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rune cage and stuns

  • Thrusts-His-Spear
    Thrusts-His-Spear
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    KingJ wrote: »
    I think a counter to your counter should always exist.

    As long as block and Dodge are things, other things need to bypass block and dodge
    While I agree i don't think ability should do everything. Go through block,dodge .One or the other right now we have ability and sets that go through everything.

    Fear and fossilise have always gone through block or dodge though.

    They also are both melee range too. Think about that.
    Dude Where's My Guar?
  • Kikke
    Kikke
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    KingJ wrote: »
    I think a counter to your counter should always exist.

    As long as block and Dodge are things, other things need to bypass block and dodge
    While I agree i don't think ability should do everything. Go through block,dodge .One or the other right now we have ability and sets that go through everything.

    Fear and fossilise have always gone through block or dodge though.

    They also are both melee range too. Think about that.

    A DK plays a melee playstyle, a nb can cloak around and got ambush. So your point is?

    Oh if you have not understood yet, Sorc has a ranged playstyle. Perhaps thats why the other morph of cage traps you if you strike him. The choice of a defenesive or a offensive skill. Was kinda perfect, but servers sucks, a cc bug that has been in the game since NBs got their fear and screaming forum warrios broke it.

    Time to reroll NB I guess. . .
    Because they are so balanced xD
    Cleared Trials:
    - vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -

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    -Someone said it, I guess.
  • Lord_Etrigan
    Lord_Etrigan
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    Swimguy wrote: »
    The problem with rune cage isnt because you can use it at 28m away (lol) and it is unblockable/undodgeable (lol) its that CC immunity is 5 seconds long and it is way to hard to reliably hit people that are moving around ( 500x time harder for melee). when you have a CC that is super easy to hit and WILL hit when its on CD is really stupid.

    no im not gonna suggest how to fix rune cage because its really not hard to just slap a nerf on that keeps people from spamming it.



    @Swimguy I’m sorry……….did you say spammable???

    You must have rune cage confused with burning talons.

    You do realise that if the payer you aim your rune cage at already has been cc’d then surprise! surprise!, rune cage will not activate. Why you ask? Because the enemy you targeting has cc immunity.

    The skill will only work if you are the first one to target the enemy and catch him with his pants down and even then with the big stamina pools floating around lately, most players will just shrug it off and spamm dizzy swing at you until the sun comes up….
    PS4 EU
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  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    They took the stun off frags, slapped it on runecage and made it go through block,dodge and become yet another delayed burst on a class with multiple delayed burst attacks.
  • Ranger209
    Ranger209
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    Petrify 8m + zero damage on a class with no escape tool, no execute, no innate class defense (shield, invisibility, teleport, whatever), no burst (Whip is no burst, its only marginally if at all better than Force Pulse or Empowered Weapon and can be dodged even if Power Lash could proc, and every class can use any monster set... and ultimates like leap are not reliable), and all relevant class skills having 6m-8m range...

    Rune Cage 28m (+AvA Range bonus near keeps) plus damage on a class with streak, expedition on demand, strongest shield in the game, a strong burst and execute and max damage from max range...

    yes, it is completely balanced, both on a direct skill comparison and on a class comparison (/sarcasm)

    DK is meant to use chains and other gap closers to make the fight a melee fight, and then talons, petrify, etc. to lock their opponent down. They also get wings to reflect damage back that is projectile based damage. Sorcerers objective is to keep the fight at range, and keep opponents at range by streaking out of melee range, or stunning someone at range to keep them from closing in on them. In the middle of all of that spatial struggle there are windows of opportunity for both sides to inflict damage. What you do in those windows of opportunity and how you set up for them is what makes the classes unique.
    Edited by Ranger209 on August 4, 2018 2:48PM
  • Swimguy
    Swimguy
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    Ranger209 wrote: »
    Petrify 8m + zero damage on a class with no escape tool, no execute, no innate class defense (shield, invisibility, teleport, whatever), no burst (Whip is no burst, its only marginally if at all better than Force Pulse or Empowered Weapon and can be dodged even if Power Lash could proc, and every class can use any monster set... and ultimates like leap are not reliable), and all relevant class skills having 6m-8m range...

    Rune Cage 28m (+AvA Range bonus near keeps) plus damage on a class with streak, expedition on demand, strongest shield in the game, a strong burst and execute and max damage from max range...

    yes, it is completely balanced, both on a direct skill comparison and on a class comparison (/sarcasm)

    DK is meant to use chains and other gap closers to make the fight a melee fight, and then talons, petrify, etc. to lock their opponent down. They also get wings to reflect damage back that is projectile based damage. Sorcerers objective is to keep the fight at range, and keep opponents at range by streaking out of melee range, or stunning someone at range to keep them from closing in on them. In the middle of all of that spatial struggle there are windows of opportunity for both sides to inflict damage. What you do in those windows of opportunity and how you set up for them is what makes the classes unique.

    No there is 0 window for damage when sorcs do so much damage if you stop dodge rolling and weaving heals in between you instantly get ticked for 5+ sources of damage and die.


    Its complete *** and anyone that tries to say magicka DPS isnt OP in PvP just use a infused fire damage flame staff and weave your spammable+ random stun amd add a dot and your hitting almost 15k dps ez.

    On top if that stamina class MUST slot 3-4 defensive skills at a minimum to survice while magicka needs just 1 or 2......


    No there is 0 balance. Mag should l2 kite and get big shield/dps nerf (add real counterplay other than waiting for mag to forget about refreshing shield)

    Give stamina more survivibility... everyone just moves way too fast for real pvp combat (also why can people literally walk/roll dodge through people??)
  • Tesfa
    Tesfa
    OGLezard wrote: »
    Apherius wrote: »
    If they nerf it more .. nobody will play with that instead clench.

    It's becoming dodgeable in a patch coming up. They already announced it. So might as well go with clench as that deals damage, a dot, and knocksback.

    But dont worry. Soon "clench needs nerf, derpaderp op muh feels, derp" will hit the forums until sorcs get zero hard cc except cost increasing, buggy as he11 streak.

    When I get hit by clench I’m always able to cc break mid-air and counter attack the Sorc. When I’m cc by rune cage I either can’t cc break and die from the execute ability you applied to me all from 20+meters away. Or I get lucky cc break and able to fight the Sorc.

    - biggest issue with rune cage is cc break not working properly

  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    Swimguy wrote: »
    Ranger209 wrote: »
    Petrify 8m + zero damage on a class with no escape tool, no execute, no innate class defense (shield, invisibility, teleport, whatever), no burst (Whip is no burst, its only marginally if at all better than Force Pulse or Empowered Weapon and can be dodged even if Power Lash could proc, and every class can use any monster set... and ultimates like leap are not reliable), and all relevant class skills having 6m-8m range...

    Rune Cage 28m (+AvA Range bonus near keeps) plus damage on a class with streak, expedition on demand, strongest shield in the game, a strong burst and execute and max damage from max range...

    yes, it is completely balanced, both on a direct skill comparison and on a class comparison (/sarcasm)

    DK is meant to use chains and other gap closers to make the fight a melee fight, and then talons, petrify, etc. to lock their opponent down. They also get wings to reflect damage back that is projectile based damage. Sorcerers objective is to keep the fight at range, and keep opponents at range by streaking out of melee range, or stunning someone at range to keep them from closing in on them. In the middle of all of that spatial struggle there are windows of opportunity for both sides to inflict damage. What you do in those windows of opportunity and how you set up for them is what makes the classes unique.

    No there is 0 window for damage when sorcs do so much damage if you stop dodge rolling and weaving heals in between you instantly get ticked for 5+ sources of damage and die.


    Its complete *** and anyone that tries to say magicka DPS isnt OP in PvP just use a infused fire damage flame staff and weave your spammable+ random stun amd add a dot and your hitting almost 15k dps ez.

    On top if that stamina class MUST slot 3-4 defensive skills at a minimum to survice while magicka needs just 1 or 2......


    No there is 0 balance. Mag should l2 kite and get big shield/dps nerf (add real counterplay other than waiting for mag to forget about refreshing shield)

    Give stamina more survivibility... everyone just moves way too fast for real pvp combat (also why can people literally walk/roll dodge through people??)

    Lol..
    My magsorc uses, hmm let me see..
    2 shields
    1 Hot
    1 channeled heal
    1 heal ultimate
    1 Escape skill
    1 stat boost skill aimed at boosting defence more than damage..
    And for roll-dodge, specifically builds stats/recovery/traits/cp's for it.

    Wish I could just slot Vigour/rally/cloak or purge like I do on my stamplar/stamblade
    (To be fair, they both normally slot one more defensive skill, but still, nowhere near what I use for mag)

    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
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    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • shinikaze
    shinikaze
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    Another issue is that when a nb or dk cast fear/ fosilize they consume a global cd, nbs has to actually chase the cced target. sorc has they're burst already on delay bursting all at once with a delayed excecute and a pasive execute (just in case you dare to survive).


  • Ranger209
    Ranger209
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    Swimguy wrote: »
    Ranger209 wrote: »
    Petrify 8m + zero damage on a class with no escape tool, no execute, no innate class defense (shield, invisibility, teleport, whatever), no burst (Whip is no burst, its only marginally if at all better than Force Pulse or Empowered Weapon and can be dodged even if Power Lash could proc, and every class can use any monster set... and ultimates like leap are not reliable), and all relevant class skills having 6m-8m range...

    Rune Cage 28m (+AvA Range bonus near keeps) plus damage on a class with streak, expedition on demand, strongest shield in the game, a strong burst and execute and max damage from max range...

    yes, it is completely balanced, both on a direct skill comparison and on a class comparison (/sarcasm)

    DK is meant to use chains and other gap closers to make the fight a melee fight, and then talons, petrify, etc. to lock their opponent down. They also get wings to reflect damage back that is projectile based damage. Sorcerers objective is to keep the fight at range, and keep opponents at range by streaking out of melee range, or stunning someone at range to keep them from closing in on them. In the middle of all of that spatial struggle there are windows of opportunity for both sides to inflict damage. What you do in those windows of opportunity and how you set up for them is what makes the classes unique.

    No there is 0 window for damage when sorcs do so much damage if you stop dodge rolling and weaving heals in between you instantly get ticked for 5+ sources of damage and die.


    Its complete *** and anyone that tries to say magicka DPS isnt OP in PvP just use a infused fire damage flame staff and weave your spammable+ random stun amd add a dot and your hitting almost 15k dps ez.

    On top if that stamina class MUST slot 3-4 defensive skills at a minimum to survice while magicka needs just 1 or 2......


    No there is 0 balance. Mag should l2 kite and get big shield/dps nerf (add real counterplay other than waiting for mag to forget about refreshing shield)

    Give stamina more survivibility... everyone just moves way too fast for real pvp combat (also why can people literally walk/roll dodge through people??)

    You act like a sorcerer can perform that 5 ability combo at will and nothing could be further from the truth. First of all meteor has to be up, if its not up the rest of that combo will kill, I don't know, no one. Second the target cannot be CC immune, so if you cast forward momentum every 8 seconds rune cage has been countered permanently. With combinations of certain potions/poisons you don't even need to cast it every 8 seconds though its easier to track if you do.

    I use 4 defensive skills on my sorcerer and I only use 1 shield, some of those skills could be considered both offensive and defensive but there are definitely defensive benefits. If a DK is trying to fight a sorc at range the DK is at a disadvantage, if the sorc is trying to fight the DK in melee the sorc is at a disadvantage. Whoever wins the spatial battle has the upper hand.
  • Swimguy
    Swimguy
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    Ranger209 wrote: »
    Swimguy wrote: »
    Ranger209 wrote: »
    Petrify 8m + zero damage on a class with no escape tool, no execute, no innate class defense (shield, invisibility, teleport, whatever), no burst (Whip is no burst, its only marginally if at all better than Force Pulse or Empowered Weapon and can be dodged even if Power Lash could proc, and every class can use any monster set... and ultimates like leap are not reliable), and all relevant class skills having 6m-8m range...

    Rune Cage 28m (+AvA Range bonus near keeps) plus damage on a class with streak, expedition on demand, strongest shield in the game, a strong burst and execute and max damage from max range...

    yes, it is completely balanced, both on a direct skill comparison and on a class comparison (/sarcasm)

    DK is meant to use chains and other gap closers to make the fight a melee fight, and then talons, petrify, etc. to lock their opponent down. They also get wings to reflect damage back that is projectile based damage. Sorcerers objective is to keep the fight at range, and keep opponents at range by streaking out of melee range, or stunning someone at range to keep them from closing in on them. In the middle of all of that spatial struggle there are windows of opportunity for both sides to inflict damage. What you do in those windows of opportunity and how you set up for them is what makes the classes unique.

    No there is 0 window for damage when sorcs do so much damage if you stop dodge rolling and weaving heals in between you instantly get ticked for 5+ sources of damage and die.


    Its complete *** and anyone that tries to say magicka DPS isnt OP in PvP just use a infused fire damage flame staff and weave your spammable+ random stun amd add a dot and your hitting almost 15k dps ez.

    On top if that stamina class MUST slot 3-4 defensive skills at a minimum to survice while magicka needs just 1 or 2......


    No there is 0 balance. Mag should l2 kite and get big shield/dps nerf (add real counterplay other than waiting for mag to forget about refreshing shield)

    Give stamina more survivibility... everyone just moves way too fast for real pvp combat (also why can people literally walk/roll dodge through people??)

    You act like a sorcerer can perform that 5 ability combo at will and nothing could be further from the truth. First of all meteor has to be up, if its not up the rest of that combo will kill, I don't know, no one. Second the target cannot be CC immune, so if you cast forward momentum every 8 seconds rune cage has been countered permanently. With combinations of certain potions/poisons you don't even need to cast it every 8 seconds though its easier to track if you do.

    I use 4 defensive skills on my sorcerer and I only use 1 shield, some of those skills could be considered both offensive and defensive but there are definitely defensive benefits. If a DK is trying to fight a sorc at range the DK is at a disadvantage, if the sorc is trying to fight the DK in melee the sorc is at a disadvantage. Whoever wins the spatial battle has the upper hand.

    lol no not instantly but light attack+ infused wpn enchant weaved in between curse+wrath+rune cage+spammable/frags can be done in less than 5 seconds or so and thats ez 20k damage hitting with majority during the stun. even then light attack+wpn enchants and spammable do pretty good damage alone especially in XvX which is basically all of pvp now.

    no class should have really good defensive abilities and much better offensive capabilities (possible to get 100% crit resist uptime through shields that already can potentially mitigate 100% of the damage you would take.) along with an escape and really really good passive healing.

    you have damage. You have defense. You have mobility.

    dont whine you dont have a snare/slow cleanse/immunity. shuffle is really mediocre and the 2h skill is a tad better but you need the burst heal cause medium kinda sucks... immovables are bis and anyone can use them.


    also forward momentum does not make you immune to stuns...... just snares and roots. runecage is a stun....lol?
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Swimguy wrote: »
    Ranger209 wrote: »
    Swimguy wrote: »
    Ranger209 wrote: »
    Petrify 8m + zero damage on a class with no escape tool, no execute, no innate class defense (shield, invisibility, teleport, whatever), no burst (Whip is no burst, its only marginally if at all better than Force Pulse or Empowered Weapon and can be dodged even if Power Lash could proc, and every class can use any monster set... and ultimates like leap are not reliable), and all relevant class skills having 6m-8m range...

    Rune Cage 28m (+AvA Range bonus near keeps) plus damage on a class with streak, expedition on demand, strongest shield in the game, a strong burst and execute and max damage from max range...

    yes, it is completely balanced, both on a direct skill comparison and on a class comparison (/sarcasm)

    DK is meant to use chains and other gap closers to make the fight a melee fight, and then talons, petrify, etc. to lock their opponent down. They also get wings to reflect damage back that is projectile based damage. Sorcerers objective is to keep the fight at range, and keep opponents at range by streaking out of melee range, or stunning someone at range to keep them from closing in on them. In the middle of all of that spatial struggle there are windows of opportunity for both sides to inflict damage. What you do in those windows of opportunity and how you set up for them is what makes the classes unique.

    No there is 0 window for damage when sorcs do so much damage if you stop dodge rolling and weaving heals in between you instantly get ticked for 5+ sources of damage and die.


    Its complete *** and anyone that tries to say magicka DPS isnt OP in PvP just use a infused fire damage flame staff and weave your spammable+ random stun amd add a dot and your hitting almost 15k dps ez.

    On top if that stamina class MUST slot 3-4 defensive skills at a minimum to survice while magicka needs just 1 or 2......


    No there is 0 balance. Mag should l2 kite and get big shield/dps nerf (add real counterplay other than waiting for mag to forget about refreshing shield)

    Give stamina more survivibility... everyone just moves way too fast for real pvp combat (also why can people literally walk/roll dodge through people??)

    You act like a sorcerer can perform that 5 ability combo at will and nothing could be further from the truth. First of all meteor has to be up, if its not up the rest of that combo will kill, I don't know, no one. Second the target cannot be CC immune, so if you cast forward momentum every 8 seconds rune cage has been countered permanently. With combinations of certain potions/poisons you don't even need to cast it every 8 seconds though its easier to track if you do.

    I use 4 defensive skills on my sorcerer and I only use 1 shield, some of those skills could be considered both offensive and defensive but there are definitely defensive benefits. If a DK is trying to fight a sorc at range the DK is at a disadvantage, if the sorc is trying to fight the DK in melee the sorc is at a disadvantage. Whoever wins the spatial battle has the upper hand.

    lol no not instantly but light attack+ infused wpn enchant weaved in between curse+wrath+rune cage+spammable/frags can be done in less than 5 seconds or so and thats ez 20k damage hitting with majority during the stun. even then light attack+wpn enchants and spammable do pretty good damage alone especially in XvX which is basically all of pvp now.

    no class should have really good defensive abilities and much better offensive capabilities (possible to get 100% crit resist uptime through shields that already can potentially mitigate 100% of the damage you would take.) along with an escape and really really good passive healing.

    you have damage. You have defense. You have mobility.

    dont whine you dont have a snare/slow cleanse/immunity. shuffle is really mediocre and the 2h skill is a tad better but you need the burst heal cause medium kinda sucks... immovables are bis and anyone can use them.


    also forward momentum does not make you immune to stuns...... just snares and roots. runecage is a stun....lol?

    Light attack + infused can be used on literally any class, so stop right there going down that line, that isn't sorc specific burst.

    Here are where sorc's stand without rune cage.

    Their burst consists of curse, frag, fury mainly, without rune cage meteor is useless and then have to rely on dawnbreaker which is a stamina melee ult on a magicka ranged class. If you counter any of a sorc's burst they cannot kill you.

    Curse is countered by templars so half the sorc burst is countered by this class and it's stupidly hard to burst them as they all seem to be wearing heavy with 25-35k anyway.

    Warden, they absorb frags which is a good chunk of burst. This makes it annoyingly hard to kill wardens, especially if you add all the heals and how tanky they are as a class.

    Dk's. Wings counters frags and are easy to keep up. Tanky dk's are very annoying for a sorc and good mag dk's counter sorc's because the dots eat shields and when your hardest hitting skill gets reflected you become limited.

    Nb's - Mag nb's just counter mag sorcs period. A mag nb should never lose a 1v1 with a mag sorc. Stam nb's are annoying to fight because without rune cage you can't really hit them. With shields you have 4s to go offensive if they're aren't melted. They just dodge roll and go into cloak and i can't really do anything about it, detect pots or not. With rune cage it gives a chance to actually do dmg but without it i'm down to just hoping i hit them and keeping curse on them.

    Sorc - Mag sorc vs mag sorc only ends when one of them gets bored. Stam sorc is likely the only type of class you can deal with without rune cage.


    If you want to talk whats better for 1vx/ small scale then stamina is always better just because of the way its defence e.g. dodgeroll scales with more players.

    If there is 2 people on a mag sorc then shields are quite good and will hold if they are bad, if they're good then they'll kill the sorc easy because the sorc won't be able to go on offence. If there are two on a stam user then dodge roll is still effectively going to avoid most dmg everytime its used while magicka has to eat the dmg with shields. Both can easily deal with the 2 people spamming light attacks.


    Now if there is 10 people the situation changes. The shield user will have to eat the dmg from all 10 and shields become a lot less effective while the stamina user can still dodge and avoid all the dmg still.

    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    @leepalmer95

    Dodge scales well true, but only against noobs who only slot dodgeable single target skills. Those same noobs are not dealing enough damage to get through a good sorcs shields most of the time. I've seen it time and time again where 6-10 kids are plinking away against a sorc in the open and they do nothing until someone else shows up to kill it.

    Against decent to good players there are more than enough undodgeable skills to drop any perma dodge roller. There is a small gap where you have players that aren't utter garbage, but also are not experienced enough to deal with dodge, in this gap stam dodge is better than shields.

    Further many good mag sorcs can and do make use of dodge rolling to avoid projectiles. While mag sorcs can only make limited strategic use of dodge, it is just as effect for them as for stam. Stam does not have the equivalent limited use on shields. To have a similar effect would be for a stam player to have the shield strength of mag but only have a small mag pool to work with.

    More stam does not equate to stronger dodge only more dodge, more mag does equate to stronger shields and more shields. The counters to dodge are many and varied, the counters to shields are select and few.



    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    I am not trying to say that Shields are overpowered, only that there is an inherent inequity that makes things difficult to balance. Dodge vs Shields is not really a 1v1 comparison. Also dodge performs far weaker than many on here would imply, if it didn't you would see far more rolly polly medium builds out there.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • Swimguy
    Swimguy
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    Swimguy wrote: »
    Ranger209 wrote: »
    Swimguy wrote: »
    Ranger209 wrote: »
    Petrify 8m + zero damage on a class with no escape tool, no execute, no innate class defense (shield, invisibility, teleport, whatever), no burst (Whip is no burst, its only marginally if at all better than Force Pulse or Empowered Weapon and can be dodged even if Power Lash could proc, and every class can use any monster set... and ultimates like leap are not reliable), and all relevant class skills having 6m-8m range...

    Rune Cage 28m (+AvA Range bonus near keeps) plus damage on a class with streak, expedition on demand, strongest shield in the game, a strong burst and execute and max damage from max range...

    yes, it is completely balanced, both on a direct skill comparison and on a class comparison (/sarcasm)

    DK is meant to use chains and other gap closers to make the fight a melee fight, and then talons, petrify, etc. to lock their opponent down. They also get wings to reflect damage back that is projectile based damage. Sorcerers objective is to keep the fight at range, and keep opponents at range by streaking out of melee range, or stunning someone at range to keep them from closing in on them. In the middle of all of that spatial struggle there are windows of opportunity for both sides to inflict damage. What you do in those windows of opportunity and how you set up for them is what makes the classes unique.

    No there is 0 window for damage when sorcs do so much damage if you stop dodge rolling and weaving heals in between you instantly get ticked for 5+ sources of damage and die.


    Its complete *** and anyone that tries to say magicka DPS isnt OP in PvP just use a infused fire damage flame staff and weave your spammable+ random stun amd add a dot and your hitting almost 15k dps ez.

    On top if that stamina class MUST slot 3-4 defensive skills at a minimum to survice while magicka needs just 1 or 2......


    No there is 0 balance. Mag should l2 kite and get big shield/dps nerf (add real counterplay other than waiting for mag to forget about refreshing shield)

    Give stamina more survivibility... everyone just moves way too fast for real pvp combat (also why can people literally walk/roll dodge through people??)

    You act like a sorcerer can perform that 5 ability combo at will and nothing could be further from the truth. First of all meteor has to be up, if its not up the rest of that combo will kill, I don't know, no one. Second the target cannot be CC immune, so if you cast forward momentum every 8 seconds rune cage has been countered permanently. With combinations of certain potions/poisons you don't even need to cast it every 8 seconds though its easier to track if you do.

    I use 4 defensive skills on my sorcerer and I only use 1 shield, some of those skills could be considered both offensive and defensive but there are definitely defensive benefits. If a DK is trying to fight a sorc at range the DK is at a disadvantage, if the sorc is trying to fight the DK in melee the sorc is at a disadvantage. Whoever wins the spatial battle has the upper hand.

    lol no not instantly but light attack+ infused wpn enchant weaved in between curse+wrath+rune cage+spammable/frags can be done in less than 5 seconds or so and thats ez 20k damage hitting with majority during the stun. even then light attack+wpn enchants and spammable do pretty good damage alone especially in XvX which is basically all of pvp now.

    no class should have really good defensive abilities and much better offensive capabilities (possible to get 100% crit resist uptime through shields that already can potentially mitigate 100% of the damage you would take.) along with an escape and really really good passive healing.

    you have damage. You have defense. You have mobility.

    dont whine you dont have a snare/slow cleanse/immunity. shuffle is really mediocre and the 2h skill is a tad better but you need the burst heal cause medium kinda sucks... immovables are bis and anyone can use them.


    also forward momentum does not make you immune to stuns...... just snares and roots. runecage is a stun....lol?

    Light attack + infused can be used on literally any class, so stop right there going down that line, that isn't sorc specific burst.

    Here are where sorc's stand without rune cage.

    Their burst consists of curse, frag, fury mainly, without rune cage meteor is useless and then have to rely on dawnbreaker which is a stamina melee ult on a magicka ranged class. If you counter any of a sorc's burst they cannot kill you.

    Curse is countered by templars so half the sorc burst is countered by this class and it's stupidly hard to burst them as they all seem to be wearing heavy with 25-35k anyway.

    Warden, they absorb frags which is a good chunk of burst. This makes it annoyingly hard to kill wardens, especially if you add all the heals and how tanky they are as a class.

    Dk's. Wings counters frags and are easy to keep up. Tanky dk's are very annoying for a sorc and good mag dk's counter sorc's because the dots eat shields and when your hardest hitting skill gets reflected you become limited.

    Nb's - Mag nb's just counter mag sorcs period. A mag nb should never lose a 1v1 with a mag sorc. Stam nb's are annoying to fight because without rune cage you can't really hit them. With shields you have 4s to go offensive if they're aren't melted. They just dodge roll and go into cloak and i can't really do anything about it, detect pots or not. With rune cage it gives a chance to actually do dmg but without it i'm down to just hoping i hit them and keeping curse on them.

    Sorc - Mag sorc vs mag sorc only ends when one of them gets bored. Stam sorc is likely the only type of class you can deal with without rune cage.


    If you want to talk whats better for 1vx/ small scale then stamina is always better just because of the way its defence e.g. dodgeroll scales with more players.

    If there is 2 people on a mag sorc then shields are quite good and will hold if they are bad, if they're good then they'll kill the sorc easy because the sorc won't be able to go on offence. If there are two on a stam user then dodge roll is still effectively going to avoid most dmg everytime its used while magicka has to eat the dmg with shields. Both can easily deal with the 2 people spamming light attacks.


    Now if there is 10 people the situation changes. The shield user will have to eat the dmg from all 10 and shields become a lot less effective while the stamina user can still dodge and avoid all the dmg still.

    Light attack infused weaving:
    Yes obviously its not class specific but it is at a minimum 5x easier to make full use of the infused enchant on ranged classes, stamina or magicka, when compared to any melee spec
  • Swimguy
    Swimguy
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    Swimguy wrote: »
    Ranger209 wrote: »
    Swimguy wrote: »
    Ranger209 wrote: »
    Petrify 8m + zero damage on a class with no escape tool, no execute, no innate class defense (shield, invisibility, teleport, whatever), no burst (Whip is no burst, its only marginally if at all better than Force Pulse or Empowered Weapon and can be dodged even if Power Lash could proc, and every class can use any monster set... and ultimates like leap are not reliable), and all relevant class skills having 6m-8m range...

    Rune Cage 28m (+AvA Range bonus near keeps) plus damage on a class with streak, expedition on demand, strongest shield in the game, a strong burst and execute and max damage from max range...

    yes, it is completely balanced, both on a direct skill comparison and on a class comparison (/sarcasm)

    DK is meant to use chains and other gap closers to make the fight a melee fight, and then talons, petrify, etc. to lock their opponent down. They also get wings to reflect damage back that is projectile based damage. Sorcerers objective is to keep the fight at range, and keep opponents at range by streaking out of melee range, or stunning someone at range to keep them from closing in on them. In the middle of all of that spatial struggle there are windows of opportunity for both sides to inflict damage. What you do in those windows of opportunity and how you set up for them is what makes the classes unique.

    No there is 0 window for damage when sorcs do so much damage if you stop dodge rolling and weaving heals in between you instantly get ticked for 5+ sources of damage and die.


    Its complete *** and anyone that tries to say magicka DPS isnt OP in PvP just use a infused fire damage flame staff and weave your spammable+ random stun amd add a dot and your hitting almost 15k dps ez.

    On top if that stamina class MUST slot 3-4 defensive skills at a minimum to survice while magicka needs just 1 or 2......


    No there is 0 balance. Mag should l2 kite and get big shield/dps nerf (add real counterplay other than waiting for mag to forget about refreshing shield)

    Give stamina more survivibility... everyone just moves way too fast for real pvp combat (also why can people literally walk/roll dodge through people??)

    You act like a sorcerer can perform that 5 ability combo at will and nothing could be further from the truth. First of all meteor has to be up, if its not up the rest of that combo will kill, I don't know, no one. Second the target cannot be CC immune, so if you cast forward momentum every 8 seconds rune cage has been countered permanently. With combinations of certain potions/poisons you don't even need to cast it every 8 seconds though its easier to track if you do.

    I use 4 defensive skills on my sorcerer and I only use 1 shield, some of those skills could be considered both offensive and defensive but there are definitely defensive benefits. If a DK is trying to fight a sorc at range the DK is at a disadvantage, if the sorc is trying to fight the DK in melee the sorc is at a disadvantage. Whoever wins the spatial battle has the upper hand.

    lol no not instantly but light attack+ infused wpn enchant weaved in between curse+wrath+rune cage+spammable/frags can be done in less than 5 seconds or so and thats ez 20k damage hitting with majority during the stun. even then light attack+wpn enchants and spammable do pretty good damage alone especially in XvX which is basically all of pvp now.

    no class should have really good defensive abilities and much better offensive capabilities (possible to get 100% crit resist uptime through shields that already can potentially mitigate 100% of the damage you would take.) along with an escape and really really good passive healing.

    you have damage. You have defense. You have mobility.

    dont whine you dont have a snare/slow cleanse/immunity. shuffle is really mediocre and the 2h skill is a tad better but you need the burst heal cause medium kinda sucks... immovables are bis and anyone can use them.


    also forward momentum does not make you immune to stuns...... just snares and roots. runecage is a stun....lol?

    Light attack + infused can be used on literally any class, so stop right there going down that line, that isn't sorc specific burst.

    Here are where sorc's stand without rune cage.

    Their burst consists of curse, frag, fury mainly, without rune cage meteor is useless and then have to rely on dawnbreaker which is a stamina melee ult on a magicka ranged class. If you counter any of a sorc's burst they cannot kill you.

    Curse is countered by templars so half the sorc burst is countered by this class and it's stupidly hard to burst them as they all seem to be wearing heavy with 25-35k anyway.

    Warden, they absorb frags which is a good chunk of burst. This makes it annoyingly hard to kill wardens, especially if you add all the heals and how tanky they are as a class.

    Dk's. Wings counters frags and are easy to keep up. Tanky dk's are very annoying for a sorc and good mag dk's counter sorc's because the dots eat shields and when your hardest hitting skill gets reflected you become limited.

    Nb's - Mag nb's just counter mag sorcs period. A mag nb should never lose a 1v1 with a mag sorc. Stam nb's are annoying to fight because without rune cage you can't really hit them. With shields you have 4s to go offensive if they're aren't melted. They just dodge roll and go into cloak and i can't really do anything about it, detect pots or not. With rune cage it gives a chance to actually do dmg but without it i'm down to just hoping i hit them and keeping curse on them.

    Sorc - Mag sorc vs mag sorc only ends when one of them gets bored. Stam sorc is likely the only type of class you can deal with without rune cage.


    If you want to talk whats better for 1vx/ small scale then stamina is always better just because of the way its defence e.g. dodgeroll scales with more players.

    If there is 2 people on a mag sorc then shields are quite good and will hold if they are bad, if they're good then they'll kill the sorc easy because the sorc won't be able to go on offence. If there are two on a stam user then dodge roll is still effectively going to avoid most dmg everytime its used while magicka has to eat the dmg with shields. Both can easily deal with the 2 people spamming light attacks.


    Now if there is 10 people the situation changes. The shield user will have to eat the dmg from all 10 and shields become a lot less effective while the stamina user can still dodge and avoid all the dmg still.

    Lol you say mag sorc v mag sorc only ends when one of them gets bored...... that proves my point they are OP and you said it yourself.


    You seem to forget that dodge rolling has an increased cost everytime you roll dodge and its stacks..... that meams if i roll dodge once the next one is going to cost more, and so is the next one. So much stamina that i can only sustain to roll dodge 5-6 times whilst weaving healing in between. If i wanted to take a second to wear off the dodge roll de buff and i dont have LOS and im not running a trollking build you basically insta die if a good magsorc/magblade or 2 or more players are on you.

    At least with magicka you can shield up use your escape tool turn around stack enough dmage and a unblockable/undodgble stun within 6. To either kill or subdue him for a few seconds to focus on the other guy. )mag dk and magplars are meant to heal up and tank and run)

    Meteor is still a great ulti with runecage being dodgeable because it still hit tagets that are dodging...... so what does that mean??
    You can stun targets blocking meteor just before it hits to ensure the they facetank 100% of the damage and you can stun targets (lol) roll dodging the rune cage/light weaves.

    Rune cage every 5 seconds costs like 1600 (4k cost 4,000/5=800 amd because stam comes every 2 seconds that would be 1600) stam regen anyway (estimate because i couldnt find numbers from 5 min search).

    I mean really if you want me to go on the only balanced part of magsorc is that shields cannot crit and the only purge they have is a 5pc set and like 6k mag ability. Through shacklebreaker and tri stat u can ez get 14-15k stam and have 21k hp+ Another set like the best defensive set in the game wizards riposte..... which has great 2-4pcs... or go full damage and absolutely melt people.

    Also spambaldes should b ez rn, just use mines and pop then as they jump>rune cage and its a free kill.. use the mage guild skill? It works. There are multiple hard 100% direct counters to cloak in the game but 0 counters to shields except 1 really bad set and 1 really cancerous proc set. No infused dmg health glyphs dont count. If you died by 1k dps gtfo. The only "counter" people came up with was to wait until the 6 seconds is up and CC them. But that relies on the player sucking.....

    Cloak has multiple hard counters that completely disable for short period of time. All longer than 3-4 seconds i think.

    Dodge roll: some skills cant be dodged and high dmages ultis such as metoer and DBOS cant be dodged

    Blocking: just keep parsing theyll run out of stam.

    Shields: wait until the enemy forgets to put up shield??

    Yeah sounds like fair counterplay to me.....

    Id be fine with strong shields on magsorcs if they only had 1 mediocre class heal. Besides all the good sorcs use resto backbar anyway.
  • Swimguy
    Swimguy
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    @leepalmer95

    Dodge scales well true, but only against noobs who only slot dodgeable single target skills. Those same noobs are not dealing enough damage to get through a good sorcs shields most of the time. I've seen it time and time again where 6-10 kids are plinking away against a sorc in the open and they do nothing until someone else shows up to kill it.

    Against decent to good players there are more than enough undodgeable skills to drop any perma dodge roller. There is a small gap where you have players that aren't utter garbage, but also are not experienced enough to deal with dodge, in this gap stam dodge is better than shields.

    Further many good mag sorcs can and do make use of dodge rolling to avoid projectiles. While mag sorcs can only make limited strategic use of dodge, it is just as effect for them as for stam. Stam does not have the equivalent limited use on shields. To have a similar effect would be for a stam player to have the shield strength of mag but only have a small mag pool to work with.

    More stam does not equate to stronger dodge only more dodge, more mag does equate to stronger shields and more shields. The counters to dodge are many and varied, the counters to shields are select and few.



    You forgot the 33% increased cost per roll dodge within 3 seconds or so.

    If i never wanted to hit this debuff as a stamblade id certainly die within 1 dodge roll or two. as a stam sorc or dk blocking helps inbetween but its still not enough to survive. I dont have a stamden and dont play stamplar really so i cant say much but id imagine its about the same.

  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    You guys are going to complain about any damage if only it’s coming from a Sorc, right?
    Main characters:
    Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 40 - Stormproof (PC EU)
    Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)

    Other characters:
    Fearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)
    Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)
    Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDK
    Valirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBlade
    Turuna - AD Altmer magBlade
    Kheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDK
    Kibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - Stormproof
    Yavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWarden
    Azog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWarden
    Maeglin the Dark Elf - DC Dunmer mDK (relegated to crafting duty)
    Rawlith Khaj'ra - AD Orc stamWarden
    Tu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar

    All chars 50 @ CP 950+. Playing solo PvP mostly on EU PC Sotha Sil (or with a wonderful guild of friends)
  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    There's no point arguing with these people. I've given up.
    You counter one bit of misinformation with facts, then they shift their argument to something else and you just go around in circles...
    Dodge-dodge-cloak stsmblades will be meta next patch(again), yet we see them saying it's bad.....

    Give up, man, you're wasting your energy.

    Sorc' will always be a noob-cannon, and noobs will always cry about it.
    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • Swimguy
    Swimguy
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    Biro123 wrote: »
    There's no point arguing with these people. I've given up.
    You counter one bit of misinformation with facts, then they shift their argument to something else and you just go around in circles...
    Dodge-dodge-cloak stsmblades will be meta next patch(again), yet we see them saying it's bad.....

    Give up, man, you're wasting your energy.

    Sorc' will always be a noob-cannon, and noobs will always cry about it.

    if a stamblade dodges twice within 3 seconds and then cloaks he just used about 20% of his stamina and 30% of his magic pool. is that really that OP? considering you can 100% directly counter those multiple ways and he gets stuck with the cost of using them. rune cage costs 1.6k stam regen if used every 5 seconds. fossilize is a lot more. just for a simple escape 20% stamina 30% magicka. so that means if you counter him in the middle of that. A. less resources to dodge roll with. B. (most important) his dodge next roll is going to cost something like 6k-7k and maybe even 8,000 stamina..... so if you really think dodge rolling is OP think again. mag sorcs can spam 10 shields and use half what 10 dodge rolls would cost. and C. he may not be ready for it. Ganking is a thing for a reason.

    "noob-cannon" lol. class has 2nd highest pvp dps and probably the highest burst. along with 3 sources of passive healing (i think), possible to get 100% crit resist and can 100% mitigate 15k damage over every 2 seconds. can block while shields are up for 15% cost reduction (*** i hope i didnt just tell you how to play). so yes the class is clearly OP and the magblade isnt much different just sustained dps vs magsorcs burst. oh yeah dont forget if you run petsorc you can just move sideways back and forth and your oppenent while have no choice but to dps your pets, many times i havent been able to gap close or get to sorcs just because a matriarch or atronach was on top of them and absorbing all the damage.

    dodge roll and cloak is really not as hard to counter as everyone thinks, they just need to get off autopilot and pay attention and actually use skills that counter cloak or something thats undodgeable. and they eventually drop. for magblade might be harder but you can always beat stamblades at the cloak game.

    What do i do against shield spammer? wait until they run out of magic? Stuns only constantly work against BAD sorcs and that is universal across all classes. A good sorc might take some hp damage but they break free and re apply shield, use escape gtfo and start bursting again. they have so much passive healing its not funny. also immovables grant them 10 seconds of stun immunity so thats honestly a horrible arguemnt to "Counter shields"

    alos why does everyone always think people complaing about magsorc play stamblade? i have one but i dont play it that much. I play stam sorc primarily and its pretty evident how much damage magblades and magsorcs do compared to any other spec.
    Feanor wrote: »
    You guys are going to complain about any damage if only it’s coming from a Sorc, right?

    l2 read post. no magblades and magsorcs have too much at their disposal. AND i said ranged classes wether stamina or magicka have a clear offensive and defensive advantage compared to melee because of lag, movement speed, and the fact theta they can kite target really easily. if you have major expedition on console chances are your opponent will have to gap close 2-3 times before they can hit another ability.

    while its 100% smooth sailing for ranged classes because they just need to dps and kite.

    what this does is turn the meta into:

    mages: DPS class, wizards riposte is also the BEST defensive set in game, while having access to much much better damaging proc sets. stam MIGHT have better max stat sets but not by a lot...... wizards+willpower/dungeon staff+shackle+MM of choice is the universal OP 1vx now.

    stamina nb: the only melee dps class going to to be restricted to ganking and only really ganking.

    All other stamina: have to be majority tank to survive due to dps class just dps parsing on them from ranged.

    thats no fun and if thats the meta you want then you dont know what balance is.

    im not asking for sorcs to get straight nerfed and have numbers lowers. I just want a counterplay options that dont revolve around my characters gear choice and glyphs. I want counter PLAY as in a way through my gamePLAY, not my build, to counter shields and/or the crazy burst that magsorc has and dps magblade has.
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    I‘m just leaving this here while bowing out.
    dodge roll and cloak is really not as hard to counter as everyone thinks, they just need to get off autopilot and pay attention and actually use skills that counter cloak or something thats undodgeable. and they eventually drop

    That comment right after 4.1.4 changed RC and DR is pure gold. No need for further discussion. And btw, CC immunity still is 7 seconds. Not 5.
    Edited by Feanor on August 7, 2018 2:33PM
    Main characters:
    Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 40 - Stormproof (PC EU)
    Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)

    Other characters:
    Fearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)
    Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)
    Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDK
    Valirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBlade
    Turuna - AD Altmer magBlade
    Kheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDK
    Kibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - Stormproof
    Yavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWarden
    Azog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWarden
    Maeglin the Dark Elf - DC Dunmer mDK (relegated to crafting duty)
    Rawlith Khaj'ra - AD Orc stamWarden
    Tu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar

    All chars 50 @ CP 950+. Playing solo PvP mostly on EU PC Sotha Sil (or with a wonderful guild of friends)
  • Micah_Bayer
    Micah_Bayer
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    Petrify 8m + zero damage on a class with no escape tool, no execute, no innate class defense (shield, invisibility, teleport, whatever), no burst (Whip is no burst, its only marginally if at all better than Force Pulse or Empowered Weapon and can be dodged even if Power Lash could proc, and every class can use any monster set... and ultimates like leap are not reliable), and all relevant class skills having 6m-8m range...

    Rune Cage 28m (+AvA Range bonus near keeps) plus damage on a class with streak, expedition on demand, strongest shield in the game, a strong burst and execute and max damage from max range...

    yes, it is completely balanced, both on a direct skill comparison and on a class comparison (/sarcasm)

    What about fear and 8% more dmg there are such things as melee mag nb. Never heard of a melee sorc lol
  • bardx86
    bardx86
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    Feanor wrote: »
    I‘m just leaving this here while bowing out.
    dodge roll and cloak is really not as hard to counter as everyone thinks, they just need to get off autopilot and pay attention and actually use skills that counter cloak or something thats undodgeable. and they eventually drop

    That comment right after 4.1.4 changed RC and DR is pure gold. No need for further discussion. And btw, CC immunity still is 7 seconds. Not 5.

    OMFG did he just say that? Talk about tone deaf.
  • Swimguy
    Swimguy
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    bardx86 wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    I‘m just leaving this here while bowing out.
    dodge roll and cloak is really not as hard to counter as everyone thinks, they just need to get off autopilot and pay attention and actually use skills that counter cloak or something thats undodgeable. and they eventually drop

    That comment right after 4.1.4 changed RC and DR is pure gold. No need for further discussion. And btw, CC immunity still is 7 seconds. Not 5.

    OMFG did he just say that? Talk about tone deaf.

    it might be 7 but I havent found a ZOS quote and after looking on google 5 different people have said 5 seconds and 7-8 seconds. either way its a lot of stamina especially in non CP (bgs and campaign) where break free cost upwards up 5-6k.
  • Swimguy
    Swimguy
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    Swimguy wrote: »
    bardx86 wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    I‘m just leaving this here while bowing out.
    dodge roll and cloak is really not as hard to counter as everyone thinks, they just need to get off autopilot and pay attention and actually use skills that counter cloak or something thats undodgeable. and they eventually drop

    That comment right after 4.1.4 changed RC and DR is pure gold. No need for further discussion. And btw, CC immunity still is 7 seconds. Not 5.

    OMFG did he just say that? Talk about tone deaf.

    it might be 7 but I havent found a ZOS quote and after looking on google 5 different people have said 5 seconds and 7-8 seconds. either way its a lot of stamina especially in non CP (bgs and campaign) where break free cost upwards up 5-6k.
    Feanor wrote: »
    I‘m just leaving this here while bowing out.
    dodge roll and cloak is really not as hard to counter as everyone thinks, they just need to get off autopilot and pay attention and actually use skills that counter cloak or something thats undodgeable. and they eventually drop

    That comment right after 4.1.4 changed RC and DR is pure gold. No need for further discussion. And btw, CC immunity still is 7 seconds. Not 5.

    maybe stop spamming stuns?... if your whole gameplay revolves around stunning people to get the kill then you actually need to l2p. sorc still has plenty of undodgeable abilities nevertheless... for example streak? lightning storm is undodgeable and could bring people out of stealth if im not mistaken.... the execute on fury or wrath or whatever is undodgeable. daedric minefield is undodgeable (no one talks about how this is the best tool for nbs, instead they say rune cage, rune cage is just OP in general). also i think curse is undodge too but idk.

    also streak stun combo execute makes it easy to t bag ur opponent.

    in all reality not all stamblades spam roll dodge or can afford. and if they do bet on a stealth coming up to regen stamina. if you let him stealth sucks for you. because you LET him regen his stamina.

    if everytime you shielded you opponent just stopped attacking until it was gone it be a loooot easier to heal right?

    its not even magsorc that im solely talking about. Ice blockade permafrost mag wardens are even worse. melee magblades/ magblades in general do great damage but easy to counter if they arent really good because they try to shield and cloak and as a stam sorc, stam/mag dk, stam/mag blade have never had a problem with perma stealthers because i slot hurricane, evil hunter, grothdarr, dk armor skill, mass hysteria, jabs, DBOS is useful after enough experience ive literally been fighting stamblades/magblades and watch them stealth only too immediately press DBOS and stun them.

    there is a lot of counters to stealth

    there is a few counters to healers and HoT stacking

    but there is one trash counter to shields... why? and why do light armor users also get the BEST dmg reduction set (wizards riposte) with great 2-4 stats. along with having much better monster mask scaling. (skoria and zaan)

  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    Swimguy wrote: »
    bardx86 wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    I‘m just leaving this here while bowing out.
    dodge roll and cloak is really not as hard to counter as everyone thinks, they just need to get off autopilot and pay attention and actually use skills that counter cloak or something thats undodgeable. and they eventually drop

    That comment right after 4.1.4 changed RC and DR is pure gold. No need for further discussion. And btw, CC immunity still is 7 seconds. Not 5.

    OMFG did he just say that? Talk about tone deaf.

    it might be 7 but I havent found a ZOS quote and after looking on google 5 different people have said 5 seconds and 7-8 seconds. either way its a lot of stamina especially in non CP (bgs and campaign) where break free cost upwards up 5-6k.

    I conveniently quoted the 2.7.0 patch note for you on page 1 in this thread. You just chose to ignore it.

    And could you explain please why you think CC can be spammed? Immunity exists, although it doesn’t always work correctly. Doesn’t make stuns spammables though.
    Main characters:
    Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 40 - Stormproof (PC EU)
    Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)

    Other characters:
    Fearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)
    Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)
    Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDK
    Valirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBlade
    Turuna - AD Altmer magBlade
    Kheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDK
    Kibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - Stormproof
    Yavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWarden
    Azog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWarden
    Maeglin the Dark Elf - DC Dunmer mDK (relegated to crafting duty)
    Rawlith Khaj'ra - AD Orc stamWarden
    Tu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar

    All chars 50 @ CP 950+. Playing solo PvP mostly on EU PC Sotha Sil (or with a wonderful guild of friends)
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    Swimguy wrote: »
    Swimguy wrote: »
    bardx86 wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    I‘m just leaving this here while bowing out.
    dodge roll and cloak is really not as hard to counter as everyone thinks, they just need to get off autopilot and pay attention and actually use skills that counter cloak or something thats undodgeable. and they eventually drop

    That comment right after 4.1.4 changed RC and DR is pure gold. No need for further discussion. And btw, CC immunity still is 7 seconds. Not 5.

    OMFG did he just say that? Talk about tone deaf.

    it might be 7 but I havent found a ZOS quote and after looking on google 5 different people have said 5 seconds and 7-8 seconds. either way its a lot of stamina especially in non CP (bgs and campaign) where break free cost upwards up 5-6k.
    Feanor wrote: »
    I‘m just leaving this here while bowing out.
    dodge roll and cloak is really not as hard to counter as everyone thinks, they just need to get off autopilot and pay attention and actually use skills that counter cloak or something thats undodgeable. and they eventually drop

    That comment right after 4.1.4 changed RC and DR is pure gold. No need for further discussion. And btw, CC immunity still is 7 seconds. Not 5.

    maybe stop spamming stuns?... if your whole gameplay revolves around stunning people to get the kill then you actually need to l2p.

    I can't believed you just said that.
  • Priyasekarssk
    Priyasekarssk
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    KingJ wrote: »
    I think a counter to your counter should always exist.

    As long as block and Dodge are things, other things need to bypass block and dodge
    While I agree i don't think ability should do everything. Go through block,dodge .One or the other right now we have ability and sets that go through everything.

    Fear and fossilise have always gone through block or dodge though.

    They also are both melee range too. Think about that.

    They work on multiple people think about that. I am always happy to take runcage than fossilize or fear any day. Learn to make immovablity potions. Learn to make CC immunity up. L2P issue.
    Edited by Priyasekarssk on August 7, 2018 8:46PM
  • Priyasekarssk
    Priyasekarssk
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    Swimguy wrote: »
    Swimguy wrote: »
    bardx86 wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    I‘m just leaving this here while bowing out.
    dodge roll and cloak is really not as hard to counter as everyone thinks, they just need to get off autopilot and pay attention and actually use skills that counter cloak or something thats undodgeable. and they eventually drop

    That comment right after 4.1.4 changed RC and DR is pure gold. No need for further discussion. And btw, CC immunity still is 7 seconds. Not 5.

    OMFG did he just say that? Talk about tone deaf.

    it might be 7 but I havent found a ZOS quote and after looking on google 5 different people have said 5 seconds and 7-8 seconds. either way its a lot of stamina especially in non CP (bgs and campaign) where break free cost upwards up 5-6k.
    Feanor wrote: »
    I‘m just leaving this here while bowing out.
    dodge roll and cloak is really not as hard to counter as everyone thinks, they just need to get off autopilot and pay attention and actually use skills that counter cloak or something thats undodgeable. and they eventually drop

    That comment right after 4.1.4 changed RC and DR is pure gold. No need for further discussion. And btw, CC immunity still is 7 seconds. Not 5.

    maybe stop spamming stuns?... if your whole gameplay revolves around stunning people to get the kill then you actually need to l2p. sorc still has plenty of undodgeable abilities nevertheless... for example streak? lightning storm is undodgeable and could bring people out of stealth if im not mistaken.... the execute on fury or wrath or whatever is undodgeable. daedric minefield is undodgeable (no one talks about how this is the best tool for nbs, instead they say rune cage, rune cage is just OP in general). also i think curse is undodge too but idk.

    also streak stun combo execute makes it easy to t bag ur opponent.

    in all reality not all stamblades spam roll dodge or can afford. and if they do bet on a stealth coming up to regen stamina. if you let him stealth sucks for you. because you LET him regen his stamina.

    if everytime you shielded you opponent just stopped attacking until it was gone it be a loooot easier to heal right?

    its not even magsorc that im solely talking about. Ice blockade permafrost mag wardens are even worse. melee magblades/ magblades in general do great damage but easy to counter if they arent really good because they try to shield and cloak and as a stam sorc, stam/mag dk, stam/mag blade have never had a problem with perma stealthers because i slot hurricane, evil hunter, grothdarr, dk armor skill, mass hysteria, jabs, DBOS is useful after enough experience ive literally been fighting stamblades/magblades and watch them stealth only too immediately press DBOS and stun them.

    there is a lot of counters to stealth

    there is a few counters to healers and HoT stacking

    but there is one trash counter to shields... why? and why do light armor users also get the BEST dmg reduction set (wizards riposte) with great 2-4 stats. along with having much better monster mask scaling. (skoria and zaan)

    If anyone dont have know how make CC immunity up all the time its not others fault. Its l2P issue. Learn to make immovablity pots.

    A NB is more dangerous . Put all debuffs in range while hidden. Opponents cannot use immovablity pots. Back to back CC. Just how about play magic sorc problem solved.. Why noob NBs always look for more cheese ? magic sorc is noob race. NB is pro race. Just by making a NB everyone think themselves as pros try to do video stunts without putting any effort.
    NB wins over sorc any day if skills are equal and competent.
    Edited by Priyasekarssk on August 7, 2018 8:52PM
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