Dwarves as a new race.

Chicharron

I believe Dwarves and or Dragons will be material for ESO 2, this game sooner rather than later will die, and without something attractive to offer, ESO 2 would be more of the same.

AuraNebula

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

It’s possible they never left, have been there all along, and that we interact with them often.

The heart was used to grant divinity. It might have done so to the dwemer. If only there were a countless number of divine beings floating around...

From the lore, dwemer care not one whit for the inconveniences of others, and make heavy demands such as taking the eyes and very faculties of the snow elves, turning their elf brothers into Falmer. How very daedric of an attitude.

And since time works differently for the Daedra, they easily might not be stuck in linear time.

They could have been turned into the daedric princes, Demi princes, etc.

They combined their souls to become the metal skin of the Numidium, and wanted other races to follow in their footsteps to become the limitless spirits everyone is a fragment of.

That's not fact but just a theory. A well thought out one, but we do not know that is exactly what happened to them.

Of course but it's the best theory we have, also was "confirmed" by Kirkbride if you put any stock into what he says. He wrote that lore but they could always change it I guess. I hope they don't because I really like that explaination

Uuntil it's in game it is not cannon. I dislike that most people just use it as cannon. Even if Krikbride confirmed it. I also don't like that explanation as it is pretty disappointing that the numidium is eventually destroyed and therefore the dwemer. It's just not that satisfying imo.

Just because it isn't in game now doesn't mean it won't be, lots of evidence in game towards that theory. They will probably never outright say it anyway. Also the Numidium is basically a god, destroying it is not the same as destroying the average Dwemer construct. Anything with the power to cause dragon breaks upon activation is not something that can be destroyed in such a mundane fashion. Also I agree I don't think we should take everything Kirkbride says as cannon *cough* KINMUNE *cough* but he still does influence the elder scrolls universe somewhat no matter if I or you like it or not. At this point it's going to have to come down to agree to disagree

I mean that's just an assumption that they will put it In game. There is a bit of evidence but it's not overwhelming it's bits and pieces put together to form a theory. It's just the most accepted theory by the community. However There is evidence In game that it was destroyed and no longer exists in Tamriel or even Nirn. There's also evidence that Azura could have had something to do with their disappearance.

Divayth Fir The Tribunal from Imperial Library.
" Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil are God Heroes, are they not? Self made upon using Kagrenacs tools upon Lorkhans Heart. Azura punished them and their people (yes including me!) The dark skin and fiery eyes is a visible and alarming remimder. Is this coincidence that happened upon breaking the oath? Azura is indeed thr culprit. Had the "Tribunal" not undergone this deed, Azura would have taken no action. Did Azura take the lives pf the Dwemer for attempting to use the Heart? A question only the goddess can answer, but I do not believe so. Nobody knows what plans Kagernac had for the heart. Perhaps Kagrenacs use of the heart was the undoing of the dwemer. Either by plan or mistake"

Even though Divayth doesn't fully believe Azura didn't he also does not know for certain that she did not.
I do agree that we will most likely never find out what actually happened to them.

Shezzarrine

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

It’s possible they never left, have been there all along, and that we interact with them often.

The heart was used to grant divinity. It might have done so to the dwemer. If only there were a countless number of divine beings floating around...

From the lore, dwemer care not one whit for the inconveniences of others, and make heavy demands such as taking the eyes and very faculties of the snow elves, turning their elf brothers into Falmer. How very daedric of an attitude.

And since time works differently for the Daedra, they easily might not be stuck in linear time.

They could have been turned into the daedric princes, Demi princes, etc.

They combined their souls to become the metal skin of the Numidium, and wanted other races to follow in their footsteps to become the limitless spirits everyone is a fragment of.

That's not fact but just a theory. A well thought out one, but we do not know that is exactly what happened to them.

Of course but it's the best theory we have, also was "confirmed" by Kirkbride if you put any stock into what he says. He wrote that lore but they could always change it I guess. I hope they don't because I really like that explaination

Uuntil it's in game it is not cannon. I dislike that most people just use it as cannon. Even if Krikbride confirmed it. I also don't like that explanation as it is pretty disappointing that the numidium is eventually destroyed and therefore the dwemer. It's just not that satisfying imo.

Just because it isn't in game now doesn't mean it won't be, lots of evidence in game towards that theory. They will probably never outright say it anyway. Also the Numidium is basically a god, destroying it is not the same as destroying the average Dwemer construct. Anything with the power to cause dragon breaks upon activation is not something that can be destroyed in such a mundane fashion. Also I agree I don't think we should take everything Kirkbride says as cannon *cough* KINMUNE *cough* but he still does influence the elder scrolls universe somewhat no matter if I or you like it or not. At this point it's going to have to come down to agree to disagree

I mean that's just an assumption that they will put it In game. There is a bit of evidence but it's not overwhelming it's bits and pieces put together to form a theory. It's just the most accepted theory by the community. However There is evidence In game that it was destroyed and no longer exists in Tamriel or even Nirn. There's also evidence that Azura could have had something to do with their disappearance.

Divayth Fir The Tribunal from Imperial Library.
" Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil are God Heroes, are they not? Self made upon using Kagrenacs tools upon Lorkhans Heart. Azura punished them and their people (yes including me!) The dark skin and fiery eyes is a visible and alarming remimder. Is this coincidence that happened upon breaking the oath? Azura is indeed thr culprit. Had the "Tribunal" not undergone this deed, Azura would have taken no action. Did Azura take the lives pf the Dwemer for attempting to use the Heart? A question only the goddess can answer, but I do not believe so. Nobody knows what plans Kagernac had for the heart. Perhaps Kagrenacs use of the heart was the undoing of the dwemer. Either by plan or mistake"

Even though Divayth doesn't fully believe Azura didn't he also does not know for certain that she did not.
I do agree that we will most likely never find out what actually happened to them.

I will refrain from making a counter point because this forum isn't for the lore and I feel we have gone too far already, but my point that the evidence IS in game doesn't mean it's overwhelming. Kirkbride wrote this lore, it was his intention all along and purposely put little bits here and there for the players to find and figure out the bigger picture. Not everything should or will be outright said, especially for Kirkbride written lore. Now Bethesda decides to go a different direction with that by all means they can, but until they do I'm going to believe what the man who wrote the cannon lore confirmed, it just fits too well with the known metaphysics. Also your quote only passively referances the Dwemer as an afterthought of the real point of it, not only that but I believe it is an out of game source anyway which you have problems with.

iiYuki

I hope not, the flaming horses and books from the wrong time zone are stupid but having thousands of dwarves, who have been gone for hundreds of years, running around is too lore breaking for me. Same with Ayleids.

LizziAS

corvair62 wrote: »

Bring in the FALMER!!!!!! Snow elves to the rescue......

We prefer the term snow elves because falmer has such a negative connotation......

and besidess, the falmer are all vampires with their eyes removed as a race

LizziAS

I thought all the dwemer were absconded into their self made brass god numidium?

Shezzarrine

LizziAS wrote: »

corvair62 wrote: »

Bring in the FALMER!!!!!! Snow elves to the rescue......

We prefer the term snow elves because falmer has such a negative connotation......

and besidess, the falmer are all vampires with their eyes removed as a race

Vampires? No, only the one in the Dawnguard dlc was a vampire. The rest are just devolved

LizziAS wrote: »

I thought all the dwemer were absconded into their self made brass god numidium?

And that's what we have been talking about above, it's the leading theory at the very least

AuraNebula

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

It’s possible they never left, have been there all along, and that we interact with them often.

The heart was used to grant divinity. It might have done so to the dwemer. If only there were a countless number of divine beings floating around...

From the lore, dwemer care not one whit for the inconveniences of others, and make heavy demands such as taking the eyes and very faculties of the snow elves, turning their elf brothers into Falmer. How very daedric of an attitude.

And since time works differently for the Daedra, they easily might not be stuck in linear time.

They could have been turned into the daedric princes, Demi princes, etc.

They combined their souls to become the metal skin of the Numidium, and wanted other races to follow in their footsteps to become the limitless spirits everyone is a fragment of.

That's not fact but just a theory. A well thought out one, but we do not know that is exactly what happened to them.

Of course but it's the best theory we have, also was "confirmed" by Kirkbride if you put any stock into what he says. He wrote that lore but they could always change it I guess. I hope they don't because I really like that explaination

Uuntil it's in game it is not cannon. I dislike that most people just use it as cannon. Even if Krikbride confirmed it. I also don't like that explanation as it is pretty disappointing that the numidium is eventually destroyed and therefore the dwemer. It's just not that satisfying imo.

Just because it isn't in game now doesn't mean it won't be, lots of evidence in game towards that theory. They will probably never outright say it anyway. Also the Numidium is basically a god, destroying it is not the same as destroying the average Dwemer construct. Anything with the power to cause dragon breaks upon activation is not something that can be destroyed in such a mundane fashion. Also I agree I don't think we should take everything Kirkbride says as cannon *cough* KINMUNE *cough* but he still does influence the elder scrolls universe somewhat no matter if I or you like it or not. At this point it's going to have to come down to agree to disagree

I mean that's just an assumption that they will put it In game. There is a bit of evidence but it's not overwhelming it's bits and pieces put together to form a theory. It's just the most accepted theory by the community. However There is evidence In game that it was destroyed and no longer exists in Tamriel or even Nirn. There's also evidence that Azura could have had something to do with their disappearance.

Divayth Fir The Tribunal from Imperial Library.
" Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil are God Heroes, are they not? Self made upon using Kagrenacs tools upon Lorkhans Heart. Azura punished them and their people (yes including me!) The dark skin and fiery eyes is a visible and alarming remimder. Is this coincidence that happened upon breaking the oath? Azura is indeed thr culprit. Had the "Tribunal" not undergone this deed, Azura would have taken no action. Did Azura take the lives pf the Dwemer for attempting to use the Heart? A question only the goddess can answer, but I do not believe so. Nobody knows what plans Kagernac had for the heart. Perhaps Kagrenacs use of the heart was the undoing of the dwemer. Either by plan or mistake"

Even though Divayth doesn't fully believe Azura didn't he also does not know for certain that she did not.
I do agree that we will most likely never find out what actually happened to them.

I will refrain from making a counter point because this forum isn't for the lore and I feel we have gone too far already, but my point that the evidence IS in game doesn't mean it's overwhelming. Kirkbride wrote this lore, it was his intention all along and purposely put little bits here and there for the players to find and figure out the bigger picture. Not everything should or will be outright said, especially for Kirkbride written lore. Now Bethesda decides to go a different direction with that by all means they can, but until they do I'm going to believe what the man who wrote the cannon lore confirmed, it just fits too well with the known metaphysics. Also your quote only passively referances the Dwemer as an afterthought of the real point of it, not only that but I believe it is an out of game source anyway which you have problems with.

I never said I had a problem with out of game sources. Just that they are not technically cannon. However this is most likely a comment from a developer from the old forums. So another possible theory yes. There are other quotes as well but since you don't want to divulge further I wont bother writing them out. Kirkbride is not the only Lore writer and has not been the main lore writer since Morrowind. I'm not saying he isnt amazing, because he most definitely is. Just that nothing is set in stone until it is in an actual Elder scrolls game. To tell people this is what happened and nothing else is just not true.

Number_51

Valrien wrote: »

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

I can see Wizhunter disappearing from his job and waking up in a brightly lit - yet comfortably appointed - British-style library deep beneath ZOS headquarters.

Sitting across from him, monocle perched and pipe in hand is Lawrence Schick. His rumbling bass tones announce, "So, Wiz. I understand you're under the impression that the Dwemer can just 'pop up' anywhere willy-nilly in the Elder Scrolls timeline. Care to comment?"

Anyone else ever wonder whether or not Lawrence Schick would make one hell of a DM for DnD?

I mean hell he LOOKs like a wizard

Since he was head of design and development at TSR, my guess is he'd be fantastic... or was your question asked with a wink and a nudge?

Davor

Wizhunter wrote: »

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Does it come with a magk flintlock?

I don't see a problem with them having old style Muskets and stuff infact I think it would add something to the game

I disagree. I want a Fantasy game, I don't want guns in my games. Crossbows, Yes, guns, No. I don't want TES or ESO to turn into bigger guns in each DLC.

Lore wise I don't see how we can have Dwarves in the game. Time travel back and play as a dwarf? Maybe, but then people will be upset that they can't keep playing them. If they were introduced in the game, I would like more like Tolkien dwarves than Games Workshop Dwarves with guns. Give me Lord of the Ring type Dwarves with NO guns at all if they are introduced please.

MooseKnuckles88

Dwarves are too OP please nerf

Davor

AlienSlof wrote: »

I would like to see a single player Elder Scrolls game set in the past exploring the Dwemer in more detail. One of the most interesting races and they're mostly extinct... :P

I think it would suit a single player setting more than ESO.

This I agree. Great Idea.

Davor

Hmmm.... How about a home Dwemer air ship?

goldenflameslinger

Lore can always be changed...someone could find a cave full of them, hiding under the Red Mountain. Bethesda/ZOS (or whoever “owns” the lore) can do whatever they want with it, whether we like it or not. If they can find a way to make money off of it, they just might!

I do miss the lack of LOTR type dwarves. Dunmers aren’t short or fat enough to take their place. I even have a toon named Gimli but he’s way too big!

Shezzarrine

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

It’s possible they never left, have been there all along, and that we interact with them often.

The heart was used to grant divinity. It might have done so to the dwemer. If only there were a countless number of divine beings floating around...

From the lore, dwemer care not one whit for the inconveniences of others, and make heavy demands such as taking the eyes and very faculties of the snow elves, turning their elf brothers into Falmer. How very daedric of an attitude.

And since time works differently for the Daedra, they easily might not be stuck in linear time.

They could have been turned into the daedric princes, Demi princes, etc.

They combined their souls to become the metal skin of the Numidium, and wanted other races to follow in their footsteps to become the limitless spirits everyone is a fragment of.

That's not fact but just a theory. A well thought out one, but we do not know that is exactly what happened to them.

Of course but it's the best theory we have, also was "confirmed" by Kirkbride if you put any stock into what he says. He wrote that lore but they could always change it I guess. I hope they don't because I really like that explaination

Uuntil it's in game it is not cannon. I dislike that most people just use it as cannon. Even if Krikbride confirmed it. I also don't like that explanation as it is pretty disappointing that the numidium is eventually destroyed and therefore the dwemer. It's just not that satisfying imo.

Just because it isn't in game now doesn't mean it won't be, lots of evidence in game towards that theory. They will probably never outright say it anyway. Also the Numidium is basically a god, destroying it is not the same as destroying the average Dwemer construct. Anything with the power to cause dragon breaks upon activation is not something that can be destroyed in such a mundane fashion. Also I agree I don't think we should take everything Kirkbride says as cannon *cough* KINMUNE *cough* but he still does influence the elder scrolls universe somewhat no matter if I or you like it or not. At this point it's going to have to come down to agree to disagree

I mean that's just an assumption that they will put it In game. There is a bit of evidence but it's not overwhelming it's bits and pieces put together to form a theory. It's just the most accepted theory by the community. However There is evidence In game that it was destroyed and no longer exists in Tamriel or even Nirn. There's also evidence that Azura could have had something to do with their disappearance.

Divayth Fir The Tribunal from Imperial Library.
" Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil are God Heroes, are they not? Self made upon using Kagrenacs tools upon Lorkhans Heart. Azura punished them and their people (yes including me!) The dark skin and fiery eyes is a visible and alarming remimder. Is this coincidence that happened upon breaking the oath? Azura is indeed thr culprit. Had the "Tribunal" not undergone this deed, Azura would have taken no action. Did Azura take the lives pf the Dwemer for attempting to use the Heart? A question only the goddess can answer, but I do not believe so. Nobody knows what plans Kagernac had for the heart. Perhaps Kagrenacs use of the heart was the undoing of the dwemer. Either by plan or mistake"

Even though Divayth doesn't fully believe Azura didn't he also does not know for certain that she did not.
I do agree that we will most likely never find out what actually happened to them.

I will refrain from making a counter point because this forum isn't for the lore and I feel we have gone too far already, but my point that the evidence IS in game doesn't mean it's overwhelming. Kirkbride wrote this lore, it was his intention all along and purposely put little bits here and there for the players to find and figure out the bigger picture. Not everything should or will be outright said, especially for Kirkbride written lore. Now Bethesda decides to go a different direction with that by all means they can, but until they do I'm going to believe what the man who wrote the cannon lore confirmed, it just fits too well with the known metaphysics. Also your quote only passively referances the Dwemer as an afterthought of the real point of it, not only that but I believe it is an out of game source anyway which you have problems with.

I never said I had a problem with out of game sources. Just that they are not technically cannon. However this is most likely a comment from a developer from the old forums. So another possible theory yes. There are other quotes as well but since you don't want to divulge further I wont bother writing them out. Kirkbride is not the only Lore writer and has not been the main lore writer since Morrowind. I'm not saying he isnt amazing, because he most definitely is. Just that nothing is set in stone until it is in an actual Elder scrolls game. To tell people this is what happened and nothing else is just not true.

I agree up until the bolded part, yes it's not set in stone but the man who wrote that specific piece of lore said and left evidence for that theory, so it can be said to be right until changed by Bethesda because it is in game in the form evidence. If someone writes lore, it doesn't matter if they leave that lore is still cannon until Beth wants to change it, which I wouldn't be surprised if they did so in the future. But until then the theory can pretty much be stated as what accually happened because that's what it was intended to be and has not been changed since then. But I do concede I should have mentioned it is not a set in stone explanation in my original post. But again, agree to disagree. We won't convince each other even though it was fun to have a little debate. Have a good one

Davor

goldenflameslinger wrote: »

Lore can always be changed...someone could find a cave full of them, hiding under the Red Mountain. Bethesda/ZOS (or whoever “owns” the lore) can do whatever they want with it, whether we like it or not. If they can find a way to make money off of it, they just might!

I do miss the lack of LOTR type dwarves. Dunmers aren’t short or fat enough to take their place. I even have a toon named Gimli but he’s way too big!

So true. Just look what happened to Star Wars.

Starlock

I do want to see an Elder Scrolls game set in the first era or Merethic Era where the Dwemer were flourishing.

I do not want to see lore broken haphazardly to make them a player character race in ESO.

Glurin

Shezzarrine wrote: »

LizziAS wrote: »

I thought all the dwemer were absconded into their self made brass god numidium?

And that's what we have been talking about above, it's the leading theory at the very least

And it's just that. A theory. Nobody knows for sure exactly what happened and that is what makes the dwemer so interesting. Personally I hope that it's one mystery that will never be solved.

Valrien

Davor wrote: »

Wizhunter wrote: »

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Does it come with a magk flintlock?

I don't see a problem with them having old style Muskets and stuff infact I think it would add something to the game

I disagree. I want a Fantasy game, I don't want guns in my games. Crossbows, Yes, guns, No. I don't want TES or ESO to turn into bigger guns in each DLC.

Lore wise I don't see how we can have Dwarves in the game. Time travel back and play as a dwarf? Maybe, but then people will be upset that they can't keep playing them. If they were introduced in the game, I would like more like Tolkien dwarves than Games Workshop Dwarves with guns. Give me Lord of the Ring type Dwarves with NO guns at all if they are introduced please.

What exactly defines a fantasy game then? Because a fantasy game can certainly have guns in it

Especially if someone's fantasy involves having a gun

Davor

Valrien wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Wizhunter wrote: »

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Does it come with a magk flintlock?

I don't see a problem with them having old style Muskets and stuff infact I think it would add something to the game

I disagree. I want a Fantasy game, I don't want guns in my games. Crossbows, Yes, guns, No. I don't want TES or ESO to turn into bigger guns in each DLC.

Lore wise I don't see how we can have Dwarves in the game. Time travel back and play as a dwarf? Maybe, but then people will be upset that they can't keep playing them. If they were introduced in the game, I would like more like Tolkien dwarves than Games Workshop Dwarves with guns. Give me Lord of the Ring type Dwarves with NO guns at all if they are introduced please.

What exactly defines a fantasy game then? Because a fantasy game can certainly have guns in it

Especially if someone's fantasy involves having a gun

More like Lord of the Rings or I should say Dungeons and Dragons. At least 30 or so years ago, I don't recall them ever having guns. Not sure if D&D have guns now or not.

Glurin

goldenflameslinger wrote: »

Lore can always be changed...

But it shouldn't. You start mucking about with the consistency of the lore of your fantasy world and the whole thing begins unraveling. It's very much like pulling threads out of a tapestry.

Starlock

Davor wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Wizhunter wrote: »

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Does it come with a magk flintlock?

I don't see a problem with them having old style Muskets and stuff infact I think it would add something to the game

I disagree. I want a Fantasy game, I don't want guns in my games. Crossbows, Yes, guns, No. I don't want TES or ESO to turn into bigger guns in each DLC.

Lore wise I don't see how we can have Dwarves in the game. Time travel back and play as a dwarf? Maybe, but then people will be upset that they can't keep playing them. If they were introduced in the game, I would like more like Tolkien dwarves than Games Workshop Dwarves with guns. Give me Lord of the Ring type Dwarves with NO guns at all if they are introduced please.

What exactly defines a fantasy game then? Because a fantasy game can certainly have guns in it

Especially if someone's fantasy involves having a gun

More like Lord of the Rings or I should say Dungeons and Dragons. At least 30 or so years ago, I don't recall them ever having guns. Not sure if D&D have guns now or not.

By and large, it doesn't. The exceptions prove the general rule; standard fantasy genre excludes guns implicitly. That said, in any tabletop RPG, the GM can take creative license to do whatever she wants.

Valrien

Starlock wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Wizhunter wrote: »

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Does it come with a magk flintlock?

I don't see a problem with them having old style Muskets and stuff infact I think it would add something to the game

I disagree. I want a Fantasy game, I don't want guns in my games. Crossbows, Yes, guns, No. I don't want TES or ESO to turn into bigger guns in each DLC.

Lore wise I don't see how we can have Dwarves in the game. Time travel back and play as a dwarf? Maybe, but then people will be upset that they can't keep playing them. If they were introduced in the game, I would like more like Tolkien dwarves than Games Workshop Dwarves with guns. Give me Lord of the Ring type Dwarves with NO guns at all if they are introduced please.

What exactly defines a fantasy game then? Because a fantasy game can certainly have guns in it

Especially if someone's fantasy involves having a gun

More like Lord of the Rings or I should say Dungeons and Dragons. At least 30 or so years ago, I don't recall them ever having guns. Not sure if D&D have guns now or not.

By and large, it doesn't. The exceptions prove the general rule; standard fantasy genre excludes guns implicitly. That said, in any tabletop RPG, the GM can take creative license to do whatever she wants.

DnD not necessarily (DDO however, the articifers have arm cannons that work similarly)

I must say though that Final Fantasy games do indeed have guns.

Point being, fantasy can have whatever the creator wants it to have in it. Because it's the creator's fantasy. The only requirement is that the fantasy be fantastical

Madhattr64

When you mention Dwarves I think of Cartman: I am the mightiest Dwarf in all of Azeroth.

AuraNebula

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Princessrhaenyra wrote: »

Shezzarrine wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

It’s possible they never left, have been there all along, and that we interact with them often.

The heart was used to grant divinity. It might have done so to the dwemer. If only there were a countless number of divine beings floating around...

From the lore, dwemer care not one whit for the inconveniences of others, and make heavy demands such as taking the eyes and very faculties of the snow elves, turning their elf brothers into Falmer. How very daedric of an attitude.

And since time works differently for the Daedra, they easily might not be stuck in linear time.

They could have been turned into the daedric princes, Demi princes, etc.

They combined their souls to become the metal skin of the Numidium, and wanted other races to follow in their footsteps to become the limitless spirits everyone is a fragment of.

That's not fact but just a theory. A well thought out one, but we do not know that is exactly what happened to them.

Of course but it's the best theory we have, also was "confirmed" by Kirkbride if you put any stock into what he says. He wrote that lore but they could always change it I guess. I hope they don't because I really like that explaination

Uuntil it's in game it is not cannon. I dislike that most people just use it as cannon. Even if Krikbride confirmed it. I also don't like that explanation as it is pretty disappointing that the numidium is eventually destroyed and therefore the dwemer. It's just not that satisfying imo.

Just because it isn't in game now doesn't mean it won't be, lots of evidence in game towards that theory. They will probably never outright say it anyway. Also the Numidium is basically a god, destroying it is not the same as destroying the average Dwemer construct. Anything with the power to cause dragon breaks upon activation is not something that can be destroyed in such a mundane fashion. Also I agree I don't think we should take everything Kirkbride says as cannon *cough* KINMUNE *cough* but he still does influence the elder scrolls universe somewhat no matter if I or you like it or not. At this point it's going to have to come down to agree to disagree

I mean that's just an assumption that they will put it In game. There is a bit of evidence but it's not overwhelming it's bits and pieces put together to form a theory. It's just the most accepted theory by the community. However There is evidence In game that it was destroyed and no longer exists in Tamriel or even Nirn. There's also evidence that Azura could have had something to do with their disappearance.

Divayth Fir The Tribunal from Imperial Library.
" Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil are God Heroes, are they not? Self made upon using Kagrenacs tools upon Lorkhans Heart. Azura punished them and their people (yes including me!) The dark skin and fiery eyes is a visible and alarming remimder. Is this coincidence that happened upon breaking the oath? Azura is indeed thr culprit. Had the "Tribunal" not undergone this deed, Azura would have taken no action. Did Azura take the lives pf the Dwemer for attempting to use the Heart? A question only the goddess can answer, but I do not believe so. Nobody knows what plans Kagernac had for the heart. Perhaps Kagrenacs use of the heart was the undoing of the dwemer. Either by plan or mistake"

Even though Divayth doesn't fully believe Azura didn't he also does not know for certain that she did not.
I do agree that we will most likely never find out what actually happened to them.

I will refrain from making a counter point because this forum isn't for the lore and I feel we have gone too far already, but my point that the evidence IS in game doesn't mean it's overwhelming. Kirkbride wrote this lore, it was his intention all along and purposely put little bits here and there for the players to find and figure out the bigger picture. Not everything should or will be outright said, especially for Kirkbride written lore. Now Bethesda decides to go a different direction with that by all means they can, but until they do I'm going to believe what the man who wrote the cannon lore confirmed, it just fits too well with the known metaphysics. Also your quote only passively referances the Dwemer as an afterthought of the real point of it, not only that but I believe it is an out of game source anyway which you have problems with.

I never said I had a problem with out of game sources. Just that they are not technically cannon. However this is most likely a comment from a developer from the old forums. So another possible theory yes. There are other quotes as well but since you don't want to divulge further I wont bother writing them out. Kirkbride is not the only Lore writer and has not been the main lore writer since Morrowind. I'm not saying he isnt amazing, because he most definitely is. Just that nothing is set in stone until it is in an actual Elder scrolls game. To tell people this is what happened and nothing else is just not true.

I agree up until the bolded part, yes it's not set in stone but the man who wrote that specific piece of lore said and left evidence for that theory, so it can be said to be right until changed by Bethesda because it is in game in the form evidence. If someone writes lore, it doesn't matter if they leave that lore is still cannon until Beth wants to change it, which I wouldn't be surprised if they did so in the future. But until then the theory can pretty much be stated as what accually happened because that's what it was intended to be and has not been changed since then. But I do concede I should have mentioned it is not a set in stone explanation in my original post. But again, agree to disagree. We won't convince each other even though it was fun to have a little debate. Have a good one

If you believe C0DA then technically everything is Canon. However then you could argue that the numidiums skin is not Canon if it doesn't fit your ideology. I doubt we'll every get a definite "This is what happened and this is why it happened" from Bethesda. Yes it was fun, thank you

Matthew_Galvanus

it's a no from me. considering that Zenimax at least tries to adhere to the lore, this simply would not work because the dwemer no longer reside on the plane of existence that houses tamriel, there wouldn't simply be some of them "hiding in a cave" when the dwemer disappeared it was all of them, every single one from the youngest child to the most ancient, all vanished in the exact same instant.

the only known dwemer who still exists was not on this plane of existence when the rest disappeared, hence why he is still around.

starkerealm

Queenmab wrote: »

There are lore issues with that idea, I believe. If I look at it independent of that though, I would love to see the Dwemer and get the story of their disappearance (more than just the hints we’ve had in the past).

But the problem is how are all the rando Dwemers now just running around Tamriel when they were thought to be extinct?

We've been straight up told what happened. They used Sunder and Keening on the Heart of Lorkhan, and miscalcuated somehow, resulting in the entire race either vaporizing or beaming up. Either way, there's no real mystery here. The only catch is, only a handful of people in the Third Era know this, and basically no one in the Second Era knows what happened.

But, no, there is no real mystery. The Dwarves tried to turn themselves into gods, screwed up, and were vaporized for their hubris.

UrQuan

Davor wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Wizhunter wrote: »

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Does it come with a magk flintlock?

I don't see a problem with them having old style Muskets and stuff infact I think it would add something to the game

I disagree. I want a Fantasy game, I don't want guns in my games. Crossbows, Yes, guns, No. I don't want TES or ESO to turn into bigger guns in each DLC.

Lore wise I don't see how we can have Dwarves in the game. Time travel back and play as a dwarf? Maybe, but then people will be upset that they can't keep playing them. If they were introduced in the game, I would like more like Tolkien dwarves than Games Workshop Dwarves with guns. Give me Lord of the Ring type Dwarves with NO guns at all if they are introduced please.

What exactly defines a fantasy game then? Because a fantasy game can certainly have guns in it

Especially if someone's fantasy involves having a gun

More like Lord of the Rings or I should say Dungeons and Dragons. At least 30 or so years ago, I don't recall them ever having guns. Not sure if D&D have guns now or not.

The AD&D 2e Players Handbook (published just over 30 years ago) had guns, as did many subsequent books. I don't remember if they were in any of the core books prior to that, but they were definitely included in some of the 1e Greyhawk adventure modules. Hell, the quasi-deity Heward (of Heward's Handy Haversack fame, and of course coming right out of Gary Gygax's original campaign) had his signature magical six-shooters.

starkerealm

UrQuan wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Wizhunter wrote: »

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Does it come with a magk flintlock?

I don't see a problem with them having old style Muskets and stuff infact I think it would add something to the game

I disagree. I want a Fantasy game, I don't want guns in my games. Crossbows, Yes, guns, No. I don't want TES or ESO to turn into bigger guns in each DLC.

Lore wise I don't see how we can have Dwarves in the game. Time travel back and play as a dwarf? Maybe, but then people will be upset that they can't keep playing them. If they were introduced in the game, I would like more like Tolkien dwarves than Games Workshop Dwarves with guns. Give me Lord of the Ring type Dwarves with NO guns at all if they are introduced please.

What exactly defines a fantasy game then? Because a fantasy game can certainly have guns in it

Especially if someone's fantasy involves having a gun

More like Lord of the Rings or I should say Dungeons and Dragons. At least 30 or so years ago, I don't recall them ever having guns. Not sure if D&D have guns now or not.

The AD&D 2e Players Handbook (published just over 30 years ago) had guns, as did many subsequent books. I don't remember if they were in any of the core books prior to that, but they were definitely included in some of the 1e Greyhawk adventure modules. Hell, the quasi-deity Heward (of Heward's Handy Haversack fame, and of course coming right out of Gary Gygax's original campaign) had his signature magical six-shooters.

And of course, there was d20 Modern with its example Glock 17 of Wounding. Though, that was more about taking D&D and putting it in an Urban Fantasy setting. Not sure if there are 5th edition rules for firearms though. (Or a 5th edition update of Urban Arcana or Shadow Chasers. I liked those campaign settings.)

AuraNebula

starkerealm wrote: »

Queenmab wrote: »

There are lore issues with that idea, I believe. If I look at it independent of that though, I would love to see the Dwemer and get the story of their disappearance (more than just the hints we’ve had in the past).

But the problem is how are all the rando Dwemers now just running around Tamriel when they were thought to be extinct?

We've been straight up told what happened. They used Sunder and Keening on the Heart of Lorkhan, and miscalcuated somehow, resulting in the entire race either vaporizing or beaming up. Either way, there's no real mystery here. The only catch is, only a handful of people in the Third Era know this, and basically no one in the Second Era knows what happened.

But, no, there is no real mystery. The Dwarves tried to turn themselves into gods, screwed up, and were vaporized for their hubris.

Or they succeed and become God's, maybe they did become to be the numindiums skin. Perhaps Azura angered at their Hubris snatched them and put them in another plane (She was at the Battle after all)

All these and them just vaporizing (Although no ash or pieces are left from their bodies and they cannot even be pulled from the dead by necromamcy) or getting beamed up are all theories. There is no concrete answer.