NB Cloak: 4 Second Cooldown

Skoomah

I think this is a fair middle ground. Nightblades can still cloak but they can no longer spam cloak. Add a 4 second cooldown.

Marabornwingrion

No

No. That's our main defense, which can be already broken in many different ways.

ak_pvp

No

Nah it stops the ability for get aways even when not countered and makes the ability that much worse to use in combat. That'd mean 1s downtime in which you would be caught out and could get bursted or prevented from cloaking further

If there was some shorter cooldown on restealth or something it'd be more fair, but directly worsening its use is a no. Take streak for example, that was a bad idea and this is a more extreme version since it halts it completely. Cloak is relied on more as a main defense too, so Its like a 1s cooldown on shields.

huschdeguddzje

No

Only if you increase the duration by a considerable amount

AllPlayAndNoWork

No

Just no.

Dracan_Fontom

No

Make one 1 skill have a cooldown. Make all skills have cooldowns.

RedRook

No

ak_pvp wrote: »

Nah it stops the ability for get aways even when not countered and makes the ability that much worse to use in combat. That'd mean 1s downtime in which you would be caught out and could get bursted or prevented from cloaking further

If there was some shorter cooldown on restealth or something it'd be more fair, but directly worsening its use is a no. Take streak for example, that was a bad idea and this is a more extreme version since it halts it completely. Cloak is relied on more as a main defense too, so Its like a 1s cooldown on shields.

I've actually seen THAT suggested on this forum too, that you not be able to recast your shield until it expires.

I guess what people want is for everybody else to run up to them and then stand still so they can kill them. Or everybody just play one class? :eyeroll:

AEAltadoonPadhome

No

No cooldown. But maybe a cost increase if you spam it, just like bolt escape and dodge roll. Getting out once is fine, but cloaking 5 times in a row is just annoying if you didnt manage to break it immediately.

Galarthor

Yes

It's about time Cloak gets the Streak treatment.

At least streak only serves as a gap opener, not also as a powerful mitigation tool like Cloak does.

Mayrael

No

Galarthor wrote: »

It's about time Cloak gets the Streak treatment.

At least streak only serves as a gap opener, not also as a powerful mitigation tool like Cloak does.

Yes but streak is 100% guaranteed skill, cloak on the other hand can be broken by many things so you can use it 5 times in a row and you still in a bad spot. Make cloak unbreakable, remove all detection methods and then ok cloak can get the treatment of streak.

Ragnaroek93

Yes

It should only get a cooldown if you didn't manage to break it imo.

Mayrael

No

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It should only get a cooldown if you didn't manage to break it imo.

Reasons? If I fail to stun you should you be punished anyway by not letting you roll dodge?

Galarthor

Yes

Mayrael wrote: »

Yes but streak is 100% guaranteed skill, cloak on the other hand can be broken by many things so you can use it 5 times in a row and you still in a bad spot. Make cloak unbreakable, remove all detection methods and then ok cloak can get the treatment of streak.

But streak can be countered by any gap closer in the game. Something that every melee class usually has in their build. So there is no additional cost to countering streak. To counter Cloak on the other hand you need to slot specific abilities or potions, which generates considerable opportunity costs. And Streak does not mitigate damage. Plus you can clearly trace where the streaking sorc is going and follow him. You can't do the same with cloaked NB.

Therefore, I think that it is a fair trade-off. What's not balanced is that it can be spammed non-stop.

If you make cloak 100% guaranteed by removing any counters than this problem or imbalance will just be amplified.

kadar

No

Every damage mitigation mechanic in the game can be spammed, and Cloak is the only one that can get removed by a random AOE that gets sneezed out. It is also the only damage mit. in the game that disallows offense for it's duration. You can do damage (or anything) while you heal, shield, block, ect. It's the only mit. in the game that you can be locked out of using by a simple potion.

Sure let's do the compare thing. Another class defining mitigation mechanic: Hardened Ward. Now, you have a 4 second CD after use. Let's not forget that we can already on live, remove your shield with a specific damage type, use any number of abilities that remove your shield, AND prevent you from casting your shield for 12 seconds by standing near you with a potion.

...oh wait that's cloak on live, nvm end comparison...

#copypaste

TerraDewBerry

No

No.. just no! So many things can break cloak..

Galarthor

Yes

The_Outsider wrote: »

Every damage mitigation mechanic in the game can be spammed, and Cloak is the only one that can get removed by a random AOE that gets sneezed out. It is also the only damage mit. in the game that disallows offense for it's duration. You can do damage (or anything) while you heal, shield, block, ect. It's the only mit. in the game that you can be locked out of using by a simple potion.

Sure let's do the compare thing. Another class defining mitigation mechanic: Hardened Ward. Now, you have a 4 second CD after use. Let's not forget that we can already on live, remove your shield with a specific damage type, use any number of abilities that remove your shield, AND prevent you from casting your shield for 12 seconds by standing near you with a potion.

...oh wait that's cloak on live, nvm end comparison...

#copypaste

But Hardened Ward is a pure damage mitigation tool almost identical to heals and limited in its mitigation capacity by the shieeld strength

Cloak on the other hand is a mitigation tool combined with a gap opener. The mitigation component is fat more powerful since it is relative based on 100%. The downside to it can be broken by AoE attacks. However, these AoE attacks have to find you first. That's a fair trade-off. The fact that you cannot attack is offset by the fact that you also cannot be attacked. Again, a fair trade-off. In addition, this allows you to choose the place and time you attack again. Allowing you to choose the best moment - e.g. stun sorc when shields run out or attack when enemy drops block. You automatically force your opponent on the defensive. And you get a guaranteed crit for your next burst combo.

The mitigation part of cloak isn't the issue. The gap opening part is. Especially when you pair it with the Shade, which pretty much guarantees a successful escape.

As for the detection potion: How would you feel if you could only attack a sorc every 45 sec for 15 sec and only after you drank a certain potion. I don't think you would like that.

Don't get me wrong. I recognize the importance of the mitigation of cloak, and that should remain untouched if possible.
So a solution would be to make cloaking after port to the shade impossible for a short duration and have cost increase if cast again within 4 sec and not attacking the target again. That way the mitigation function remains untouched, but the OP gap opening function is nerfed.

brandonv516

No

Lol...glad you aren't in charge of decision making.

Silver_Strider

No

Galarthor wrote: »

It's about time Cloak gets the Streak treatment.

At least streak only serves as a gap opener, not also as a powerful mitigation tool like Cloak does.

Streak also has a CC component to it unlike cloak.

Galarthor

Yes

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

It's about time Cloak gets the Streak treatment.

At least streak only serves as a gap opener, not also as a powerful mitigation tool like Cloak does.

Streak also has a CC component to it unlike cloak.

True that, which works wonders when the enemy is behind you b/c you are running away from them - i.e. try to open a gap.

Streak and Cloak would be more comparable if streak also negated all single target damage (which includes gap closers).

Again, I don't want to nerf the mitigation part. That would break magblades.

Alternatively, you could remove the cost increase from streak. That would bring the 2 abilities closer together in terms of gap opening performance.

kadar

No

Galarthor wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

It's about time Cloak gets the Streak treatment.

At least streak only serves as a gap opener, not also as a powerful mitigation tool like Cloak does.

Streak also has a CC component to it unlike cloak.

True that, which works wonders when the enemy is behind you b/c you are running away from them - i.e. try to open a gap.

Streak and Cloak would be more comparable if streak also negated all single target damage (which includes gap closers).

Again, I don't want to nerf the mitigation part. That would break magblades.

Alternatively, you could remove the cost increase from streak. That would bring the 2 abilities closer together in terms of gap opening performance.

Streak is not for opening gaps. It's for re-positioning. Hence, the offensive mechanic.

Galarthor

Yes

The same arguement can be made for Cloak. And then 1 or 2 cloaks in a row should suffice. And in such a case the increased cost will be barely felt.

Streak is a very weird repositioning tool though, as it has you face away from your opponent. Thus making you vulnerable.

Mr_Wolfe

No

Cloak doesn't need a nerf. There are plenty of ways to counter it as is. You don't see any abilities that prevent you from healing or using shields for 3+ seconds, but there's half a dozen ways to do that to a cloak user already.

Galarthor wrote: »

It's about time Cloak gets the Streak treatment.

At least streak only serves as a gap opener, not also as a powerful mitigation tool like Cloak does.

Streak deals AOE damage and stuns everyone it hits. Ball Lightning has an AOE stun and absorbs spell projectiles.

If cloak had an area stun and no counters that prevent you from using it, a cooldown might be warranted.

Kikke

Yes

Finaly a thread showing all the NB mains xD

templesus

Yes

Or alternatively: remove the ability altogether

Mayrael

No

Galarthor wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Yes but streak is 100% guaranteed skill, cloak on the other hand can be broken by many things so you can use it 5 times in a row and you still in a bad spot. Make cloak unbreakable, remove all detection methods and then ok cloak can get the treatment of streak.

But streak can be countered by any gap closer in the game. Something that every melee class usually has in their build. So there is no additional cost to countering streak. To counter Cloak on the other hand you need to slot specific abilities or potions, which generates considerable opportunity costs. And Streak does not mitigate damage. Plus you can clearly trace where the streaking sorc is going and follow him. You can't do the same with cloaked NB.

Therefore, I think that it is a fair trade-off. What's not balanced is that it can be spammed non-stop.

If you make cloak 100% guaranteed by removing any counters than this problem or imbalance will just be amplified.

You would be surprised how many builds don't use gap closers + I play mag sorc simce 2014 and trust me I know power of BoL and streak. TBH I can't decide which is more powerful tool because it's heavily dependent on situation. When any of my enemies has some anti cloak mechanic it makes cloak completely useless, it's a wasted slot while bolt escape and morphs is always useful, especially in places where is many obstacles. When you know how and when to use it bolt escape is far superior to cloak, especially when you have been spotted. I know you are experienced sorc my friend but please, go there and play a NB, especially magblade for some time, you will see how screwed is this class without cloak, you wouldn't opt for this if you would feel it on your own skin.

_Ahala_

No

How about we put a 4s cool down on ruining class defining skills

Galarthor

Yes

Mayrael wrote: »

You would be surprised how many builds don't use gap closers + I play mag sorc simce 2014 and trust me I know power of BoL and streak. TBH I can't decide which is more powerful tool because it's heavily dependent on situation. When any of my enemies has some anti cloak mechanic it makes cloak completely useless, it's a wasted slot while bolt escape and morphs is always useful, especially in places where is many obstacles. When you know how and when to use it bolt escape is far superior to cloak, especially when you have been spotted. I know you are experienced sorc my friend but please, go there and play a NB, especially magblade for some time, you will see how screwed is this class without cloak, you wouldn't opt for this if you would feel it on your own skin.

So Streak/BoL is very situational and you have to know when and how to use it. Fair enough!

But why shouldn't Cloak require situational awareness too? Like knowing when to use it to mitigate damage - i.e. there is a Lethal Arrow flying my way ... time to disappear. And why shouldnt it be punished for consecutive use like streak is?

My suggested change would fit perfectly into that picture.

As a reminder:
"I recognize the importance of the mitigation of cloak, and that should remain untouched if possible.
So a solution would be to make cloaking after port to the shade impossible for a short duration and have cost increase if cast again within 4 sec and not attacking the target again. That way the mitigation function remains untouched, but the OP gap opening function is nerfed."

Port to shade is far more powerful that streak is. Even far more powerful than a unrestrained streak would be. It is faster and ignores line-of-sight.

NyassaV

No

yeah lets make magblade even more *** in PvP while not touching it in PvE still

Tyrobag

No

You really have no idea how cloak is intended to work do you?

technohic

No

No. But there should be something for the alternating it between attack weaves. Maybe make a choice. If it’s a defensive ability, maybe for 4 seconds after use, damage done is halved. Opposite of its crit buff now.

DDuke

No

No. But a 3 second cooldown if your cloak gets prematurely broken by damage would be welcome - similar to what happens when you interrupt a channel/cast time ability.