Defensive rune change wasn't neccesary (our defence against nbs)

Feanor

SilverWF wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

This is your punishment for Rune Cage mess.
Deal with it.

Except the vast majority of Sorcs never wanted that skill in that version and said so before Summerset.

That vast majority, that didn't provides any problems?
Because, when you met with Rune Cage Sorc it always ends with Death Recap screen, if your spec has no shields.
At mag NB my only save is Cloak and even it doesn't always helps
And mag NB has no possibilities to deal huge ton of damage in one timestamp, that Sorcs easily can do with Rune Cage, Haunting Curse and mage Wrath

No, your „only save“ isn’t cloak alone. You have a plethora of class hots, and more importantly, the best kiting tool with Shadow Image. You have major armor buffs just by slotting a skill. You get minor vitality just by having a skill on the bar. You can use Healing Ward and Harness Magicka. And if all of that doesn’t help ... then you still have cloak.

SilverWF

Feanor wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

This is your punishment for Rune Cage mess.
Deal with it.

Except the vast majority of Sorcs never wanted that skill in that version and said so before Summerset.

That vast majority, that didn't provides any problems?
Because, when you met with Rune Cage Sorc it always ends with Death Recap screen, if your spec has no shields.
At mag NB my only save is Cloak and even it doesn't always helps
And mag NB has no possibilities to deal huge ton of damage in one timestamp, that Sorcs easily can do with Rune Cage, Haunting Curse and mage Wrath

No, your „only save“ isn’t cloak alone. You have a plethora of class hots, and more importantly, the best kiting tool with Shadow Image. You have major armor buffs just by slotting a skill. You get minor vitality just by having a skill on the bar. You can use Healing Ward and Harness Magicka. And if all of that doesn’t help ... then you still have cloak.

Not, we didn't have "major armor buffs just by slotting a skill", if you are talking about Shadow Barrier passive - it fires only affter shadow skill usage (mag NB has only 1 that skill - Cloak) and only for 6 seconds (7,5 for me, coz I have 1 heavy piece). While sorc has same buff for 20 seconds that also granting them 10sec speed buff, deals AOE damage and putting NB out of stealth.
Minor healing is minor healing. How many healing tools you have? Regen from resto and... that's it. Swallow soul heals you in percentage of damage dealt. Good luck with it against overbuffed Sorc that constantly spamming shields = no crits = lol HOT. Even Piercing Mark wouldn't help you against shields.
Good luck to use Healing Ward at low HP where Mage's Wrath would just finish you up while you would decide to weapon swap. Why not earlier? Because you were runecaged and (I see that too, pretty often) your stam pool was just drained by poisons. And while Rune Cage you can't do anything, completely, unlike our Crippling Grasp, that also can be defended in any ways.
Shards hitting for 8k+, curse hitting for 6k+ even while in Cloak (with all that major buffs up!)
20k spell resist (31%) and vampirism barely save me against that kind of Sorcs. Harness Magica? Lol, 2 hits with crushing shock or even 1 if enchant procs. I even decided to wear Combat Physician, it's becomes better sometimes, but not really much

TheValar85

I dont wanna give ideas but if Nb's are so papers why not using defensive hybrid builds instead of comming to teh forum and qq about nerfing sorcerers? or thats just a luxury thing to use your creativity or your brain? you think we sorcerers not testing constantly our builds? you think we just pick our gears and sloting our skills and rulling Cyrodiil over? no. So stop beeing childish and Cry for @ZOS Nerfing Coops to nerf Sorcerers. Get Good or get off.

Chilly-McFreeze

SilverWF wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

This is your punishment for Rune Cage mess.
Deal with it.

Except the vast majority of Sorcs never wanted that skill in that version and said so before Summerset.

That vast majority, that didn't provides any problems?
Because, when you met with Rune Cage Sorc it always ends with Death Recap screen, if your spec has no shields.
At mag NB my only save is Cloak and even it doesn't always helps
And mag NB has no possibilities to deal huge ton of damage in one timestamp, that Sorcs easily can do with Rune Cage, Haunting Curse and mage Wrath

No, your „only save“ isn’t cloak alone. You have a plethora of class hots, and more importantly, the best kiting tool with Shadow Image. You have major armor buffs just by slotting a skill. You get minor vitality just by having a skill on the bar. You can use Healing Ward and Harness Magicka. And if all of that doesn’t help ... then you still have cloak.

Not, we didn't have "major armor buffs just by slotting a skill", if you are talking about Shadow Barrier passive - it fires only affter shadow skill usage (mag NB has only 1 that skill - Cloak) and only for 6 seconds (7,5 for me, coz I have 1 heavy piece). While sorc has same buff for 20 seconds that also granting them 10sec speed buff, deals AOE damage and putting NB out of stealth.

So Fear, Concealed Weapon and Shades don't count?
I've even seen MagBlades use Path of Darkness. But hey, just because you decide to don't use any of that doesn't mean that MagBlades are limited to that one skill alone. Don't want to start comparisons but if you want to see too few class skills and useless passives take a look at one or two of the stambuilds that don't end with ...blade.

Didaco

Feanor wrote: »

Didaco wrote: »

Guys I don't want so sound like the troll of the situation, but it's not like everyone is going to roll cancel their skills.

A ganker would still have to roll cancel it's opener if they don't want to get caught in the stun, effectively delaying the gank time and giving you the necessary time to recover.
The change will skew good players from bad ones, imo.

It just doesn’t make any sense. The Sorc is sacrificing a bar slot for a defensive option that has its only purpose to avoid getting ganged up. And now that only purpose is made conditional?

The skill is meant to interrupt the enemy offense, it's not stated anywhere it should make you unvulnerable to ganks.
I guess Zos has finally realized that uncounterable mechanics are not healthy for the game.

BalticBlues

Didaco wrote: »

I guess Zos has finally realized that uncounterable mechanics are not healthy for the game.

So where is the counter against Fear or Concealed Weapon?
Why do only other classes get shafted again and again?

NBs cried, so ZOS took the stun from Templar shards.
NBs cried even more, so ZOS also took the stun from Sorc shards.
NBs cried even more, so ZOS also took the stun from Wardens.
NBs finally weeping, so ZOS made the stun of Rune Cage dodgeable.

There are already about 70% NBs in the game because it is the most powerful class,
and they are weeping and weeping until there probably will be 90% of them,
all other classes will finally only be "support classes":

DKs - tanking support for NBs
Templars - healing support for NBs
Wardends - tanking/healing support for NBs
Sorcs - AP support for NBs who can easily gank Sorcs in light armor now.

Jhalin

It wasn’t “NBs crying over Rune Cage”. It was everyone, especially other mag specs that can’t afford to keep getting grabbed by Cages with no way to avoid them. That skill was broken an unbalanced and needed a nerf.

Dodgeable is a good start, now the duration still needs to be dropped too.

Defensive Rune should be undodgeable, last a shorter amount of time, and proc only on direct damage.

Aliyavana

Jhalin wrote: »

It wasn’t “NBs crying over Rune Cage”. It was everyone, especially other mag specs that can’t afford to keep getting grabbed by Cages with no way to avoid them. That skill was broken an unbalanced and needed a nerf.

Dodgeable is a good start, now the duration still needs to be dropped too.

Defensive Rune should be undodgeable, last a shorter amount of time, and proc only on direct damage.

I can agree with that nerf, a person can be running and have dots on you but can still be ccd. I don't agree with the duration tho unless direct rune cage is even lower than def rune

brandonv516

BalticBlues wrote: »

Didaco wrote: »

I guess Zos has finally realized that uncounterable mechanics are not healthy for the game.

So where is the counter against Fear or Concealed Weapon?
Why do only other classes get shafted again and again?

NBs cried, so ZOS took the stun from Templar shards.
NBs cried even more, so ZOS also took the stun from Sorc shards.
NBs cried even more, so ZOS also took the stun from Wardens.
NBs finally weeping, so ZOS made the stun of Rune Cage dodgeable.

There are already about 70% NBs in the game because it is the most powerful class,
and they are weeping and weeping until there probably will be 90% of them,
all other classes will finally only be "support classes":

DKs - tanking support for NBs
Templars - healing support for NBs
Wardends - tanking/healing support for NBs
Sorcs - AP support for NBs who can easily gank Sorcs in light armor now.

-Dark Cloak purge effect removed
-Dark Cloak morph invisibility removed
-Funnel Health nerfed
-Siphoning Attacks/Strikes nerfed
-Agony (more reasonable version of Rune Cage) removed and replaced with a heal
-Fear nerfed down to fewer targets
-Summon Shade nerfed to require target (then reverted later)
-Soul Harvest nerfed when made dodgeable
-Incap ultimate cost raised (soon conditionally raised again)
-Twisting Path damage nerfed
-Crippling Grasp Major Exp buff soon to be nerfed

We get our share.

SilverWF

TheValar85 wrote: »

I dont wanna give ideas but if Nb's are so papers why not using defensive hybrid builds instead of comming to teh forum and qq about nerfing sorcerers? or thats just a luxury thing to use your creativity or your brain? you think we sorcerers not testing constantly our builds? you think we just pick our gears and sloting our skills and rulling Cyrodiil over? no. So stop beeing childish and Cry for @ZOS Nerfing Coops to nerf Sorcerers. Get Good or get off.

You can don't answer on my posts anymore, rude ignorant GM of many guilds.
I wouldn't cry, I promise

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

So Fear, Concealed Weapon and Shades don't count?

Oh, mate, what skill I need to spam to have manageable protection duration and (at the same time) still be offensive?
Prob go to melee at mag NB and start spamming Conceal, against super sonic Sorc, okay
When I said "one" that meant "one more or less often usable", sadly it wasn't obvious for you

brandonv516 wrote: »

-Incap ultimate cost raised (soon conditionally raised again)
-Crippling Grasp Major Exp buff soon to be nerfed

OMG

Stibbons

Defensive rune needs the balance. Automatic cc waiting for 1 minute.

Bergzorn

Stibbons wrote: »

Defensive rune needs the balance. Automatic cc waiting for 1 minute.

Other cc skills also get utility or damage or both.

Kikke

This thread is so full of NBs its ridiculous.

Aliyavana

Stibbons wrote: »

Defensive rune needs the balance. Automatic cc waiting for 1 minute.

Lol

SilverWF

Bergzorn wrote: »

Stibbons wrote: »

Defensive rune needs the balance. Automatic cc waiting for 1 minute.

Other cc skills also get utility or damage or both.

Other CCs are auto?

Bergzorn

Not to my knowledge. The ability to pre-apply defensiv rune is unique and useful, but also rather weak once combat started, compared to e.g. clench damage+dot or fear snare+maim.

KingJ

Can someone explain how defensive rune was your defense against Nb?

Ps i already mentioned they shouldn't have nerfed defense rune but i finally read the title

Galarthor

brandonv516 wrote: »

-Dark Cloak purge effect removed
-Dark Cloak morph invisibility removed
-Funnel Health nerfed
-Siphoning Attacks/Strikes nerfed
-Agony (more reasonable version of Rune Cage) removed and replaced with a heal
-Fear nerfed down to fewer targets
-Summon Shade nerfed to require target (then reverted later)
-Soul Harvest nerfed when made dodgeable
-Incap ultimate cost raised (soon conditionally raised again)
-Twisting Path damage nerfed
-Crippling Grasp Major Exp buff soon to be nerfed

We get our share.

Your share in response to the nerfs you caused in all the other classes.

And the Purge on Cloak wasn't OP at all. Cloak completely mitigating not only direct damage but also DoT.

NBs complained about not having enough healing class abilities. ZOS, ever obedient to their NB masters, responded and gave you more healing abilities ... and imagine that NBs are still complaining.

Fear still stuns more targets than any of the other classes' stuns. Yet NBs are still complaining. And that's not all. It even applies Minor Maim for which other classes have to wear sets and applies a 50% slow. But that's not enough for NBs.

Summon Shade goes through walls, floors, and any other obstacle. No other class has such a powerful escape tool. So some trade-off was required to prevent abuse. But despite having the most powerful escape tool NBs were still complaining, so obedient ZOS gave them what they wanted.

God forbid NB attacks are dodgeable like they demand the attacks of other classes are.

Incap got nerfed so hard, it's practically has never been used over the entire history of ESO.

...

usmguy1234

DuskMarine wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

magSorcs are still stronger in PvP than any other mag spec except NBs, and even then they have better defensive tools and more group utility.

Stop crying about your “poor useless class” while magDens still exist in their current state.

I wouldn't say cloak + shades + loads of class hots + light armor shield + resto ward is worse than class shield + la shield + resto ward + streak + rng heals. But okay.

And yes, never forget about the group utility of an AoE Root, 5% spell crit and negate. There I have to agree.

the thing is a mag sorcs survivability with burst and tankiness far exceeds a nb whos just a glass cannon with lots of heals. so utility vs one trick pony cause nightblades really arent tanky unless their in heavy armor you can eat them otherwise but their damage is mental.

You forgot cloak, the most overperforming defensive skill in the entire game. Plus the oxymoron that nightblades literally have the best defense against themselves.... mark.

Ankael07

As unnecessary this change was, its not much of a change at all.

Melee characters cant attack and dodge DR at the same time, magicka players can but they dont have the stamina pool to waste and ranged stamina characters also can but its not worth it because they'll still be stunned the second after the dodge.

You can still use the skill to catch someone. They'll just get stunned after the dodge ends (assuming you have their DOT on you and it doesnt consume DR)

Priyasekarssk

DuskMarine wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

It's meant to give breathing room against ganks and bursts and it already has a drawback in that it can be used on a player it wasn't intended to be used on or even a npc. By making it dodgable it wont be effective against the players it is intended for, gankers, who run shuffle. Zos please consider not nerfing defensive rune when rune cage is the in demand version and is more problematic. Defensive rune won't even be worth slotting when rune cage you actually can choose your target.

I already mentioned in forums to abandon magic sorc as early as possible at any cost . You are wasting your time on garbage class. I have also stated clearly reasons for it. If people think still otherway , its their fault.

magicka sorcs arent a garbage class their one of the top 3 being number one in line O.o

Is it so ? I abandoned magic sorc and moved to warden and NB. I know its complete garbage. Thinking of moving to stam sorc. Can you make a magic sorc and stand before me on 1v1 ?

KingJ

Galarthor wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

-Dark Cloak purge effect removed
-Dark Cloak morph invisibility removed
-Funnel Health nerfed
-Siphoning Attacks/Strikes nerfed
-Agony (more reasonable version of Rune Cage) removed and replaced with a heal
-Fear nerfed down to fewer targets
-Summon Shade nerfed to require target (then reverted later)
-Soul Harvest nerfed when made dodgeable
-Incap ultimate cost raised (soon conditionally raised again)
-Twisting Path damage nerfed
-Crippling Grasp Major Exp buff soon to be nerfed

We get our share.

Your share in response to the nerfs you caused in all the other classes.

And the Purge on Cloak wasn't OP at all. Cloak completely mitigating not only direct damage but also DoT.

NBs complained about not having enough healing class abilities. ZOS, ever obedient to their NB masters, responded and gave you more healing abilities ... and imagine that NBs are still complaining.

Fear still stuns more targets than any of the other classes' stuns. Yet NBs are still complaining. And that's not all. It even applies Minor Maim for which other classes have to wear sets and applies a 50% slow. But that's not enough for NBs.

Summon Shade goes through walls, floors, and any other obstacle. No other class has such a powerful escape tool. So some trade-off was required to prevent abuse. But despite having the most powerful escape tool NBs were still complaining, so obedient ZOS gave them what they wanted.

God forbid NB attacks are dodgeable like they demand the attacks of other classes are.

Incap got nerfed so hard, it's practically has never been used over the entire history of ESO.

...

Every attack NB have are dodgeable and blockable expect for soul tether a ultimate. Magblades main dps abilities are reflectable and dodgeable when it comes to strife and cripple and just dodgeable when it comes to conceal weapons.Yet you claim magsorc have it hard against dodge rollers lmao.Again you complain about NB while knowing nothing about NB or the game in general.Your narrative of anti NB is NB this NB that you don't even know what they have.

Every class complains about not having enough healing abilities so they can become pve healers.Only healers that are wanted are templars.You see DK and Sorc healers ask for the same thing but you don't care because that goes against your narrative. Only Heal Nb have received is dark cloak change that only tanks can used which NB tanks need since they can no longer sustain using funnel and sap essence to heal since morrowwind gutted them.Or you talking about offering which deal oblivion damage to the user great heal and only heals other.

Umm no NB have never asked for another stun or say fear is trash.When every class complain about something in this case Rune Cage being broken that multiple sorcs ask for it not to be change during the PTS before summerset was released but its NB fault.Again that's against your narrative so letd ignore that fact and just say its the big bad NB controlling Zos.

Shade thing I will agree they made it incredibly strong.For 2 patches it was just straight up broken where you couldn't even teleport to the shade.Just fixing it would have been good enough.Making it so it didn't need a LOS check to be placed was a buff it didn't need.

The incap change is huge but no one cares about that.Incap is great for killing PUGs but you will never kill a good player with just incap.You will still kill pugs with this nerf.The change they made to incap makes it harder to kill good players.Now you have to fear-incap and hope they are out of stam so you can land will to kill them.The incap change also hurt magblades more the main reason people used incap over other ultimates were because of the stun.

rfennell_ESO

A whole thread about defensive rune and no one mentions that people that abuse it will constantly stun you every new cast if a dot is on them. Sometimes, it seems, you will have to deal with them stunning you from a million meters away when you don't even have a dot on them.

It's should only proc on direct damage. It should not be allowed to be abused to stun someone over and over and over well after they actually attacked you. It should also have a range.

ZOS knew there was an issue with defensive rune, they were just mislead into thinking it was something else and made a change. Wrong change, and it's all on the deceivers trying to obfuscate things for their benefit.

I've seen swallow soul on one person turn into 3 stuns. It's not even doing damage, it's not actually a dot. But the hot portion allows them to stun you over and over. It's been broken for a long while and here we are with a thread on pts about it and no one saying a thing about how stupid and broken it is... just crying about a little balancing of it.

The only question is are people abusing it or is it just broken. Are they actually reapplying it to stun you over and over or is it not dropping after damage?

Bergzorn

When in combat, I'm usually casting it whenever there is an open global cooldown. If your DOT is the next damage hitting me and you are not CC immune, ofc you will get stunned. I know it's annoying af, but I fail to see how it is broken or abuse.

Changing it to only trigger on direct damage would be a welcome buff in my eyes. I'd rather interrupt someone actively attacking me instead that obligatory PI spamming sneaktard in my back.

TheValar85

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

A whole thread about defensive rune and no one mentions that people that abuse it will constantly stun you every new cast if a dot is on them. Sometimes, it seems, you will have to deal with them stunning you from a million meters away when you don't even have a dot on them.

It's should only proc on direct damage. It should not be allowed to be abused to stun someone over and over and over well after they actually attacked you. It should also have a range.

ZOS knew there was an issue with defensive rune, they were just mislead into thinking it was something else and made a change. Wrong change, and it's all on the deceivers trying to obfuscate things for their benefit.

I've seen swallow soul on one person turn into 3 stuns. It's not even doing damage, it's not actually a dot. But the hot portion allows them to stun you over and over. It's been broken for a long while and here we are with a thread on pts about it and no one saying a thing about how stupid and broken it is... just crying about a little balancing of it.

The only question is are people abusing it or is it just broken. Are they actually reapplying it to stun you over and over or is it not dropping after damage?

So what? Mele can constantly stunns you withouth running out of resource, but the sorcerers cant do that? thats a bit unfair i think. Not to mention mag sorcerers dosent have endless stamina pool to dodge and break out everytime from stunns, like meles does. So the nerf demands on the rune cage is clearly a QQ fest, cos some players are too lazy to break out the cc and using their escape rute skills to avaoid further issues. On Pc eu i have a lot of NB friends and they all laugh at this pitiness of the Cyres for the rune cage nerf bemands. You know what they all said? Those people cant play with their characters and dosent know a damn tahing about them. And i got to thinking after seeing these comments and demands they are 100% right about their statments.

Feanor

4.1.5 followed through with it. As expected.

Bergzorn

They also reduced the stun duration by 1.5 seconds.

Feanor

Bergzorn wrote: »

They also reduced the stun duration by 1.5 seconds.

Yeah I noticed. The "changes from 4.1.4" section erroneously states the fury change instead.

huschdeguddzje

Waffennacht

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

A whole thread about defensive rune and no one mentions that people that abuse it will constantly stun you every new cast if a dot is on them. Sometimes, it seems, you will have to deal with them stunning you from a million meters away when you don't even have a dot on them.

It's should only proc on direct damage. It should not be allowed to be abused to stun someone over and over and over well after they actually attacked you. It should also have a range.

ZOS knew there was an issue with defensive rune, they were just mislead into thinking it was something else and made a change. Wrong change, and it's all on the deceivers trying to obfuscate things for their benefit.

I've seen swallow soul on one person turn into 3 stuns. It's not even doing damage, it's not actually a dot. But the hot portion allows them to stun you over and over. It's been broken for a long while and here we are with a thread on pts about it and no one saying a thing about how stupid and broken it is... just crying about a little balancing of it.

The only question is are people abusing it or is it just broken. Are they actually reapplying it to stun you over and over or is it not dropping after damage?

I didn't know swallow lasted for 16+ seconds...