PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Cyrodiil Changes

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for the changes in Cyrodiil including destructible Bridges & Milegates, updated Keep Postern houses, and new Outposts. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Bridges and Milegates
  • Did you get stuck in any of the Bridges or Milegates when they were damaged or repaired? If so, please include a screenshot if possible.
  • Did you have a battle at the Bridge or Milegates now they are destroyable?
  • Did you fight around Lunar Fang Docks?
  • Did you fight through any of the tunnels connecting Daggerfall to Aldmeri or Ebonheart?
  • At any time, did you feel it was necessary to repair or destroy the Milegates or Bridges?
• Keep Postern Houses
  • Do you prefer the new postern platform or the old postern House?
  • Did you setup any weaponry on the postern platform?
  • Did you assault a Keep wall section that was protected by the Postern Platform?
  • Do you like the new mechanic where the postern upgrade shields the wall it’s built on?
• New Outposts
  • Did you port to any of the new Outposts or towns?
  • Did you battle over any of the new Outposts?
  • Were you able to capture Cropsford solo or did you need allies?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Neoauspex

Somebody post a screenshot of the new Cyro map for us console plebs please?

Cuthceol

Keep walls now have 410,000 HP when upgraded instead of 305,000 HP.

so no more 700K HP keep walls then or do we get those as well still?

ZOS_BrianWheeler

The 700k walls were a bug, so they will be gone.

umagon

Neoauspex wrote: »

Somebody post a screenshot of the new Cyro map for us console plebs please?

Edit: The alt paths when the bridges/gates are out.

Cuthceol

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The 700k walls were a bug, so they will be gone.

lol unlike all the other bugs that are still in cyrodiil you mean

Neoauspex

umagon wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Somebody post a screenshot of the new Cyro map for us console plebs please?

Thanks @umagon . So there's still two towns behind Yellow's emp keeps, there's now 2 outposts behind the Red emp keeps, but Blue just has one and it's pretty much right next to Brindle?

Varana

What does that exclamation point mean?

gepe87

EP has a disvantage in new map. AD and DC have a outpost near enemy bases and EP has a town. Some balance here.

Enodoc

Varana wrote: »

What does that exclamation point mean?

The central gate is destroyed, but the scaffold ladders up the wall are still there, meaning you can go one way but not the other at that milegate; destroying the scaffold, and therefore blocking the gate completely, is an additional step.

I'm not sure if that's really a good idea, as overall, that would be imbalanced - you can go from EP to DC, and DC to AD like this, but not from AD to EP because there is no equivalent one-way feature for the bridges.

gepe87 wrote: »

EP has a disvantage in new map. AD and DC have a outpost near enemy bases and EP has a town. Some balance here.

Advantages and disadvantages should be more balanced now - the new AD outpost and the new DC outpost balance Cropsford, while the new EP outpost balances Vlastarus and Bruma.


Also, why have two bridges and one gate been renamed? Anyone who coordinates by name may get confused, particularly now that Niben Bridge is the middle one rather than the bottom one.

ZOS_BrianWheeler

Known issue that came up: Respawning at the new Outposts will spawn you under the world. This will be corrected in the next PTS.

Skander

How about making Cropsford an Outpost/Town. Becouse now EP it's lacking an outpost

ZOS_BrianWheeler

EP is not lacking in an Outpost as they have Harlun's and Sejanus just as Aldmeri has Nikel and Carmala, and how Daggerfall has Bleaker's and Winter's Reach.

ArchMikem

I'm interested in what these alternative paths look like up close. (they're probably Destro Ball Groups wet dreams I'm sure)

JamieAubrey

Having spent 4+ years in Cyro, this is freaking me out
Also there is no space to get back up once you are under the bridge, you get slaughtered so this will be interesting since you can't go under and across to flank from behind

It will get some use to but I expect Alessia Bridge to be cut off 24/7 and small groups waiting at the new ways across

Grouf

The problem is the placement of the new EP outpost.

AD's new outpost is south of the westernmost gates, providing faster access to those gates.

DC's new outpost is west of the northernmost gates, providing faster access to those gates.

EP's new outpost is north of Drake, which is nowhere near any of the bridges, and does NOT provide faster access to those bridges (or anything).

EP's fast access transit point to the southernmost bridges is a town (which does NOT requires enemies to setup siege equipment to flag to make fast-travel impossible and has NO defensive positions to help repel attackers).


To make the new map fair to all alliance you either need to turn Cropsford into an Outpost and Harlun into a town OR you need to make Carmala and Winter's Reach towns and turn Vlastarus and Bruma into Outposts.

Darkmage1337

Grouf wrote: »

The problem is the placement of the new EP outpost.

AD's new outpost is south of the westernmost gates, providing faster access to those gates.

DC's new outpost is west of the northernmost gates, providing faster access to those gates.

EP's new outpost is north of Drake, which is nowhere near any of the bridges, and does NOT provide faster access to those bridges (or anything).

EP's fast access transit point to the southernmost bridges is a town (which does NOT requires enemies to setup siege equipment to flag to make fast-travel impossible and has NO defensive positions to help repel attackers).


To make the new map fair to all alliance you either need to turn Cropsford into an Outpost and Harlun into a town OR you need to make Carmala and Winter's Reach towns and turn Vlastarus and Bruma into Outposts.

Yeah, I agree, and I made a thread about this issue over two weeks ago. @ZOS_BrianWheeler decided to ignore it.

Please review:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/433513/upcoming-new-and-imbalanced-cyrodiil-map-changes-update-20-murkmire/p1



TL;DR version: AD & DC both get 2 Outposts to guard their respective 3 Mile-Gates whereas EP only gets 1 Outpost to guard its respective 'Gates' (the 3 Bridges).

Also: Outposts function far differently than Towns, so no one can say 'oh, but EP gets Cropsford so it's fair.' No. It isn't. You can solo-flip/capture Cropsford with 1 player, no siege required. Outposts actually require siege. And effort.
AD has Vlastrus and DC has Bruma. Cropsford has always been in EP territory, Cropsford is to the east/right of the Niben River/3-Bridges... Just like Bruma is to the west/left of DC's 3 Mile-Gates. And Vlastrus is below/south of AD's 3 Mile-Gates.

Anyway, solution: make Cropsford a non-captureable Town (just like Chorrol, Cheydinhal, and Bravil are currently), and put EP's new Outpost somewhere near Cropsford and make Cheydinhal into EP's capture-able Town.
Then the Cyrodiil map would be re-balanced and evened out.
Cropsford and Vlastrus are too close together compared to Bruma. The towns' distance would be more balanced and equi-distant if it were Bruma > Cheydinhal > Vlastrus and not Bruma > Cropsford > Vlastrus.

Please rethink this design. @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Again, feel free to read-up: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/433513/upcoming-new-and-imbalanced-cyrodiil-map-changes-update-20-murkmire/p1

umagon

ArchMikem wrote: »

I'm interested in what these alternative paths look like up close. (they're probably Destro Ball Groups wet dreams I'm sure)

Taken from west side of the map dc side:


Inside of the cave/mine:


Taken from west side of the map ad's side:


Southeast bridge ad's side:


Southeast bridge ep's side:


Northeast dc side:


Inside of the cave/mine:


Northeast ep side:



I don't know it could go both ways; for some ball groups it could be a death trap. Camps aren't easily placed while siege can be in some exit locations.

joaaocaampos

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

EP is not lacking in an Outpost as they have Harlun's and Sejanus just as Aldmeri has Nikel and Carmala, and how Daggerfall has Bleaker's and Winter's Reach.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler It's the position.

What needs to be changed:

• Turn Cropsford into an Outpost and Harlun into a Town.
• Move Bruma to the left.

Didgerion

NO-CP pvp campaign is not enabled.

I'm not going to test CP campaign as the balance there is totally broken.

Joy_Division

I don't want a symmetrical map and as an EP, I don't have a problem with how the territory is configured.

If after 3 months of campaign, it becomes clear that it is indeed unfair, then I will admit I was mistaken, but I want to play this out before automatically assuming it's busted. I'm still not sure why people are automatically thinking blue will siege that yellow outpost before Brindle when all that does it alert AD to their intentions. It can get skipped and isolated, and thus easily backcapped. We should see how it plays out.

Ackwalan

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

EP is not lacking in an Outpost as they have Harlun's and Sejanus just as Aldmeri has Nikel and Carmala, and how Daggerfall has Bleaker's and Winter's Reach.

Correct (kind of) EP is not lacking an Outpost. It is just that the new Outpost is oddly positioned compared to the Outpost that AD and DC were placed.

RaddlemanNumber7

Alessia Bridge is fallen down(for the first time)

Going...


Going...


Hey, lady. Don't stand there...


Oops...


Gone...

RaddlemanNumber7

Bridge repairs. Done with a single character, starting from completely demolished.

The bridge was passable after using 13 repair kits in about 1 minute.
The bridge was completely repaired using 49 repair kits in about 4 minutes.

There is no indication on the campaign map that the bridge is being repaired until the moment it changes from being down to being passable.

So, a demolished bridge is not an obstacle unless it is being actively defended.

Edit:
The centre sections of Mile Gates are the same numbers. A single character can make the completely demolished centre section of a mile gate passable in 1 minute.

RaddlemanNumber7

Postern platforms

patch notes say

Reworked the postern house to be a platform more conducive to siege deployment. This platform also shields the Keep Wall it’s built upon from taking damage until it’s destroyed.

This doesn't seem to be what's happening. You can shoot the wall beneath an intact postern platform and the wall does take damage. Didn't have time to knock the wall down to zero health, so not sure what happens to the wall and postern platform when that happens.



Placing siege on postern platform. If you place a ballista right up against the little wall on the outer edge of a platform the field is fire is blocked in about a 180 degree arc.

Edit: Went back later and shot the wall beneath the postern some more. The postern platform remained at 240K the whole time. When I reduced the wall to about 135K, causing the second collapse, the entire postern platform collapsed too. This seems to be the same behaviour as we have with posterns on live.

RaddlemanNumber7

Tried to respawn at Harluns Outpost after death. My character reappeared some way away from the outpost...

Tommy_The_Gun

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

EP is not lacking in an Outpost as they have Harlun's and Sejanus just as Aldmeri has Nikel and Carmala, and how Daggerfall has Bleaker's and Winter's Reach.

This is true - the number of outpost is the same. The problem is (as many people already pointed out) their placement.

Aldmeri Dominion has: Nikel and Carmala: both being furthest extended front - line defence points, facing Daggerfall Covenant near milegate.

Daggerfall Covenan has: Bleaker's and Winter's Reach both being furthest extended front - line defence points, facing Ebonheart Pact near milegate.

Ebonheart Pact has: Harlun's and Sejanus - only one of them (Sejanus) is furthest extended front - line defence point - facing Aldmeri Dominion. The other furthest extended front - line is Cropsford Town, while new outpost (Harlun's) is in the middle of nowhere.

This leads us to the major problem that is the topic of this feedback:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Were you able to capture Cropsford solo or did you need allies?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Exactly. I was able to capture Cropsford Town solo with no help.
Now look - I am not a pro player, not even good at PvP. Average at best. Yet I was able to tag & take a front - line defence point. If I was not alone but in like a group of 3 - 5 people - I would took it much faster.

If that was an outpost I would have serious problem and I would not be able to take it solo.

The point is - this simply makes the new Ebonheart Pact Harlun's outpost - almost useless & obsolete. The only use for EP for this outpost is + 1 point for the scoreboard. There is ZERO tactical use. If this is going to be an "Ebonheart Pact" outpost - then at lest make it useful for EP. In current state it is more useful for AD or even DC small scale. If you play as EP, and your faction has Drakelowe Keep... why would you sit in Harlun's outpost ? 90% of the time it will be empty just waiting to be taken.

Two Solutions that I can suggest to make map balance better:
1. Best solution: Place new Harlun's outpost where Cropsford Town is and move Cropsford where the Harlun's outpost is supposed to be.

Yes, I know it will take a lot of time & work to do. To move a town with quest NPC to a different area - but in the end - once you do it - the map balance will be much better. And look what good opportunity you have. You can "edit" Cropsofrd and make it totally destroyed with only 1 - 2 houses left as a smoking ruin - and in the place where players respawn point is - you can place a new Harlun's outpost - and add some lore books about a Great Battle between EP & AD that destroyed the city and the one who won build a new Outpost - but after some time it was retaken and rebuild slightly etc - so you can have some Aldmeri Dominion & Ebonheart Pact architectural motifs mixed.

2. Fast solution: Change Harlun's outpost Transitus Shrine Connection.

Currently it is connected to Drakelowe Keep - which makes it almost useless if Drakelowe Keep is Under Siege as you can not port there (to Harlun's outpost) & from there go to Drakelowe Keep to help with the defence. Simply put: Connect Harlun's outpost to Farragut Keep instead.

Oh and one thing that I just realized. When you reinforced Cropsford defences you also made a daily Cyrodiil quest (capture 3 towns) much more difficult for solo players.

NBrookus

The new outposts look more interesting than the old ones. All 3 have NPCs and randoms structures nearby to play with/on.

On the towns, the large spawn buildings seem out of character. Also, I am not sure why there are NPCs at the transitus. While one town was under attack, I went inside the spawn and got the silence buff/debuff. The town flipped and so did the NPCs, but the mage guards couldn't attack me nor I them.

Transiting to towns is going to be convenient, but I still am concerned that tightening the borders between factions reinforces the zerg meta. LAG is the #1 problem in Cyrodiil and zergs cause the whole map to lag out. With the borders tightened, it reduces the ability for solo/duo/small groups to go deep into territory and cause distractions. Compacting the population into choke points will be fun for ball groups farming those spots, but I feel it will increase lag.

Alessia Bridge rocks are now very dangerous. There are very limited "walkways" below the main ground level on the rocks but a tiny slip and you will die. I need to go back and check the goat paths/caves/Lunar Docks; I forgot about them.

For those on console or without PTS; expect no great cinematography but these are the outposts. I think you can make it on top of the scaffolds at Caramala but I didn't figure it out. Maybe with streak?

Winter's Reach:
https://youtu.be/d81Vkq7NeUs

Caramala:
https://youtu.be/JSHxa_YMQwQ

Harlun:
https://youtu.be/dqsQiJzG8KQ

Carbonised

I agree regarding Harlun's. While the two other outposts have strategic value, both as a gathering point to assault the enemy, or as a line of defense into your territory, the Harlun's outpost is too far away from enemy lines to be of any use. Literally the only use for it is for the enemy to occupy it and launch easy attacks into EP's home keeps, which makes it much more of a liability for EP, than any advantage. Whereas the other 2 outposts can serve AD and DC with great respawn points to launch an attack on the enemy, while posing no threat to them if they do fall into enemy hands.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler I'm sorry but this is a do-over, it's not really fair to place 2 out of 3 outposts with such advantages while placing the 3rd one where it will almost certainly only be a liability. AD is going to hold that outpost constantly, to launch easy and fast attacks on the 3 EP keeps from behind. I assume exchanging places with Harlun's and Cropsford is not an option, due to all the quests in Crops, the only viable solution is to move Harlun's close to Cropsford, near the delve and the dark anchor on the map.

Thraben

1. The COMBAT BUG ist still there. I had to RUN from Arrius to the new EP outpost because I couldn´t mount my horse.
Either permit people to mount in combat or fix this bug.

2. The new outposts are well and better designed than the old ones. Lots of good fighting opportunities. Please add more walls and palisades, especially when there are gates standing in the area without any connection to a wall system, and consequently without purpose.

3. The goat paths between DC and the rest are brutal chokepoints where organized guilds like mine will lurk to destroy everything in their path (if I´m still playing then, that is ... I´m a sorc main) for hours, preferably with a scroll.
In order to reduce the frustration of other players, some auto- repair mechanic should be implemented for Gates and Bridges.

Maybe a caravan moving from one keep to the Bridge Gate? And a quest like "protect/destroy the caravan"?

anadandy

Posted in wrong thread - moved it.