[Class Reps] Meeting Notes - September 25

MooseKnuckles88

Still no explanation for why the need for a 30% dps reduction on the bear for the second time. Was even stated that your own dps tests were lower than expected. Perhaps the missing dps from the bear has something to do with that?!?!?! It's not like I even completely oppose the idea of nerfing the bear with the new added changes coming, I think 15% bear dmg reduction would have been a better place to start.

Good job fixing the shield issue though

FrancisCrawford

Azurya wrote: »

Getting so tiered of re-gearing characters
getting sick of re-skilling my chars
it is sad that "balancing" leads always and anytime to causing stress

we want to have fun while playing the game
WE WANT TO PLAY
WE DON`T WANT TO RE-DO EVERYTHING 4-TIMES A YEAR

WE WANT TO HAVE FUN, just FUN, can you get that in your head????

We'll have fun, fun, fun
'til Wrobel takes the skillbar awaaaay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDHErN3dOkc

LordSlif

revert shield time duration

BaylorCorvette

Juhasow wrote: »

I would preffer Air Overload over Air Atronach on stamsorc.

Aliyavana wrote: »

please make a stamina overload. A stamina atronach sounds like it would be immobile and wouldn't fit our playstyle in pvp

THIS.

I feel Air Atronach would be useless in PvP. Especially the way OL light attacks weave on PTS right now. I like it, just need to scale better (stam morph). Furthermore, a StamSorc plays on mobility and an Air Atronach goes directly against that play style.

OrphanHelgen

This gave me hope again

coplannb16_ESO

Bevik wrote: »

I have 11k HP unbuffed on my pet sorc whithout any pets summoned, empowered ward gives me 17k shield. This is OP. Shields can't stay like that. 40% trade off is understandable. If the add resistances to that 17k shield then it is like 2 players HPs and resistances you have alone. Be real, shields are OP on live. 7k shield give or take with 17kish HP is really good, with Ebon, Warden buffs it is just going higher. Take this or add back the cast time.

its not when normal dungeon mobs deal 8+K per hit... and you will get hit, multiple times as tanks do not have aoe taunt as in every other MMO.

Minno

Krymzonbladez wrote: »

40% Hp shield? That's ridiculous and nearly pointless, almost as bad as leaving the cast time. You're ignoring the fact that dps have low HP, it's not a Choice of wanting to be a glass cannon, it's having to be a glass cannon to meet the dps requirements for vet and trials content. Without the proper dps you can't get past certain dmg thresholds needed to actually FOLLOW the mechanics properly. IT's not about the top 5-10% it's about everyone you're ignoring that as a whole. Not everyone has perfect parses or knows how to parse properly. Doing these of testing dummies is also pointless as it's static, you should be doing these in trials and vets and pvp instances then go from there, not going by static target dummies that have no mechanics to follow. It's not just about Sorcs either, all magicka based dps classes use light armor for the passives gained to sustain and crit and so forth, they are essential to keep your sustain up and your dps constant. With this I'll have to use more than one shield on my bars, taking away a scarce ability slot, that's already hard to fill properly due to skills to increase dps because of their passives such as inner light and so forth. These idiots need to actually PLAY the game and content rather than just come up with stuff off the top of their heads they THINK is causing an issue.

Honestly, I wish my templar shield scaled off max mag with a cap of 40% max health lol.

grannas211

Minno wrote: »

Krymzonbladez wrote: »

40% Hp shield? That's ridiculous and nearly pointless, almost as bad as leaving the cast time. You're ignoring the fact that dps have low HP, it's not a Choice of wanting to be a glass cannon, it's having to be a glass cannon to meet the dps requirements for vet and trials content. Without the proper dps you can't get past certain dmg thresholds needed to actually FOLLOW the mechanics properly. IT's not about the top 5-10% it's about everyone you're ignoring that as a whole. Not everyone has perfect parses or knows how to parse properly. Doing these of testing dummies is also pointless as it's static, you should be doing these in trials and vets and pvp instances then go from there, not going by static target dummies that have no mechanics to follow. It's not just about Sorcs either, all magicka based dps classes use light armor for the passives gained to sustain and crit and so forth, they are essential to keep your sustain up and your dps constant. With this I'll have to use more than one shield on my bars, taking away a scarce ability slot, that's already hard to fill properly due to skills to increase dps because of their passives such as inner light and so forth. These idiots need to actually PLAY the game and content rather than just come up with stuff off the top of their heads they THINK is causing an issue.

Honestly, I wish my templar shield scaled off max mag with a cap of 40% max health lol.

Because templars struggle to heal themselves.

tmbrinks

I have only perused the thread, so I apologize if this had already been discussed, but I don't think it had.

I am content with the changes in shields. They are instant cast (so you can survive getting hit). They provide some protection, but are not so overpowered that you can just ignore mechanics.

For those complaining about vCR +3, the orb dot can be blocked (if you don't have a shield up) (if you do have a shield up it still puts the DOT on you, it should be blockable, but I don't know if this is a bug or if it is intended) or it can be roll-dodged to avoid the DOT, hence dps actually having to do a couple extra mechanics of that fight, instead of just sitting there and parsing. As a kite healer in vCR +3, I'm not standing in the stacks of healing springs that the DDs are in, so I have to try and avoid the DOT, particularly in the painfully unlucky case I get hit by all 3 (only a 1/64 chance, but with how much I've run it... it happens). Roll dodging, and blocking (without a shield now) helps save me, the DDs can be asked to do the same on occasion when the massive amounts of damage are going out. Those are the mechanics, mechanics are what makes the game fun! I actually prefer to do the kite healing over the group healing or being a DD, it's honestly boring to me that I can ignore most of those mechanics.

I am curious on how they're going to scale the shields now... as there'd be no reason not to run Harness Magicka over Dampen Magicka, since Harness magicka will already give me my 40% of my health, and then return magicka, where as Dampen Magicka (unless the new benefit would be in increase the shield cap, as I've seen discussed) would be over the cap for me (and I main a healer, so I run a smaller magicka pool than most DDs, so my shields are weaker)

Cast times would have been terrible... I think this change could be what they are looking for in making DDs do a little more mechanics, have a little less survivability, and to make healing a little more rewardable in end-game content. I don't think it'll change anything in 4 man content, as good DDs can just blast their way through it still (and would have even with the cast time). I'll withhold my final judgement until we see exactly how the shields are going to scale with the passives, the skill abilities, with resistances, and with the champion points. But I think this is a step in the correct direction.

OrphanHelgen

Krymzonbladez wrote: »

40% Hp shield? That's ridiculous and nearly pointless, almost as bad as leaving the cast time. You're ignoring the fact that dps have low HP, it's not a Choice of wanting to be a glass cannon, it's having to be a glass cannon to meet the dps requirements for vet and trials content. Without the proper dps you can't get past certain dmg thresholds needed to actually FOLLOW the mechanics properly. IT's not about the top 5-10% it's about everyone you're ignoring that as a whole. Not everyone has perfect parses or knows how to parse properly. Doing these of testing dummies is also pointless as it's static, you should be doing these in trials and vets and pvp instances then go from there, not going by static target dummies that have no mechanics to follow. It's not just about Sorcs either, all magicka based dps classes use light armor for the passives gained to sustain and crit and so forth, they are essential to keep your sustain up and your dps constant. With this I'll have to use more than one shield on my bars, taking away a scarce ability slot, that's already hard to fill properly due to skills to increase dps because of their passives such as inner light and so forth. These idiots need to actually PLAY the game and content rather than just come up with stuff off the top of their heads they THINK is causing an issue.

If you have a proper tank, you can be a glass cannon without a shield. Only thing killing you then is the aoe damage. You can either step out of it, or take that 40% hp shield and live with it. Options also are ebon and getting the major resolve and ward. It really should be enough to survive. Also remember shields have the ressistance now so they will last longer due to that as well. Your complain is so un intelligent, it's awkward to see how many agreed with your post. I hope zos listen to class reps only and not some random noob like you, this triggered me so hard.

Bevik

coplannb16_ESO wrote: »

Bevik wrote: »

I have 11k HP unbuffed on my pet sorc whithout any pets summoned, empowered ward gives me 17k shield. This is OP. Shields can't stay like that. 40% trade off is understandable. If the add resistances to that 17k shield then it is like 2 players HPs and resistances you have alone. Be real, shields are OP on live. 7k shield give or take with 17kish HP is really good, with Ebon, Warden buffs it is just going higher. Take this or add back the cast time.

its not when normal dungeon mobs deal 8+K per hit... and you will get hit, multiple times as tanks do not have aoe taunt as in every other MMO.

So the problem is somewhere else then.

The_Brosteen

Juhasow wrote: »

I would preffer Air Overload over Air Atronach on stamsorc.

Would be cool if there was both.

And a physical damage streak morph

Lorem123

Cap of 40% of max health for Conjure Ward and Annullment just lmao. Stam running bone shield will have almost bigger shields, more dps, and more survaivability (due to higher resistances from medium armor).

Goratesque

So can you finally buff Bone Shield's damage shield on self from 30% to 40% now?

BUT please, don't even think to make this change in exchange of nerfing the amount of Bone Wall synergy's shield on group.

Merlin13KAGL

Nightblade tanking was centered on Tavas and that is going away. In general, it’s probably a good thing not to have classes depend on a single set of gear,

This would have some measure of validity if there had been even the slightest change in tank sets in the past three years.

Volckodav

I would like to thanks all of our representative for the great work, MERCI!

That being said I am really surprised about this time running out issues during the meeting.
As a QA lead and support team myself I can tell that listen to your client is the MOST important things to do, and when they arrived with so good prepared report you take the time NEEDED and not the 1h planning time as always.
if you need 1more hour lets do it!
What else the dev has to do in this extra needed time than listen and talk, exchange with class reps? this meeting is not every day, I think 1 time per month, so really especially when dev decided to make the big change (cast time etc..), of course, they need to plan a bigger meeting with the class rep.

And in general I love ESO, playing since the beta, but I feel that there is more and more rush to go deliver a ton of contents and things...that are not as good as they should be.
I will really appreciate less content, maybe less release, but at least 1 time per year stop, log at your backlog, and do a bug/fix/quality of life only release ONLY.

All the team working on that, only. Maybe this is not a thing that you will sell tomorrow, yes, but it will help keep your player happy in the long run and keep your game as good as it should to this is an investment for the future.

Thorstienn

I think this format is Better than the "pain points" dot list. Finally can get a better picture of the "idea" The devs are trying to accomplish. In saying that, I feel a lot of these issues could better handled by just putting in hard caps.

Daentalion

I was not a fan of cast time on shields, but if they're removing the cast time I feel like they should also remove the other changes. Even if you can crit them now, the fact that resistances are applied to shields too will probably overall reduce the damage done to shields. I hope I'm wrong, but this sounds more of a buff than a nerf to me now.

Also, the average health of a light armor build in Cyrodiil is something like 22k - 23k (that's my health in Cyrodiil on my magsorc with no sets that buff health), which means the cap to 40% of your max health does not much for PvP, as 40% of 22k is 8.8k, which becomes 4.4k with Battle Spirit, which should be the average size of shields already (unless you use Necropotence basically).

Tommy_The_Gun

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Annulment and Conjured Ward will now be instant-cast abilities that scale off your maximum Magicka (as they do on live currently), but cap the total shield amount to 40% of your character’s maximum health

A couple of questions:
1." total shield amount to 40% of your character’s maximum health". Ok, so lets say that I have 20K health. 40% means that I can have 8K shields. Does that mean that there is a "global" cap for shield so if I cast some dmg shield skills I will never go above 8K shield ? Or is it just 8K per dmg shield skill ?
2. How are sets that provide dmg shield work ? For example Para Bellum Set:
"(5 items) Gain a damage shield that absorbs 12040 damage if you have not taken any damage in the last 10 seconds."
If I am only "allowed" to have 8K shields & Para Bellum set gives 12040.. will sets "ignore" dmg shield cap ?

Juhasow

Lorem123 wrote: »

Cap of 40% of max health for Conjure Ward and Annullment just lmao. Stam running bone shield will have almost bigger shields, more dps, and more survaivability (due to higher resistances from medium armor).

Actually stam builds having acces to bone shield/vigor/Major Evasion and more resistances will have higher survivality , DPS and thanks for absorb stamina enchantment changes also better sustain then magicka builds. Not everywhere of course but still it looks kinda silly how they missed certain things that will happen when 2 highest shields will get nerfed by over 50%.

The problem is that they're still trying lazy solutions that would not involve too much work to implement.

jaws343

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Krymzonbladez wrote: »

40% Hp shield? That's ridiculous and nearly pointless, almost as bad as leaving the cast time. You're ignoring the fact that dps have low HP, it's not a Choice of wanting to be a glass cannon, it's having to be a glass cannon to meet the dps requirements for vet and trials content. Without the proper dps you can't get past certain dmg thresholds needed to actually FOLLOW the mechanics properly. IT's not about the top 5-10% it's about everyone you're ignoring that as a whole. Not everyone has perfect parses or knows how to parse properly. Doing these of testing dummies is also pointless as it's static, you should be doing these in trials and vets and pvp instances then go from there, not going by static target dummies that have no mechanics to follow. It's not just about Sorcs either, all magicka based dps classes use light armor for the passives gained to sustain and crit and so forth, they are essential to keep your sustain up and your dps constant. With this I'll have to use more than one shield on my bars, taking away a scarce ability slot, that's already hard to fill properly due to skills to increase dps because of their passives such as inner light and so forth. These idiots need to actually PLAY the game and content rather than just come up with stuff off the top of their heads they THINK is causing an issue.

If you have a proper tank, you can be a glass cannon without a shield. Only thing killing you then is the aoe damage. You can either step out of it, or take that 40% hp shield and live with it. Options also are ebon and getting the major resolve and ward. It really should be enough to survive. Also remember shields have the ressistance now so they will last longer due to that as well. Your complain is so un intelligent, it's awkward to see how many agreed with your post. I hope zos listen to class reps only and not some random noob like you, this triggered me so hard.

Note to self, just step out of the fire AOE in Asylum or Starfall. Got it.

SirCritical

Simple complain (I'm tired of this, all): restore Arctic Blast to it's current live form, it's absolutely no need to gut it.

OrphanHelgen

jaws343 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Krymzonbladez wrote: »

40% Hp shield? That's ridiculous and nearly pointless, almost as bad as leaving the cast time. You're ignoring the fact that dps have low HP, it's not a Choice of wanting to be a glass cannon, it's having to be a glass cannon to meet the dps requirements for vet and trials content. Without the proper dps you can't get past certain dmg thresholds needed to actually FOLLOW the mechanics properly. IT's not about the top 5-10% it's about everyone you're ignoring that as a whole. Not everyone has perfect parses or knows how to parse properly. Doing these of testing dummies is also pointless as it's static, you should be doing these in trials and vets and pvp instances then go from there, not going by static target dummies that have no mechanics to follow. It's not just about Sorcs either, all magicka based dps classes use light armor for the passives gained to sustain and crit and so forth, they are essential to keep your sustain up and your dps constant. With this I'll have to use more than one shield on my bars, taking away a scarce ability slot, that's already hard to fill properly due to skills to increase dps because of their passives such as inner light and so forth. These idiots need to actually PLAY the game and content rather than just come up with stuff off the top of their heads they THINK is causing an issue.

If you have a proper tank, you can be a glass cannon without a shield. Only thing killing you then is the aoe damage. You can either step out of it, or take that 40% hp shield and live with it. Options also are ebon and getting the major resolve and ward. It really should be enough to survive. Also remember shields have the ressistance now so they will last longer due to that as well. Your complain is so un intelligent, it's awkward to see how many agreed with your post. I hope zos listen to class reps only and not some random noob like you, this triggered me so hard.

Note to self, just step out of the fire AOE in Asylum or Starfall. Got it.

You died from a 40% shield while having major resolve and ward up during this? Was the damage mitigated by minor maim? Was it a oneshot?
L2P

jaws343

Daentalion wrote: »

I was not a fan of cast time on shields, but if they're removing the cast time I feel like they should also remove the other changes. Even if you can crit them now, the fact that resistances are applied to shields too will probably overall reduce the damage done to shields. I hope I'm wrong, but this sounds more of a buff than a nerf to me now.

Also, the average health of a light armor build in Cyrodiil is something like 22k - 23k (that's my health in Cyrodiil on my magsorc with no sets that buff health), which means the cap to 40% of your max health does not much for PvP, as 40% of 22k is 8.8k, which becomes 4.4k with Battle Spirit, which should be the average size of shields already (unless you use Necropotence basically).

Well that is just flat out wrong. Take Hardened Ward for example. A 40K mag build specced fully into Bastion will probably give you a shield strength in PVE around 25K. In PVP, after Battle Spirit, that shield is now a 12.5K shield. So this new 4.4K shield is 8K less than live. And the live 12.5K shield is melted as quick as you can put it on.

And that is in CP, take CP out, and that 40K mag build is looking at 36-37K mag, with a sub 20K hardened ward in PVE and 10K in PVP. But they also have no extra CP in defenses to bolster their now 4.4K shield, so the 10K shield that melts even quicker in BGs is a waste of magicka to cast if it is only 4.4K.

ManDraKE

Quantum_V wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

So people is finally getting away with nerfing forward momentum? The argument that foward momentum makes heavy armor more mobile than medium is absurd, the problem is not heavy armor or forward momentum, the problem is that medium armor SUCKS. The passives are medicore, shuffle is ***, the lack of resistences&healing&health compared to heavy doesn't work in the current burst meta, the only effective medium builds atm are with impregnable, and the only reason they work is because impregnable is broken af. The solution is not a nerf to forward momentum, is a buff to medium armor, starting with shuffle and with that useless stealth passive that is a waste of skill points.

Stamblades being more effective as brawler now is the result of the change of meta. Old nighblade playstyle doesn't work, medium is ***, the game is full of undoggeable things, people is hitting really hard, etc. Also there is nothing wrong with being able to play an effective brawler, i'm not interested in being forced to run a roly poly build again, specially on this meta.

Dimishh returns for stacking movement speed bonuses is something i've suggested since the whole swift drama started. Is the logical choice for solving this. Nerfing major expedition would be really dumb.

I couldn't avoid laughting when i read the magDK part, they can't deal with bleads and defiles? lol. The self healing of the magDKs is insane, is absurd how much healing you can get on a magDK even while going full ofensive. Get real, if the magDKs lacks healing then i will make a post saying that stamblades lacks damage lol.

Hey @ManDraKE!

I would highly encourage you to read the post again.

No one said that mdks healing is bad, it was said that they have an unproportional hard time dealing with defiles - that’s a completely different argument. Careful to not fall into the scarecrow fallacy. Taking the most common playstyles into consideration:

-Both templars possess purge.
- Magsorcs have shields, so basically ignore defiles.
- Nightblades can cloak to mitigate damage and partially heal while clocked, as defiles aren’t an issue in a vacuum.
-Most of the stamina classes are mobile enough to avoid a lot of damage, specially with swift currently. Yet they are obviously also affected by defiles.

That essentially leaves DKs to take defiles entirely. Even though DKs have great healing (which noone is debating against) having them cut by 80% negates that, thus the point being made about defiles.

Everyone is affected by defiles, thats for sure. But defiles were buffed to the point to where they are right now to essentially nerf tanks, which have common defense mechanisms as those as dk. So it is reasonable to assume that they arguably get affected the hardest by that change.

Hopefully I was able to clarify some points!

Have a good one!

In general the only counters to bleeds are purge (templars) and cloak (nighblades), and cloak isn`t the perfect counter neither because when you are going offensive the bleeds are still putting pressure on you, in this scenario cloak is mostly to being able to reset if *** is hitting the fan. For any other class, the counter for bleeds and defile is basicaly stacking healing, and my point was the mDK already has really good healing. I'm not saying that mDK are inmune to bleeds or something like that, but imo they don´t suffer bleeds more than other classes. In the past that argument was true, mDK lacked healing and defiles where out of control, but in the current patch that´s no longer the case.
That being said, is just easier to nerf the master's DW than buffing classes to being able to handle bleeds builds using it lol. Bleeds builds are really empowered by the extra DoT damage of the master´s DW

The argument of eating the entire defile duration is true to some extend, but as yuou said, for other classes is the same, even if you are avoiding other direct damage by being mobile you are still being affected by defiles and bleeds. And with the latest changes to defile duration and defile sets, the problem of being perma heal-debuff is not as near as relevant as before

Anken5

Let players choose betwenn two morphs, cast or hp cap, seems really the best solution. Some sorcs like me prefer the cast with a full shield.

And he would make more sens to add the cast to hardened ward, because its the stronger shield.

pelle412

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Wrapping Up:
We ended on DPS parses and we wish we had more than 3 minutes to continue this conversation as it finally got to the heart of many “pain points” the community has. In terms of damage output, at least when it comes to a target dummy parse, we did acknowledge the classes are relatively close to each other (especially Stamina). So from the perspective of a class not being allowed to a trial raid, that is the fault of an uniformed raid lead, rather than the damage capability of a class.

This gave me a chuckle.

jaws343

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Krymzonbladez wrote: »

40% Hp shield? That's ridiculous and nearly pointless, almost as bad as leaving the cast time. You're ignoring the fact that dps have low HP, it's not a Choice of wanting to be a glass cannon, it's having to be a glass cannon to meet the dps requirements for vet and trials content. Without the proper dps you can't get past certain dmg thresholds needed to actually FOLLOW the mechanics properly. IT's not about the top 5-10% it's about everyone you're ignoring that as a whole. Not everyone has perfect parses or knows how to parse properly. Doing these of testing dummies is also pointless as it's static, you should be doing these in trials and vets and pvp instances then go from there, not going by static target dummies that have no mechanics to follow. It's not just about Sorcs either, all magicka based dps classes use light armor for the passives gained to sustain and crit and so forth, they are essential to keep your sustain up and your dps constant. With this I'll have to use more than one shield on my bars, taking away a scarce ability slot, that's already hard to fill properly due to skills to increase dps because of their passives such as inner light and so forth. These idiots need to actually PLAY the game and content rather than just come up with stuff off the top of their heads they THINK is causing an issue.

If you have a proper tank, you can be a glass cannon without a shield. Only thing killing you then is the aoe damage. You can either step out of it, or take that 40% hp shield and live with it. Options also are ebon and getting the major resolve and ward. It really should be enough to survive. Also remember shields have the ressistance now so they will last longer due to that as well. Your complain is so un intelligent, it's awkward to see how many agreed with your post. I hope zos listen to class reps only and not some random noob like you, this triggered me so hard.

Note to self, just step out of the fire AOE in Asylum or Starfall. Got it.

You died from a 40% shield while having major resolve and ward up during this? Was the damage mitigated by minor maim? Was it a oneshot?
L2P

Have you ever played Asylum? It really doesn't sound like you know what you are talking about when you are asking if it is a oneshot.

Even on normal, with a 25K shield, One fire phase melts the shield completely. Reduce that 25K shield to 8K and add a few resistances, maybe that shield acts like a 15K shield if you are lucky. So still, on normal, the fire phase is completely eliminating the shield and now it's eating into your health.

And keeping Major resistances up on a sorc... lol. Sure I'll just spam 4,000 magicka skill on cooldown on a class that already has huge issues with sustain. I'm sure my magicka won't suffer...

nemvar

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

I would preffer Air Overload over Air Atronach on stamsorc.

Aliyavana wrote: »

please make a stamina overload. A stamina atronach sounds like it would be immobile and wouldn't fit our playstyle in pvp

THIS.

I feel Air Atronach would be useless in PvP. Especially the way OL light attacks weave on PTS right now. I like it, just need to scale better (stam morph). Furthermore, a StamSorc plays on mobility and an Air Atronach goes directly against that play style.

I really like the idea that the atronach is basically fixed on the players position and attacks independently from the player with melee attacks. That way you can still be mobile and have an entity that attacks seperatly from you. It would also count as a pet for itemization and flavour purposes but that is not really a big deal.

The atronach would be stunned if you are stunned but cannot be targeted directly. While active you gain minor beserk. Duration: 12 seconds.

_Ahala_

Why is their such a resistance at zos to giving Magden some dps morphs in the winters embrace tree... as it currently stands Magden is just a Stamden using the wrong morphs... it’s just not unique because it only has 6 damaging abilities which is around half of the number available to the other classes and the 2 (lol) that are Magden specific are just bad in PvP... the one tree dps, one tree tank, and one healing tree concept, while it’s working for Stamden, is just not working for Magden as they just don’t have the same variety of weapon abilities that stam does