PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Cyrodiil Changes

Neoauspex

Bruma has to go for the map to be "balanced":

NBrookus

Regarding the goat paths, I suggest the following changes.

1) Remove ability to place siege inside. This is already a long, tight choke point. Siege ruins the actual player versus player part of the fight, and dropping a treb inside a small tunnel seems silly.

2) Allow horses. Why? Adept Rider set. This makes a place where the set is actually potentially useful if you plan ahead.

NBrookus

Also, bring back the Alessia boat!

RaddlemanNumber7

In Bruma the merchant flag and the outlier flag seem to be transposed. The outlier flag is next to the merchants, and the Merchant flag is on the other side of town.

bpmachete

I looked but did not see any comments, sorry if I missed it but, I see that there are tunnels that lead to Aldmeri Territory and Tunnels that lead to Daggerfall territoy up north. Are there the same leading up to Eboheart territory and can you go both ways in these tunnels? This is a great idea but it should also be even on all sides it seems like to make it competitive.

I don't agree with saying DC outpost AD outpost etc, they can be taken by either faction.
AD is still at disadvantage on the flanks and EP and DC are safest.

They need to make Weynon priory/Chorrol area have 3 flags through out and be capturable with different spawn points on the town per alliances(update spawn points in vlastrus and crops) and make Cheydinhal capturable as well with well spread out flags and differnt alliance spawn points if captured. This will make more balanced and of course the tunnels should lead both ways and have one to EP territory on both sides.

The outposts towards EP can be both good and bad, but mostly as is they are good for EP, if ya make the towns of Chorrol and Cheydinhal capturable the balance will be greater.

NBrookus

bpmachete wrote: »

I looked but did not see any comments, sorry if I missed it but, I see that there are tunnels that lead to Aldmeri Territory and Tunnels that lead to Daggerfall territoy up north. Are there the same leading up to Eboheart territory and can you go both ways in these tunnels? This is a great idea but it should also be even on all sides it seems like to make it competitive.

Between EP and AD, there is a non-destructable bridge at the Lunar Fang docks instead of the tunnels. (The place with the WWs and the skyshard that got everyone their Slaughtered! achievement.)

Enodoc

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Anyway, solution: make Cropsford a non-captureable Town (just like Chorrol, Cheydinhal, and Bravil are currently), and put EP's new Outpost somewhere near Cropsford and make Cheydinhal into EP's capture-able Town.
Then the Cyrodiil map would be re-balanced and evened out.
Cropsford and Vlastrus are too close together compared to Bruma. The towns' distance would be more balanced and equi-distant if it were Bruma > Cheydinhal > Vlastrus and not Bruma > Cropsford > Vlastrus.

That sounds like a good solution to the Cropsford Problem, and it doesn't involve having to move things around as much as you would need to in order to completely swap Cropsford and Harlun's. Although I'm not sure where an outpost near Cropsford would actually "fit" in the map.

Mayrael

Caramala seems to be a bit in a bad spot if it goes to defending, it has man high ground around allowing for heavy use of siege weapons to kill people on the top of the postern.

Mayrael

Neoauspex wrote: »

Bruma has to go for the map to be "balanced":

This.

Enkil

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Anyway, solution: make Cropsford a non-captureable Town (just like Chorrol, Cheydinhal, and Bravil are currently), and put EP's new Outpost somewhere near Cropsford and make Cheydinhal into EP's capture-able Town.
Then the Cyrodiil map would be re-balanced and evened out.
Cropsford and Vlastrus are too close together compared to Bruma. The towns' distance would be more balanced and equi-distant if it were Bruma > Cheydinhal > Vlastrus and not Bruma > Cropsford > Vlastrus.

It’s worth waiting for the Cyrodiil map additions until the above is done. Sure it’s a little more work, but it’s necessary.

turlisley

Mayrael wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Bruma has to go for the map to be "balanced":

This.

Cropsford and Vlastrus are so close to each other compared to Bruma/Vlastrus and Bruma/Cropsford.
The Cyrodiil map would be better off if Cheydinhal was EP's Town instead of Cropsford. Bruma/Cheydinhal/Vlastrus are more equi-distant, just like the rest of the Keeps/Castles/Forts / objectives in general. Plus, Bruma is full of life -- buildings, walls, and even a dolmen. Cropsford is just an open field/plateau. It's hardly defensible. Cheydinhal is far more interesting, it has several buildings, walls, and good combat/pathing for PvP skirmishes, ganking, and general game-play. Cheydinhal even has an NPC civil war going on. It makes sense that Cheydinhal should be a capture-able Town. Cropsford is open-field farmland and has a goblin infestation. Whoopdeedoo! We'd all prefer to have Cheydinhal over Cropsford. Did you even ever consider this? Like, did you even review the Cyrodiil map/physical-placement-of-objectives at all, beforehand? @ZOS_BrianWheeler
These Outpost/Town placements ruin the integrity and balance of AvAvA / Cyrodiil PvP game-play.
Please do not bring these Outpost placements to Live servers. Move the EP one, first! @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Turn Cropsford back into a non-capture-able Town and place Harlun's Outpost nearby Cropsford. Then make Cheydinhal into a capture-able Town.

It makes zero tactical sense to have an EP Outpost in between 6 EP Home Keeps.
Outposts are forward-facing objectives, like Sejanus Outpost. That is why they are called "Outposts."
EP should have a 2nd Outpost northeast of the Niben River, by its 3 Bridges (somewhere south of Sejanus). AD and DC both get 2 Outposts by their Mile-Gates. EP only gets 1 Outpost by its Bridges. Correct the imbalance! Outpost =/= Town.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

I spent some time on the PTS looking specifically at the Cyrodiil changes. The new map is going to take some time to get used to as playing the map has changed. (Yes, I am an oddball as I look at the game like Risk instead of being an AP farmer).

The tunnels both have great ambush spots and I was able to put down a scattershot in one of the ambush spots. The AD tunnel was a bit better for ambushing. (I can just see a certain EP ball group setting up shop for AP farming in the AD tunnel instead of running around the keep walls when AD and DC are fight for Ash.)

I tried to figure out how to repair the destroyed Alessia bridge and could not find a way to repair it. (Yes, I am loyal to the DC so I wanted it repaired so AD and EP could fight each other.). Did not try to repair the milegates.

Love the way the new outposts look. The new EP outpost is too protected where the DC new outpost is likely going to be red way too often as it is right outside the tunnel. Even the new AD outpost is better situated for attacking.

Liked the transit to Bruma. Good changes there. One thing to note is that the new outposts and town transits make the map seem smaller than it is on Live. Less horse simulator.

kookster

Honestly I like the idea of destructible bridges and I welcome it. However I am not a fan of the removal of the shores down below them. Yes I know you can by pass the bridge with it, but it is no guarantee that you can or will get by alive. I also feel like there are less area to line of site nearby the bridge essentially screwing all hopes of getting away from a zerg as a solo or small group.

Enodoc

turlisley wrote: »

It makes sense that Cheydinhal should be a capture-able Town. Cropsford is open-field farmland and has a goblin infestation. Whoopdeedoo! We'd all prefer to have Cheydinhal over Cropsford. Did you even ever consider this? Like, did you even review the Cyrodiil map/physical-placement-of-objectives at all, beforehand?

I think Cheydinhal was considered too close to one of the EP Gate Keeps (i.e., Farragut) to be a contender initially for an AvA objective. The same goes for Chorrol being too close to Rayles. Of the five towns, the three that were chosen to be capturable were the three that were nearest to each alliance's Outer Keeps.

Gilvoth

if you go to the top floor, cast rapids (on your mount), and Jump (at the edge) you can make it across to the other side of the bridge to Alessia while it is destroyed.

Gilvoth

the guards are spawning Really Fast at cropsford, makes it really hard to take all 3 flaggs.
it is doable, but really hard.

RaddlemanNumber7

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

the guards are spawning Really Fast at cropsford, makes it really hard to take all 3 flaggs.
it is doable, but really hard.

If you're solo then unattended flags you've already taken keep flipping themselves back, if you don't manage to take all 3 quickly enough. I haven't managed to solo Cropsford yet, but it's other players' intervention that has stopped me every time so far. I'll keep trying. I have taken Vlastarus solo, but I guess that's not such a big issue.

Karm1cOne

The goat bridge seems unbalanced, you dont have to unmount and can get across very easily. Upside, siege works on it.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

Well I know I’m not going to Cyrodiil anymore, even if an event goes on in there.

Dreyloch

As much as the EP folks want to poo-poo this change, you have to realize it's still going take a good amount of time to change entire locations of towns. I really think the bridges from AD to EP will be down almost 100% of the time. Same as most of the other new destructible items.

I'm more concerned that the "alt paths" will just be new bottlenecks and really not solve spreading us out at all. Just have to see it on live, and hope Brian will make any changes required

NBrookus

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

the guards are spawning Really Fast at cropsford, makes it really hard to take all 3 flaggs.
it is doable, but really hard.

If you're solo then unattended flags you've already taken keep flipping themselves back, if you don't manage to take all 3 quickly enough. I haven't managed to solo Cropsford yet, but it's other players' intervention that has stopped me every time so far. I'll keep trying. I have taken Vlastarus solo, but I guess that's not such a big issue.

If you are solo, take the unguarded flag first; it won't reflip on it's own.

turlisley

Dreyloch wrote: »

As much as the EP folks want to poo-poo this change, you have to realize it's still going take a good amount of time to change entire locations of towns. I really think the bridges from AD to EP will be down almost 100% of the time. Same as most of the other new destructible items.

I'm more concerned that the "alt paths" will just be new bottlenecks and really not solve spreading us out at all. Just have to see it on live, and hope Brian will make any changes required

Except for the fact that the EP-AD "goat path" (bridge at Lunar Fang Docks) takes AD directly to Cropsford...
Which, again, is easily flagged/flipped solo-able on LIVE. Unlike an Outpost, which requires siege and a lot more time to flag/flip, in general..

EDIT: Also, you can still get across Alessia Bridge even when it is 'completely down.'
Just mount, sprint, and use rapid maneuver (for Major Gallop).
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5469369#Comment_5469369
The same goes for 'completely-destroyed' Mile-Gates, which you can strategically jump-maneuver around all the rubble and get across.
YouTube video of someone doing exactly that, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=PwxVMg8nvdE
Or, this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5468936#Comment_5468936
'2x-3x more Slaughterfish damage' is a complete joke, players can get still out-of-the-map in Cyrodiil almost everywhere, which means they can still as easily swim across the Niben River, even with the shoreline changes.

RaddlemanNumber7

NBrookus wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

the guards are spawning Really Fast at cropsford, makes it really hard to take all 3 flaggs.
it is doable, but really hard.

If you're solo then unattended flags you've already taken keep flipping themselves back, if you don't manage to take all 3 quickly enough. I haven't managed to solo Cropsford yet, but it's other players' intervention that has stopped me every time so far. I'll keep trying. I have taken Vlastarus solo, but I guess that's not such a big issue.

If you are solo, take the unguarded flag first; it won't reflip on it's own.

All the flags in Cropsford now have guards. The outlier flag is on a huge platform with six guards on it, like the ones that guard resource flags.

Universe

*Do you have any general feedback ?
@ZOS_BrianWheeler Yes. account based* Campaign alliance lock is necessary in order to stop the traitors and to increase the overall loyalty to a certain alliance.
I have suggested the following alliance lock method several times:
It will be great if you would implement a campaign alliance lock(account based) so we will once again have more alliance loyalty and less treason/plays all sides kind of gameplay.
I suggest the following:
Char example 1 joins campaign 1. Char example 1 Alliance: AD
Char example 2 can't join campaign 1 for the duration of the campaign. Char example 2 Alliance: EP
Char example 3 can't join campaign 1 for the duration of the campaign. Char example 3 Alliance: DC

*If char example 1 abandoned campaign 1(penalty of ap, 500K-1M/other AP), only then it is possible to join campaign 1 with other alliance chars(only if they are all same alliance) and only after 24-72 hours have passed since char 1 abandoned the campaign.
*Once the campaign has ended, all players will receive a campaign reset(free of charge) so they may choose with which alliance to play(Only one alliance, AD/EP/DC). This reset will encourage to play until the end of campaign and not use the above option.

*I also ask that you implement more alliance ranks and better rewards for existing and new ranks.
I have an idea for maybe 10 more pvp ranks, like:
Duke: AR 51/52 (Required 70M AP for rank 1, 78M AP rank 2). Furniture: Noble banner of Authority.
Prince: AR 53/54 (Required 86M AP rank 1, 95M AP rank 2). Furniture: Resource tower+flag.
Grand Prince/Duke: AR 55/56 (Required 105M AP rank 1, 115M AP rank 2). Furniture: Grand Golden Crown, size: 10 meters.
Archduke: AR 57/58 (Required 130M AP rank 1, 145M AP rank 2). Furniture: An ancient colosseum 30 meters on 30 meters.
Legendary Hero: AR 59/60 (Required 165M AP rank 1, 185M AP rank 2). Furniture: Inner Keep+Throne of Legend.
Special mount+Color. 3 skill points.
AR symbol of Legendary Hero will be the alliance symbol with 1 crown each side, left and right.

Legendary Hero will have an alliance war skill line, similar to Emperor but less powerful:
Minor Domination: Increases your Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery in combat by 50% while in your campaign.
Minor Authority: Increases your Ultimate generation by 50% while in your campaign.
Tactician: Increases your damage done with Siege Weapons to keeps and other Siege Weapons by 50% while in your campaign.
Hero: Increases your healing received by 25% while in your campaign.
Noble: Increases your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 30% while in your campaign.

As for balance, in order to achieve Legendary Hero rank 1, you will need to farm 165 million alliance points, so there will be very few players with this rank
The buff can be even minor compared to above numbers, but it needs to make a difference, especially when a grind for a 165M AP rank may take a lot... of time and much effort.

NBrookus

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

the guards are spawning Really Fast at cropsford, makes it really hard to take all 3 flaggs.
it is doable, but really hard.

If you're solo then unattended flags you've already taken keep flipping themselves back, if you don't manage to take all 3 quickly enough. I haven't managed to solo Cropsford yet, but it's other players' intervention that has stopped me every time so far. I'll keep trying. I have taken Vlastarus solo, but I guess that's not such a big issue.

If you are solo, take the unguarded flag first; it won't reflip on it's own.

All the flags in Cropsford now have guards. The outlier flag is on a huge platform with six guards on it, like the ones that guard resource flags.

Erm. Maybe someone cleared the guards before I got there...

That is unfortunate.

turlisley

Enodoc wrote: »

turlisley wrote: »

It makes sense that Cheydinhal should be a capture-able Town. Cropsford is open-field farmland and has a goblin infestation. Whoopdeedoo! We'd all prefer to have Cheydinhal over Cropsford. Did you even ever consider this? Like, did you even review the Cyrodiil map/physical-placement-of-objectives at all, beforehand?

I think Cheydinhal was considered too close to one of the EP Gate Keeps (i.e., Farragut) to be a contender initially for an AvA objective. The same goes for Chorrol being too close to Rayles. Of the five towns, the three that were chosen to be capturable were the three that were nearest to each alliance's Outer Keeps.

6 towns.
Bruma, Cropsford, and Vlastrus are the 3 current capture-able Towns.
Bravil, Chorrol, and Cheydinhal are the 3 current non-capture-able Towns. You could also include Hackdirt as another non-capture-able Town, between Fort Rayles and Castle Brindle. Hackdirt is about the same size, if not bigger, than Cropsford.
Bravil, Chorrol, and Cheydinhal are each near a faction's Scroll-Gate -- Cheydinhal being the furthest away and Bravil being the closest.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

the guards are spawning Really Fast at cropsford, makes it really hard to take all 3 flaggs.
it is doable, but really hard.

If you're solo then unattended flags you've already taken keep flipping themselves back, if you don't manage to take all 3 quickly enough. I haven't managed to solo Cropsford yet, but it's other players' intervention that has stopped me every time so far. I'll keep trying. I have taken Vlastarus solo, but I guess that's not such a big issue.

If you are solo, take the unguarded flag first; it won't reflip on it's own.

All the flags in Cropsford now have guards. The outlier flag is on a huge platform with six guards on it, like the ones that guard resource flags.

Guards or no guards on all flags it makes no difference EP will have to ride from Drake to take the bridges if a three man team hits Cropford. Logging on the PTS today to see for myself but a three man team soloing a outpost doesn’t happen.

Why put EP in the middle of pure PvE quest points as a forward launching point for EP it’s pretty useless. At best it’s a jumping point / Rez point to take back Drake, BRK and the scroll keeps while at the same being a jumping point / Rez point for AD to hit Drake, BRK and the scroll keeps.

The other new outpost have to be back capped if you want the outter most keep otherwise they will see you coming. But if you take the EP outpost you are the perfect spot to hit 4 keeps no one will know where they will hit next.

RaddlemanNumber7

Were you able to capture Cropsford solo or did you need allies?

I give up on trying to take it solo. The guards respawn too quickly on the flags you have already taken. By the time I had moved on to start attacking the third flag the guards on the first always came back again, and immediately flipped their flag back to their home colour.

The best I could do was take Cropsford with the help of a single ally, and all they did was sit under one of the flags I had already taken.

Compared to the effort needed to take an outpost, Cropsford's defences still look very weak, especially for a forward transitus point.

StamWhipCultist

About outposts.

Seem position of EP outpost is unfair. Its in middle of nowhere, it cannot be defended as good as DC outpost and it does not guard anything at all.

DC outpost is placed best of all 3 of new ones. It is very near from 2 milegates and also the tunnel between EP and DC zones in Cyro. It is by far the hardest to get out of all 3 outposts based no elevation, not enough space for enemy sieges and proximity of Bruma and Dragonclaw.

AD outpost is horror to defend. Its in a terrain depression, literally a hole. Very easy to siege. On the other hand, it is not far away from 2 milegates and tunnel to DC zone is near, leading AD straight to Veynon Priory.

Cropsford changes are brutal. Unlike other 2 flag towns it cannot be soloed anymore, since all 3 flags have respawning NPCs.
I dislike how new flag look, its not pleasing at all. Unlike regular outposts, cropsford is meh. It should have been transformed into outpost and town could be surrounding it or something.

About tunnels. DC-EP tunnel is very steep and pretty short compared to other one. If guarded by EP it might be good, but there is no enough space for siege weaponry.

AD-DC tunnel has a S curve inside, also few short dead ends and seem as much more fun for fighting.

The lunar fangs dock bridge is not terrible, but if you fall into water you are done for. 30K sDK tank argonian on PTS died in there in about 3 seconds.

Lunar fang bridge has werewolf NPCs on one end. AD-DC tunnel have some Imperial NPCs inside. EP-DC tunnel has no NPCs at all.

Conclusion. DC can put great pressure on Kingscrest. AD has no real threat on both sides and has solid pressure on Rayles and Ash with new outpost. EP has nothing at all but pressure for DC.

Weps

Those bridges are never going to be up again.

RIP Jeff Bridges 2018