Split the 5 classes into 15 skill lines (choose 3), customize class?

Wifeaggro13

Lyserus wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

Reason behind this:

1. 5 classes is enough for our current combat system, but not enough for roleplay/ game versatility or “play how you want.” However, a new class was proved to be a bad idea.

2. The skill lines don't nesssarily related for a single class, for example, ice/animal/nature, ice really is just there to fill a skill line, not something you expect every nature lover to master

3. Like I said the current combat system may work at the moment, but it has so few to improve upon. Since a new class is not gonna save it, you need an overhaul from what we have now.

Pros:
1.WAY more versatility for character build: 15 choose 3 means 455 possible combinations, and you are free to roleplay your own class （aedric+shadow+?=Yin-Yang priest etc）

2.More content. You should be able to learn class skill lines in the world, and make switch （with cost of a old skill line and some other stuff）if you want to. With this ZOS can create some new quests in the overland

3.Room for extension. New skill lines that fit certain scenes can be implemented. For example, bard, necromancer, certain nirn martial art etc. Unlike guild skill lines or other skill lines, you will need to carefully select the skill lines since you can only have 3 at a time.

4.No more “nerfing templar heal dk tank etc”. Class uniqueness is diminished for the “play how you want”, ZOS is trying to get every class some op heal or tank, but it just doesn't work （and making all classes essentially the same with different visual effect）. Make some skill lines for tanks, some for heals and some for dps, each have sth special but also overlap with each other with some extent （so a 3-heal skill line healer won't be too powerful compare to 2-heal etc）

Cons:
1.Need a big balance work when it's first introduced. After that balancing classes skill lines would be easier than now

No i dont thnk that will work all your gonna do is confuse the casuals even more and create super meta that half the damn server will never figure out or be able to play, then you will cry its too hard again and ask for mobs to die at your feet when they look at you.

It can be simply avoided by providing the original classes as "pre-sets" then they are free to change skill lines if they want to

only one MMO that i have seen truly do a classless system and do it well. that was the secret world. but they had a very very very defined role system and group content could not be completed with a pure DPS meta group. the content simply would not allow it . group make up was everything in its content.

Bladehawk

In a game already (seemingly) struggling with class identity and classes feeling distinct and different from each other, I don't think this is a good idea. However, if the game had been fashioned as more of an "Elder Scrolls with multiplayer" game from the start, then they probably wouldn't have created classes and would've gone with a system like this instead. As it stands, trying to change the game - entirely - to have something like this is quite the unlikely proposition.

Keep in mind that the only reason the absurd lack of character development limitations in single-player Elder Scrolls works is because they are single-player. No one cares if you're an almighty demigod who can fart lightning and shoot beams from your eyeballs while levitating giant boulders and conjuring weapons from thin air. That's called having fun as you annihilate thousands of hapless mudcrabs because you feel like it. But in an MMO, there's competition - either direct, as in PvP, or indirect, as in PvE performance - and with competition, there's a desire to be as strong or as effective as possible.

It's not the only reason to play, of course, as I'm sure some people here avoid PvP and/or PvE group content and the social constructs that exist within them. But it's something that you need to consider when designing the game. If your proposal was realized, then the best, and most unlikely, scenario would be that the difference between viable builds was so minimal that people felt like they could choose one of them based on aesthetics or fantasy. I agree that would be a better game to play, but it's so unlikely that it's not worth the effort (and substantial cost/risk) of trying.

f047ys3v3n

idk wrote: »

That’s not a custom class. That’s essentially a plan to make one class and everything else is worthless.

Seriously. If you want good dps you’ll choose these three lines. End of story.

The entire idea would destroy diversity. Regardless of the banter in the forums there is diversity in PvP and PvE.

Lemi see, siphoning line from NB, sorcs shock line, and DK's flame line.

newtinmpls

YES!!!!!

notyuu

Solariken wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Naysayers always expose their small-mindedness when this topic comes up.

Valrien wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

I support this. They can even keep the current class system for new characters and let players drop/add skill lines once at level 50.

Yeah, let's drop the "class homogenization" going on and just go full-on "everyone is the same!"

We have 5 possible combinations currently. With OP suggestion we would have 455 (or more if they add lines). Do you even think before posting?

And people will use this to cherry pick all the best parts from each class and then turn our 5 classes (each with a tank, healer, stam, and mag spec) into:
1 ultimate tank
1 ultimate healer
1 ultimate magicka dps
1 ultimate stamina dps

You basically turn 20 combinations into 4.

This would actually promote far less diversity. Please think about your ideas before posting them.

All you're doing right now is describing the status quo. These issues would lesson with more possible combinations.

I played a game called CO which offered this kind of system [as in pre-made classes as well as a custom class which you built using powers from the pre-mades] and...I hate to say it, but you're wrong as ***...give players the freedom to make whatever they want in the game and they will find the most optimal set which will dominate everything, it happened in CO [literally everybody that did high end content used the same 14 powers, same passive, same stats and same gear...due to it being the best] as they say in the game dev industry (and has been proven to be true on many occasions) "Give the player the chance and they will optimize the fun out of a game"

so as much as having class limitations sucks, they are needed to maintain the perfect imbalance where everybody needs somebody else to work properly, thus encouraging team play [at least if they bought NBs down off their high and *** mighty podium and took warderns out of the dirt it could work]

rexagamemnon

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Let's play ESO like Skyrim:

LMB, RMB, one key for ulti.

Then remove ults.

Game fixed.

#MAGA !!!!

Interesting concept, but im with President Donald Trump on this one. Now maybe having a skillline you can pic in addition to your 3standard skill lines that come with the class maybe that could work, but im no expert in game mechanics/balancing, thats why i leave it to better men

Linaleah

OP needs to go check out RIFT. or secret world possibly

also, just becasue there might be more possibly combinations, doesn't mean that all of those combinations will actualy be played. instead we are going to get even more of a rigid meta than what we have right now, while people who are too casual for meta will be even more confused.

Imperial_Voice

Valrien wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

That wouldn’t be ESO anymore, so hard no.

Yeah, people think this is a good idea on paper because it's more "elder scrollsy" but ESO has far more customization than any other Elder Scrolls game, even with the class system

Uuhh..ill agree to disagree on this but still, youre right in saying this idea is bad.

danno8

notyuu wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Naysayers always expose their small-mindedness when this topic comes up.

Valrien wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

I support this. They can even keep the current class system for new characters and let players drop/add skill lines once at level 50.

Yeah, let's drop the "class homogenization" going on and just go full-on "everyone is the same!"

We have 5 possible combinations currently. With OP suggestion we would have 455 (or more if they add lines). Do you even think before posting?

And people will use this to cherry pick all the best parts from each class and then turn our 5 classes (each with a tank, healer, stam, and mag spec) into:
1 ultimate tank
1 ultimate healer
1 ultimate magicka dps
1 ultimate stamina dps

You basically turn 20 combinations into 4.

This would actually promote far less diversity. Please think about your ideas before posting them.

All you're doing right now is describing the status quo. These issues would lesson with more possible combinations.

I played a game called CO which offered this kind of system [as in pre-made classes as well as a custom class which you built using powers from the pre-mades] and...I hate to say it, but you're wrong as ***...give players the freedom to make whatever they want in the game and they will find the most optimal set which will dominate everything, it happened in CO [literally everybody that did high end content used the same 14 powers, same passive, same stats and same gear...due to it being the best] as they say in the game dev industry (and has been proven to be true on many occasions) "Give the player the chance and they will optimize the fun out of a game"

so as much as having class limitations sucks, they are needed to maintain the perfect imbalance where everybody needs somebody else to work properly, thus encouraging team play [at least if they bought NBs down off their high and *** mighty podium and took warderns out of the dirt it could work]

It's funny because you begin by saying how an open system wouldn't work but at the end you give the real reason why any system can fail... poor balancing of skills.

Any system can work fine as long as developers set a strong goal of skill balance and are willing to constantly perform small changes to keep decent balance.

As for myself, I think an open system would be the way to go... 5 years ago. It's too late now and I wouldn't be willing to put up with a broken system for another year.

Also, people are imagining that skill lines would be copy pasted from how they are right now in game. Why would you think they couldn't be heavily tweaked from the current versions, or even contain passive weaknesses to keep them from being OP?

Lumenn

I don't know. I don't PvP(yet anyway) but this would probably draw me in. You never know what you're going to face and that unknown would be a strong pull for me. Is your theory crafting better than theirs? How to counter it next time....Unfortunately I COULD see this trivializing pve though unless mob skill sets were completely random as well.

Imryll

Lyserus wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

It's a great idea on paper.

In practice, I don't want to fight anyone who has streak and cloak. Or curse, purifying light, and assassin's will.

...etc. etc.

The amount of rebalancing required would honestly be akin to creating a new game.

That's why I said it'd require a big balance patch, since each class have a “OP” line that weighted more than the other 2.

Tho I do think it will probably just need 1 big patch to reach the current balance, then aftet some meta elimination （just like what we are doing now）, we will be good to go

And we all know that "rebalancing" would mean nerfing skills that are fun and effective to use. My spellbook is already full of abilities that used to be slot-worthy. I know that there are folks who find the experience of constantly running up against limitations to be an enjoyable challenge, but I'm not one of them. I want to have to pay attention as I quest, and to encounter challenging opponents, but I don't want to be thinking about cooldowns every time I annoy a wolf or mudcrab. Sometimes I just want to stroll on the beach.

FrancisCrawford

Guild Wars had something like this, but:

• There was no concept of passive skill, so the whole thing was easier to balance.
• There were considerable limitations on how you could mix/match skills.

Basically, it only made sense to take scalable damage or healing skills from your own class, but you could splash in some utility from one (and only one at a time) other one. E.g., if I was solo farming on my elementalist among mobs with knockdown, I'd splash the GW equivalent of Immovable from the warrior line.

The guild and alliance skills we splash into our builds in ESO are probably more significant than the splashed class skills in Guild Wars. Only in having a lot more skills for each of the class skill lines did Guild Wars have more diversity than ESO.