Why nerfing the Bear?

Zathras

zTrok wrote: »

MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »

zTrok wrote: »

Just so everyone knows, the bear is still pulling 3-4k higher than destro ulti on a 6mil. I've tested this very thuroughly so please tag me if you have questions.

And what were your dps results between magden currently in wolfhunter and magden in Murkmire pts?

In Wolfhunter I was hitting 45k and I have not been able to surpass 43k on Murkmire PTS.

I've used Necropotence, Master Architect, and Valkyn Skoria along with a vMA inferno when testing with bear.
Witchmother's Potent Brew was used in both tests as well.


On PTS only I tested the difference between bear and non-bear
When testing the difference between bear and nonbear I used; Mother's Sorrow, Siroria (non-perfected), and Valkyn Skoria. With the only difference between parses being me using bear and me using Northern Storm front and Destro back. With bear I pulled 42k (almost 43) and with destro I pulled 39k (almost 40)

Overall my testing used the same skill bars with exception being ultimate. I'm still testing to see if Subterranean Assault will make up for the seeming dps loss we have incurred this patch.

Do note all of this was self with self applied Ele Drain.

I really appreciate the data, and the effort to get those numbers. What concerns me, however, is that the devs are also solely using the target dummy, while not figuring in the AI and crappy pathing which drastically reduces those numbers.

In other words, a static object is very easily hit by the bear and you will see full numbers. A moving target, with terrain, applied stuns and whatnot, is the nemesis for the bear. You will not even approach the parse that a laboratory setting will give you.

That is why I am left wondering if they actually play the Warden. Dummy target =!= actual combat. They are proposing a 30% decrease in damage, based purely on a contrived setting.

max_only

Steady on! Fight for your bears!

TheGreatBlackBear

For all the so called buffs, warden rotation seems harder than ever now. Sure you can pull big numbers in a sterile testing environment , but is not exactly fun.

Zardayne

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

For all the so called buffs, warden rotation seems harder than ever now. Sure you can pull big numbers in a sterile testing environment , but is not exactly fun.

You're right it's not fun and our rotation remains clunky as hell.Long cast animation and 3 second wait for shalks to deploy, still have to double cast swarm (at an increased cost SMH), birds faster but still clunky, and buff hell..Magden is nowhere near as smooth as all of my other classes I play.

TheGreatBlackBear

Zardayne wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

For all the so called buffs, warden rotation seems harder than ever now. Sure you can pull big numbers in a sterile testing environment , but is not exactly fun.

You're right it's not fun and our rotation remains clunky as hell.Long cast animation and 3 second wait for shalks to deploy, still have to double cast swarm (at an increased cost SMH), birds faster but still clunky, and buff hell..Magden is nowhere near as smooth as all of my other classes I play.

And because shalks and cliff racer animations are so troublesome, more than likely they'll not be used. So that animal companions buff looks a lot less stellar with 6% dam loss from not slotting those two skills.

gro_drum

Making the bear an ultimate is basically stealing the second ultimate slot. I wish the pet remained active like other abilities switching back and forth and its really unfair to let the sorc have multiple pets when the warden has an animal line and not even one real pet... I think the entire pet line should be reworked... what kind of Warden forces his animals to suicide themselves? The monster sets and the werewolf line both have regular pets that don't suicide themselves how the f does the warden pet line not work in the same manner? The warden pets line should have at least a permanent tank, healer and damage (leave the netch and bear i guess) and they shouldn't disappear when you switch bars that is my opinion.

TheGreatBlackBear

gro_drum wrote: »

Making the bear an ultimate is basically stealing the second ultimate slot. I wish the pet remained active like other abilities switching back and forth and its really unfair to let the sorc have multiple pets when the warden has an animal line and not even one real pet... I think the entire pet line should be reworked... what kind of Warden forces his animals to suicide themselves? The monster sets and the werewolf line both have regular pets that don't suicide themselves how the f does the warden pet line not work in the same manner? The warden pets line should have at least a permanent tank, healer and damage (leave the netch and bear i guess) and they shouldn't disappear when you switch bars that is my opinion.

It's probably too late in the class for this but I'd like the idea of having bear ultis for each skill line. So like an ice bear running around grabbing agro or reducing damage , a green healing bear applying HoTs and removing effects and of course we have the regular damage dealing bear. It'd add class identity imho and make it a more versatile ulti.

Crafts_Many_Boxes

I think there are two ways to address the bear long-term:

1) Make it a normal class ability in animal companions. Casting once gives you a summon: bear buff for 60 minutes. It can still die normally, maybe new morphs I dunno. Either way, you don't have to double slot it anymore, and can use other ultis. Bear damage will be lower without the ulti attack, but they can either give it a new autoattack or just buff other warden stuff.

2) Make it an ultimate kind of like the NB ultimate in terms of what it does. Visually, you can summon a bear that charges at the enemy then disappears. Make it cost like 100 ulti, do some upfront dmg, and debuff the target to get hit harder by warden class skills for 10s or something.

Both of these options strive to keep the "bear identity" that ZOS has used to promote warden since the beginning.

max_only

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We reduced the damage of bear so we could buff the base damage of Wardens; the overall DPS should be within 1-2% of what it was before due to the buff of Advanced Species. This means anyone who doesn't use the bear will see less of a DPS loss.

Please apply this to all other class ultimates in the game. Thank you.

See here’s the thing. Every time I try to explain this to people inside and outside the game I’m met with the same initial reaction. I can’t find anyone else who thinks that it makes sense.

No one else would stand for a damage decrease to their ultimate, especially if they were forced to use just the one ultimate on both bars. Wardens aren’t desirable already. They need to keep the bear damage the same until Warden usage goes up. And gimping Warhorn to force people to take a Warden on raids is just a terrible idea.

If they decrease ultimates across the board, I think we’d see more impassioned responses. As it is, I log on and I have to explain whole patch notes to guildies and when they ask why, the reasons don’t make any common sense. Just mathematically. No sense just from the get go.

fierackas

max_only wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We reduced the damage of bear so we could buff the base damage of Wardens; the overall DPS should be within 1-2% of what it was before due to the buff of Advanced Species. This means anyone who doesn't use the bear will see less of a DPS loss.

Please apply this to all other class ultimates in the game. Thank you.

See here’s the thing. Every time I try to explain this to people inside and outside the game I’m met with the same initial reaction. I can’t find anyone else who thinks that it makes sense.

No one else would stand for a damage decrease to their ultimate, especially if they were forced to use just the one ultimate on both bars. Wardens aren’t desirable already. They need to keep the bear damage the same until Warden usage goes up. And gimping Warhorn to force people to take a Warden on raids is just a terrible idea.

If they decrease ultimates across the board, I think we’d see more impassioned responses. As it is, I log on and I have to explain whole patch notes to guildies and when they ask why, the reasons don’t make any common sense. Just mathematically. No sense just from the get go.

This

MooseKnuckles88

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We reduced the damage of bear so we could buff the base damage of Wardens; the overall DPS should be within 1-2% of what it was before due to the buff of Advanced Species. This means anyone who doesn't use the bear will see less of a DPS loss.

How does magden win from this? It's amazing to see how one class that was already at the very bottom get nerfed to be even worse than where it was before this update. Not only that, but willingly knowing that you're making magdens worse before the update. I just don't understand the logic on how this is improving. Perhaps I'm just confused about everything.

karekiz

Hey guys! I heard you hate that cast time on the beat so were making pets immune to damage! Were working on fixing them in all dungeons with abilties too! So don't fret pet players!
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BTW we nerfed it by 30% also. Kthx

THEMourningLily

The irony of increasing the damage rate by slotting pet abilities on the warden and then turning around and nerfing the bear so you aren't "forced" to use the bear ulitmate and will have the freedom to use other ultimates is amazing. <insert sarcasm here>

Greeeat, so now I can use dawnbreaker, but I will lose the pet damage bonus by pulling the bear ultimate off both bars.. This makes no damn sense? I still HAVE to use the bear if I want maximum damage bonus from slotting all the pets I can. So this nerf doesn't give me freedom from using the bear. It's forcing me to use it and making me take a dramatic dps loss - whether it's slotted or not.. Can someone explain how this is supposed to work? Cause it don't make no sense.

max_only

Dolmen farmers were sad. Not sad enough to come to the forums though, which is what they’re counting on.

Sylvermynx

I WANT to use my bears on my wardens. The pets are run server-side, so some of my 2000 ms lag is mitigated due to the pets. And besides, I remember my much-loved and now long gone hunters in WoW.... (don't miss the game at all - miss Jae and my other hunters like fire though....)

However.... that 30%.... that's just flat painful.

Glimmer50

I am sorry but a 3% increase per animal companion slotted including the bear is an 18% increase at the most. Realistically you are going to use 3 on most builds not 6. This does not make up for the 30% loss. If you want to make the wardens stronger then they now need a buff and make the frost resist less. Otherwise this class is useless without the bear. I just got off my warden and she really sucks now. The bear holds no aggro at all and her damage does not make up for it.

The math doesn't even make sense. Try again. I am really disgusted.

max_only

It gets worse my guy

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/441996/now-you-are-just-mocking-me