Split the 5 classes into 15 skill lines (choose 3), customize class?

Lyserus

Reason behind this:

1. 5 classes is enough for our current combat system, but not enough for roleplay/ game versatility or “play how you want.” However, a new class was proved to be a bad idea.

2. The skill lines don't nesssarily related for a single class, for example, ice/animal/nature, ice really is just there to fill a skill line, not something you expect every nature lover to master

3. Like I said the current combat system may work at the moment, but it has so few to improve upon. Since a new class is not gonna save it, you need an overhaul from what we have now.

Pros:
1.WAY more versatility for character build: 15 choose 3 means 455 possible combinations, and you are free to roleplay your own class （aedric+shadow+?=Yin-Yang priest etc）

2.More content. You should be able to learn class skill lines in the world, and make switch （with cost of a old skill line and some other stuff）if you want to. With this ZOS can create some new quests in the overland

3.Room for extension. New skill lines that fit certain scenes can be implemented. For example, bard, necromancer, certain nirn martial art etc. Unlike guild skill lines or other skill lines, you will need to carefully select the skill lines since you can only have 3 at a time.

4.No more “nerfing templar heal dk tank etc”. Class uniqueness is diminished for the “play how you want”, ZOS is trying to get every class some op heal or tank, but it just doesn't work （and making all classes essentially the same with different visual effect）. Make some skill lines for tanks, some for heals and some for dps, each have sth special but also overlap with each other with some extent （so a 3-heal skill line healer won't be too powerful compare to 2-heal etc）

Cons:
1.Need a big balance work when it's first introduced. After that balancing classes skill lines would be easier than now

DeadlyRecluse

It's a great idea on paper.

In practice, I don't want to fight anyone who has streak and cloak. Or curse, purifying light, and assassin's will.

...etc. etc.

The amount of rebalancing required would honestly be akin to creating a new game.

idk

That’s not a custom class. That’s essentially a plan to make one class and everything else is worthless.

Seriously. If you want good dps you’ll choose these three lines. End of story.

The entire idea would destroy diversity. Regardless of the banter in the forums there is diversity in PvP and PvE.

Lyserus

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

It's a great idea on paper.

In practice, I don't want to fight anyone who has streak and cloak. Or curse, purifying light, and assassin's will.

...etc. etc.

The amount of rebalancing required would honestly be akin to creating a new game.

That's why I said it'd require a big balance patch, since each class have a “OP” line that weighted more than the other 2.

Tho I do think it will probably just need 1 big patch to reach the current balance, then aftet some meta elimination （just like what we are doing now）, we will be good to go

Jhalin

That wouldn’t be ESO anymore, so hard no.

DMuehlhausen

Go play Rift.

Valrien

Jhalin wrote: »

That wouldn’t be ESO anymore, so hard no.

Yeah, people think this is a good idea on paper because it's more "elder scrollsy" but ESO has far more customization than any other Elder Scrolls game, even with the class system

Starlock

idk wrote: »

That’s not a custom class. That’s essentially a plan to make one class and everything else is worthless.

Seriously. If you want good dps you’ll choose these three lines. End of story.

The entire idea would destroy diversity. Regardless of the banter in the forums there is diversity in PvP and PvE.

Not everyone cares about "good dps" or has min-maxing gameplay priorities, so such changes would hardly destroy diversity. Those of us who don't care about min-maxing would enjoy an explosion of diversity, as it would enable us to create characters that we could previously only imagine and never realize in the game. There are several character ideas I have that I can't do properly because of the class system, but would work if I could combine skill lines across classes. Heck, there are several characters I have now that would be truer to their original concept if I could dump a skill line for one in a different class.

While it's a neat idea, @Lyserus , I just don't see it happening. While I'm probably the last person to care about the white whale called "balance," the current setup of skill lines isn't designed to synergize that way. It would require significant reworks of all existing skill lines, a long with a lot of new coding. A lot. Enough that I wouldn't dare ask it of the developers.

Salvas_Aren

Let's play ESO like Skyrim:

LMB, RMB, one key for ulti.

Then remove ults.

Game fixed.

Aleraon

Maybe they could have something in the champion system that would allow you to unlock a different class and you could then level those class skills and have the ability to switch between classes on the fly. Would certainly make the champion system more worthwhile instead of getting a 30 point increase every now and then.

Valrien

Aleraon wrote: »

Maybe they could have something in the champion system that would allow you to unlock a different class and you could then level those class skills and have the ability to switch between classes on the fly. Would certainly make the champion system more worthwhile instead of getting a 30 point increase every now and then.

What exactly is meant by "on the fly"?

During instances?

During combat?

Just in cities?

This is a very important distinction.

CyberSkooma

That way, the meta can get even more meta! Just what I wanted. Every DPS will be exactly the same... every Tank and healer will be exactly the same.

Alaztor91

I actually wouldn't be surprised if something like this ends up actually happening. ZOS has been homogenizing class skills for a while now, and they even said that they wanted each class to have 1 skill line for healing, 1 for tanking and 1 for dps, if they keep trying to ''normalize'' class skills to fit a mold(like taking cfrag and deep fissure stun away because of the whole high dmg instant cast skills can't have cc ''philosophy'') the next step would be normalizing dps(which they are already doing),healing and tanking capabilities, and then the only difference would be that X class has a blue visual, Y class has a red one and Z class has a yellow one and stuff like that.

SirAxen

Hard pass on this idea. But an insightful for putting some thought into it.

Valrien

Alaztor91 wrote: »

I actually wouldn't be surprised if something like this ends up actually happening. ZOS has been homogenizing class skills for a while now, and they even said that they wanted each class to have 1 skill line for healing, 1 for tanking and 1 for dps, if they keep trying to ''normalize'' class skills to fit a mold(like taking cfrag and deep fissure stun away because of the whole high dmg instant cast skills can't have cc ''philosophy'') the next step would be normalizing dps(which they are already doing),healing and tanking capabilities, and then the only difference would be that X class has a blue visual, Y class has a red one and Z class has a yellow one and stuff like that.

I think it's funny they call it a philosophy when they conveniently ignore it for Stamina builds.

LittlePinkDot

Lyserus wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

It's a great idea on paper.

In practice, I don't want to fight anyone who has streak and cloak. Or curse, purifying light, and assassin's will.

...etc. etc.

The amount of rebalancing required would honestly be akin to creating a new game.

That's why I said it'd require a big balance patch, since each class have a “OP” line that weighted more than the other 2.

Tho I do think it will probably just need 1 big patch to reach the current balance, then aftet some meta elimination （just like what we are doing now）, we will be good to go

They only make small balance changes at time when new content comes out. Theyre not going to do a whole redo because they cant charge more money for it. Its not a chapter or a DLC. Theyre not going to do anything that doesnt make financial sense.

Rungar

ESO should never of had classes, just roles.

Valrien

Rungar wrote: »

ESO should never of had classes, just roles.

have* and no, MMOs simply don't work without classes.

They just don't.

I have a distinct distain for people who think that ESO should be more like Skyrim.

dodgehopper_ESO

I would rather be able to obtain other class skill lines on top of the classes that already exist, but only if we can earn line by line, possibly to a limit.

At any regard, I find the Nays are adamant but at least here they are simply vehement without arguing the point why it is a horrible idea. State your reasons with more than a 1 or 2 line non sequitur. Make it a conversation instead of your bravado. =D

Personally I think it is a great idea because it would also help the developers analyze which class lines really stink and help them to work on those with greater seriousness. At the very least it would open up options to players with classes that may never see love.

Valrien

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I would rather be able to obtain other class skill lines on top of the classes that already exist, but only if we can earn line by line, possibly to a limit.

At any regard, I find the Nays are adamant but at least here they are simply vehement without arguing the point why it is a horrible idea. State your reasons with more than a 1 or 2 line non sequitur. Make it a conversation instead of your bravado. =D

Personally I think it is a great idea because it would also help the developers analyze which class lines really stink and help them to work on those with greater seriousness. At the very least it would open up options to players with classes that may never see love.

Do you mean something like subclasses? I like the idea of subclasses. I always have and I was hoping the morph system would be more like that upon the inception of the game.

DeadlyRecluse

Lyserus wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

It's a great idea on paper.

In practice, I don't want to fight anyone who has streak and cloak. Or curse, purifying light, and assassin's will.

...etc. etc.

The amount of rebalancing required would honestly be akin to creating a new game.

That's why I said it'd require a big balance patch, since each class have a “OP” line that weighted more than the other 2.

Tho I do think it will probably just need 1 big patch to reach the current balance, then aftet some meta elimination （just like what we are doing now）, we will be good to go

It's really more than just a balance issue though, imo. Or at any rate, a bigger balance adjustment than anything we've ever seen before.

Currently, skills (and skill lines) can be strong, but balanced due to weaknesses in the class. As soon as you let people pick class lines, that form of balancing goes away--which would be fine if it were just a matter of tweaking numbers up and down so no combination of 3x lines is wildly better than any other, but as soon as you include utility skills, that goes out the window.

In my first example (cloak+streak), mobility and invisibility are both very intangible benefits, but also very, very strong. Any kind of attempt to make them coexist on one toon is going to have to nerf them into uselessness and remove the dynamic, striking differences between classes.

Same with delayed burst skills, like in my second example. So you could just reduce the damage of all of those skills so that stacking them isn't effective, but then they are absolute trash in any other context, too.

The game is, like it or not, built around the class system. Everything has been bolted onto that for 4 years, at this point--removing it causes core issues in the combat, not just simple "balance" issues.

_Ahala_

Curse, Deep Fissure, Incap, Assassins Will, Impale... Perfectly balanced combo

RavenSworn

More weapon skill lines and more guild / world skill lines. Much better proposition.

Solariken

I support this. They can even keep the current class system for new characters and let players drop/add skill lines once at level 50.

Valrien

Solariken wrote: »

I support this. They can even keep the current class system for new characters and let players drop/add skill lines once at level 50.

Yeah, let's drop the "class homogenization" going on and just go full-on "everyone is the same!"

dodgehopper_ESO

Valrien wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I would rather be able to obtain other class skill lines on top of the classes that already exist, but only if we can earn line by line, possibly to a limit.

At any regard, I find the Nays are adamant but at least here they are simply vehement without arguing the point why it is a horrible idea. State your reasons with more than a 1 or 2 line non sequitur. Make it a conversation instead of your bravado. =D

Personally I think it is a great idea because it would also help the developers analyze which class lines really stink and help them to work on those with greater seriousness. At the very least it would open up options to players with classes that may never see love.

Do you mean something like subclasses? I like the idea of subclasses. I always have and I was hoping the morph system would be more like that upon the inception of the game.

That would work certainly. I'm sure you're familiar with @TheShadowScout 's idea.

Valrien

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I would rather be able to obtain other class skill lines on top of the classes that already exist, but only if we can earn line by line, possibly to a limit.

At any regard, I find the Nays are adamant but at least here they are simply vehement without arguing the point why it is a horrible idea. State your reasons with more than a 1 or 2 line non sequitur. Make it a conversation instead of your bravado. =D

Personally I think it is a great idea because it would also help the developers analyze which class lines really stink and help them to work on those with greater seriousness. At the very least it would open up options to players with classes that may never see love.

Do you mean something like subclasses? I like the idea of subclasses. I always have and I was hoping the morph system would be more like that upon the inception of the game.

That would work certainly. I'm sure you're familiar with @TheShadowScout 's idea.

Enlighten me. But if it's anything like Prestige in DnD then I'm already on board.

At the very least I think I'd like to see more customization in the form of Tier 3 morphs (in a way you can kinda see the framework for this system in the fact that the morphs for skills level up to level 4 and max out the bar, as if they're ready to be morphed again)

Universe

ezio45

nope, i would quit so fast. as someone who really loves my class and takes pride in it there are few things that would ruin this game for me quicker

BigBragg

Pass from me as well. I really am not interested in that level of homogenized gameplay.

TheShadowScout

Valrien wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I would rather be able to obtain other class skill lines on top of the classes that already exist, but only if we can earn line by line, possibly to a limit.

At any regard, I find the Nays are adamant but at least here they are simply vehement without arguing the point why it is a horrible idea. State your reasons with more than a 1 or 2 line non sequitur. Make it a conversation instead of your bravado. =D

Personally I think it is a great idea because it would also help the developers analyze which class lines really stink and help them to work on those with greater seriousness. At the very least it would open up options to players with classes that may never see love.

Do you mean something like subclasses? I like the idea of subclasses. I always have and I was hoping the morph system would be more like that upon the inception of the game.

That would work certainly. I'm sure you're familiar with @TheShadowScout 's idea.

Enlighten me. But if it's anything like Prestige in DnD then I'm already on board...

Well: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369966/class-morph-idea-mk-ii
And inded D&D prestige classes have been the inspiration of my idea...