fun getting through the oil at a breach. smh

Rapid + purge + siege shield + shadow ult = easy

Mayrael

HAHAHAH Nerf speed pots into the ground you nerf whiners never learn Im so happy now "All we wanted was swift nerf" LOL When nerf hammer hits, it should hit everybody

NobleX35

Revokus wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Good thing too, running speed pots is already has a built-in trade off of not being able to run other pots.

LOL, no it doesn't. Stamina builds can still run speed pots and get lots of other good buffs built into the potion, Magicka builds are SCREWED.

Magicka builds aren't meant to be as mobile as stamina builds...so what's your point?

Right cause stamina doesn’t have 28 meters unlimited gap closer at their disposal ? Lol. Besides casters are in fact suppose to be more mobile than melee. It’s always been the case for all mmo’s except eso for some flawed reason. Melee have gap closers so I hope they nerf speed pots so maybe stamina players could sprint more and use gap closer like they are suppose to ?

Most MMO's got it wrong...why should a caster who can attack an enemy safely from range be able to have better mobility than a melee person who needs to put themselves at risk by putting themselves in the middle of the enemy's numbers...it makes no sense. Also it's not only about being able to close the gap...it's about being able to get in and OUT of the engagement.

BaylorCorvette

NobleX35 wrote: »

Also it's not only about being able to close the gap...it's about being able to get in and OUT of the engagement.

This.

Being able to dip out effectively is just as important as closing the gap.

Strider__Roshin

Yeah 45 seconds is a little too much. I think 15 seconds would work. You know, the time it takes me to transport a relic

Arciris

I think the issue is how they read feedback.

Instead of reading:
- N players wants Swift to be looked at becuase XYZ reasons, but not other things
- N1 players want FM to be looked at, because of ZWY reasons, but not other things
- N2 players want Major expedition to be looked because YZW reasons, but not other things
- N3 players want speed pots to be looked at because ZYW reasons, but not other things

it all becomes: (all) players want swift, FM, M.Exp and speed pots to be looked at.

Feedback is very important for ZOS and they don't want to exclude anyone, so they go ahead a nerf all things, thinking the player base will be happy. Of course people are not happy because for 1 victory (they got the nerf they wanted) , they suffer 3 losses.
I honestly don't see another explanation to the nerf machine gun hammer.

Minno

Arciris wrote: »

I think the issue is how they read feedback.

Instead of reading:
- N players wants Swift to be looked at becuase XYZ reasons, but not other things
- N1 players want FM to be looked at, because of ZWY reasons, but not other things
- N2 players want Major expedition to be looked because YZW reasons, but not other things
- N3 players want speed pots to be looked at because ZYW reasons, but not other things

it all becomes: (all) players want swift, FM, M.Exp and speed pots to be looked at.

Feedback is very important for ZOS and they don't want to exclude anyone, so they go ahead a nerf all things, thinking the player base will be happy. Of course people are not happy because for 1 victory (they got the nerf they wanted) , they suffer 3 losses.
I honestly don't see another explanation to the nerf machine gun hammer.

Different teams resulting in different nerfs under heavy deadlines:
- item team sees feedback and nerfs sets that give major expeiditon + nerf swift trait (checklist checked)
- combat team sees feedback and nerfs major expedition sources. Also buffs steed, nerfs forward momentum (checklist complete)

RedRook

RIP Bird of Prey, you were beautiful while you lasted. Another loss for magdens because stamdens are a pain in the *** in PVP.

More than any other class, stamina wardens and magicka wardens have mostly the same stuff, yet stamdens are wrecking face in PVP and magdens are hanging on by their fingertips.

Clearly it's class skills that should be repeatedly nerfed, amirite. It must be the class skills.

It would be nice, please, if all classes could play magicka specs and not be the damn healer.

Cinbri

@ZOS_GinaBruno I hope Rapid Maneuver wasn't addressed coz time limit too and will be addressed next week? Otherwise this skill is completely out of line of new definition of player speed mechanic, while its negative impact on pvp is higher than combine impact of rest of familiar skills.

Arciris

Minno wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

I think the issue is how they read feedback.

Instead of reading:
- N players wants Swift to be looked at becuase XYZ reasons, but not other things
- N1 players want FM to be looked at, because of ZWY reasons, but not other things
- N2 players want Major expedition to be looked because YZW reasons, but not other things
- N3 players want speed pots to be looked at because ZYW reasons, but not other things

it all becomes: (all) players want swift, FM, M.Exp and speed pots to be looked at.

Feedback is very important for ZOS and they don't want to exclude anyone, so they go ahead a nerf all things, thinking the player base will be happy. Of course people are not happy because for 1 victory (they got the nerf they wanted) , they suffer 3 losses.
I honestly don't see another explanation to the nerf machine gun hammer.

Different teams resulting in different nerfs under heavy deadlines:
- item team sees feedback and nerfs sets that give major expeiditon + nerf swift trait (checklist checked)
- combat team sees feedback and nerfs major expedition sources. Also buffs steed, nerfs forward momentum (checklist complete)

Good point.
But isn't there someone to coordinate those 2 teams?

Bergzorn

mojomood wrote: »

One point that was missed in these changes that would be great for next week is Rapids.

Hands off the Rapids. I'm serious!

casparian

Arciris wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

I think the issue is how they read feedback.

Instead of reading:
- N players wants Swift to be looked at becuase XYZ reasons, but not other things
- N1 players want FM to be looked at, because of ZWY reasons, but not other things
- N2 players want Major expedition to be looked because YZW reasons, but not other things
- N3 players want speed pots to be looked at because ZYW reasons, but not other things

it all becomes: (all) players want swift, FM, M.Exp and speed pots to be looked at.

Feedback is very important for ZOS and they don't want to exclude anyone, so they go ahead a nerf all things, thinking the player base will be happy. Of course people are not happy because for 1 victory (they got the nerf they wanted) , they suffer 3 losses.
I honestly don't see another explanation to the nerf machine gun hammer.

Different teams resulting in different nerfs under heavy deadlines:
- item team sees feedback and nerfs sets that give major expeiditon + nerf swift trait (checklist checked)
- combat team sees feedback and nerfs major expedition sources. Also buffs steed, nerfs forward momentum (checklist complete)

Good point.
But isn't there someone to coordinate those 2 teams?

On paper, yes. But either that person does not understand how the game works on a competitive level, or they are actively trying to clear out established players and make ESO a game for casual cosmetic-hunters.

Xvorg

NobleX35 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Good thing too, running speed pots is already has a built-in trade off of not being able to run other pots.

LOL, no it doesn't. Stamina builds can still run speed pots and get lots of other good buffs built into the potion, Magicka builds are SCREWED.

Magicka builds aren't meant to be as mobile as stamina builds...so what's your point?

Are you saying that to a magsorc? Really?

NobleX35

Xvorg wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Good thing too, running speed pots is already has a built-in trade off of not being able to run other pots.

LOL, no it doesn't. Stamina builds can still run speed pots and get lots of other good buffs built into the potion, Magicka builds are SCREWED.

Magicka builds aren't meant to be as mobile as stamina builds...so what's your point?

Are you saying that to a magsorc? Really?

Magsorcs are the obvious exception because of bolt and should not have even been considered in that statement.

Xvorg

NobleX35 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Good thing too, running speed pots is already has a built-in trade off of not being able to run other pots.

LOL, no it doesn't. Stamina builds can still run speed pots and get lots of other good buffs built into the potion, Magicka builds are SCREWED.

Magicka builds aren't meant to be as mobile as stamina builds...so what's your point?

Are you saying that to a magsorc? Really?

Magsorcs are the obvious exception because of bolt and should not have even been considered in that statement.

Well, Magblade with concelaede weapon and spamming cloak is also quite mobile. If you ad major expedition the can outrun easily any DK or Templar.

NobleX35

Xvorg wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Good thing too, running speed pots is already has a built-in trade off of not being able to run other pots.

LOL, no it doesn't. Stamina builds can still run speed pots and get lots of other good buffs built into the potion, Magicka builds are SCREWED.

Magicka builds aren't meant to be as mobile as stamina builds...so what's your point?

Are you saying that to a magsorc? Really?

Magsorcs are the obvious exception because of bolt and should not have even been considered in that statement.

Well, Magblade with concelaede weapon and spamming cloak is also quite mobile. If you ad major expedition the can outrun easily any DK or Templar.

Ok...and? Some mag classes are more mobile than other mag classes, so what? In general magicka builds are not as mobile as stamina builds, and should definitely not be as mobile as medium armor stamina builds.

The_Brosteen

*looks at thread title*
Hmm they nerfed more than just those two things that provide increased movement speed why is OP not includi- *sees poster name*

ooooohhhhhh

Arciris

So I grabbed my crystal ball and what I saw was: players still not able to target other players.

QQ will resume as usual.

- N players will want Swift to be looked at becuase XYZ reasons, but not other things
- N1 players will want FM to be looked at, because of ZWY reasons, but not other things
- N2 players will want Major expedition to be looked because YZW reasons, but not other things
- N3 players will want speed pots to be looked at because ZYW reasons, but not other things

ZOS will deliver by nerfing all the above again. Players still not able to target other players. QQ will resume as usual

Xvorg

NobleX35 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Good thing too, running speed pots is already has a built-in trade off of not being able to run other pots.

LOL, no it doesn't. Stamina builds can still run speed pots and get lots of other good buffs built into the potion, Magicka builds are SCREWED.

Magicka builds aren't meant to be as mobile as stamina builds...so what's your point?

Are you saying that to a magsorc? Really?

Magsorcs are the obvious exception because of bolt and should not have even been considered in that statement.

Well, Magblade with concelaede weapon and spamming cloak is also quite mobile. If you ad major expedition the can outrun easily any DK or Templar.

Ok...and? Some mag classes are more mobile than other mag classes, so what? In general magicka builds are not as mobile as stamina builds, and should definitely not be as mobile as medium armor stamina builds.

Well, now light armor will give you extra mobility with the grace passive. 20% snare reduction + reduction on sprinting will make magicka more mobile.

TBH, I don't think "magicka classes" were designed to the "stay your ground" playing style. I think they were designed towards the mage archetype, which requires certain mobility to be effective. Sure, the Rogue archetype (hit and run) is more mobile, but that doesn't mean Mages have to be anchored to a spot.

Now, the warrior archetype (which many stam specs try to follow) is indeed a "stay your ground" playing style, but most "warriors" here play "hit and run" without the consequences of it (just like a rogue, but higher, better, faster, stronger)

Chilly-McFreeze

Xvorg wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

Good thing too, running speed pots is already has a built-in trade off of not being able to run other pots.

LOL, no it doesn't. Stamina builds can still run speed pots and get lots of other good buffs built into the potion, Magicka builds are SCREWED.

Magicka builds aren't meant to be as mobile as stamina builds...so what's your point?

Are you saying that to a magsorc? Really?

Magsorcs are the obvious exception because of bolt and should not have even been considered in that statement.

Well, Magblade with concelaede weapon and spamming cloak is also quite mobile. If you ad major expedition the can outrun easily any DK or Templar.

Ok...and? Some mag classes are more mobile than other mag classes, so what? In general magicka builds are not as mobile as stamina builds, and should definitely not be as mobile as medium armor stamina builds.

Well, now light armor will give you extra mobility with the grace passive. 20% snare reduction + reduction on sprinting will make magicka more mobile.

TBH, I don't think "magicka classes" were designed to the "stay your ground" playing style. I think they were designed towards the mage archetype, which requires certain mobility to be effective. Sure, the Rogue archetype (hit and run) is more mobile, but that doesn't mean Mages have to be anchored to a spot.

Now, the warrior archetype (which many stam specs try to follow) is indeed a "stay your ground" playing style, but most "warriors" here play "hit and run" without the consequences of it (just like a rogue, but higher, better, faster, stronger)

And what does your concept say about stam/melee specs needing to be able to actually catch those ranged casters? Being able to stand your ground doesn't do much when you simply can't reach your target because he runs away.

usmcjdking

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I'm generally for this changes but there are two things to consider except for the fact that these speed nerfs are not universal in PVP much like the sustain nuking of Morrowind was not universal (harness and nightblade) leaving certain types of play supreme because they are unaffected.

I am again, for the umphundreth time, bringing up Rapid Manuevers. Groups with a dedicated rapids spammer will continue to infinitely spam rapids to receive permanent major expedition and incredibly high root/snare immunity while individual players, small group players, or generally any group of people without a dedicated rapids spammer are left in the dump truck.

Please address rapids in a nearby patch. The speed nerfs are not universally affecting all players which is unfair to the balance of the game and a majority of your patrons.

Secondly, let's talk about range versus melee. Particularily bow. The reduction in speed make a well-built snipe spammer incredibly difficult to address as you likely are going to eat a disgusting amount of damage in simply acquiring their location and getting a hold of them. The reduction of maj exp means that being caught outside of maj exp (even with a gap closer) means you need to spend an awful amount of resources to not only heal, but get close enough to gap close (god forbid you don't even have a gap closer available). This should be addressed as well. Magblade w/ cloak isn't in a much different boat than a snipe spammer as well.

TequilaFire

ChefZero wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

/sigh Now have fun getting through the oil at a breach. smh

Rapid + purge + siege shield + shadow ult = easy

Yeah four slots on a Templar to replace a potion.
And now some in this thread are also calling for a nerf on rapids. smh
Just because they play classes that actually have mobility to start with.
RIP DK and Templar.

Emma_Overload

The_Brosteen wrote: »

*looks at thread title*
Hmm they nerfed more than just those two things that provide increased movement speed why is OP not includi- *sees poster name*

ooooohhhhhh

Wow, an ad hominem attack really proves your point...

Wait, what IS your point?

usmcjdking

TequilaFire wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

/sigh Now have fun getting through the oil at a breach. smh

Rapid + purge + siege shield + shadow ult = easy

Yeah four slots on a Templar to replace a potion.
And now some in this thread are also calling for a nerf on rapids. smh

Well, what do you expect? Everything BUT rapids & Skooma Smuggler got put into the trashcan. Now, no one cares about Skooma Smuggler. The only reason to continue to advocate for leaving rapids as is, is because you feel you deserve a mechanical advantage over any player who doesn't play like you.

TequilaFire

usmcjdking wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

/sigh Now have fun getting through the oil at a breach. smh

Rapid + purge + siege shield + shadow ult = easy

Yeah four slots on a Templar to replace a potion.
And now some in this thread are also calling for a nerf on rapids. smh

Well, what do you expect? Everything BUT rapids & Skooma Smuggler got put into the trashcan. Now, no one cares about Skooma Smuggler. The only reason to continue to advocate for leaving rapids as is, is because you feel you deserve a mechanical advantage over any player who doesn't play like you.

Just remember that when you are playing horse simulator to get across Cyrodiil and don't have rapids.
Hey you know what let's remove gap closers and streak as well as they are a mechanical advantage. lol

usmcjdking

TequilaFire wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

/sigh Now have fun getting through the oil at a breach. smh

Rapid + purge + siege shield + shadow ult = easy

Yeah four slots on a Templar to replace a potion.
And now some in this thread are also calling for a nerf on rapids. smh

Well, what do you expect? Everything BUT rapids & Skooma Smuggler got put into the trashcan. Now, no one cares about Skooma Smuggler. The only reason to continue to advocate for leaving rapids as is, is because you feel you deserve a mechanical advantage over any player who doesn't play like you.

Just remember that when you are playing horse simulator to get across Cyrodiil and don't have rapids.

Did I say remove Rapids? Did something get lost in translation when laying out the problem and making a nod towards me not having a solution and asking for it to be 'looked at'?

ChefZero

TequilaFire wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

/sigh Now have fun getting through the oil at a breach. smh

Rapid + purge + siege shield + shadow ult = easy

Yeah four slots on a Templar to replace a potion.
And now some in this thread are also calling for a nerf on rapids. smh
Just because they play classes that actually have mobility to start with.
RIP DK and Templar.

Or you just play with some friends...