What makes incap OP?

Irylia

Pick which part of incap pushes the skill over the edge (performs better than the rest) in your opinion and why.

Xuhora

well... the combination of ALL OF THEM?
I'm sorry, but i really like the changes they made with wolfhunter

GrumpyDuckling

I don't think Incapacitating Strike over performs.

If a person wants to use a dodgeable, telegraphed ultimate with the potential to gain a stun, defile, and damage boost against one target and give up team assistance, multi-target, ultimate with less counters, defensive ultimate, or healing ultimate, then they should go for it. That is exactly the point of choosing one ultimate over another. Sacrifice [x] to gain [y].

Maryal

It's not OP. You should have listed that as a possible answer as well.

Strider__Roshin

This is a classic scenario of "heads I win, tails you lose".

Why even bother with a poll if this purpose is to inquire to what degree do people agree with you.

Irylia

Major defile

Lol knew all the nightblades would come in.
“ItS nOt Op”

thankyourat

Stun

It's the stun. If you think about it the only difference between incap and soul harvest is the stun. Most people think incap is broken and soul harvest is fine, and the stun is the only difference between those two abilities

LegendaryMage

The 20% damage buff is OP, stun + defile + good initial damage is all fine for a dodgeable single target ulty at that cost.

But once you factor in the additional damage modifier it provides, then it's a bit too much. Usually a relentless proc right after incap, and if it crits, gg hf. I'd be totally fine if it always stunned but the 20% damage bonus was removed.

Edziu

idk what is overperforming here..I as stamblade even not using that often incap than DBoS
my incap is just mor time dodget tha getting hit if I dont hit someone with it on cc or from stealth and here I much more prefer DBoS because of undodgable stun + also great dmg with not bad dot
incap for me is great only against damn tanks/healbots and then maybe for people in cc by someone other before or in choas so people just cant see everything

TL;DR
I as stamblade preffer more DBoS than incap (if not fighting against tanks/healbots) because its unddodgable with even better direct dmg hit with dot and uou are 100% sure someone wonth dodge this etc

Solariken

Stun

It's the stun, but also the speed at which you can Incap and follow up.

The stun nerf is bittersweet for me - it totally wrecks my combo on my stamblade but I also know how broken it was.

I would rather they keep the stun and just scale the damage based on how much ult you have saved. That way you can't full-bang someone hundy-zero every 10 seconds lol.

Biro123

Not seeing it coming?

Strider__Roshin

Biro123 wrote: »

Not seeing it coming?

That's irritating, but not unique to Incap. It's frustrating when your character suddenly freezes and drops dead then you see a dozen arrows hit you all at once. Thankfully the nerf to Incap coming will reduce the effectiveness of its ganking potential.

Strider__Roshin

Irylia wrote: »

Lol knew all the nightblades would come in.
“ItS nOt Op”

Well when you don't provide an option that disagrees with you how else are people suppose to disagree without commenting?

ak_pvp

I don't think its gamebreaking as others say, being ST, block/dodgable and all. Being able to use it, cloak then *** it out again 10s later is annoying. It is very strong in a lot of places but not specifically OP or targettable.

• Defile is overtuned in general, minor would be most fair, but then stacking issues (with new crest) exist.
• 20% increase in damage is very strong but useful for PvE and single target.
• Stun is strong but managable, also fear/SA from stealth exists.
• Damage is high, but there is higher, and can be mitigated, and its again a single targetted ult, would nerf for PvE too.
• Cost is low, but PvE uses this for war machine.

So aside from the obvious nerf to defiles in general, I don't know what can be done to properly balance it (the stun was half assed change tbh) without hurting it in PvE.

DDuke

Stun

Irylia wrote: »

Lol knew all the nightblades would come in.
“ItS nOt Op”

Nope, NB main here.


The stun on Incap is one of the biggest reasons why the class is too easy to play. It basically means you have a two button burst combo (Incap->Relentless) since you can land the Relentless with that Incap stun on target and prevent (most of) them from reacting before they're dead.

It's basically dragging down the skill floor of the class, like Rune Cage is doing to Sorc.


Atleast next patch this'll be addressed and NBs will need more complex skill rotations to get kills (and hopefully some will move on to play other classes when they find out it isn't easymode anymore).

GrumpyDuckling

Irylia wrote: »

Lol knew all the nightblades would come in.
“ItS nOt Op”

You haven't given a logical reason that supports your assertion that Incap is OP. It's clear as day to me why it isn't.

Incap is a dodgeable, telegraphed, melee range ultimate with the potential to gain a stun, defile, and damage boost against one target, which means the user gives up team assistance, multi-target, ultimate with less counters, defensive ultimate, or healing ultimate.

usmguy1234

Major defile

Cost and defile.

Ragnarock41

The combination of defile+damage taken debuff, and the bursty nature of stamden, making it too hard to recover from it.

When the next patch comes live, you will realize that stamblades are even stronger due to all the indirect cloak buffs.

f047ys3v3n

Irylia wrote: »

Pick which part of incap pushes the skill over the edge (performs better than the rest) in your opinion and why.

The rest? Is there another gank opening ultimate I am unaware of?

I guess there is the EP guy on PCNA running round doing 22k two hander ultimates to folks but he is massively running cheat engine on that.

Incap strike is a unique and powerfull ultimate so we should probably nerf and wreck it like anything else that is unique in class skill sets.

arkansas_ESO

Stun

I can't remember any complaints about the ultimate until they made the stun guaranteed. It's had a cheap cost (used to be cheaper), high damage, and reduced healing since the game came out.

Lord-Otto

The cost

The stun is the worst offender, but Dawnbreaker does that as well. It's just the combination of stun, damage, defile and empower at a lower cost than ultimates that do half the stuff, that pushes it over the top.

NightbladeMechanics

Stun

Solariken wrote: »

It's the stun, but also the speed at which you can Incap and follow up.

The stun nerf is bittersweet for me - it totally wrecks my combo on my stamblade but I also know how broken it was.

I would rather they keep the stun and just scale the damage based on how much ult you have saved. That way you can't full-bang someone hundy-zero every 10 seconds lol.

I was hoping they’d introduce a scaling factor like this back into the ability. It used to work similarly. Would have required more work, though, and the change they’ve put on pts introduces more than enough counterplay to take the edge off the ability. I will miss not having to think so hard about comboing though. XD

usmcjdking

Stun

It's the combination of all 4 tied into the follow-up damage. The one second it took you to breakfree was enough time for most stamblades to outright finish you - fights would end before they really began.

On live, a stamblade essentially has/her his entire bar of EHP to one-combo you back to the keep. Now incap from a secondary player or from a player in an advantageous situation won't quite have the presence it did, needing to be chained off the back of fear or SA stun from stealth for maximum efficiency.

kollege14a5

Stun

but i think ill switch to DBOS after the nerf

Vietfox

Other: the lack of target's skills.
Seriously, i get incapped as much as the average and can survive most of the times.

BillNye_Eso

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Pick which part of incap pushes the skill over the edge (performs better than the rest) in your opinion and why.

The rest? Is there another gank opening ultimate I am unaware of?

I guess there is the EP guy on PCNA running round doing 22k two hander ultimates to folks but he is massively running cheat engine on that.

Incap strike is a unique and powerfull ultimate so we should probably nerf and wreck it like anything else that is unique in class skill sets.

People like you shouldnt be posting on the forums
"He did something that i dont know how to do, hes probably cheating and an exploiter"

LiquidPony

Stun

LegendaryMage wrote: »

The 20% damage buff is OP, stun + defile + good initial damage is all fine for a dodgeable single target ulty at that cost.

But once you factor in the additional damage modifier it provides, then it's a bit too much. Usually a relentless proc right after incap, and if it crits, gg hf. I'd be totally fine if it always stunned but the 20% damage bonus was removed.

This would totally kill Incap as a viable PvE ultimate, because the 20% damage boost is literally the only thing that matters. The damage is paltry and the stun and defile are irrelevant.

Removing the 20% damage bonus is an absolutely awful idea.

LegendaryMage

LiquidPony wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

The 20% damage buff is OP, stun + defile + good initial damage is all fine for a dodgeable single target ulty at that cost.

But once you factor in the additional damage modifier it provides, then it's a bit too much. Usually a relentless proc right after incap, and if it crits, gg hf. I'd be totally fine if it always stunned but the 20% damage bonus was removed.

This would totally kill Incap as a viable PvE ultimate, because the 20% damage boost is literally the only thing that matters. The damage is paltry and the stun and defile are irrelevant.

Removing the 20% damage bonus is an absolutely awful idea.

To each their own. I find the damage bonus ridiculously OP in PVP when paired with defile and stun.

Strider__Roshin

LegendaryMage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

The 20% damage buff is OP, stun + defile + good initial damage is all fine for a dodgeable single target ulty at that cost.

But once you factor in the additional damage modifier it provides, then it's a bit too much. Usually a relentless proc right after incap, and if it crits, gg hf. I'd be totally fine if it always stunned but the 20% damage bonus was removed.

This would totally kill Incap as a viable PvE ultimate, because the 20% damage boost is literally the only thing that matters. The damage is paltry and the stun and defile are irrelevant.

Removing the 20% damage bonus is an absolutely awful idea.

To each their own. I find the damage bonus ridiculously OP in PVP when paired with defile and stun.

It really isn't. Against a target dummy if you use Incap followed by 5 LA weaved surprise attacks then compare that to DBoS followed by 5 LA weaved surprise attacks you'll see that the DoT applied provides more damage than the extra 20% via Incap. For me it Out-DPS Incap by 1.4k DPS, and this is with 81 into Master-at-Arms, and 0 into Thaurmaturge. In a non-CP environment, the DoT from Dawnbreaker would be even more powerful, and against a vampire or WW even more so.

CyrusArya

The 20% dmg buff

Daus wrote: »

It really isn't. Against a target dummy if you use Incap followed by 5 LA weaved surprise attacks then compare that to DBoS followed by 5 LA weaved surprise attacks you'll see that the DoT applied provides more damage than the extra 20% via Incap. For me it Out-DPS Incap by 1.4k DPS, and this is with 81 into Master-at-Arms, and 0 into Thaurmaturge. In a non-CP environment, the DoT from Dawnbreaker would be even more powerful, and against a vampire or WW even more so.

A dummy parse is hardly a valid metric for evaluating pvp performance. What makes that 20% damage buff so damn strong is how it amps burst from skills like surprise attack, assassins will/scourge, and killers blade/impale in a PvP environment. These skills are already some of the hardest hitting ones in the game. Give em 20% on top and it pushes em into a pretty absurd place.

But it’s not any one thing that makes Incap op. It’s the fact that it has all of these things at such low cost on a class that gets 20 ultimate for using a potion. To think it once cost 50 lol.

Strider__Roshin

CyrusArya wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

It really isn't. Against a target dummy if you use Incap followed by 5 LA weaved surprise attacks then compare that to DBoS followed by 5 LA weaved surprise attacks you'll see that the DoT applied provides more damage than the extra 20% via Incap. For me it Out-DPS Incap by 1.4k DPS, and this is with 81 into Master-at-Arms, and 0 into Thaurmaturge. In a non-CP environment, the DoT from Dawnbreaker would be even more powerful, and against a vampire or WW even more so.

A dummy parse is hardly a valid metric for evaluating pvp performance. What makes that 20% damage buff so damn strong is how it amps burst from skills like surprise attack, assassins will/scourge, and killers blade/impale in a PvP environment. These skills are already some of the hardest hitting ones in the game. Give em 20% on top and it pushes em into a pretty absurd place.

But it’s not any one thing that makes Incap op. It’s the fact that it has all of these things at such low cost on a class that gets 20 ultimate for using a potion. To think it once cost 50 lol.

Correct, in a PvP environment your enemy doesn't just did there and take it which is another reason why that DoT out-does it because it sticks.

Here's the thing, any source of Major Defile + DBoS is better than Incap. The reason why people slot Incap is for an extra slot, and if it weren't for the fact that Argonians and Bosmers are immune to Major Defile via Disease glyph; I'd be running a Charged Bow with disease while using DBoS.

Incap is a fantastic ultimate but it's not an "I win" button as some claim.