Dwarves as a new race.

ezio45

us being dwemer cant happen BUUUT us exploring the dwemer thru some even, totally possible and would be awesome

starkerealm

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Queenmab wrote: »

There are lore issues with that idea, I believe. If I look at it independent of that though, I would love to see the Dwemer and get the story of their disappearance (more than just the hints we’ve had in the past).

But the problem is how are all the rando Dwemers now just running around Tamriel when they were thought to be extinct?

We've been straight up told what happened. They used Sunder and Keening on the Heart of Lorkhan, and miscalcuated somehow, resulting in the entire race either vaporizing or beaming up. Either way, there's no real mystery here. The only catch is, only a handful of people in the Third Era know this, and basically no one in the Second Era knows what happened.

But, no, there is no real mystery. The Dwarves tried to turn themselves into gods, screwed up, and were vaporized for their hubris.

Or they succeed and become God's, maybe they did become to be the numindiums skin. Perhaps Azura angered at their Hubris snatched them and put them in another plane (She was at the Battle after all)

All these and them just vaporizing (Although no ash or pieces are left from their bodies and they cannot even be pulled from the dead by necromamcy) or getting beamed up are all theories. There is no concrete answer.

The ghosts and ash piles under Mournhold suggest otherwise. The inability to raise Dwemer under normal circumstances, and lack of remains may simply be a product of time.

AuraNebula

starkerealm wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Queenmab wrote: »

There are lore issues with that idea, I believe. If I look at it independent of that though, I would love to see the Dwemer and get the story of their disappearance (more than just the hints we’ve had in the past).

But the problem is how are all the rando Dwemers now just running around Tamriel when they were thought to be extinct?

We've been straight up told what happened. They used Sunder and Keening on the Heart of Lorkhan, and miscalcuated somehow, resulting in the entire race either vaporizing or beaming up. Either way, there's no real mystery here. The only catch is, only a handful of people in the Third Era know this, and basically no one in the Second Era knows what happened.

But, no, there is no real mystery. The Dwarves tried to turn themselves into gods, screwed up, and were vaporized for their hubris.

Or they succeed and become God's, maybe they did become to be the numindiums skin. Perhaps Azura angered at their Hubris snatched them and put them in another plane (She was at the Battle after all)

All these and them just vaporizing (Although no ash or pieces are left from their bodies and they cannot even be pulled from the dead by necromamcy) or getting beamed up are all theories. There is no concrete answer.

The ghosts and ash piles under Mournhold suggest otherwise. The inability to raise Dwemer under normal circumstances, and lack of remains may simply be a product of time.

Not even the most skilled necromancer could bring them back, I doubt that's a time issue. The Dwarves who were at Red Mountain left nothing behind, no ash. There could be other explanations, as we also find no ash in any of the Dwemer ruins in Skyrim.

Edit: Also when Arniel Gane disappears after using Keening nothing of him is left behind. Just poof he's gone and then you can summon his shade.

starkerealm

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Queenmab wrote: »

There are lore issues with that idea, I believe. If I look at it independent of that though, I would love to see the Dwemer and get the story of their disappearance (more than just the hints we’ve had in the past).

But the problem is how are all the rando Dwemers now just running around Tamriel when they were thought to be extinct?

We've been straight up told what happened. They used Sunder and Keening on the Heart of Lorkhan, and miscalcuated somehow, resulting in the entire race either vaporizing or beaming up. Either way, there's no real mystery here. The only catch is, only a handful of people in the Third Era know this, and basically no one in the Second Era knows what happened.

But, no, there is no real mystery. The Dwarves tried to turn themselves into gods, screwed up, and were vaporized for their hubris.

Or they succeed and become God's, maybe they did become to be the numindiums skin. Perhaps Azura angered at their Hubris snatched them and put them in another plane (She was at the Battle after all)

All these and them just vaporizing (Although no ash or pieces are left from their bodies and they cannot even be pulled from the dead by necromamcy) or getting beamed up are all theories. There is no concrete answer.

The ghosts and ash piles under Mournhold suggest otherwise. The inability to raise Dwemer under normal circumstances, and lack of remains may simply be a product of time.

Not even the most skilled necromancer could bring them back, I doubt that's a time issue. The Dwarves who were at Red Mountain left nothing behind, no ash. There could be other explanations, as we also find no ash in any of the Dwemer ruins in Skyrim.

Edit: Also when Arniel Gane disappears after using Keening nothing of him is left behind. Just poof he's gone and then you can summon his shade.

We find, literally, tons of ash around Red Mountain. Literally tons. We can't figure out what was once Dwemer, and what was just volcanic, but there's so much ash up there.

Also, most dwemer ruins in Tamriel are not sealed. They've been exposed to the elements to one degree or another for millennia. The ruins under Mournhold are an exception. They're fresh. The remains are there, and so are the ghosts.

Put this in contrast to someplace like Volenfell or Razak's Wheel, where there are entire sections of the ruins that are completely exposed to the desert, and it would be more impressive if there were surviving ash piles to find.

AuraNebula

[Fdgh

starkerealm wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Queenmab wrote: »

There are lore issues with that idea, I believe. If I look at it independent of that though, I would love to see the Dwemer and get the story of their disappearance (more than just the hints we’ve had in the past).

But the problem is how are all the rando Dwemers now just running around Tamriel when they were thought to be extinct?

We've been straight up told what happened. They used Sunder and Keening on the Heart of Lorkhan, and miscalcuated somehow, resulting in the entire race either vaporizing or beaming up. Either way, there's no real mystery here. The only catch is, only a handful of people in the Third Era know this, and basically no one in the Second Era knows what happened.

But, no, there is no real mystery. The Dwarves tried to turn themselves into gods, screwed up, and were vaporized for their hubris.

Or they succeed and become God's, maybe they did become to be the numindiums skin. Perhaps Azura angered at their Hubris snatched them and put them in another plane (She was at the Battle after all)

All these and them just vaporizing (Although no ash or pieces are left from their bodies and they cannot even be pulled from the dead by necromamcy) or getting beamed up are all theories. There is no concrete answer.

The ghosts and ash piles under Mournhold suggest otherwise. The inability to raise Dwemer under normal circumstances, and lack of remains may simply be a product of time.

Not even the most skilled necromancer could bring them back, I doubt that's a time issue. The Dwarves who were at Red Mountain left nothing behind, no ash. There could be other explanations, as we also find no ash in any of the Dwemer ruins in Skyrim.

Edit: Also when Arniel Gane disappears after using Keening nothing of him is left behind. Just poof he's gone and then you can summon his shade.

We find, literally, tons of ash around Red Mountain. Literally tons. We can't figure out what was once Dwemer, and what was just volcanic, but there's so much ash up there.

Also, most dwemer ruins in Tamriel are not sealed. They've been exposed to the elements to one degree or another for millennia. The ruins under Mournhold are an exception. They're fresh. The remains are there, and so are the ghosts.

Put this in contrast to someplace like Volenfell or Razak's Wheel, where there are entire sections of the ruins that are completely exposed to the desert, and it would be more impressive if there were surviving ash piles to find.

What about the Dwemer who were fighting the Rourken Clan were also have said to have disappeared. All that was left of Kragernac was his tools. There are also no Dwemer ghosts in Skyrim.

Davor

How about Baulders Gate? I don't recall guns in that game. That is a great fantasy game without guns. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Waffennacht

The most probable conclusion is that they got zero summed;

And it probably leaves you an Ash pile

starkerealm

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Queenmab wrote: »

There are lore issues with that idea, I believe. If I look at it independent of that though, I would love to see the Dwemer and get the story of their disappearance (more than just the hints we’ve had in the past).

But the problem is how are all the rando Dwemers now just running around Tamriel when they were thought to be extinct?

We've been straight up told what happened. They used Sunder and Keening on the Heart of Lorkhan, and miscalcuated somehow, resulting in the entire race either vaporizing or beaming up. Either way, there's no real mystery here. The only catch is, only a handful of people in the Third Era know this, and basically no one in the Second Era knows what happened.

But, no, there is no real mystery. The Dwarves tried to turn themselves into gods, screwed up, and were vaporized for their hubris.

Or they succeed and become God's, maybe they did become to be the numindiums skin. Perhaps Azura angered at their Hubris snatched them and put them in another plane (She was at the Battle after all)

All these and them just vaporizing (Although no ash or pieces are left from their bodies and they cannot even be pulled from the dead by necromamcy) or getting beamed up are all theories. There is no concrete answer.

The ghosts and ash piles under Mournhold suggest otherwise. The inability to raise Dwemer under normal circumstances, and lack of remains may simply be a product of time.

Not even the most skilled necromancer could bring them back, I doubt that's a time issue. The Dwarves who were at Red Mountain left nothing behind, no ash. There could be other explanations, as we also find no ash in any of the Dwemer ruins in Skyrim.

Edit: Also when Arniel Gane disappears after using Keening nothing of him is left behind. Just poof he's gone and then you can summon his shade.

We find, literally, tons of ash around Red Mountain. Literally tons. We can't figure out what was once Dwemer, and what was just volcanic, but there's so much ash up there.

Also, most dwemer ruins in Tamriel are not sealed. They've been exposed to the elements to one degree or another for millennia. The ruins under Mournhold are an exception. They're fresh. The remains are there, and so are the ghosts.

Put this in contrast to someplace like Volenfell or Razak's Wheel, where there are entire sections of the ruins that are completely exposed to the desert, and it would be more impressive if there were surviving ash piles to find.

What about the Dwemer who were fighting the Rourken Clan were also have said to have disappeared. All that was left of Kragernac was his tools. There are also no Dwemer ghosts in Skyrim.

There were also no sealed Dwemer ruins in Skyrim. They were overrun by the Falmer.

CyberSkooma

There will be no reasonable way to ever introduce living Dwemer into a TES game unless they throw it all the way back into 1E. It's just not going to happen dudes; unless they were never actually killed in the first place. Moved to another realm? Maybe. But unlikely.

SPOILERS UP NEXT






In TES III Morrowind, you encounter the last living Dwemer, Yagrum Bagarn, who's being taken care of by Divayth Fyr. If you ask him about the disappearance of the Dwemer, he expains to you that he doesn't know what happened because he was in another realm at the time of their disappearance.He himself tried to search for answers and even went back to Red Mountain but contracted Corpus Disease. (which Divayth Fyr is trying to help him cure.)

This is a quote from Yagrum Bagarn

I do not know for a fact that I am the last. But in my travels thousands of years ago. I never encountered another. And since I have been here, I often ask Lord Fyr, but he says he has never heard a credible rumor of another Dwemer, on Tamriel, or in any Outer Realm."

Not sure about you, but it doesn't sound to me like we will be seeing them any time soon.

Ashilda_Dragonheart

Yes, they already went against the lore with a lot of crown store items anyway. I think excluding some races from being playable takes away a lot of potential from the Elder Scrolls in general. I don't know why people are so intent on sticking to the lore. Why wouldn't people want to play as a new race? There are a lot of ways the races could be added while sticking to the lore at the same time, I'm sure.

Sylvermynx

Ashilda_Dragonheart wrote: »

Yes, they already went against the lore with a lot of crown store items anyway. I think excluding some races from being playable takes away a lot of potential from the Elder Scrolls in general. I don't know why people are so intent on sticking to the lore. Why wouldn't people want to play as a new race? There are a lot of ways the races could be added while sticking to the lore at the same time, I'm sure.

Some of us have played TES since the day Arena released (March 25, 1994). For me, due to playing every TES game since March 25, 1994, I'm very involved in NOT retconning lore. Yes, I'm aware that some lore has been reworked over time, but not huge gulping quantities (or generally not anyway) - and bringing back an extinct race just because some newer players think it's okay would seriously upset me and others.

I'm not happy about the non-lore stuff already on the crown store. I can ignore it for the most part, and I certainly don't buy it. But something like the dwemer....

Hmm. Are you maybe an alt on another account of that guy who wants to put all the long-extinct races on the crown store?

Ashilda_Dragonheart

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Ashilda_Dragonheart wrote: »

Yes, they already went against the lore with a lot of crown store items anyway. I think excluding some races from being playable takes away a lot of potential from the Elder Scrolls in general. I don't know why people are so intent on sticking to the lore. Why wouldn't people want to play as a new race? There are a lot of ways the races could be added while sticking to the lore at the same time, I'm sure.

Some of us have played TES since the day Arena released (March 25, 1994). For me, due to playing every TES game since March 25, 1994, I'm very involved in NOT retconning lore. Yes, I'm aware that some lore has been reworked over time, but not huge gulping quantities (or generally not anyway) - and bringing back an extinct race just because some newer players think it's okay would seriously upset me and others.

I'm not happy about the non-lore stuff already on the crown store. I can ignore it for the most part, and I certainly don't buy it. But something like the dwemer....

Hmm. Are you maybe an alt on another account of that guy who wants to put all the long-extinct races on the crown store?

I'm not trying to ruin anyone's gameplay. I just don't get why you wouldn't want some new races added. The Elder Scrolls is such an awesome series with so many great races, I just would love to play as a snow elf or a dwemer or chimer. They could make a whole game about one of these races before they went extinct, for example. I am also a huge fan of this series and I played Oblivion and Skyrim.
Also, for the record, I am not a guy. I am glad to have feedback from another big fan of the series though.

starkerealm

CyberSkooma wrote: »

There will be no reasonable way to ever introduce living Dwemer into a TES game unless they throw it all the way back into 1E. It's just not going to happen dudes; unless they were never actually killed in the first place. Moved to another realm? Maybe. But unlikely.

SPOILERS UP NEXT






In TES III Morrowind, you encounter the last living Dwemer, Yagrum Bagarn, who's being taken care of by Divayth Fyr. If you ask him about the disappearance of the Dwemer, he expains to you that he doesn't know what happened because he was in another realm at the time of their disappearance.He himself tried to search for answers and even went back to Red Mountain but contracted Corpus Disease. (which Divayth Fyr is trying to help him cure.)

This is a quote from Yagrum Bagarn

I do not know for a fact that I am the last. But in my travels thousands of years ago. I never encountered another. And since I have been here, I often ask Lord Fyr, but he says he has never heard a credible rumor of another Dwemer, on Tamriel, or in any Outer Realm."

Not sure about you, but it doesn't sound to me like we will be seeing them any time soon.

I think I've said this before, but it wouldn't surprise me if TES6 or later did a whole Return of the Dwarves as an invading, "alien," force trying to conquer Tamriel. But, for ESO? No.

Mr_Walker

Whilst I'm usually one for being fairly relaxed on lore, and that it must serve the game, in this case I say hell no.

Iluvrien

Ashilda_Dragonheart wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Ashilda_Dragonheart wrote: »

Yes, they already went against the lore with a lot of crown store items anyway. I think excluding some races from being playable takes away a lot of potential from the Elder Scrolls in general. I don't know why people are so intent on sticking to the lore. Why wouldn't people want to play as a new race? There are a lot of ways the races could be added while sticking to the lore at the same time, I'm sure.

Some of us have played TES since the day Arena released (March 25, 1994). For me, due to playing every TES game since March 25, 1994, I'm very involved in NOT retconning lore. Yes, I'm aware that some lore has been reworked over time, but not huge gulping quantities (or generally not anyway) - and bringing back an extinct race just because some newer players think it's okay would seriously upset me and others.

I'm not happy about the non-lore stuff already on the crown store. I can ignore it for the most part, and I certainly don't buy it. But something like the dwemer....

Hmm. Are you maybe an alt on another account of that guy who wants to put all the long-extinct races on the crown store?

I'm not trying to ruin anyone's gameplay. I just don't get why you wouldn't want some new races added. The Elder Scrolls is such an awesome series with so many great races, I just would love to play as a snow elf or a dwemer or chimer. They could make a whole game about one of these races before they went extinct, for example. I am also a huge fan of this series and I played Oblivion and Skyrim.
Also, for the record, I am not a guy. I am glad to have feedback from another big fan of the series though.

Emphasis mine.

People are telling you that this would impact on their gameplay experience. Yet you persist in both saying that you don’t want that, but do want the inclusion of these races.

Given that you are being told that these are mutually exclusive goals: Which of those is actually important to you?

Ashilda_Dragonheart

Well, I guess if the races could be added and make everyone happy. That's what I want. For example, they could add the Sea Elves, because they are in the game, and maybe they could add a quest line for them too. They could also add the snow elves, because there are possibly some hidden groups of them still in existence, like in Skyrim. They don't necessarily have to add completely extinct races, but some unplayable races are in existence that could be used.

Sylvermynx

You know, it's possible that TES VI (or later, if there is a later) might offer some DLC content with some of those races - which would of course be totally at the discretion of the player, since TES is a SPMR game series. In that case, that would be fine, because those of us who have lore issues with stuff (and in general aren't fond of "time warp" stuff or whatever mechanism might be chosen to account for extinct races becoming a thing) wouldn't have to deal with lore-breaking stuff in our single-player games.

But ESO? Where if you show up in Vivec on a Dwemer, I have to pretend I don't see you and then for some weird reason you message me about something?

No thanks.

Iluvrien

Ashilda_Dragonheart wrote: »

Well, I guess if the races could be added and make everyone happy. That's what I want. For example, they could add the Sea Elves, because they are in the game, and maybe they could add a quest line for them too. They could also add the snow elves, because there are possibly some hidden groups of them still in existence, like in Skyrim. They don't necessarily have to add completely extinct races, but some unplayable races are in existence that could be used.

If you want to keep this to extant races with reasonable populations that are currently in-game but unplayableand will not cause instant homicidal reactions in the NPC denizens of Tamriel? Excellent! Go right ahead. I’m right behind that idea.

Want to include extinct, disappeared or globally adversarial races? Dear. Azura. No.

Ashilda_Dragonheart

People already walk around looking like the dwemer when they wear dwarven armor. The npcs don't really need to react to a Dwemer. I mean people can turn into werewolves right in front of npcs and the npcs don't care.

MaxJrFTW

The Elder Scrolls is a lore based franchise and this would break the lore. No, thank you.

Ashilda_Dragonheart

Some people would like the new npcs just to role play, I'm sure.

Ashilda_Dragonheart

Ashilda_Dragonheart wrote: »

Some people would like the new npcs just to role play, I'm sure.

I meant the new races

IZZEFlameLash

No. Dwemers are extinct. And no, Dwemers are not exactly short. This is actually the closest era we've been to Dwemers timeline wise but they are still gone and they need to stay gone because the entire race either went to another world or got taken away by Daedric Princes to be tormented forever. The only reason the game calls certain things 'Dwarven' is out of convenience. They are nothing like midgets.

starkerealm

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

No. Dwemers are extinct. And no, Dwemers are not exactly short. This is actually the closest era we've been to Dwemers timeline wise but they are still gone and they need to stay gone because the entire race either went to another world or got taken away by Daedric Princes to be tormented forever. The only reason the game calls certain things 'Dwarven' is out of convenience. They are nothing like midgets.

Well, the etymology of, "dwarves" in TES is that the Dwemer traded with the Giants, who regarded them as short. You know, the big 4m guys with the clubs that send you into orbit. They considered the Dwarves short, and referred to them as such. The Dwemer themselves were somewhere around the same height as the Dunmer.

Iluvrien

Ashilda_Dragonheart wrote: »

People already walk around looking like the dwemer when they wear dwarven armor. The npcs don't really need to react to a Dwemer. I mean people can turn into werewolves right in front of npcs and the npcs don't care.

1) Wearing Dwemer armour and being a Dwemer are two different things.

2) You’re right. They need to fix those NPC reactions to werewolves.

IZZEFlameLash

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

It’s possible they never left, have been there all along, and that we interact with them often.

The heart was used to grant divinity. It might have done so to the dwemer. If only there were a countless number of divine beings floating around...

From the lore, dwemer care not one whit for the inconveniences of others, and make heavy demands such as taking the eyes and very faculties of the snow elves, turning their elf brothers into Falmer. How very daedric of an attitude.

And since time works differently for the Daedra, they easily might not be stuck in linear time.

They could have been turned into the daedric princes, Demi princes, etc.

They combined their souls to become the metal skin of the Numidium, and wanted other races to follow in their footsteps to become the limitless spirits everyone is a fragment of.

That's not fact but just a theory. A well thought out one, but we do not know that is exactly what happened to them.

Of course but it's the best theory we have, also was "confirmed" by Kirkbride if you put any stock into what he says. He wrote that lore but they could always change it I guess. I hope they don't because I really like that explaination

Also, please don't use Kirkbride as source. He is not a dev of TES lores anymore until he gets commissioned to do a lorebook by Bethesda and Zenimax. He is more of a fanfic writer if anything.

Ashilda_Dragonheart

Iluvrien wrote: »

Ashilda_Dragonheart wrote: »

People already walk around looking like the dwemer when they wear dwarven armor. The npcs don't really need to react to a Dwemer. I mean people can turn into werewolves right in front of npcs and the npcs don't care.

1) Wearing Dwemer armour and being a Dwemer are two different things.

2) You’re right. They need to fix those NPC reactions to werewolves.

They should add races that are more friendly. I guess I just want some more races, I don't care what they are.
2. Yeah they do, they should make it like it was in Skyrim.

Sylvermynx

I don't get why people need more races. I really don't. There are races I don't use - orcs, argonians, imperials in ESO. Well, I don't use orcs in any TES games either, or argonians. Imperials, I use them occasionally, but I just don't find them "simpatico". I can make any number of girls as Redguard, Dunmer, Bosmer, Breton, Khajiit though I usually stop at one each Altmer and Nord (as I don't find them particularly attractive, or fun - for whatever reason).

Each girl I make is herself - with her own look, backstory, raison d'être, way of speaking, preferred job and clothing/armor, pets, mounts.... every girl is a whole person. I RP them in my mind as I play the game.

Given all that though - if this was TES and one of the SPMR games.... yeah, no worries. But in a MMO, I'm just not interested.

TheInfernalRage

This timeline, no. They're gone. Maybe they'll come back in some other ES game.

TheShadowScout

Ashilda_Dragonheart wrote: »

Well, I guess if the races could be added and make everyone happy. That's what I want. For example, they could add the Sea Elves, because they are in the game, and maybe they could add a quest line for them too.

They could add those quite easily, much like imperials.
And as I mentioned in other places, they might go well with a "High Seas" expansion, or perhaps even one that might show us the outskirts of their lands in Pyandonea (though since they are way more xenophobic then the altmer, well... an isle between pyandonea and tamriel would make lot more sense)

Ashilda_Dragonheart wrote: »

They could also add the snow elves, because there are possibly some hidden groups of them still in existence, like in Skyrim.

Nope, the snow elves are "known" to be extinct, so snow elf PCs running around would be immersion- and lore-breaking.
At best we might see them like the ayleids... in flashback quests, and maaaaaaaybe a NPC or two who we find hiding.
All the rest of them have been turned into blind and nasty Falmer.

Ashilda_Dragonheart wrote: »

They don't necessarily have to add completely extinct races, but some unplayable races are in existence that could be used.

Indeed... as I said: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/422285/new-player-race-possibilities/p1

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I don't get why people need more races...

They don't.
People usually misuse the term "need".
But want...
...people -want- more races because it is more fun to have more -choices-!
And since new races could easily be refitted to existing characters with a token... it would be new choices -everyone- could benefit from, since you would not neccessarily need to make a new character... thus a wider range of potential customers to sell races to for ZOS.
And even those who do not feel the need for a new race at this time -might- get tempted at some point when they maybe see a new race, get envious or have a new character idea... so, even more profit for ZOS.

The pitfall is the lore... the elder scrolls setting is so nifty because of the lore, and thus many of the fans would react badly to too-lorebreaking stuff. I mean, we can deal with a "hero of tamriel" getting a refurbished dwemer mount from some grateful artificers (we saved the bacon of several of those during our questings after all), or a super-duper summoned magic mount because they helped out the mages guild, or some demigod somewhere... it is a bit strange, but somewhat plausible. Dwemer running around when we -know- from the TES-III:Morrowind lore that there has been -no- trace of them between the battle of red mountain and that conversation, and further... that would be a bad thing.
And as I outlined in the discussion above, there still are quite a few races that -are- lore plausible. More or less. At least for a "lone hero", the rarity of the sight facilitated by an increased crown cost and such...