Bleeds Are Overpowered

LeifErickson

casparian wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I play no cp so maybe it's very different,

It is very different. Bleeds were balanced with the existence of Thick-Skinned and Hardy in mind, and in general ZOS has balanced the game around the existence of CP. If bleeds are overpowered in the absence of CP, that's a problem with ZOS' "balance the game around CP but remove them from an entire game mode" model -- not bleeds.

There are also stars buffing bleeds though so it evens out.

leepalmer95

I've given up on balanced in this game.

But i was ticking someone for 2.8ks with a rending bleed in non cp, so yeah balance.

Sanctum74

People make it sound like there's these unkillable god mode bleed builds running around cyrodil killing everyone in seconds and that's just not the case. Keep your buffs and hot's up and kill them before they kill you. It's a fighting game, fight back that's your counter.

technohic

I’m stumped when I read “ I have no problems with any other build but bleed builds “ and advocate for a nerf. Shouldn’t everything have a problem with at least one thing?

It’s actually kind of why I was kind of ok with Sloads against my NB when it broke cloak. I built to deal with it with troll king and lingering pots so I wasn’t screwed without cloak. Now I can go more glass again short of someone having mark target.

Waffennacht

Don't you understand?

Tank Meta over

Time to adjust to a new Meta.

Just because your build is no longer the fotm meta doesn't mean everything needs to be nerfed again

Edit:

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I've given up on balanced in this game.

But i was ticking someone for 2.8ks with a rending bleed in non cp, so yeah balance.

How is this an issue? That's still only 10% of their health in dmg, combined with a 5k hit that's still only 30% of health total.

If your opponent can't deal with 30%-50% burst and can't recover, they need to get out of PvP

Crixus8000

technohic wrote: »

I’m stumped when I read “ I have no problems with any other build but bleed builds “ and advocate for a nerf. Shouldn’t everything have a problem with at least one thing?

I said something similar in my post beause of how I have built my char. I have been forced to go so defensive due to bleeds/sloads that not many builds can damage me enough 1v1. But of course I am sacrificing dmg to achieve this. That's why I hate bleeds so much. I am going all out heals/defence yet they still melt me, that's why I said they have no counter play. You can't block them, can't resist them and you can't outheal them because no one is healing 5k hp a second.

godchucknzilla

The damage needs to be adjusted. It's too high currently. Master Weapons.

WreckfulAbandon

Crixus8000 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I’m stumped when I read “ I have no problems with any other build but bleed builds “ and advocate for a nerf. Shouldn’t everything have a problem with at least one thing?

I said something similar in my post beause of how I have built my char. I have been forced to go so defensive due to bleeds/sloads that not many builds can damage me enough 1v1. But of course I am sacrificing dmg to achieve this. That's why I hate bleeds so much. I am going all out heals/defence yet they still melt me, that's why I said they have no counter play. You can't block them, can't resist them and you can't outheal them because no one is healing 5k hp a second.

You are so wrong there, my orc stamden hits over 4k weapon damage and passively does around that amount before troll king proc

Passively as in, green lotus, FM, lingering health, and non troll king procced health regen.

When I pop vigor and troll king procs, good luck without befoul. Also rockin major vitality and seventh legion. The first time I tried out the build in cyro it was during midyear mayhem and got a nice 1v8... smoked em all

ak_pvp

Waffennacht wrote: »

Don't you understand?

Tank Meta over

Time to adjust to a new Meta.

Just because your build is no longer the fotm meta doesn't mean everything needs to be nerfed again

Edit:

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I've given up on balanced in this game.

But i was ticking someone for 2.8ks with a rending bleed in non cp, so yeah balance.

How is this an issue? That's still only 10% of their health in dmg, combined with a 5k hit that's still only 30% of health total.

If your opponent can't deal with 30%-50% burst and can't recover, they need to get out of PvP

They can't burst every second and can counter it my friend. But constant super high pressure with no counters is much harder to deal with.

AlexTheLion

Correct me if I’m wrong, but OP is a magicka DK main which probably has the hardest time against bleeds and defiles due to a lack of healing. I personally run HOT’s on every class I play so I never have too much issues fighting bleeds. Plus correct CP allocation.

Drakkdjinn

If bleeds are this OP for mDK (which is the real issue of this thread - a mDK died to bleeds and made this qq post), why not try fighting fire with bigger fire since you can get more dmg from obliv sets than the bleed set you're pointing the finger at:

Here's some math: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/421134/math-sloads-vs-masters-dual-wield-a-perspective-on-balance/p1

And some of it in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=algldpvypnI

Voila, now you're more OP.

LeifErickson

AlexTheLion wrote: »

Correct me if I’m wrong, but OP is a magicka DK main which probably has the hardest time against bleeds and defiles due to a lack of healing. I personally run HOT’s on every class I play so I never have too much issues fighting bleeds. Plus correct CP allocation.

I am a mdk main but my point is that bleeds are effective against EVERYONE, not just me. Bleeds counter mdk, fair enough. Wanna know who else they counter? Everyone else.

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

If bleeds are this OP for mDK (which is the real issue of this thread - a mDK died to bleeds and made this qq post), why not try fighting fire with bigger fire since you can get more dmg from obliv sets than the bleed set you're pointing the finger at:

Here's some math: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/421134/math-sloads-vs-masters-dual-wield-a-perspective-on-balance/p1

And some of it in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=algldpvypnI

Voila, now you're more OP.

Everyone knows Sloads is OP. There are enough threads about that.

AlexTheLion

I mean if a mag sorc goes full turtle shield stack with immov potions good luck killing them without some kind of bleeds on a stam build. All I’m saying is things are in the game for a reason, so if bleeds get over nerfed, which is what ZOS does best, they’ll be so weak there will be no point in running them at all.

Chilly-McFreeze

AlexTheLion wrote: »

I mean if a mag sorc goes full turtle shield stack with immov potions good luck killing them without some kind of bleeds on a stam build. All I’m saying is things are in the game for a reason, so if bleeds get over nerfed, which is what ZOS does best, they’ll be so weak there will be no point in running them at all.

How do bleeds help more against wards than any other dot?

AlexTheLion

Please tell me what class DOT’s stam sorc, nightblade, warden, Templar have?

olsborg

Master Daggers are strongly overperforming atm, fyi.

DarkAedin

olsborg wrote: »

Master Daggers are strongly overperforming atm, fyi.

If by overperforming u really mean underperforming, then ur accurate, if not, i beg u take a look at how they are missing thier old 1 piece and i can still outdmg this vieled heritance improved mdw bleed proc with a simple range double cast of my mag wardens swarm.

ak_pvp

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

If bleeds are this OP for mDK (which is the real issue of this thread - a mDK died to bleeds and made this qq post), why not try fighting fire with bigger fire since you can get more dmg from obliv sets than the bleed set you're pointing the finger at:

Here's some math: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/421134/math-sloads-vs-masters-dual-wield-a-perspective-on-balance/p1

And some of it in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=algldpvypnI

Voila, now you're more OP.

JSYK, that is the comparison of master DWs increase, not bleeds. It also doesn't factor in that master DW buffs an ability, so multiple targets, can be reapplied if purged.

LegendaryMage

Forum PVP has begun!

CyrusArya

People are over exaggerating on both ends here. The truth is somewhere in the middle. All I know is, I don’t struggle vs bleeds in particular on any class I play. I think they are an effective and powerful, but overall not egregious mechanic. I also think they serve a purpose, and have a place in the grand scheme of things. And as always, my bottom line is Stamplar needs bleeds to be competitive with other meta specs. So if they get nerfed (which I still assert they don’t need to be) that patch needs to bring with it some serious buffs to the Stamina Templar.

ak_pvp

CyrusArya wrote: »

People are over exaggerating on both ends here. The truth is somewhere in the middle. All I know is, I don’t struggle vs bleeds in particular on any class I play. I think they are an effective and powerful, but overall not egregious mechanic. I also think they serve a purpose, and have a place in the grand scheme of things. And as always, my bottom line is Stamplar needs bleeds to be competitive with other meta specs. So if they get nerfed (which I still assert they don’t need to be) that patch needs to bring with it some serious buffs to the Stamina Templar.

You know what'd be interesting. Putting a bleed on stamplar only. Each hit of jabs puts a 100 bleed dot (like relequin or smth) So higher offense would be gained for landing jabs. Make dw ones resisted but stronger at base.

Drakkdjinn

ak_pvp wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

If bleeds are this OP for mDK (which is the real issue of this thread - a mDK died to bleeds and made this qq post), why not try fighting fire with bigger fire since you can get more dmg from obliv sets than the bleed set you're pointing the finger at:

Here's some math: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/421134/math-sloads-vs-masters-dual-wield-a-perspective-on-balance/p1

And some of it in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=algldpvypnI

Voila, now you're more OP.

JSYK, that is the comparison of master DWs increase, not bleeds. It also doesn't factor in that master DW buffs an ability, so multiple targets, can be reapplied if purged.

Even if that were true, Master DW increases bleed.

It's pretty clear at this point no amount of hard evidence is going to stop ppl from crying in here.

/thread.

Brutusmax1mus

The topic shouldn't be about masters. It should be about the 2 free bleeds that do nearly as much damage for free over 6 seconds without a gcd applicaton. Masters doesn't do any more for a build than asylum destro, masters bow, or a 5pc set completion. It's just easier for morons to quantify bc it is on first kill screen.

Masters is fine. It's the good free procs that add a mean dot to a burst build ppl are so salty about.

Personally, their fine imo. Everything wrecks scrubs, but a big number( over 10 seconds) screams "nerf this skill rabble rabble"

DarkAedin

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

The topic shouldn't be about masters. It should be about the 2 free bleeds that do nearly as much damage for free over 6 seconds without a gcd applicaton. Masters doesn't do any more for a build than asylum destro, masters bow, or a 5pc set completion. It's just easier for morons to quantify bc it is on first kill screen.

Masters is fine. It's the good free procs that add a mean dot to a burst build ppl are so salty about.

Personally, their fine imo. Everything wrecks scrubs, but a big number( over 10 seconds) screams "nerf this skill rabble rabble"

Just to be clear, ur refering to the twin blade and blunt passive that can potentially negate its own dmg by reapplying itself?

Brutusmax1mus

DarkAedin wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

The topic shouldn't be about masters. It should be about the 2 free bleeds that do nearly as much damage for free over 6 seconds without a gcd applicaton. Masters doesn't do any more for a build than asylum destro, masters bow, or a 5pc set completion. It's just easier for morons to quantify bc it is on first kill screen.

Masters is fine. It's the good free procs that add a mean dot to a burst build ppl are so salty about.

Personally, their fine imo. Everything wrecks scrubs, but a big number( over 10 seconds) screams "nerf this skill rabble rabble"

Just to be clear, ur refering to the twin blade and blunt passive that can potentially negate its own dmg by reapplying itself?

Yes, those are the only bleeds even with considering op bc of how they operate, and they're not.

Jjitsuboy98

bleed build with sloads on my solo Stam dk with skoria is probably my favorite Stam dk build. Sustain still sucks with Stam dk though. Incredible pressure though. I may try a healing set now that defile is weaker to replace sloads.

Arthg

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

bleed build with sloads on my solo Stam dk with skoria is probably my favorite Stam dk build. Sustain still sucks with Stam dk though. Incredible pressure though. I may try a healing set now that defile is weaker to replace sloads.

That's not a bleed build.
Seeing as it works on any class, it's not even a "build".
It's a proctard dot set combo.
Slap on Viper and you've got yourself the full-on meta dottard StamDK cancerous cheese for pseudo-l33t scrubs.

How can people like their free RNG-based damage so much - wouldn't they be better off playing Snakes and Ladders?
I just so wish the devs would cater more to chess players.

Nothing personal about the rant by the way.
Just opposing visions of the game.

Cheese on.

Aedaryl

People defending bleeds here are either :

• Bad player that rely 100% on it to make kill
  
• People that lack of knowledge and hwo never met a comeptitive bleed build
  
  
  When a light armor shield user is destroyed by bleed, you can claim it's OP.
  
  Bleed destroy everyone, not only the tank they are supposed to counter.
  
  Bleed damage is so high that it heavely hurt shields and light armor.
  
  Nerf bleed damage by 33% minimum.

Xsorus

You all realize that Master's DW is powerful because every single weapon out of VDSA is powerful as *** right?

Hell, i'd say Master's DW isn't even the most powerful weapon out of there....the 2 hander is extremely powerful in the hands of a Warden and Masters staff..also insane..

Bow...also super great...

I mean.....Yea its going to make Rend more powerful...but guess what..every weapon there does that with its respective ability.

Chilly-McFreeze

Aedaryl wrote: »

People defending bleeds here are either :

• Bad player that rely 100% on it to make kill
  
• People that lack of knowledge and hwo never met a comeptitive bleed build
  
  
  When a light armor shield user is destroyed by bleed, you can claim it's OP.
  
  Bleed destroy everyone, not only the tank they are supposed to counter.
  
  Bleed damage is so high that it heavely hurt shields and light armor.
  
  Nerf bleed damage by 33% minimum.

Just gonna ask this here a second time: what makes bleed so OP against wards?