class change, and how to approach it

Wing

queue the horde (or legion if your on that side) of people with "dead horse" or "do we need another x" comments

however, I do wish class change to become a thing in ESO and would like to put forward some points as to the why and how.

the how:
-could be done in game but most likely going to be a token
-should obviously change your class to the new desired class but at class level 0, you still need to level the class, this is to prevent day one level 50's compared to everyone else actually leveling a new character.

the why:
-some people only play one character (just like some people play 12, neither way is wrong)
-expanding that further, why do people only play one character?

the sheer amount of content that a person has to complete on a new character can be daunting (sky shards, skill books, undaunted, mages guild, fighters guild, alliance war, thieves guild, dark brother hood, etc. etc. the list goes on) maybe they don't have the time but want to experience new things or things they paid for. maybe they regret their class choice but are too invested in their character (like race change etc.) maybe they like only having one character. maybe they would just keep changing their class over and over for the fun of leveling up new stuff or playing differently for a bit. maybe they are dread flavor of the month players that want to jump over to the current OP as fast as possible (in that case, do we rally care?)

im also curious from a stat point of view what ZoS would do given the information, say the stats showed that a large number of templars were changing their class, and a large number of players were also switching to dragon knights? would they look more in depth at these changes and ask why?

should there be a small survey attached to a class or race change tokens asking why? is it power reasons, graphics (particle effects do matter) because a class is new? role play reasons, do they mostly pve or pvp, vet dungeons or trials or neither? etc.

from my point of view anything that better allows players to play how they want or what they want (and in tern have fun) and also possibly give the devs insight into what players are changing to what is a good thing.

I feel like this is going to come out eventually, a lot of money can be made off of it if nothing else, I just hope its implemented properly and the information used to better the game.

Royaji

Do we really need another class change thread?

Stop beating the dead horse.

dodgehopper_ESO

It might also be nice if people are frustrated with the development of a class over the course of 4 years and want a change out.

Wing

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

It might also be nice if people are frustrated with the development of a class over the course of 4 years and want a change out.

true, magicka wardens seem to feel pretty neglected too.

Kanar

The how: it's not allowed and never will be.
The why: it's unnecessary and a waste of dev time.

Drako_Ei

I have deleted and re-created 4 characters, because of class/alliance changes

I would have paid over 10k crowns for that to ZoS, gladly, but ZoS doesnt want my money right?

rafaelcsmaia

There we go again, 90% trash talk from this point on now.

Really, with how *** easy is to max a toon (i did one in 4 hours, 8 with mages and psijic) there is no "game impact reason" not to do it. One may say "zos can use the dev time better" ok true, but they will profit anyway.

Btw the horse is not dead until some zos representative comments in such posts, which i haven't seen in any lol

dodgehopper_ESO

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

There we go again, 90% trash talk from this point on now.

Really, with how *** easy is to max a toon (i did one in 4 hours, 8 with mages and psijic) there is no "game impact reason" not to do it. One may say "zos can use the dev time better" ok true, but they will profit anyway.

Btw the horse is not dead until some zos representative comments in such posts, which i haven't seen in any lol

This isn't the same though if you have a character with 30,000 achievement points and are disgusted with the direction of the class. You can't reasonably compare a well developed character that has been through everything to some piece of crap character you powerleveled. They are not remotely the same are they? I can understand if you just said you don't like the idea of class change, but personally I find class change a lot less offensive than racial change or sex change. You're talking about immutable characteristics being changed for money, whereas a class is just a skill set. Why can't you learn new skills? There's a major logic leap that fails to get crossed in this type of thinking. In all reality though I find the whole notion of the way classes were implemented in ESO to be crap. Its WoW thinking and certainly not Elder Scrolls thinking. I can totally understand why Zaric says some of the things he says. I certainly let them know in Beta I would have preferred open classes. Unfortunately, they were committed to certain themepark design plans.

On the matter of developer time the OP is frankly suggesting what I consider the lazy solution for the Developers. What I really want is Open classes of the mindset of Skyrim, Oblivion, and Morrowind. I'm fairly certain I'm not alone in this mindset. I can't even comprehend how someone who played Morrowind would want to be stuck in a specific class. Class isn't the only 'on the rails' problem I have with ESO either. Every play through of the game feels almost exactly like the last apart from some slight combat differences between the classes. The story line is on the rails. There are no competing factions and no real meaningful choices. We really lost something between what was pitched in year one and when they finally released the Legerdemain skill line. I enjoyed what was offered by they never delivered on that Cops 'n' Robbers gameplay that they were going to offer us. Once Thieves Guild was released the deal was sealed. The sad truth is that the Iron Wheel were a truly interesting faction that could have been playable. I'm well aware that there are cost issues involved but the ultimate ending to both stories could have been very similar to one another. The tasks could have been similar, but ultimately the gameplay experience could have been divergent. Maybe I want to be a disgusting villainous scumbag vampire-thief-assassin on one character. Perhaps the next time around it might be nice to be something more heroic? No that's not an option. You saved Nirn but for the most part all of your characters are filthy villains. You apparently are also Molag Bal's champion and you do help him win, because despite having lost your soul to him and fought so hard to regain it, you all become Vampires just so you're in service to him for eternity once again. In terms of writing that is just bad narrative creation. I could go on about some of the bad narratives in the game as well. They don't do Vanus Galerion justice at all. Mannimarco is Snidely Whiplash with banana skin and pointy ears. Every Nord can't find his pants and is mostly dumb as rocks.

ESO could stand to live up to the promise a little more, and honestly I don't think it would be that hard. Focus on the story first. Think about that story and think up fun gameplay construction around that. The story should be logical and fit a flow that matches the previous tales and for goodness sake it would be nice if some choice was involved even if it were Skyrim level of choices (which were pretty bad all things considered when compared with Morrowind).

Taleof2Cities

Royaji wrote: »

Do we really need another class change thread?

Stop beating the dead horse.

OP missed this post or is conveniently ignoring it ... most likely the latter.

rafaelcsmaia

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

There we go again, 90% trash talk from this point on now.

Really, with how *** easy is to max a toon (i did one in 4 hours, 8 with mages and psijic) there is no "game impact reason" not to do it. One may say "zos can use the dev time better" ok true, but they will profit anyway.

Btw the horse is not dead until some zos representative comments in such posts, which i haven't seen in any lol

This isn't the same though if you have a character with 30,000 achievement points and are disgusted with the direction of the class. You can't reasonably compare a well developed character that has been through everything to some piece of crap character you powerleveled. They are not remotely the same are they? I can understand if you just said you don't like the idea of class change, but personally I find class change a lot less offensive than racial change or sex change. You're talking about immutable characteristics being changed for money, whereas a class is just a skill set. Why can't you learn new skills? There's a major logic leap that fails to get crossed in this type of thinking. In all reality though I find the whole notion of the way classes were implemented in ESO to be crap. Its WoW thinking and certainly not Elder Scrolls thinking. I can totally understand why Zaric says some of the things he says. I certainly let them know in Beta I would have preferred open classes. Unfortunately, they were committed to certain themepark design plans.

On the matter of developer time the OP is frankly suggesting what I consider the lazy solution for the Developers. What I really want is Open classes of the mindset of Skyrim, Oblivion, and Morrowind. I'm fairly certain I'm not alone in this mindset. I can't even comprehend how someone who played Morrowind would want to be stuck in a specific class. Class isn't the only 'on the rails' problem I have with ESO either. Every play through of the game feels almost exactly like the last apart from some slight combat differences between the classes. The story line is on the rails. There are no competing factions and no real meaningful choices. We really lost something between what was pitched in year one and when they finally released the Legerdemain skill line. I enjoyed what was offered by they never delivered on that Cops 'n' Robbers gameplay that they were going to offer us. Once Thieves Guild was released the deal was sealed. The sad truth is that the Iron Wheel were a truly interesting faction that could have been playable. I'm well aware that there are cost issues involved but the ultimate ending to both stories could have been very similar to one another. The tasks could have been similar, but ultimately the gameplay experience could have been divergent. Maybe I want to be a disgusting villainous scumbag vampire-thief-assassin on one character. Perhaps the next time around it might be nice to be something more heroic? No that's not an option. You saved Nirn but for the most part all of your characters are filthy villains. You apparently are also Molag Bal's champion and you do help him win, because despite having lost your soul to him and fought so hard to regain it, you all become Vampires just so you're in service to him for eternity once again. In terms of writing that is just bad narrative creation. I could go on about some of the bad narratives in the game as well. They don't do Vanus Galerion justice at all. Mannimarco is Snidely Whiplash with banana skin and pointy ears. Every Nord can't find his pants and is mostly dumb as rocks.

ESO could stand to live up to the promise a little more, and honestly I don't think it would be that hard. Focus on the story first. Think about that story and think up fun gameplay construction around that. The story should be logical and fit a flow that matches the previous tales and for goodness sake it would be nice if some choice was involved even if it were Skyrim level of choices (which were pretty bad all things considered when compared with Morrowind).

Dude I think u got me wrong, im all in favor of the tokens, I have almost 30k achievement points rofl

Salvas_Aren

I believe that all that crown change stuff is stupid. However, if they ever implement it, feel free to pay for it. LoL

I definitely see no reason why you should not change class as well. Maybe they can't figure out how to convert class skills. Easy solution: Include an automated respec and reset class skills to 1.

Banana

Just do it ZOS. I need it. I have no interest or time doing everything again.

Skinzz

Lazy people are lazy. Takes no effort leveling to 50. Only skill points, mages guild and undaunted takes a bit. Game is easy enough as it is. Btw I have a max leveled character of every class already since the beginning of these "class change" threads.

Acrolas

Alliance and Class changes are the two items they've been firm against offering flexibility for, most likely because they don't want players chasing short-term solutions to perceived problems. And with gifting in place, there are a few more temptations to cheat your way to a solution. ZOS won't notice a little bit of casual automated farming, right?

Acknowledge that every single class has several weaknesses. Then instead of focusing solely on maximizing your strengths, also focus on how you can minimize your weaknesses. They'll still be there, but the most responsive players out there know how to not let their opponents get a clean shot at a vulnerability.

Drdeath20

xskinzcity wrote: »

Lazy people are lazy. Takes no effort leveling to 50. Only skill points, mages guild and undaunted takes a bit. Game is easy enough as it is. Btw I have a max leveled character of every class already since the beginning of these "class change" threads.

Right no skill at all. I got grand overlord on 8 of my characters in 4 hours. Game is soo easy. Cant believe anyone would want to do anything else other than live on eso lolz

idk

Wing wrote: »

queue the horde (or legion if your on that side) of people with "dead horse" or "do we need another

It is interesting how someone say we need to do X and I happen to know just how to do it then follows that with the line I quoted above. Then does not really explain how but merely tried to make a reason for the change.

But seriously. I know just how to do class change and it is to not do it. To explain why we will not do it is because Zos makes more money of players making alts. They buy more costumes, mounts and especially mount training.

Not everyone spends more money. Heck, not everyone spends money on this game. In the end Zos would have to price class change beyond what would be an attractive price making is bad business.

Besides. Those who totally restrict themselves to one character do not seem to be a large number in the game. Not much incentive for Zos.

Davor

Royaji wrote: »

Do we really need another class change thread?

Stop beating the dead horse.

Uhm. Why not let people do what they want. After all you don't have to read this and just move on. If anyone who beats a dead horse are the people who keep saying it.

MrGarlic

I don't care either way, I have 2 accounts and over 20 characters to overcome this limitation, but it still amazes me how people are OK with a characters total change of DNA and genetic structure; their entire biology, but vehemently refuse to let their character change jobs.

Nyladreas

I really don't understand the opposition from some people...

I can bet you my life that these same people, the complainers, would be one of the very first ones to buy a class change token.

Also some of you are missing the larger point of the argument.... People have mains, that one character they've done literally everything on and hold some form of achievement connection with. There's a ton of those.

Why should such person, should they be unhappy with their class or simply getting bored of their current class after playing it for some 4+ years, make a new character and start entirely from scratch? It doesn't even make sense.

Not to mention ZOS would profit from this.

People on here just complain or argue for the sake of complaining lol. I swear...

Acrolas

Davor wrote: »

Uhm. Why not let people do what they want.

You mean like letting the actual developers of the intellectual property develop the intellectual property in the way that they intend to? This forum is not a consumer democracy. Fan ideas, even popular ones, are nothing more than fan ideas.

Vesper_BR

The solution to this thread is making achievements account wide...

Plain and simple

dodgehopper_ESO

Acrolas wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Uhm. Why not let people do what they want.

You mean like letting the actual developers of the intellectual property develop the intellectual property in the way that they intend to? This forum is not a consumer democracy. Fan ideas, even popular ones, are nothing more than fan ideas.

Logic: Customer feedback is meaningless. Companies should just do whatever they like regardless of what the player base is interested in. A company would never be interested in what the customer wants. That's a horrible idea. In fact you make a good point. There should be no forums at all because they're getting too much of this free customer feedback that they don't want.

Acrolas

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

In fact you make a good point. There should be no forums at all because they're getting too much of this free customer feedback that they don't want.

Twitter and Instagram really are more than enough for consumer engagement. And as they're running promotions on those platforms as opposed to the forums, I would say that these forums serve no calculable purpose.

Other than small scale PVP, of course.

Aesthier

Acrolas wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

In fact you make a good point. There should be no forums at all because they're getting too much of this free customer feedback that they don't want.

Twitter and Instagram really are more than enough for consumer engagement. And as they're running promotions on those platforms as opposed to the forums, I would say that these forums serve no calculable purpose.

Other than small scale PVP, of course.

If they converted to Twitter and Instagram as the only sources for feedback I would instantly cancel my subscription and sell my game account.

Heimpai

Kanar wrote: »

The how: it's not allowed and never will be.
The why: it's unnecessary and a waste of dev time.

Waste of time? What have they been busy with? Sorry i only play Cyrodil and it feels like they have plenty of time

White wabbit

God how many threads on this subject

Acrolas

Aesthier wrote: »

If they converted to Twitter and Instagram as the only sources for feedback I would instantly cancel my subscription and sell my game account.

Yes, let's keep the forum and announce to everyone that you would illegally transfer your account under certain conditions of your choosing.

Priyasekarssk

Royaji wrote: »

Do we really need another class change thread?

Stop beating the dead horse.

When many people leaving the game and many put accounts for sale . Yes its not dead horse. Give or players will leave. When other MMOs are giving it for free , why not ?

ZOs doesn't require NBs & DKs advise on this, if they want to save the game from players leaving.

Sheezabeast

Why do people want to play an MMO like a MOBA?

Salvas_Aren

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Uhm. Why not let people do what they want.

You mean like letting the actual developers of the intellectual property develop the intellectual property in the way that they intend to? This forum is not a consumer democracy. Fan ideas, even popular ones, are nothing more than fan ideas.

Logic: Customer feedback is meaningless. Companies should just do whatever they like regardless of what the player base is interested in. A company would never be interested in what the customer wants. That's a horrible idea. In fact you make a good point. There should be no forums at all because they're getting too much of this free customer feedback that they don't want.

Big Zeni is not Apple.

DanteYoda

Kanar wrote: »

The how: it's not allowed and never will be.
The why: it's unnecessary and a waste of dev time.

ESO community at its best.. Defeatist..

Can be done easily just needs a class change token which wipes skills... But no for some odd reason ESO is stuck in 2002...

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Why do people want to play an MMO like a MOBA?

Because modern customers have less time to play and don't want to waste months on mistakes.. Because the company totally changes their classes for good and bad.. And because choices are paramount in keeping a playerbase from getting stagnant and leaving..


Its not rocket science...

Vesper_BR wrote: »

The solution to this thread is making achievements account wide...

Plain and simple

Or wiping them.. Seems a fair loss imo..