Single Skill Respec Costs The Same As A Full Respec

jcm2606

starkerealm wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Anybody defending this because it'll help Crown Store sales: set it to a flat gold cost like CP. Make it cost 3000 or even 5000 gold every time. Boom, problem solved.

The problem I have is the cost in no way reflects what you're actually doing to your skills. It should not cost 15k gold to remove a single skill point if you have 300 skills points spent. Prior to this change it made sense, because there was no way to respec on a skill-by-skill basis, but now that Zenimax has added respec on a skill-by-skill basis, it makes zero sense to continue scaling gold cost with total skills/morphs.

A flat fee isn't what I'd like, and still doesn't reflect what you're actually doing to your skills, but it is a good middle-of-the-road solution that still incentivises Crown Store sales.

If you have 300CP, there's no way all of those are someplace useful. Maybe you should have saved a few?

It isn't entirely impossible for a main to use 300 skill points, when they have a full build going, plus a few optional skills when needed, plus flavour skill lines like Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood, plus crafting.

In the UESP build editor, my Stamina Sorc sits at 138 skills without crafting: that'd cost me 6900 gold to respec a single skill. Add all crafting lines, that's 294 skills: that'd cost me 14700 gold to respec a single skill. That's also with Psijic Order passives bought, plus Crushing Weapon, plus all the necessary skills for my build. Throw in optional skills, that'll give you a few extra skill points, pushing you over 300. Throw in flavour skill lines, that's 10-15 skill points right there.

NickStern

Tonturri wrote: »

ZOS, stop punishing your players for playing different parts of your game.

If they did that then the FUN would come back to the game....



And Zo$ knows we can't have that.

SenorCrouch

RIP me, if I just wanted to respec just one skill it is going to cost me 18.2k in gold. Why can't it just be a simple, flat 3k like it is with Champion Points?

It sure feels like I am being punished for going through, playing your game, and collecting skill points. Which is more important ZoS: a happy ESO Plus Member or a Crown Respec Scroll? Cause right now I don't feel on the winning side.

ChuckyPayne

I do not feel like worry, I do not use the feature daily.

Yes maybe it seems a little bit expensive, but I can accept is, more important we can respec safely, now it is a very good, user friendly sub-system.

Retro68

Honestly, I think paying full price to respec a few things is total BS. If I'd wanted to pay full price for a respec, I would have just done so before this patch. I get the point of convenience, its why you pay A LITTLE BIT more at a convenience store than at a market. Full price is a crock of crap though. It should be a flat rate just like respeccing champion points. As someone said in an earlier post, 3k is much more reasonable than 19k (10.5k in my case) for just a few bloody points. Hell, even 5k is reasonable. WTH are you thinking ZOS or whoever....

Aliyavana

Retro68 wrote: »

Honestly, I think paying full price to respec a few things is total BS. If I'd wanted to pay full price for a respec, I would have just done so before this patch. I get the point of convenience, its why you pay A LITTLE BIT more at a convenience store than at a market. Full price is a crock of crap though. It should be a flat rate just like respeccing champion points. As someone said in an earlier post, 3k is much more reasonable than 19k (10.5k in my case) for just a few bloody points. Hell, even 5k is reasonable. WTH are you thinking ZOS or whoever....

3k flat fee is a entirely reasonable fee imo and I wouldn't mind

starkerealm

DanteYoda wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Srsly, let the gold scale, that's just painfull.

2000 gold is too painful?

Depends on how much you have 1900 then yes 2000 is painful.

Then you should sell a couple or three vendor trash items to get to 2k. Even for a poor player, that should be pocket change.

MaleAmazon

TLDR thread. However;

There are so many skillpoints in the game. And once you´ve researched a whole crafting skilline you can remove those. Really you shouldn´t even need to respec skills. And think ahead SOME; it´s not like those skills were auto-assigned in 2 minutes. And even then you might get enough skillpoints by resetting morphs.

If you DO need to respec, even that wad of cash shouldn´t be that much. I spend twice as much on buying research scrolls daily.

It´s a QoL thing. You don´t have to spend time reassigning all your skills which was a bit of a pain.

werzui

Wow ZoS #slowclap#

i thougth its a no brainer to adjust the cost, depending on how much skills are respeced;
i really wanna know who is in charge of such changes and why this person is so stupid, that is beyond my grasp

and if its because they wanting to sale thoose crown scrolls for respecing skills then gg ZoS, thats just gross right there

Sylosi

Guild wars 2, a game that actually lets you exchange in game gold for gems (cash shop currency) removed the charge they once had for changing traits because it was bad for the players (especially the more casual players who lacked funds and those who liked to experiment with builds).

So even a game with gold to cash shop currency (hence a much bigger incentive to remove gold from the game), dropped this nonsense for the sake of their players having a better time playing, puts Zenimax into perspective...

Numerikuu

MaxwellC wrote: »

Only ZOS could take something players overwhelmingly wanted, then proceed to warp it into something players do not want.

And that's why I unsubbed. Spending my money elsewhere on devs that give a damn [looks in Digital Extremes direction ]

Even though I have the gold to use this 'QoL' respec system, I'm still going to end up using the old one. Over 20k...for one...skill....?.......lolno

Hurbster

I don't see the problem with this, not as if I respec every week anyway.

Svenja

Aliyavana, I don't understand you. Really.
You are saying it's too expensive to pay 20k gold only to change a few morphs.
Then people point out that you only need to pay like 1650 gold to change morphs.
You then ignore that fact and state it would be okay for you if you needed to pay a flat amount of 2-3k gold.
Whut? What am I missing here?

Who is changing more than a few morphs anyways? A full skillpoint reset needs to be done when? If you have enough points, all you need to do is change morphs anyways and that costs less than 3k gold even on chars with maximum skillpoints.

Sevalaricgirl

I was wondering why it cost so much to change just my morphs. It was ridiculous.

MaleAmazon

I was wondering why it cost so much to change just my morphs. It was ridiculous.

No offense, but maybe next time if you just want to change morphs, click the "change morphs" option?

AlnilamE

Aliyavana wrote: »

Retro68 wrote: »

Honestly, I think paying full price to respec a few things is total BS. If I'd wanted to pay full price for a respec, I would have just done so before this patch. I get the point of convenience, its why you pay A LITTLE BIT more at a convenience store than at a market. Full price is a crock of crap though. It should be a flat rate just like respeccing champion points. As someone said in an earlier post, 3k is much more reasonable than 19k (10.5k in my case) for just a few bloody points. Hell, even 5k is reasonable. WTH are you thinking ZOS or whoever....

3k flat fee is a entirely reasonable fee imo and I wouldn't mind

But right now, most respecs people do, which are Morphs only, cost under 2000g even on my most decced out character. Why do you want to make it more expensive?

Maryal

I suppose they didn't provide a 'low cost' to respec 1 skill because they didn't want people exploiting it (i.e., instead of paying the high cost of a full respec just to respec 20 or so skills, if they had put in a reasonable price to respec 1 skill (say 200 gold), there would be a lot of people doing a major respecs and paying for it 1-skill-at-a-time) ... LOL!

I hope they come up with some sort of compromise. Maybe they could make the cost for a 1 skill respec be the same price as the respec'ing morphs option.

MerlinPendragon

This is better than paying for respec scroll in Crown store.

This is still a good change. We need gold sinks in this game. There isn't any need to make this a freebie. Be wise with your skill choices.

DanteYoda

starkerealm wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Srsly, let the gold scale, that's just painfull.

2000 gold is too painful?

Depends on how much you have 1900 then yes 2000 is painful.

Then you should sell a couple or three vendor trash items to get to 2k. Even for a poor player, that should be pocket change.

Depends on the level of a character, not everyone is cp 750.. Also what about new customers that make multiple mistakes, even at 64 skills its expensive for them..

Why do you enjoy everything tedious..

Hurbster wrote: »

I don't see the problem with this, not as if I respec every week anyway.

Just because you do not does not mean everyone does not..

Sogreth

idk wrote: »

It’s geeat if someone wants to respec one morph or even a couple skills but does nothing want to put points into every morph or every single thing including crafting.

"Couple"? Yeah sure. Let's respec 3 skills. That's 60k gold.

Runefang wrote: »

Give somebody something for free and next thing they complain it's too heavy to carry....

Think before you post, yeah?

No one is getting anything for free. In fact, they are getting kicked in the face.

Maryal

Svenja wrote: »

Aliyavana, I don't understand you. Really.
You are saying it's too expensive to pay 20k gold only to change a few morphs.
Then people point out that you only need to pay like 1650 gold to change morphs.
You then ignore that fact and state it would be okay for you if you needed to pay a flat amount of 2-3k gold.
Whut? What am I missing here?

Who is changing more than a few morphs anyways? A full skillpoint reset needs to be done when? If you have enough points, all you need to do is change morphs anyways and that costs less than 3k gold even on chars with maximum skillpoints.

Sometimes people want to try the stamina/magica (<--- whichever they aren't) version of their class, or they want to try their class as a hybrid ... either way, a respec would be in order since you would need to switch out a fair number of skills.

MaleAmazon

Depends on the level of a character, not everyone is cp 750.. Also what about new customers that make multiple mistakes, even at 64 skills its expensive for them..

Err... really how serious can a ´mistake´ be? If you picked a skill you didnt want, picking the skill you want and morphing it is 2 skillpoints. That´s 6 skyshards. At least on PC (and I guess print out a map if you´re on console), get addon and pick them up on newbie islands or something. 15 minutes tops.

Also.. you should sometimes have some type of consequence for making a choice you regret... at least you CAN respec.


You can reason like this: if respecing skills was super cheap and you could do it anywhere, then 1) there wouldn´t be a big need to actually get the skillpoints in the first place, and 2) they would never sell skill respec

Personally I think the fact that you cannot change your character´s name without crown coins is a bigger affront.

Sogreth

Maryal wrote: »

I suppose they didn't provide a 'low cost' to respec 1 skill because they didn't want people exploiting it (i.e., instead of paying the high cost of a full respec just to respec 20 or so skills, if they had put in a reasonable price to respec 1 skill (say 200 gold), there would be a lot of people doing a major respecs and paying for it 1-skill-at-a-time) ... LOL!

And to counter that, just make a minimum of 2-3k. And that would stop any "exploiting"

MaleAmazon wrote: »

2) they would never sell skill respec

And that's the reason they did this. They don't care about us, they care about their money.

As long as their can line their pockets, they are happy. Regardless of the players.

MaleAmazon

And that's the reason they did this. They don't care about us, they care about their money.

While I resent some of the ZOS business model as I think it devalues RPGs (limited-time pets etc), it´s not free to run those servers, create new content, and so on. I also create creative content on occasion, and let me tell you, there is no dichotomy between wanting to create something good and making money. ESO+ costs less per month than it costs me to eat *once* at my fav. restaurant on a weekend.

Some people have to pay rent.

jcm2606

MaleAmazon wrote: »

And that's the reason they did this. They don't care about us, they care about their money.

While I resent some of the ZOS business model as I think it devalues RPGs (limited-time pets etc), it´s not free to run those servers, create new content, and so on. I also create creative content on occasion, and let me tell you, there is no dichotomy between wanting to create something good and making money. ESO+ costs less per month than it costs me to eat *once* at my fav. restaurant on a weekend.

Some people have to pay rent.

While I get that ESO is an MMO and so has ongoing expenses that the vast majority of games generally don't have -- which is why I'm fine with the Crown Store being in the game -- you're lying to yourself if you don't think Zenimax is pushing monetisation hard for pure profits, instead of keeping the game afloat.

To put it into perspective, some of the time-exclusive houses cost as much as a triple-A console game ($50+ USD). A single practically vanity item costs as much as a full game. With the usual whales, that alone should keep the game afloat, on top of the upfront purchase of ESO. Then you factor in the upfront purchase of the game, then you add in the sub, then you add the rest of the Crown Store in, and Zenimax right there is making a killing in terms of profit. And that's not even touching Crown Crates, which potentially doubled Zenimax's revenue if you assume Crown Crates perform as well as other lootbox implementations.

Zenimax isn't struggling to keep the game afloat, they're just lining their pockets. Lootboxes alone could keep ESO going, if we're being honest. Just look at how well lootboxes with simple cosmetics do.

VaranisArano

Sogreth wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It’s geeat if someone wants to respec one morph or even a couple skills but does nothing want to put points into every morph or every single thing including crafting.

"Couple"? Yeah sure. Let's respec 3 skills. That's 60k gold.

Runefang wrote: »

Give somebody something for free and next thing they complain it's too heavy to carry....

Think before you post, yeah?

No one is getting anything for free. In fact, they are getting kicked in the face.

Its only 60k if you respec those skills 3 times. Lets not be silly - at the point where you need to respect full skills, not morphs, but skills 3 times, you probably ought to look at farming skill points period.

As for a more realistic situation...

Before Wolfhunter, you want to respec 3 skill point. You pay 20k, all your skill points are refunded, you laboriously reset your build and change those 3 skill points.

After Wolfhunter, you want to respect those 3 skill points. You pay 20k, you reset those 3 skill points. Done, no fuss.

Same cost. Same number of skills changed. More convenience.

Now, lets pretend that you want to swap from PVP to PVE and you need to morph 5 skills. Hey, the Morph cost is much lower. Mine was only 2k.

Before Wolfhunter, I want to morph 5 skills so I can PVE. I pay 2k gold, reset ALL my morphs including stuff I didn't want to change, and change my 5 morphs.

After Wolfhunter, i want to morph 5 skills so I can PVE. I pay 2k gold, change my 5 morphs, good to go. No fuss, Done.

Same cost. Same amount of skills changed. More convenient.


No one is getting kicked in the face, unless you consider the entire respec system prior to Wolfhunter a kick in the face. This new system works so that every time you use it its the same costs and the same skills/morphs changed as the old systems, it just doesn't force you to rebuild your character each time you use it.

Now, some people seem to have expected an entirely system where gold cost scaled with the amount of changes. Frankly, they should have paid better attention on the PTS. Also, I think that's unlikely to happen as long as ZOS sells Crown Respec Scrolls.

Zardayne

Sylosi wrote: »

Guild wars 2, a game that actually lets you exchange in game gold for gems (cash shop currency) removed the charge they once had for changing traits because it was bad for the players (especially the more casual players who lacked funds and those who liked to experiment with builds).

So even a game with gold to cash shop currency (hence a much bigger incentive to remove gold from the game), dropped this nonsense for the sake of their players having a better time playing, puts Zenimax into perspective...

Exactly.

dtsharples

Definitely worth every penny.
You are Paying the 'shrine' for the ability to adjust your previous choices - be it all, or just part of them.
I mean it's a little steep for those of us with 1000cp+, but I don't respec often enough for it to become an issue tbh.
This just saves me the hour off messing around that I would have to do previously.

Hurbster

DanteYoda wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Srsly, let the gold scale, that's just painfull.

2000 gold is too painful?

Depends on how much you have 1900 then yes 2000 is painful.

Then you should sell a couple or three vendor trash items to get to 2k. Even for a poor player, that should be pocket change.

Depends on the level of a character, not everyone is cp 750.. Also what about new customers that make multiple mistakes, even at 64 skills its expensive for them..

Why do you enjoy everything tedious..

Hurbster wrote: »

I don't see the problem with this, not as if I respec every week anyway.

Just because you do not does not mean everyone does not..

New characters get skill points by the bucketload, you won't need to change ANY skillpoints until you reach at least 50, it's not as if we can't just choose to change morphs you know.

MaleAmazon

While I get that ESO is an MMO and so has ongoing expenses that the vast majority of games generally don't have -- which is why I'm fine with the Crown Store being in the game -- you're lying to yourself if you don't think Zenimax is pushing monetisation hard for pure profits, instead of keeping the game afloat.

Sure. I am just saying I don´t think they do it 'only for the money'.

And about houses etc... yeah ok. Still, you don´t have to buy them. I mean, TECHNICALLY I actually get more free crowns per month with ESO+ for what I pay for ESO+, than I would get if I bought 1500 crowns per month This doesn´t exactly mean I make a profit from subbing though

I have to say, objectively, given how much I´ve spent playing it, that ESO is a very cheap source of pleasure at the moment. I bought thieves guild, DB and Orsinium for crowns I got from having subbed when ESO cost money, ofc I now get all DLC from ESO+, which also makes the game a lot smoother (autoloot everything np). And yeah I do think you should get like 1-2 name changes for free, charging for that is kind of stupid, but I don´t think ZOS steps over the line when it comes to their business model, especially if you compare to EA and Creative Assembly.

Crown crates do come close though.