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rune cage and stuns

Swimguy
Swimguy
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The problem with rune cage isnt because you can use it at 28m away (lol) and it is unblockable/undodgeable (lol) its that CC immunity is 5 seconds long and it is way to hard to reliably hit people that are moving around ( 500x time harder for melee). when you have a CC that is super easy to hit and WILL hit when its on CD is really stupid.

no im not gonna suggest how to fix rune cage because its really not hard to just slap a nerf on that keeps people from spamming it.



  • Swimguy
    Swimguy
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    OGLezard wrote: »
    Love how people complain about a skill a lot of people used before it became popular once they removed frags stun, now suddenly its the most op thing in the game.

    People crack me up.

    No worries op, soon it's going to be dodgeable(lololololooololololololololol dumbest thing ever), have less stun time, and will make a lot of sorcs free ap for everyone (since that's where we are headed).

    I say screw it, let's make it reflectable while we are at it as well, since zoe is just making dumb changes lately.

    lol if you care to read my post youd realize i am not saying its solely runecage.. however undodgeable AND unblockable shouldnt ever be together imo
  • OGLezard
    OGLezard
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    Swimguy wrote: »
    OGLezard wrote: »
    Love how people complain about a skill a lot of people used before it became popular once they removed frags stun, now suddenly its the most op thing in the game.

    People crack me up.

    No worries op, soon it's going to be dodgeable(lololololooololololololololol dumbest thing ever), have less stun time, and will make a lot of sorcs free ap for everyone (since that's where we are headed).

    I say screw it, let's make it reflectable while we are at it as well, since zoe is just making dumb changes lately.

    lol if you care to read my post youd realize i am not saying its solely runecage.. however undodgeable AND unblockable shouldnt ever be together imo

    I did read it and it mentions how it's a long range, unblockable/undodgeable, 5 second stun, and then you end it by saying its not that hard to slap it with a nerf......

    So what am I missing? Nothing else was mentioned other than runecage and slap it with more nerfs.
  • OGLezard
    OGLezard
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    Aside from the title of course..... where you say "and stuns" but never mention anything else other than rune cage....

    Maybe add more substance to your original post so it doesnt sound like only rune cage. Cuz right now that's what it is.
    Swimguy wrote: »
    The problem with rune cage isnt because you can use it at 28m away (lol) and it is unblockable/undodgeable (lol) its that CC immunity is 5 seconds long and it is way to hard to reliably hit people that are moving around ( 500x time harder for melee). when you have a CC that is super easy to hit and WILL hit when its on CD is really stupid.

    no im not gonna suggest how to fix rune cage because its really not hard to just slap a nerf on that keeps people from spamming it



    See..... you dont say anything at the end about how to fix rune cage AND stuns, just rune cage and slap it with a nerf.....

    But yea, I must be reading that wrong apparently....
    Edited by OGLezard on July 31, 2018 8:48PM
  • Apherius
    Apherius
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    If they nerf it more .. nobody will play with that instead clench.
  • OGLezard
    OGLezard
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    Apherius wrote: »
    If they nerf it more .. nobody will play with that instead clench.

    It's becoming dodgeable in a patch coming up. They already announced it. So might as well go with clench as that deals damage, a dot, and knocksback.

    But dont worry. Soon "clench needs nerf, derpaderp op muh feels, derp" will hit the forums until sorcs get zero hard cc except cost increasing, buggy as he11 streak.
  • Lieblingsjunge
    Lieblingsjunge
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    The main issue I have with it, is the range and the fact that it "travels". + the "KABOOM"-hard-to-break-cc(altho, that's server performance related, not skill-related).
    There are times where I'm being chased by a few people. And when I finally think I'm safe behind a wall => A rune cage comes flying from the sorc that threw it just before I got behind the wall. It's like.... Idk. It's like Sload's. Completely ignores terrain once casted.

    Worst thing is still the range though. You have other hard CC's like Fear/Vamp drain/Petrify that has significantly lower range. And those are completely fine. The issue is just the range + it ignoring the terrain once casted.

    Tbf, every class *should* have access to a hard-cc in their kit. But not on a 28m range. (.___. I'm a crying magplar, give me a relevant stun, pls).
    Ignorance is the greatest weapon of tyranny.
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  • OGLezard
    OGLezard
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    The main issue I have with it, is the range and the fact that it "travels". + the "KABOOM"-hard-to-break-cc(altho, that's server performance related, not skill-related).
    There are times where I'm being chased by a few people. And when I finally think I'm safe behind a wall => A rune cage comes flying from the sorc that threw it just before I got behind the wall. It's like.... Idk. It's like Sload's. Completely ignores terrain once casted.

    Worst thing is still the range though. You have other hard CC's like Fear/Vamp drain/Petrify that has significantly lower range. And those are completely fine. The issue is just the range + it ignoring the terrain once casted.

    Tbf, every class *should* have access to a hard-cc in their kit. But not on a 28m range. (.___. I'm a crying magplar, give me a relevant stun, pls).

    Are you serious right now? Sloads is not casted...... someone could have a dot on you and it dont matter if you are on the other side of the keep...... it can proc still as long as the person wearing it has a dot applied to you.

    As for the boom, that's multiple skills hitting at once.

    We can agree that break free needs to be more reliable though! Also that the servers do suck lol
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    I think a counter to your counter should always exist.

    As long as block and Dodge are things, other things need to bypass block and dodge

    You mean Dots, on target burst, ground based and sky based AoEs blockable, all dodgable, oblivion. Bleeds being a double counter for block in that it skips resistances too.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
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  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    I’d appreciate if people who QQ at least tried to get their facts straight.
    Increased the duration of the crowd control immunity buff granted after a crowd control expires on you to 7 seconds from 5 seconds. This will now match the duration of the crowd-control immunity buff granted by Break Free.

    It has been like that since 2.7.0 - Homestead.
    The problem with rune cage isnt because you can use it at 28m away (lol) and it is unblockable/undodgeable (lol) its that CC immunity is 5 seconds long
    Edited by Feanor on August 1, 2018 6:32AM
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  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    Another one talking about spamming runecage..

    It is probably the LEAST spammable skill in the game. In fact, aside from uliti's, I think it may be the only skill in the game that you cannot spam at a single enemy.

    Edited by Biro123 on August 1, 2018 8:08AM
    Minalan owes me a beer.

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  • SunRaider
    SunRaider
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    Magic wardens should have that skill not sorceres, they have enough brust
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    I think a counter to your counter should always exist.

    As long as block and Dodge are things, other things need to bypass block and dodge

    You mean Dots, on target burst, ground based and sky based AoEs blockable, all dodgable, oblivion. Bleeds being a double counter for block in that it skips resistances too.

    The few things listed (Dots, AoEs, and Bleed are all essentially the same, while bleed does not ignore block and the application of which can be dodged) are necessary to be kept.

    Bleeds only ignore armor mitigation btw.

    The premise that you can kill a perma roller or permablocker just with AoE dots and Oblivion damage (lmfao @ sloads vs dodger now) is pretty silly. You absolutely need a hard CC that bypasses Dodge/block
    Edited by Waffennacht on August 1, 2018 12:10PM
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  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    Biro123 wrote: »
    Another one talking about spamming runecage..

    It is probably the LEAST spammable skill in the game. In fact, aside from uliti's, I think it may be the only skill in the game that you cannot spam at a single enemy.

    And when ur immune / immov the skill doesnt even fire. Nothing. Add the general bar swap lag etc we often get on console its a damn clunky experience.

    honnestly tho OP the issue with all Sorc moan threads is they have misinformation in them, ball everything up - and yep some Sorcs will get over defencsive but thats in part correcting incorrect assumptions or statements or secondly that no matter what ZOS do - no matter if sorcs are strong (nowish) or are weak (last 6 months / 2 patches) the same moans come in.
    Xbox One | EU | EP
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  • Swimguy
    Swimguy
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    didnt say fossilize isnt op but magsorcs have twice to 3x as much damage..........
  • Swimguy
    Swimguy
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    raasdal wrote: »
    Rune Cage is a great example of how the majority of players have no clue how to "balance" the game, and yet we all cry about how incompetent the Dev's are. It may be that i am equally clueless, but i honestly do not think so (of course)

    When they changed Rune Cage, along with all the other "Disorients" - i think that was 1 / 2 / 3 patches ago - something like that ? THAT is when it became OP. I know this, because i slotted that on my Stamsorc on day 1 of that patch, and i have been wrecking people with it ever since.

    But i was one of very few doing this - even Magsorcs where still spamming that Clench with Master Destro.

    THEN came the damage boost, and apparently this lured some of the Magsorcs into the "fold", and suddenly things escalated.

    So. What exactly is OP about this skill?`

    The Damage ? - NO
    The Range ? - NO
    Being Unblockable / Unreflectable / Undodgeable ? - NO

    Except for the range, all above applies to Fossilize as well. AND Rune Cage is a PAIN IN THE ASS to cast on immune targets, because there is no indication, and you get 0 reward (unlike ie. Reverb Bash or Clench etc etc., which deal damage and status effects, regardless of CC being applied.

    There is NO WAY, you can claim that Rune Cage is "OH MY GOD SO OP", without ALSO doing the same for ie. Fossilize. Yeah Yeah, they COULD reduce the range, sure. Just like they did with Fossilize. But there is a big big big difference between adjusting a skill to finetune performance, which a range nerf would be, and actually adressing the issue that is causing everyone to QQ.

    So what exactly is so OP about Rune Cage, that everyone is up in arms (including myself, i hate getting hit by that skill).? It is the delay on the Stun. Not the delay from the caster casting it, to the effect. It is the DELAY ON CC BREAK.

    I will repeat;

    Range is fine
    Damage is fine
    Unblockable is fine
    Undodgeable is fine
    Unreflectable is fine

    What KILLS you about this skill, is the fact that you cannot reliably break free.

    Rune Cage is EXTREMELY bugged with the response to CC break. That is why it is a litteral death sentence in any 1vX scenario.

    At least that is my opinion. I might be just at terrible at analyzing context and balances as i claim most everyone else are. But that's a chance im willing to take ;)

    rune cage doesnt belong on magsorc they have enough pressure through pure damage. DKs need it because they have low damage....
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Swimguy wrote: »
    raasdal wrote: »
    Rune Cage is a great example of how the majority of players have no clue how to "balance" the game, and yet we all cry about how incompetent the Dev's are. It may be that i am equally clueless, but i honestly do not think so (of course)

    When they changed Rune Cage, along with all the other "Disorients" - i think that was 1 / 2 / 3 patches ago - something like that ? THAT is when it became OP. I know this, because i slotted that on my Stamsorc on day 1 of that patch, and i have been wrecking people with it ever since.

    But i was one of very few doing this - even Magsorcs where still spamming that Clench with Master Destro.

    THEN came the damage boost, and apparently this lured some of the Magsorcs into the "fold", and suddenly things escalated.

    So. What exactly is OP about this skill?`

    The Damage ? - NO
    The Range ? - NO
    Being Unblockable / Unreflectable / Undodgeable ? - NO

    Except for the range, all above applies to Fossilize as well. AND Rune Cage is a PAIN IN THE ASS to cast on immune targets, because there is no indication, and you get 0 reward (unlike ie. Reverb Bash or Clench etc etc., which deal damage and status effects, regardless of CC being applied.

    There is NO WAY, you can claim that Rune Cage is "OH MY GOD SO OP", without ALSO doing the same for ie. Fossilize. Yeah Yeah, they COULD reduce the range, sure. Just like they did with Fossilize. But there is a big big big difference between adjusting a skill to finetune performance, which a range nerf would be, and actually adressing the issue that is causing everyone to QQ.

    So what exactly is so OP about Rune Cage, that everyone is up in arms (including myself, i hate getting hit by that skill).? It is the delay on the Stun. Not the delay from the caster casting it, to the effect. It is the DELAY ON CC BREAK.

    I will repeat;

    Range is fine
    Damage is fine
    Unblockable is fine
    Undodgeable is fine
    Unreflectable is fine

    What KILLS you about this skill, is the fact that you cannot reliably break free.

    Rune Cage is EXTREMELY bugged with the response to CC break. That is why it is a litteral death sentence in any 1vX scenario.

    At least that is my opinion. I might be just at terrible at analyzing context and balances as i claim most everyone else are. But that's a chance im willing to take ;)

    rune cage doesnt belong on magsorc they have enough pressure through pure damage. DKs need it because they have low damage....

    If your talking about pressure mag dk's have more than mag sorc's.

    Big difference between pressures e.g. roots + dots + skoria + whips e.g. high dps if they catch you.

    And burst which is what mag sorc excels in.
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    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


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  • KingJ
    KingJ
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    I think a counter to your counter should always exist.

    As long as block and Dodge are things, other things need to bypass block and dodge
    While I agree i don't think ability should do everything. Go through block,dodge .One or the other right now we have ability and sets that go through everything.
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    KingJ wrote: »
    I think a counter to your counter should always exist.

    As long as block and Dodge are things, other things need to bypass block and dodge
    While I agree i don't think ability should do everything. Go through block,dodge .One or the other right now we have ability and sets that go through everything.

    Fear and fossilise have always gone through block or dodge though.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    KingJ wrote: »
    I think a counter to your counter should always exist.

    As long as block and Dodge are things, other things need to bypass block and dodge
    While I agree i don't think ability should do everything. Go through block,dodge .One or the other right now we have ability and sets that go through everything.

    Why should Magicka be forced to eat all CC versions while Stam have counters?

    All I see, when people complain about this, is that they run a permablocker or a Dodge spammer and the undodgeable/unblockable aspects are the only thing that's stopping them from being unkillable.

    All Magicka users gotta break free, Stam should have the same consequences. Especially seeing as their mitigation (block and roll) mitigate far better 1vX than Shields.
    Edited by Waffennacht on August 1, 2018 11:59PM
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
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  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    KingJ wrote: »
    I think a counter to your counter should always exist.

    As long as block and Dodge are things, other things need to bypass block and dodge
    While I agree i don't think ability should do everything. Go through block,dodge .One or the other right now we have ability and sets that go through everything.

    Why should Magicka be forced to eat all CC versions while Stam have counters?

    All I see, when people complain about this, is that they run a permablocker or a Dodge spammer and the undodgeable/unblockable aspects are the only thing that's stopping them from being unkillable.

    All Magicka users gotta break free, Stam should have the same consequences. Especially seeing as their mitigation (block and roll) mitigate far better 1vX than Shields.

    If its dodgeable, gonna have a hard time killing those heavy armour nbs again lmao.

    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    KingJ wrote: »
    I think a counter to your counter should always exist.

    As long as block and Dodge are things, other things need to bypass block and dodge
    While I agree i don't think ability should do everything. Go through block,dodge .One or the other right now we have ability and sets that go through everything.

    Why should Magicka be forced to eat all CC versions while Stam have counters?

    All I see, when people complain about this, is that they run a permablocker or a Dodge spammer and the undodgeable/unblockable aspects are the only thing that's stopping them from being unkillable.

    All Magicka users gotta break free, Stam should have the same consequences. Especially seeing as their mitigation (block and roll) mitigate far better 1vX than Shields.

    If its dodgeable, gonna have a hard time killing those heavy armour nbs again lmao.

    Lol.

    The real consequential difference between classes are CCs and undodgeable/unblockable abilities, followed by executes.

    NBs have all of that
    Sorcs had all of that
    DKs have some of that
    Templars have a little bit
    Wardens have a pinch

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  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    KingJ wrote: »
    I think a counter to your counter should always exist.

    As long as block and Dodge are things, other things need to bypass block and dodge
    While I agree i don't think ability should do everything. Go through block,dodge .One or the other right now we have ability and sets that go through everything.

    Why should Magicka be forced to eat all CC versions while Stam have counters?

    All I see, when people complain about this, is that they run a permablocker or a Dodge spammer and the undodgeable/unblockable aspects are the only thing that's stopping them from being unkillable.

    All Magicka users gotta break free, Stam should have the same consequences. Especially seeing as their mitigation (block and roll) mitigate far better 1vX than Shields.

    If its dodgeable, gonna have a hard time killing those heavy armour nbs again lmao.

    Lol.

    The real consequential difference between classes are CCs and undodgeable/unblockable abilities, followed by executes.

    NBs have all of that
    Sorcs had all of that
    DKs have some of that
    Templars have a little bit
    Wardens have a pinch

    Ey wardens still have a skill that goes through block and deals similar dmg to ults, class instant heals, better version of wings etc..

    Magicka wardens aren't that amazing tbh, more support roles but stam warden is still amazing. But templars need shard cc's back atleast.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    KingJ wrote: »
    I think a counter to your counter should always exist.

    As long as block and Dodge are things, other things need to bypass block and dodge
    While I agree i don't think ability should do everything. Go through block,dodge .One or the other right now we have ability and sets that go through everything.

    Why should Magicka be forced to eat all CC versions while Stam have counters?

    All I see, when people complain about this, is that they run a permablocker or a Dodge spammer and the undodgeable/unblockable aspects are the only thing that's stopping them from being unkillable.

    All Magicka users gotta break free, Stam should have the same consequences. Especially seeing as their mitigation (block and roll) mitigate far better 1vX than Shields.

    If its dodgeable, gonna have a hard time killing those heavy armour nbs again lmao.

    Lol.

    The real consequential difference between classes are CCs and undodgeable/unblockable abilities, followed by executes.

    NBs have all of that
    Sorcs had all of that
    DKs have some of that
    Templars have a little bit
    Wardens have a pinch

    Ey wardens still have a skill that goes through block and deals similar dmg to ults, class instant heals, better version of wings etc..

    Magicka wardens aren't that amazing tbh, more support roles but stam warden is still amazing. But templars need shard cc's back atleast.

    I was being biased as didn't even think about Stam versions lmfao.

    Yeah stamden has a lot going on.
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  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    KingJ wrote: »
    I think a counter to your counter should always exist.

    As long as block and Dodge are things, other things need to bypass block and dodge
    While I agree i don't think ability should do everything. Go through block,dodge .One or the other right now we have ability and sets that go through everything.

    Why should Magicka be forced to eat all CC versions while Stam have counters?

    All I see, when people complain about this, is that they run a permablocker or a Dodge spammer and the undodgeable/unblockable aspects are the only thing that's stopping them from being unkillable.

    All Magicka users gotta break free, Stam should have the same consequences. Especially seeing as their mitigation (block and roll) mitigate far better 1vX than Shields.

    If its dodgeable, gonna have a hard time killing those heavy armour nbs again lmao.

    Lol.

    The real consequential difference between classes are CCs and undodgeable/unblockable abilities, followed by executes.

    NBs have all of that
    Sorcs had all of that
    DKs have some of that
    Templars have a little bit
    Wardens have a pinch

    Ey wardens still have a skill that goes through block and deals similar dmg to ults, class instant heals, better version of wings etc..

    Magicka wardens aren't that amazing tbh, more support roles but stam warden is still amazing. But templars need shard cc's back atleast.

    I was being biased as didn't even think about Stam versions lmfao.

    Yeah stamden has a lot going on.

    Stamdens have dawnbreaker for a decent ult and can run cc's like reverb which is so much better than jav. They're not amazing but not completely useless.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Rianai
    Rianai
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    Biro123 wrote: »
    Another one talking about spamming runecage..

    It is probably the LEAST spammable skill in the game. In fact, aside from uliti's, I think it may be the only skill in the game that you cannot spam at a single enemy.

    Which is one reason why it is so braindead easy to use. Many use it whenever they can. Which isn't an issue in 1vs1, but when outnumbered it is stupid. Imo it should be spammable against cc immune targets, so players have to think a little bit when to use it or they'll just waste their magicka. Same applies to Fozzilize ofc. Other skills can be wasted too, so i don't understand why those 2 skills need to be an exception.
    Edited by Rianai on August 2, 2018 3:13AM
  • Biro123
    Biro123
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    ItsNebula wrote: »
    OGLezard wrote: »
    Love how people complain about a skill a lot of people used before it became popular once they removed frags stun, now suddenly its the most op thing in the game.

    People crack me up.

    No worries op, soon it's going to be dodgeable(lololololooololololololololol dumbest thing ever), have less stun time, and will make a lot of sorcs free ap for everyone (since that's where we are headed).

    I say screw it, let's make it reflectable while we are at it as well, since zos is just making dumb changes lately.

    They should also make curse refletcable and endless reflectable and MagSorcs dodgeroll reflectable and there cfrags deal 210% less dmg upon proc and travel 1000x more slower upon proc and cost 5000k more magicka upon proc.. OH also make sure to make boundless storms little tics reflectable

    That's just dumb..

    You forgot to mention shields :lol:
    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
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