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Dear ZoS please reconsider the bear nerf

MooseKnuckles88
MooseKnuckles88
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I really like most of the changes that help out the warden class in the Murkmire update. The added changes to animal companions are great, all except the rather massive nerf to the bear. A whopping 30% dmg reduction on the bears dmg.

Do you not think that this is a bit much? In your Sept. 25th meeting notes you openly admitted that the dmg was lower than expectations even. I know the bear has to be nerfed to some extent but 30% seems a bit excessive. In my honest opinion, I feel like a max of a 15% nerf is more than sufficient for a nerf and see how that goes before slapping a rather substantial nerf right off the bat. In the initial Murkmire patch change there was no explanation or comments for the nerf. In the second Murkmire class change notes, again there was nothing said or stated about the reasoning for a significant change.

To help ease my mind and maybe give some closure to myself and others who may feel the same way, I'd love some feedback about why such a change is going into effect.
  • rumple9
    rumple9
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    You get more DPS with Northern Storm slotted than the bear anyway (extra 8% magicka)
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    Glurin wrote: »
    Glurin wrote: »
    To help ease my mind and maybe give some closure to myself and others who may feel the same way, I'd love some feedback about why such a change is going into effect.

    They nerfed the bear so that they can buff other things, bringing warden base damage up and reducing the DPS gap between using the bear and using some other ultimate, which in turn makes the warden less reliant on the bear.

    You can argue all day long whether or not that is good or bad, but that's the reasoning behind the nerf.

    The problem is that destro ultimate builds still aren't even close to competitive with other classes. The bear is the only way to hit competitive DPS, and just barely at that, on a static targer dummy.

    Oh it's more than that. Those buffs that were mentioned? You pretty much have to just slot a bunch of the animal skills to see them.

    Yeah.....

    JVEDtqD.jpg

    What are you even on about?
  • Glurin
    Glurin
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    Glurin wrote: »
    Glurin wrote: »
    To help ease my mind and maybe give some closure to myself and others who may feel the same way, I'd love some feedback about why such a change is going into effect.

    They nerfed the bear so that they can buff other things, bringing warden base damage up and reducing the DPS gap between using the bear and using some other ultimate, which in turn makes the warden less reliant on the bear.

    You can argue all day long whether or not that is good or bad, but that's the reasoning behind the nerf.

    The problem is that destro ultimate builds still aren't even close to competitive with other classes. The bear is the only way to hit competitive DPS, and just barely at that, on a static targer dummy.

    Oh it's more than that. Those buffs that were mentioned? You pretty much have to just slot a bunch of the animal skills to see them.

    Yeah.....

    JVEDtqD.jpg

    What are you even on about?

    Did you even read the thread?
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  • Zardayne
    Zardayne
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    ZOS has no idea what they're doing.

    Even with the bear, magicka warden is still tied for the lowest DPS in the game. But that means their DPS will go down in actual content where the AI runs into pathing issues and deals less DPS. It also can't be used in all content.

    Discarding the bear in favour of another ultimate is still not viable. Madgden DPS drops even further without the bear (even with all the buffs to passives). The bear is also the only way to proc the Master Architect 5pc bonus. This is the ONLY group utility a magicka warden provides (sad, I know).

    I'd agree with your opening sentence.
  • Ermiq
    Ermiq
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    Although I don't like the nerf, I'm glad ZOS started to make warden less dependant on the bear.
    The bear is awful. It annoys me, it goes into my character so the character turns into some kind of centaur with bear body, it steps onto the dead bodies and lootable objects so the "Press E to interact" doesn't pop up.
    One of the two of us definitely has gone mad. It only remains to define whether this one is the world or me.

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  • max_only
    max_only
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    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/438173/smokey-the-bear-needs-your-help

    I tried to get the Sorc lobby on our side, but they’re rather self absorbed.

    Here is the official Zos answer and it’s not good enough imho.
    We reduced the damage of bear so we could buff the base damage of Wardens; the overall DPS should be within 1-2% of what it was before due to the buff of Advanced Species. This means anyone who doesn't use the bear will see less of a DPS loss.

    From this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/435756/why-nerfing-the-bear
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  • MooseKnuckles88
    MooseKnuckles88
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    Magdens rely too heavily on the bear with the tools in their kit which I've never really liked that part but the alternative was less dps without the bear, so I dealt with it.

    The devs could fix some of the bear missing dps by just putting in more dmg in fetcher infection that way stamdens aren't buffed even further, as it is fetcher infection cost was increased making stamdens even further from really using that skill. Or put more dmg in winters revenge.

    I like the idea that they are trying to make wardens less bear dependent, but do make an EVEN SPLIT in terms of dps between now AND Murkmire at the least especially since magdens in particular have been on the bottom for ever. Like others have said time and time again the general eso culture says no pets for trials regardless of what ZoS says about team leader judgement. As for wardens, until the bear can provide legit undeniable usage in a group setting the bear will have to stay home to watch the big game.
    Edited by MooseKnuckles88 on October 1, 2018 12:03PM
  • Donny_Vito
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    Thank goodness. Those bears are super annoying in BGs. Hopefully we see less of them now.
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    I agree with the intent of the change, to make Warden DPS less dependent on the bear. However the rest of the Warden’s toolkit was not buffed nearly enough to make up for this 30% nerf to the bear.

    We asked about this during the meeting, but what kind dps are you guys getting on pts?
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  • Arciris
    Arciris
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    Glurin wrote: »
    Glurin wrote: »
    To help ease my mind and maybe give some closure to myself and others who may feel the same way, I'd love some feedback about why such a change is going into effect.

    They nerfed the bear so that they can buff other things, bringing warden base damage up and reducing the DPS gap between using the bear and using some other ultimate, which in turn makes the warden less reliant on the bear.

    You can argue all day long whether or not that is good or bad, but that's the reasoning behind the nerf.

    The problem is that destro ultimate builds still aren't even close to competitive with other classes. The bear is the only way to hit competitive DPS, and just barely at that, on a static targer dummy.

    Oh it's more than that. Those buffs that were mentioned? You pretty much have to just slot a bunch of the animal skills to see them.

    Yeah.....

    JVEDtqD.jpg

    Septikal Bear, is septikal (I wish there was big cats skins though, at least, I used to wish that when I was planning on going feral Guardian)

    And yes, most of the buff given to warden requires slotting Animal Companion abilities (now +3% damage done from 2% for each)
  • Raammzzaa
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    The bear still looks really cool though, am I right?! Yogi is always on my bar whenever I’m passing through Riften, or for naked fishing. ;)
  • Xoelarasizerer
    Xoelarasizerer
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    All ZoS need to do in my books is put the Bear and Sorc Combat Pets on a single skill bar to work and not make them both bars mandatory to keep up, exactly like Mend Wounds/Mend Spirit/Symbiosis.
    Edited by Xoelarasizerer on October 1, 2018 4:15PM
  • MooseKnuckles88
    MooseKnuckles88
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    I agree the initial image of the warden was the iconic bear, I actually do like the bear.
    What I don't like about the bear is how dps reliant wardens are on the bear. In my honest opinion, the bear should not be 100% dps oriented, it should offer buffs or debuffs to help make the warden stronger in a fight, not do the fight for the warden. If the devs let the bear be the provider for minor toughness, then I predict a huge out cry for bears, but since the bear are exclusively dps oriented then it'll just be a back and forth between buff or nerf dps circle.

    If going through with bears getting slapped 30% dps reduction then consider:

    +Add % dps to bear execute
    +Add dps to swarm
    +Add dps to Impaling Shards
    +Add % dps to piercing cold passive

    All these (except bear execute) would buff magden and not really stamden.

    Or leave everything as is and just reduce bear dps by 15% instead of 30%.

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