The future of Sorc Healers

Tasear

As a class rep, I can only convey concerns, so I start thread for something that concerns me deeply and I feel other players should discuss on.

The overload changes destory a build I have shared with community for years and put in countless hours to test ideas and share variations. By taking away the third bar you leave Sorc Healers without options or balance.

Negate
This isn't a good support ultimate as the effects hardly work in content. Why because you have to time it pricelessly right for it have any impact. I have tested it and the stun doesn't work even on at some non elite trash mobs.

Pets take two bar and now Sorcs only have 2 bars. This makes them provide - minus utility compared to other 4 classes of healers. Let's not forget pet still can die and likely needs a shield.

On that note the shield changes ...one sec cast time with will cause additional struggles with maintain the pet pet in gameplay situation where you won't hay a second to respond to changes.

Other things 10% Magicka regain doesn't add up correctly ..in fact hircine used to provide stamit regain but gave cost reduction instead because math didn't add up to useful support to teamates ... especially damage dealers where the gain is not noticable.

Storm annotach can't be used by healers as it only supports 1 Ally and healers have to think about the team.

A side note overload now does less damage so healers will lack in this too.

Disclaimer: As a class rep, I only convey pain points and how it affects player's. Also things things are issues I advocated before in a 7 page document for all Healers. Aa your class rep I do my best to not be biased on class, role or spec and as such as time allows I will review others conceey spoken and speak out for other players and their concerns.

P.S we have a class meeting with devs next week so please yell, scream, cry, and calmly share all concerns that both you with one of your 12 class reps.

WrathOfInnos

Thank you for posting this. I’m not sure how I feel about the new overload for DPS, but you are right that it is a big nerf for Sorc healers.

I am very concerned about the 1s cast time for shields, for all Magicka characters. It is implied that they expect rotational shielding, instead of reactive shielding. This is exactly the opposite of the reason given when shield duration was reduced from 20s to 6s. Keeping a buff up is not nearly as fun or rewarding as using something when needed, or reactive gameplay. Not to mention that using something that takes 2 GCD’s that frequently makes a big difference on what other skills you can fit into a rotation (DPS or healing).

Please pass on these concerns. There are plenty of ways shields could be nerfed, and the crit change is acceptable, but the cast time is just painful.

Thraben

As one of the few other MagSorc healers, I completely agree.

Making Overload something akin to the Psijik heal toggle is a huge mistake. I even stopped using the latter because the toggle was EVEN MORE clunky than OL.

They should have reworked the atronach, but SOMEONE of the class reps had the OL rework brought to the attention (obviously neither you nor my own guild master), and it should have been clear to everyone what that meant.

Additionally, in so many years as a healer, I have never complained about a Sorc using hardened ward, but often enough about some Noobsorc with 14k life getting a onehit by a deadrat just because they DIDN´T use hardened ward. Using us healers a justification for the shield nerf is just unfair.

shaielzafine

I've seen your build @Tasear and I have tried using it. It's good. I liked it for dungeons, although in trials I use my own build that doesn't involve overload bar and has different abilities slotted. I think the changes they're making to sorc and damage shields is a big deal. I hope you tell them what you already posted here to ZOS as a class rep. Since you're also the healer rep, what do you think about the nerf to warhorn? I personally don't think it's a needed nerf to remove minor toughness. Please tell them about that too!

lassitershawn

Overload change is terrible. Please revert.

Tasear

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349428/sorcerer-healer-collection-wolf-hunter-updated-new-build-added-for-wolf-hunter#latest

Above is 3 years of work

We still have meeting coming up and we were told pts is for testing as such implied things can change, but we do have to show why our concerns are important.

CaptainVenom

Tasear wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349428/sorcerer-healer-collection-wolf-hunter-updated-new-build-added-for-wolf-hunter#latest

We still have meeting coming up and we were told pts is for testing as such implied things can change, but we do have to show why our concerns are important.

If they refuse, at least tell them to add a class change token... so we can move to another class and be happy.

FrancisCrawford

Sorcerer healing is headed to a terrible place.

• The class burst heal takes two skill slots.
• The skill giving Major Ward/Resolve has much less utility for healers/groups than the respective skills doing that for templars or wardens ... and with the changes to shields, Major Ward/Resolve are much more important than they were before.
• Liquid Lightning is awesome, but it isn't a reason to heal on sorcerers; templars, nightblades and wardens each have great class DPS skills too.
• Wardens, templars and nightblades all have better sustain than sorcerers.

ruikkarikun

Tasear wrote: »

P.S we have a class meeting with devs next week so please yell, scream, cry, and calmly share all concerns that both you with one of your 12 class reps.

Ask devs to complete veteran Maelstorm Arena with 300-400 CP on Mag sorc. I want to see how they will handle 1 sec (3-4 sec in real game now in PTS) shield cast delay.

Also ask them about cyrodil lag and shield delay.

But at the end It's like trolling from them no? Cloak, vigor, evasion, etc etc ect are instant cast abilities.

Cast time delay niot comfortable, stupid even for roleplay casual style game. (Agai it's about PVE). Save at least PVE if you want to ruin PVP sorc. Otherwise tell them they will lose people who buy dlcs and crowns, because it's just trolling (making casual playing not comfortable (yes, yes shield in pve is a must for survive))

At the end really, ask them for insant cast or class will be dead to a big part of the community.

LadyNalcarya

I'm afraid I will be banned if I tell you what I think about these "balance changes".
I appreciate your efforts, it seems like you're taking your role seriously, but at this point it looks like Wrobel and co are just trolling us.

DarcyMardin

I can live with everything else. But not with the 1 second cast time on Annulment and Ward. I’m primarily a magicka player and a healer (Templar, warden and sorc) and this nerf is going to cripple my builds, especially for more difficult content.

Didgerion

Looks like ZOS went against class reps advises.

Whats the point having class reps then?

gabriebe

You guys should all get up and leave.

ezio45

Not fond of the overload changes as a dps sorc either,

the heavy attack will never be competitive
i dont see much reason to spam the light as part of attack weaving in pve, compared to a destro i can throw down and continue my rotation
and this completely destroys the sorc gank build, i dont see why nb and anyone with a bow should be able to gank but not a sorc

Thraben

Didgerion wrote: »

Looks like ZOS went against class reps advises.

Whats the point having class reps then?

In that case, they did not. The OL changes have been on the "suggestion" list. Of course, it was horribly naive to put them there.

code65536

After the disaster of Morrowind, I didn't think ZOS would be able to put out a patch that's even worse. I was proven wrong today.

Jaimeh

Thank you @Tasear for your post--even though I don't heal with my sorc (I have a dps and a tank) I really appreciate how you are at least trying to think how the class will go forward with these changes in a constructive way. Besides the change to shields, which is a bit unthinkable, I was also really sad to read about Overload. Yes, sorcs had a unique third bar, but sorcs also have the most need for double barring skills, therefore it made sense for them to have an extra utility bar. And it's not like having a third bar is a completely risk-free perk; swapping back and forth can be risky, mess up rotations, etc. If the devs wanted sorcs not to have a third bar so they are on par with other classes, then they should do something about the need to double bar pets as well. Anyway, your continued effort to bridge the discussions is very much appreciated!

CP5

One thing I noticed is while empowered ward got its duration increased, the magick regen buff it gives did not, meaning you have to recast your shield more often than you would expect and with the 1s cast time I know full well it would likely happen at the worst of times.

Tasear

Thraben wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Looks like ZOS went against class reps advises.

Whats the point having class reps then?

In that case, they did not. The OL changes have been on the "suggestion" list. Of course, it was horribly naive to put them there.

Yes to be fair it was mentioned in multiple instances that overload isn't being used by Sorc dps. On that same token the healer things were mentioned for along with some players having trouble switching.

No where was it suggestioned to remove the third bar. Now yes ultimate issue was reported and fixed in wolf Hunter.

Also for the record we share concerns and combat changes are done by combat team. Right now class reps are now also tasked with listening to results of their feedback. Why doesn't it work. Why does it work. What are you happy about? What are you concerned about?

pauli133

I just want a way to build a viable sorc healer without pets.

Tasear

empowered ward got its duration increased, the magick regen buff it gives did not, meaning you have to recast your shield more often than you would expect and with the 1s cast time and during that cast time you might need to react to heal allies or pet might die.

Tasear

pauli133 wrote: »

I just want a way to build a viable sorc healer without pets.

What do is stopping that from happening?

Numerikuu

Tasear wrote: »

empowered ward got its duration increased, the magick regen buff it gives did not, meaning you have to recast your shield more often than you would expect and with the 1s cast time and during that cast time you might need to react to heal allies or pet might die.

Only it's not 1s. Add on top server delays, lag and so on, it's more like 2-3 seconds. I can't even imagine what it's gonna be like for those with ping in the hundreds. Then there's the lag in Cydrodiil... Good bloody luck casting a shield during a zerg lmfao

shaielzafine

pauli133 wrote: »

I just want a way to build a viable sorc healer without pets.

You can, actually. I've finished vet Cloudrest+1 on a sorc healer without pets. I've done all craglorn HM's, AS and maw on it as well. I haven't bothered bringing sorc healer to vHOF because I'd rather bring my templar with ritual for extra purge & nova for damage mitigation. As for pet sorc healing, they're fine. The only place I wouldn't bring a pet sorc healer is vAS and vHOF on the last boss. The matriarch would just keep dying then.

Pevey

I completely agree with the OP.

EDIT: And might I add that in addition to killing sorc healers, cast times on shields also kill (the very few remaining) ice staff tanks deader than a door nail.

Morgul667

Overload 3rd bar loss feels wrong

Sorc Healer will struggle

Stam Sorc wil struggle

What the point ?

Anyway Stamsorc seems low on ZOS list as it gets nerfed further with Dark Deal and Overload changes (unless you play an overload stamsorc which I dislile but ... )

Ramber

You have used the same build for years?? Dam, i think its about time you were forced to change it lol. I have 7 max toons they have all had to change in the last few years to do max dps.

Tasear

Ramber wrote: »

You have used the same build for years?? Dam, i think its about time you were forced to change it lol. I have 7 max toons they have all had to change in the last few years to do max dps.

Not it's about deleting a specific playstyle. There's no option to change as I listed above the other options just don't work or aren't effective.

Kenndrah

I was really upset when I saw the changes, and even now that I'm trying to put a positive spin on it it's really difficult to be positive about two changes in particular. All my characters are sorcs, and I've just started levelling a dedicated healer because I enjoy sorc healing so much when I do it from my dps main.

The 1sec cast time on sheilds is a big deal. It might be something people with high skill levels and no latency can work around, but for the rest of us it's just so bad. I'm in Australia so with my latency reacting to anything in a timely maner is difficult. I like playing magsorc with sheilds because dodgerolling or blocking in time is hard for me. By the time I see it I have to react straight away and often it still isn't quick enough. The same can be said of anyone who is older or has any form of illness or disability that affects their response time. Sheilds makes this game playable for us. It feels like they've tried to fix sheild stacking in PvP and as a result have destroyed playstyle and survivability for a massive section of PvE players. If they want to prevent sheild stacking then simply make it so you can't stack sheilds.

I quite like the changes to sheilds about critting them and resistances applying, because I think this does balance things. It also forces light armour players into using impen in PvP. Also adding 1sec cast time feels like overkill. I don't PvP on a mag character (or play PvP that much at all) so maybe it does still need more, but at least test it out first to see if these changes alone are enough without the cast time.

Taking away the third bar with overload is also a real kick in the teeth. The first thing I thought was how it's going to kill sorc healers, because it's not like anybody else really uses overload much anyway. Are they trying to make it more viable for everyone to use? If so they really need to find a way to do that without nerfing sorc healers so hard. Taking away the unique and positive things a class can bring to a specific role is how we end back up in meta-land where it's Templar or gtfo.

I also don't see why the changes they're making to overload mean it can't still have a third bar. Surely, the changes to how the light attacks work on overload can still happen with a third bar. And there's no reason you can't also use weapon skills on the overload bar, but tbh I would happily not have access to weapon skills if that makes all the difference. Just keep the third bar, make it so you can weave light attacks, and don't let us have weapon skills on there. Now that the psijic line has a decent spamabble there's no reason that can't be used on an overload bar if you really want to use it to dps.

This really feels like they're removing two things that help make sorcs unique and viable.

Tannus15

When I read that overload light attacks could be weaved I was excited for the change, then I read the 3rd bar was being taken away and I realized that there is no point.

It's like bad empower.

Put the 3rd bar back so I can use it as my execute bar and i'll be excited for it.

Narvuntien

I have to rely pretty heavily on resto staff abilities to give the necessary utility to my group which pushes off a lot of class/guild abilities. Even with my overload bar I don't have space for mutagen what am I going to do now when I have 4 less abilities than I had before? I just don't know how I am going to be able to do my job.

Then I need to double bar the matriarch and I need to keep it alive for my 360o no scope healing. There is just so many mechanics that make pets a liability or useless and they are really dumb. The cast time on the shield probably means I am just going to have to drop it and try to rely on heals but my pet is now going to die a whole lot more and I losing that utility for my group.

Speaking of ultilty for the group the only thing I can provide as a sorc healer is that I have a passive that gives minor prophecy to the group, that got buffed, except I don't have any dark magic abilities I want to use (definitely not spam), at least none I have space for anymore. Dark deal is on my overload bar and I can't justify it without it.

I have used the Atronach for dungeons and it works well there but its not viable for trials as noted its only single target. But there is still no reason to use anything other than warhorn.