Split the 5 classes into 15 skill lines (choose 3), customize class?

Gilvoth

brandonv516 wrote: »

Yep I want this.

me 2, i hope it happens.
Zenimax, please remove classes and give this idea a chance.

Tonturri

It would only have any real drawbacks for people who min/max and push leaderboard scores. Everyone else would likely benefit.

And really, all pve dps are nightblades anyway plus one sorc, temp/warden healers and dk/warden tank. There really isn't much diversity to kill anyway if you play the meta.

People who play the meta will continue to play the meta. People who don't will not suddenly switch over to the bleeding edge whatever. Making like such a change will limit diversity is simply incorrect - the dk rank, warden/temp heal, nb dps + 1 sorc score pushing setup will just change. Probably constantly, and tbh that's better than what we currently have.

The_Brosteen

Do you want to get hit with a sub assault+jab+leap+implosion combo? Because thats how you get aids.

Solariken

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Do you want to get hit with a sub assault+jab+leap+implosion combo? Because thats how you get aids.

Not even possible, nor is it any more effective than Sub+DBoS+Slice.

MLGProPlayer

Solariken wrote: »

Naysayers always expose their small-mindedness when this topic comes up.

Valrien wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

I support this. They can even keep the current class system for new characters and let players drop/add skill lines once at level 50.

Yeah, let's drop the "class homogenization" going on and just go full-on "everyone is the same!"

We have 5 possible combinations currently. With OP suggestion we would have 455 (or more if they add lines). Do you even think before posting?

There will be only one meta build per role.

I mean, there already is right now, but at least now, you see a little more variety as people use whatever characters they have available. If everyone has access to every skill line, then we'll just have everyone running the same build as there will be no reason not to do it (right now, the reason is you don't have another fully levelled/geared character available).

Xerge

This would be the worst business decision ever.

ZOS designs this game based largely on business ideas and revenue.

This idea alienates their current player base and in order for the risk to be worth the reward they would need exceptional data to back it up; will they capture a larger player base with your idea?

No.

DuskMarine

just no and heres why. if this game was purely pve then this would be a great idea let us make our own classes like in morrowind and oblivion. but in a game where they try to do pve and pvp it wouldnt work out at all.

frostz417

This is a great idea, I would LOVE to fight someone who incaps me, followed by a crystal frag, then a deep fissure, followed by an assassins will bow.
Or better yet, fighting someone with a warden bear, 2 sorc pets, and maw of the infernal, spamming breath of life.
This ones another good one. Who’ thinks it’d be cool to fight someone with DK wings, total dark, and rune cage

dodgehopper_ESO

frostz417 wrote: »

This is a great idea, I would LOVE to fight someone who incaps me, followed by a crystal frag, then a deep fissure, followed by an assassins will bow.
Or better yet, fighting someone with a warden bear, 2 sorc pets, and maw of the infernal, spamming breath of life.
This ones another good one. Who’ thinks it’d be cool to fight someone with DK wings, total dark, and rune cage

CC's don't stack in this game. Your last idea is worthless.

Jeremy

Lyserus wrote: »

Reason behind this:

1. 5 classes is enough for our current combat system, but not enough for roleplay/ game versatility or “play how you want.” However, a new class was proved to be a bad idea.

2. The skill lines don't nesssarily related for a single class, for example, ice/animal/nature, ice really is just there to fill a skill line, not something you expect every nature lover to master

3. Like I said the current combat system may work at the moment, but it has so few to improve upon. Since a new class is not gonna save it, you need an overhaul from what we have now.

Pros:
1.WAY more versatility for character build: 15 choose 3 means 455 possible combinations, and you are free to roleplay your own class （aedric+shadow+?=Yin-Yang priest etc）

2.More content. You should be able to learn class skill lines in the world, and make switch （with cost of a old skill line and some other stuff）if you want to. With this ZOS can create some new quests in the overland

3.Room for extension. New skill lines that fit certain scenes can be implemented. For example, bard, necromancer, certain nirn martial art etc. Unlike guild skill lines or other skill lines, you will need to carefully select the skill lines since you can only have 3 at a time.

4.No more “nerfing templar heal dk tank etc”. Class uniqueness is diminished for the “play how you want”, ZOS is trying to get every class some op heal or tank, but it just doesn't work （and making all classes essentially the same with different visual effect）. Make some skill lines for tanks, some for heals and some for dps, each have sth special but also overlap with each other with some extent （so a 3-heal skill line healer won't be too powerful compare to 2-heal etc）

Cons:
1.Need a big balance work when it's first introduced. After that balancing classes skill lines would be easier than now

It's an interesting idea. What would probably happen is everyone would pick the strengths from each class to create the ultimate character. All the weaker class abilities would become obsolete and never used.

That being said: I'm not so sure that's such a bad thing as it might prompt the developers to strengthen certain abilities to make them good on their own without relying on class boundaries to prompt their use. Because It does seem to me that the actual design of the game itself and the limited options available to the player would make this kind of system workable.

dodgehopper_ESO

Jeremy wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

Reason behind this:

1. 5 classes is enough for our current combat system, but not enough for roleplay/ game versatility or “play how you want.” However, a new class was proved to be a bad idea.

2. The skill lines don't nesssarily related for a single class, for example, ice/animal/nature, ice really is just there to fill a skill line, not something you expect every nature lover to master

3. Like I said the current combat system may work at the moment, but it has so few to improve upon. Since a new class is not gonna save it, you need an overhaul from what we have now.

Pros:
1.WAY more versatility for character build: 15 choose 3 means 455 possible combinations, and you are free to roleplay your own class （aedric+shadow+?=Yin-Yang priest etc）

2.More content. You should be able to learn class skill lines in the world, and make switch （with cost of a old skill line and some other stuff）if you want to. With this ZOS can create some new quests in the overland

3.Room for extension. New skill lines that fit certain scenes can be implemented. For example, bard, necromancer, certain nirn martial art etc. Unlike guild skill lines or other skill lines, you will need to carefully select the skill lines since you can only have 3 at a time.

4.No more “nerfing templar heal dk tank etc”. Class uniqueness is diminished for the “play how you want”, ZOS is trying to get every class some op heal or tank, but it just doesn't work （and making all classes essentially the same with different visual effect）. Make some skill lines for tanks, some for heals and some for dps, each have sth special but also overlap with each other with some extent （so a 3-heal skill line healer won't be too powerful compare to 2-heal etc）

Cons:
1.Need a big balance work when it's first introduced. After that balancing classes skill lines would be easier than now

It's an interesting idea. What would probably happen is everyone would pick the strengths from each class to create the ultimate character. All the weaker class abilities would become obsolete and never used.

That being said: I'm not so sure that's such a bad thing as it might prompt the developers to strengthen certain abilities to make them good on their own without relying on class boundaries to prompt their use. Because It does seem to me that the actual design of the game itself and the limited options available to the player would make this kind of system workable.

The reasons you cite are why I think it could be a good thing.

Thrain

Lyserus wrote: »

Reason behind this:

1. 5 classes is enough for our current combat system, but not enough for roleplay/ game versatility or “play how you want.” However, a new class was proved to be a bad idea.

2. The skill lines don't nesssarily related for a single class, for example, ice/animal/nature, ice really is just there to fill a skill line, not something you expect every nature lover to master

3. Like I said the current combat system may work at the moment, but it has so few to improve upon. Since a new class is not gonna save it, you need an overhaul from what we have now.

Pros:
1.WAY more versatility for character build: 15 choose 3 means 455 possible combinations, and you are free to roleplay your own class （aedric+shadow+?=Yin-Yang priest etc）

2.More content. You should be able to learn class skill lines in the world, and make switch （with cost of a old skill line and some other stuff）if you want to. With this ZOS can create some new quests in the overland

3.Room for extension. New skill lines that fit certain scenes can be implemented. For example, bard, necromancer, certain nirn martial art etc. Unlike guild skill lines or other skill lines, you will need to carefully select the skill lines since you can only have 3 at a time.

4.No more “nerfing templar heal dk tank etc”. Class uniqueness is diminished for the “play how you want”, ZOS is trying to get every class some op heal or tank, but it just doesn't work （and making all classes essentially the same with different visual effect）. Make some skill lines for tanks, some for heals and some for dps, each have sth special but also overlap with each other with some extent （so a 3-heal skill line healer won't be too powerful compare to 2-heal etc）

Cons:
1.Need a big balance work when it's first introduced. After that balancing classes skill lines would be easier than now

such a great idea...
Then you will see 80% of all ppl in pvp are cloaking-birdspamming magplars
or whats about sreaking-wingspamming stamsorcs?

MerlinPendragon

No change necessary

JiKama

So I can be a pigeon flinging fire breathing blood mage? That would be quite the interesting character.

newtinmpls

I've been hoping for this since PC release

Agenericname

frostz417 wrote: »

This is a great idea, I would LOVE to fight someone who incaps me, followed by a crystal frag, then a deep fissure, followed by an assassins will bow.
Or better yet, fighting someone with a warden bear, 2 sorc pets, and maw of the infernal, spamming breath of life.
This ones another good one. Who’ thinks it’d be cool to fight someone with DK wings, total dark, and rune cage

I'd opt for summon shade and lose BoL since the matriarch can be used as a heal.

Krayl

Solariken wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Naysayers always expose their small-mindedness when this topic comes up.

I'm a naysayer, because it is logistically and financially impossible for the company to do what is being suggested. It's not "small minded" to understand how the process works. There are balance issues with sets and skills constantly addressed each and every patch 4+ years after the game launched. I'm not sure what makes anyone think they would open up this complete and utter nightmare scenario for a system that isn't broken whatsoever.

It's a cool idea! Never gonna happen though.

This concept is every bit as feasible as the implementation of the Champion system, battle leveling, Respec overhaul, and many other things that have been added over the years. I'm sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about.

Champion system and battle leveling are percentage based solutions layered on top of the existing design. The fact that they even exist in the format that they do only reinforces my point - BALANCE is the issue, and these systems stack on top of the base design and were created this way for that very reason - character skills and gear sets can be tweaked with predictable results in regards to them, and these systems need not be touched.

The fact that you even bring them up to rebut me speaks volumes in terms of which one of us doesn't know what they are talking about, as they are designed the way they are for the very reason that any tweaks to base class skills need to be predictable.

If you were to remove the walls between classes you create so many variables and permutations between skills and gear sets that the results would be unpredictable without hiring a huge staff of testers and the resources to implement them. The employees and time have a cost and that cost would be large. . . as well as not necessary, because plenty of people are happy with the way the game is now.

I have said that I agree that this is a cool idea. I would love to see it. The first MMO I ever played had no classes (Asheron's Call) and I 100% prefer that style of game. However, it will never happen here. This game does not bring in enough revenue to support the financial burden of completely revamping the core class skills and divisions between each of them in tandem with the gear sets available. There is zero reason a company would undertake such a burden for a system that is already working.

SilverIce58

Id be into this whole idea, if we had it done in the same manner as Archeage. You go to the places where the respec shrines are, and theres a new one that lets you change your skill lines. You can only have 3 active at a time, and it costs about 5k or so to swap. We wouldnt have to choose a class, and instead pick skill lines around what we want to do. Its very in line with how you choose your class in morrowind and oblivion. You choose skill lines that make up a class, and certain skill lines are part of certain classes.

Lyserus

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Id be into this whole idea, if we had it done in the same manner as Archeage. You go to the places where the respec shrines are, and theres a new one that lets you change your skill lines. You can only have 3 active at a time, and it costs about 5k or so to swap. We wouldnt have to choose a class, and instead pick skill lines around what we want to do. Its very in line with how you choose your class in morrowind and oblivion. You choose skill lines that make up a class, and certain skill lines are part of certain classes.

Sounds about right!

karekiz

A game called The Secret World did this with the ability wheel

<DPS> 99% of all builds were variations of the same build as a consequence. Reason being Ele force/hammer was just too good. So they became:
Chaos/Hammer - Ele force
Ele/Hammer - Ele force
AR/Hammer - Ele Force

Insert for each weapon type. It wasn't as fun as you think...

People already complain that weapons skill lines are too similar between classes, and the class identity feels lessened on Stamina characters. Would rather not push more towards that.

BigBragg

You know what we need? Less balance, more meta!!!

/s

Wifeaggro13

Lyserus wrote: »

Reason behind this:

1. 5 classes is enough for our current combat system, but not enough for roleplay/ game versatility or “play how you want.” However, a new class was proved to be a bad idea.

2. The skill lines don't nesssarily related for a single class, for example, ice/animal/nature, ice really is just there to fill a skill line, not something you expect every nature lover to master

3. Like I said the current combat system may work at the moment, but it has so few to improve upon. Since a new class is not gonna save it, you need an overhaul from what we have now.

Pros:
1.WAY more versatility for character build: 15 choose 3 means 455 possible combinations, and you are free to roleplay your own class （aedric+shadow+?=Yin-Yang priest etc）

2.More content. You should be able to learn class skill lines in the world, and make switch （with cost of a old skill line and some other stuff）if you want to. With this ZOS can create some new quests in the overland

3.Room for extension. New skill lines that fit certain scenes can be implemented. For example, bard, necromancer, certain nirn martial art etc. Unlike guild skill lines or other skill lines, you will need to carefully select the skill lines since you can only have 3 at a time.

4.No more “nerfing templar heal dk tank etc”. Class uniqueness is diminished for the “play how you want”, ZOS is trying to get every class some op heal or tank, but it just doesn't work （and making all classes essentially the same with different visual effect）. Make some skill lines for tanks, some for heals and some for dps, each have sth special but also overlap with each other with some extent （so a 3-heal skill line healer won't be too powerful compare to 2-heal etc）

Cons:
1.Need a big balance work when it's first introduced. After that balancing classes skill lines would be easier than now

No i dont thnk that will work all your gonna do is confuse the casuals even more and create super meta that half the damn server will never figure out or be able to play, then you will cry its too hard again and ask for mobs to die at your feet when they look at you.

Red_Feather

I would love if each class got an 'abbreviated' shared skill line that could be shared with other classes. Then zos could pick what class skills can go into that skill line to be shared.

So there could be an 'aspect of the dragonknight' skill line that you could earn from a really tough challenge. And it could let you use a couple of select dragonknight skills regardless of class.

MehrunesFlagon

frostz417 wrote: »

This is a great idea, I would LOVE to fight someone who incaps me, followed by a crystal frag, then a deep fissure, followed by an assassins will bow.
Or better yet, fighting someone with a warden bear, 2 sorc pets, and maw of the infernal, spamming breath of life.
This ones another good one. Who’ thinks it’d be cool to fight someone with DK wings, total dark, and rune cage

I see the amount of re,tarded builds increasing if this happens.

karekiz

Red_Feather wrote: »

I would love if each class got an 'abbreviated' shared skill line that could be shared with other classes. Then zos could pick what class skills can go into that skill line to be shared.

So there could be an 'aspect of the dragonknight' skill line that you could earn from a really tough challenge. And it could let you use a couple of select dragonknight skills regardless of class.

We already have shared skill lines. They call them guilds.

Red_Feather

karekiz wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

I would love if each class got an 'abbreviated' shared skill line that could be shared with other classes. Then zos could pick what class skills can go into that skill line to be shared.

So there could be an 'aspect of the dragonknight' skill line that you could earn from a really tough challenge. And it could let you use a couple of select dragonknight skills regardless of class.

We already have shared skill lines. They call them guilds.

Then armour, weapon, guild, world, alliance, crafting are shared because every class can use them. What is your point? Are you shooting down what I said for any reason you can think of with no effort.

RedrunnerFred

Since there have been concerns about the ease of cherrypicking skills I have a solution. Everybody should be able to pick a base class and for that singular class, they gain their three skillines as normal. For cross-class skills the cost to purchase a skill would be increased. Let us just throw a number in 2 skillpoints per skill/ morph while the ultimate is 3/skill and morph. This way people will have to invest more time and effort into attaining the combos they want. To swap base class skillines with those of other classes one must pay a large amount of gold to a shrine like maybe 100k per line. An idea of how to unlock different classes may be through rare item fragments attained in special quests that could be sold and traded to other players for a high price. Who knows Zos may even be able to monetize this in the crown store.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

What an horrible idea
And they are actualy people that think its a good idea

Lyserus

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

Reason behind this:

1. 5 classes is enough for our current combat system, but not enough for roleplay/ game versatility or “play how you want.” However, a new class was proved to be a bad idea.

2. The skill lines don't nesssarily related for a single class, for example, ice/animal/nature, ice really is just there to fill a skill line, not something you expect every nature lover to master

3. Like I said the current combat system may work at the moment, but it has so few to improve upon. Since a new class is not gonna save it, you need an overhaul from what we have now.

Pros:
1.WAY more versatility for character build: 15 choose 3 means 455 possible combinations, and you are free to roleplay your own class （aedric+shadow+?=Yin-Yang priest etc）

2.More content. You should be able to learn class skill lines in the world, and make switch （with cost of a old skill line and some other stuff）if you want to. With this ZOS can create some new quests in the overland

3.Room for extension. New skill lines that fit certain scenes can be implemented. For example, bard, necromancer, certain nirn martial art etc. Unlike guild skill lines or other skill lines, you will need to carefully select the skill lines since you can only have 3 at a time.

4.No more “nerfing templar heal dk tank etc”. Class uniqueness is diminished for the “play how you want”, ZOS is trying to get every class some op heal or tank, but it just doesn't work （and making all classes essentially the same with different visual effect）. Make some skill lines for tanks, some for heals and some for dps, each have sth special but also overlap with each other with some extent （so a 3-heal skill line healer won't be too powerful compare to 2-heal etc）

Cons:
1.Need a big balance work when it's first introduced. After that balancing classes skill lines would be easier than now

No i dont thnk that will work all your gonna do is confuse the casuals even more and create super meta that half the damn server will never figure out or be able to play, then you will cry its too hard again and ask for mobs to die at your feet when they look at you.

It can be simply avoided by providing the original classes as "pre-sets" then they are free to change skill lines if they want to

Katahdin

Sounds like a disaster

No thanks