class change, and how to approach it

AhPook_Is_Here

I think it's a good idea. Achievements have the side-effect of making a character sticky to the player, and making alts less attractive. A class change token seems like a no-brainer when it comes to customer retention. Giving people a way out of arbitrary changes, even if you charge them for it, will be better business then telling your consumer to suck it up and take a break till your class comes back around down the road.

rafaelcsmaia

So now they're nerfing shields, can we get the token and avoid a massive loss of player base?

starkerealm

Wing wrote: »

the how:
-could be done in game but most likely going to be a token
-should obviously change your class to the new desired class but at class level 0, you still need to level the class, this is to prevent day one level 50's compared to everyone else actually leveling a new character.

This isn't the problem with "how." The game is not designed around the idea of changing the player's class, and doing so would be incredibly messy on the backend.

Or, put another way:

SydneyGrey

n/m

White wabbit

Lol people leaving the game what rubbish , I've seen people come back to the game, people come and go depending what games are our there and with what's happening in there life

Iluvrien

DanteYoda wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Why do people want to play an MMO like a MOBA?

Because modern customers have less time to play and don't want to waste months on mistakes.. Because the company totally changes their classes for good and bad.. And because choices are paramount in keeping a playerbase from getting stagnant and leaving..

1) If players have the chance to “waste months” then they don’t have less time to play. They just have less patience.

2) Why would the company not accelerate the pace of changes to classes if every large batch of changes made them money in class change tokens?

3) Player choice and player indecision are two different things.


Edit: Removal of pointless snark

Datthaw

It's all about the money my man. If they put something that that in game accessible then youre not gonna pull out that wallet to get it via crowns.

MaleAmazon

We do have class change.

It´s called an alt

No but really, it takes less than a week to level up a char to lvl 50 CP XXX.

I don´t mind it myself, but I am against, in general, catering to the flavour of the month players. It´s bad enough when the IC event is 90% stamsorcs and every death recap is 'dizzying swing haunting curse light attack repeat'. We don´t need people to be able to effortlessly switch into that.

Universe

It's easy, just don't approach it!

Priyasekarssk

I hardly doubt NB or DK allow it to happen

Apherius

I would instantly switch for MagNB.

Universe

Apherius wrote: »

I would instantly switch for MagNB.

Everyone will
That's the problem

Septimus_Magna

I can only support class change if it resets all skill lines and Alliance War ranks. The price should also be pretty high, like 15.000 crowns or more.

GallantGuardian

Nyladreas wrote: »

I really don't understand the opposition from some people...

I can bet you my life that these same people, the complainers, would be one of the very first ones to buy a class change token.

Also some of you are missing the larger point of the argument.... People have mains, that one character they've done literally everything on and hold some form of achievement connection with. There's a ton of those.

Why should such person, should they be unhappy with their class or simply getting bored of their current class after playing it for some 4+ years, make a new character and start entirely from scratch? It doesn't even make sense.

Not to mention ZOS would profit from this.

People on here just complain or argue for the sake of complaining lol. I swear...

Ppl used to oppose weapon color changing ... they rather then just not using a system others might. They will complain and oppose anything just to be contrarians

With that said I don’t want it I want them to just open the classes to everyone and change the racial passives to just Passives we all can use so we can have total customization

Nic727

I’m actually templar and only play one character. When they introduced guardian, I wish I could change class.

I’m Templar because it was a support/healing class, but I love nature and I think guardian is a good mix of healing/attack class and is a better match for my wood elve.

Plz allow us to change class with a token and redistribute our skills points according to the equivalent one in the new class.

MLGProPlayer

Get rid of classes.

Bouldercleave

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Btw the horse is not dead until some zos representative comments in such posts, which i haven't seen in any lol

That's going to be one everlasting horse then. If you are waiting to kill the horse until a rep comments, it will outlive us all!

ezio45

FOR THE HORDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cuz zos killed my sorc :'(

rafaelcsmaia

ezio45 wrote: »

FOR THE HORDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cuz zos killed my sorc :'(

Ye I hear you, 30k achievement points down the drain if I choose to play another character. One time only class changes would be understandable.

Nic727

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Get rid of classes.

Actually, I think it would be a great idea if they just get rid of classes and add a true skill tree that you can develop the way you want.

TheShadowScout

Wing wrote: »

however, I do wish class change to become a thing in ESO...

...even tho the powers that be are on record saying they never intend to do this? Oh, well, they could always change their mind, I just would not recommend holding your breath...

But let's play "Daedric Advocate" here for a bit...

Wing wrote: »

-could be done in game but most likely going to be a token

Cannot be done in-game.
Since as I understand it, the game setup cannot easily make "replace X with Y" changes in-game, since the pile of data that is your basic character info seems un-editable while "in use", aka, loaded into the game. See namechange, racechange, etc. And classchange would definitely be one of those...

Wing wrote: »

-should obviously change your class to the new desired class but at class level 0, you still need to level the class, this is to prevent day one level 50's compared to everyone else actually leveling a new character.

That one is a bit more questionable... after all, take your character all geared up with CP-160 gear, all having done the "growth" quests where you get those item drops for the lowbie levels already... and then set it all to 0, making you unable to use your old stuff and without the chance to get gear that way...

Better would be keeping the -class- level at 50, but resetting all the -class skills- to 0. Then you can still use all your nifty gear, but have to raise your class skills all over again, any way you like. And I hope that is what you actually meant...

Wing wrote: »

-some people only play one character (just like some people play 12, neither way is wrong)

...and yet still want to get everything?
Not that I am really opposed to this, actually. I just think there should be more consideration...

Now, for the "one character" people I would assume they have the option to try each combination (on the PTS, or as "testbed alt"), and then pick the one they feel is most fun for them and declare that their "character" with which they play through all of the game while forgetting about their "prototype" alts (possibly using name and appearance change to redo that new "main" into what they want to represent themselves with).

More of an argument for this would be that class changes remove one grand vexation that would make adding more classes a bad idea. But the powers that be do not -have- to add new stuff as -classes-; there are many other ways for them to add new life to the game, ways that all characters cound benefit from... ways which might actually be more fun then just having more classes enter the game that late after launch.

Another argument would be that it might encourage people to change their class chasing the changing FOTM; which can be both an argument for or against this... and we know that if they added classchange, they would start messing with classes a lot more, to -encourage- people to pay for changing...

Kanar wrote: »

The how: it's not allowed and never will be.
The why: it's unnecessary and a waste of dev time.

And that is how it is.
Will it be like this forever?
That is up to the people at ZOS.
We are just... brainstorming about what could be here...

But yeah, it is true that no MMORPG I ever played offered something like that. Most have post chargen namechange, some also allow racechange, and nearly all have some sort of respec mechanic... but class change? Oh, there might be some, perhaps, but... it would be pretty rare from what I know.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I can understand if you just said you don't like the idea of class change, but personally I find class change a lot less offensive than racial change or sex change. You're talking about immutable characteristics being changed for money, whereas a class is just a skill set. Why can't you learn new skills?

Ah, but you can. Psijic skill line for example. And they could always add more, like class specializations, new guilds or additional weapon skills...

But classchange is not "learning new skills", it would be... replacing your old skills with new skills. Like a surgeon that suddenly wakes up having no idea about medicine and surgery, but kniwing every law and legal precedent in and out. Or a engineer who suddenly has no idea about how building stuff works, but knows every detail about farming and animal husbandry...

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

In all reality though I find the whole notion of the way classes were implemented in ESO to be crap. Its WoW thinking and certainly not Elder Scrolls thinking. I can totally understand why Zaric says some of the things he says. I certainly let them know in Beta I would have preferred open classes. Unfortunately, they were committed to certain themepark design plans.

I get you there, and kinda agree - even the classes in older TES games were not as solid as some, just... starting points.
Alas... this ship has sailed, ben set on fire and sunk a long time ago.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Class isn't the only 'on the rails' problem I have with ESO either. Every play through of the game feels almost exactly like the last apart from some slight combat differences between the classes. The story line is on the rails. There are no competing factions and no real meaningful choices. We really lost something between what was pitched in year one and when they finally released the Legerdemain skill line. I enjoyed what was offered by they never delivered on that Cops 'n' Robbers gameplay that they were going to offer us. Once Thieves Guild was released the deal was sealed. The sad truth is that the Iron Wheel were a truly interesting faction that could have been playable.

YES!
I totally agree with that one!
The game would have been -hugely- improved by having -meaningful- choices!

By having various -different- ways to complete a quest! Not a railroaded questline, but multiple ways, a combat way through the quest, a stealth option, and a social option would be the least... and also way more variations in other ways (like some of the newer dwelve dailies give random daily quests instead of always the same for more varietee)

By making your -character- matter! make things different depending on your chargen choices, have some races get a shortcut on some quests (like among NPCs of their own race for example, a "cousin bonus" so to speak), while some other races should have to jump through extra hoops to win the trust of the NPCs (like... dunmer in shadowfen having to convince the argonians they are really here to help and not sizing them up for manacles, or ALL cross-faction races...)! Make some characters have options others do not (I adored the bit in the housing quest where you could give one NPC the "dark brotherhood stare" and they would give you what you wanted right away), make some characters get better rewards and so on...

By making your choices -matter-! And not just dialouge options, but... later quests being different depending on earlier choices. Much earlier choices in some instances... spare a NPC here, get help to bypass an annoying sidequest in a much later map, kill someone there, get an encounter with a disdrought widow seeking vengeance later on, do this, get a shortcut, do that, get an annoying extra sidequest, do this, get an extra reward, do that, have this later quest be different in some way... etc.

And yes, also having "either-or" options as to guild selection. Have both the option to join the TG for the questline we got, or being able to join the iron wheel and deal with the exact same issue from the other side, find out and expose the merchant princes dark secret while dealing with corruption in the ranks and overzealous fello officers of the law... Having both the option to join the dark brotherhood, or help out the order of the hour where you fight against the former, yet stumble over the hypocricy among them and getting in a position where you have to do something about it... join the Psijic order, or maybe instead get offered membership in some other group that happens to pursue the same goals...

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

ESO could stand to live up to the promise a little more, and honestly I don't think it would be that hard. Focus on the story first. Think about that story and think up fun gameplay construction around that. The story should be logical and fit a flow that matches the previous tales and for goodness sake it would be nice if some choice was involved even if it were Skyrim level of choices (which were pretty bad all things considered when compared with Morrowind).

Yeah. Alas... they did not ask us when they made this, and are not likely to invest the resources to change everything at this point, huh?
Well, maybe some other game, someday. Until then, ESO is pretty nifty even if it is not as grnad as it could have been...

Vapirko

xskinzcity wrote: »

Lazy people are lazy. Takes no effort leveling to 50. Only skill points, mages guild and undaunted takes a bit. Game is easy enough as it is. Btw I have a max leveled character of every class already since the beginning of these "class change" threads.

Playing video games is kind of as lazy as it gets, so calling people lazy for not wanting to sit in a chair and redo the exact same content again and again is sort of a self defeating argument. And again, as I’ve stated in many other threads, a class change token isn’t mandatory. Those who’d rather spend their time doing other things in game or irl can use it. Those who prefer to spend time leveling another toon, gathering all necessary skill lines and sky shards and spending 6 months leveling their riding skillls would still be welcome to do so.

FauxHunter

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

-could be done in game but most likely going to be a token

Cannot be done in-game.
Since as I understand it, the game setup cannot easily make "replace X with Y" changes in-game, since the pile of data that is your basic character info seems un-editable while "in use", aka, loaded into the game. See namechange, racechange, etc. And classchange would definitely be one of those...

Could and would be done with a token though

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

-some people only play one character (just like some people play 12, neither way is wrong)

Now, for the "one character" people I would assume they have the option to try each combination (on the PTS, or as "testbed alt"), and then pick the one they feel is most fun for them and declare that their "character" with which they play through all of the game while forgetting about their "prototype" alts (possibly using name and appearance change to redo that new "main" into what they want to represent themselves with).

Another argument would be that it might encourage people to change their class chasing the changing FOTM; which can be both an argument for or against this... and we know that if they added classchange, they would start messing with classes a lot more, to -encourage- people to pay for changing...

Sadly, no. Current one-character players may well have started before the new Warden class was announced. That means potentially 3 years of investment into a decided upon class, character, achievements, etc. with the inability to swap to the new class that may be a way better fit for the player We will most likely see more classes added to the game in time as well, meaning more time invested in a character. This is strong evidence in my opinion that ZOS may eventually add CC tokens as classes are added.

Also to your second point here...most hardcore PvP players that would chase the FotM, already have a max CP character of each class. A class change token would be of no advantage to them

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

The how: it's not allowed and never will be.
The why: it's unnecessary and a waste of dev time.

But yeah, it is true that no MMORPG I ever played offered something like that. Most have post chargen namechange, some also allow racechange, and nearly all have some sort of respec mechanic... but class change? Oh, there might be some, perhaps, but... it would be pretty rare from what I know.

Star Wars Galaxes, a very well known and popular game in its time, allowed paid class changes

Banana

I did want this for a long time. But then sorcerers got the hose so now it doesnt worry me.

TheShadowScout

FauxHunter wrote: »

Sadly, no. Current one-character players may well have started before the new Warden class was announced. That means potentially 3 years of investment into a decided upon class, character, achievements, etc. with the inability to swap to the new class that may be a way better fit for the player

Yeah, same for people who played a main since launch, but might have found a warden a better fit for their backstory because they are ice mages, or nature lovers, or whatnot, ICly.

CC would not be entirely a bad idea, its true. The main question is, would they make enough profit from offering it to make it worth their while to code, yes?

FauxHunter wrote: »

We will most likely see more classes added to the game in time as well...

Gods, I hope not...
I really, really hope they will wise up and keep towards adding skill lines instead, one way or another...

TheShadowScout wrote: »

And they could always add more, like class specializations, new guilds or additional weapon skills...

FauxHunter wrote: »

This is strong evidence in my opinion that ZOS may eventually add CC tokens as classes are added.

No evidence at all. At best, an hypothesis that maybe someday they might consider it.

The only "evidence" we have is a comment from the developers at an ESO live ages past that they are still considering alliance change, but never intend to add class change.

But... they have changed their mind about other things, so its not inconcievable they might someday change their mind about this as well.

FauxHunter wrote: »

Also to your second point here...most hardcore PvP players that would chase the FotM, already have a max CP character of each class. A class change token would be of no advantage to them

Some might, others possibly not... be that as it may. I just mentioned it because people always bring up the point.
Not that its a solid point against class change anyhow, since all it takes to balance that is making the CC token expensive enough...

FauxHunter wrote: »

Star Wars Galaxes, a very well known and popular game in its time, allowed paid class changes

Like I said, "there might be some". Since I got internet fast enough for online gaming in my little country town only at a time when SWG was already in decline, I never got to play that, and a great many others... but the ones I did play, well... none of them had it. So I still stand on the "its rare" comment, yes?

idk

Nyladreas wrote: »

I really don't understand the opposition from some people...

I can bet you my life that these same people, the complainers, would be one of the very first ones to buy a class change token.

Also some of you are missing the larger point of the argument.... People have mains, that one character they've done literally everything on and hold some form of achievement connection with. There's a ton of those.

Why should such person, should they be unhappy with their class or simply getting bored of their current class after playing it for some 4+ years, make a new character and start entirely from scratch? It doesn't even make sense.

Not to mention ZOS would profit from this.

People on here just complain or argue for the sake of complaining lol. I swear...

It does seem you are one of those people.

1. While I am not complaining but I will not be one of those people. I have no reason to do so . I expect Zos will add it eventually when they need to due to falling revenue. Zos makes money off many players rolling alts which also tends to increase play time, another benefit for MMORPGs longevity. I would never suggest betting your life. It is an empty comment.

2. your only reasoning provided here would be easily solved with account wide achievements, which has been suggested.

Nyladreas

idk wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

I really don't understand the opposition from some people...

I can bet you my life that these same people, the complainers, would be one of the very first ones to buy a class change token.

Also some of you are missing the larger point of the argument.... People have mains, that one character they've done literally everything on and hold some form of achievement connection with. There's a ton of those.

Why should such person, should they be unhappy with their class or simply getting bored of their current class after playing it for some 4+ years, make a new character and start entirely from scratch? It doesn't even make sense.

Not to mention ZOS would profit from this.

People on here just complain or argue for the sake of complaining lol. I swear...

It does seem you are one of those people.

1. While I am not complaining but I will not be one of those people. I have no reason to do so . I expect Zos will add it eventually when they need to due to falling revenue. Zos makes money off many players rolling alts which also tends to increase play time, another benefit for MMORPGs longevity. I would never suggest betting your life. It is an empty comment.

2. your only reasoning provided here would be easily solved with account wide achievements, which has been suggested.

You need to learn how to think about things in a much less direct way, in a less literal way. Or just think outside the box more.

Every post or response you make tells me you almost refuse to think beyond what was actually written, as if everything was soulless & meaningless text, and I mean this with absolutely no offense towards you.

That or you may be disabled or simply just trolling. Otherwise I don't get it. It will help a lot of people wanting meta play on their mains, more likely than not bring back some old players, and even allow a nice change for people who really care about their ONLY charcter, or are simply completionists.

Some people are just unhappy with the direction their class has gone in the last couple of years and DON'T want to make a different character. Not because it's too Hard. But because they have some sort of attachment to their main.

Account-wide achievements are actually what most of US DO NOT WANT. We want to do them all on one character, without making any other character AT ALL.

RavenSworn

DanteYoda wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

The how: it's not allowed and never will be.
The why: it's unnecessary and a waste of dev time.

ESO community at its best.. Defeatist..

Can be done easily just needs a class change token which wipes skills... But no for some odd reason ESO is stuck in 2002...

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Why do people want to play an MMO like a MOBA?

Because modern customers have less time to play and don't want to waste months on mistakes.. Because the company totally changes their classes for good and bad.. And because choices are paramount in keeping a playerbase from getting stagnant and leaving..


Its not rocket science...

Vesper_BR wrote: »

The solution to this thread is making achievements account wide...

Plain and simple

Or wiping them.. Seems a fair loss imo..

That bolded part... I'm sorry what? Less time to play? There's now so many technological advances to increase your playing time. Your car is faster now, you can predict traffic, you can basically get 'press and forget' meals. You basically are able to play the game straight from work with almost no cool down (pun intended).

Choices ARE paramount in keeping a player base but it has to be MEANINGFUL choices. It cannot be "let's have options because... Options!". You have to make decisions and accept the consequences and results of those decisions.

Here's the thing, what might work well in another mmo might not fit or even be successful in another. What @Sheezabeast asked was right; why do you play an mmo, a genre so much different than a moba, like a moba? Alot of players have this thinking that there is this max level endgame that you would traditionally have in eso whereas in fact, the "endgame" started the moment you create that char. You literally can bring a lvl 10 to a trial if you wanted to because there is no level restrictions now. You can travel to any part of the map as long as you have the way shrine to it.

It all boils down to having meaningful choices. It's one thing to have skill respecs but it's another when you have class change. Accessibility breeds indifference. When you invest enough time and effort into something, it then has value and worth.

Also a real world analogy: you were working as an aircraft engineer for ten years. You've received all the accolades. Then you feel disgruntled with the job, you want to move on to another job maybe an architect. Whatever you have earned as an engineer would have nuts for value when you are starting the new job. You've gain experience but that experience would count for nothing in terms of paper value. What you have is work ethics, social values and an easier understanding of workload and priorities, things that aren't quantifiable.

Joy_Division

If ZOS did do this, people would complain - loudly - that it was too expensive.

It's one of those situation that they'll take heat for doing something people claim they'd follow up on and probably why they never even hinted to us they were thinking of doing this.

notimetocare

The proper way to approach class change: Dont
Second option: Reset everything except name and appearance