Selling crowns for gold is a SCAM and RIPOFF!

Prof_Bawbag

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

Well, I am sure ZOS taken into account the fact that there are many bored kids with daddy's credit card, as well as 40yo men with little time to play. Both are happy to spend real money but have no time/will to farm in-game gold.

So essentially ZOS is legitimizing the purchase of in-game gold, hiding it as gifts. Just like those girls who offer to spend some time together but do expect some kind of help in exchange.

I am sure they think this will increase the pruchase of crowns.

They're not hiding anything. I think the biggest issue when it comes to devs and gold sellers is, the money goes to others whilst the devs get nothing. That's the real moral dilemma surrounding these things. This way, it's a win win for the devs. People will always sell anything if it's not nailed down and there will always be buyers, so I can see why this was put in as an attempt to get some of that cash for themselves.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

I actually like this...I wish they would let us buy ESO+ packs with crowns so we can trade and use those packs or sell em via guild store...much like Aion has/had...

Syncronaut

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

I actually like this...I wish they would let us buy ESO+ packs with crowns so we can trade and use those packs or sell em via guild store...much like Aion has/had...

Sub tokens are better idea.

Buy a sub token and get 1000 crowns or something when you use it. And it can be traded on market.
You can only buy limited (like 3 max every 30 days) for real money.

Also there would be a special vendor for it, so players are not forced to be in guild that has merchant to sell them.
When you purchase them off store, they cannot be re-sold.

This would keep people who hoard money to spend it on sub, and this gold will go in hands of other players.

The reason why there is a limit is to balance economy. As it strands right now, a rich person can just buy gold from others for crowns. And it gives this person a little to much power.

seipher09

S1ipperyJim wrote: »

Selling Crowns for Gold makes the game P2W.

It's tragic that people like the OP want to come on the official forums and whine about not receiving enough in game gold for your crowns.

?????? How does it make it p2w??

Nothing in this game is pay to win. You buy all your armor sets and dungeon sets and trial sets? You need to play the game no matter how rich you are.

Even so if another player did buy gear who cares? It's not pay to win as any one else can play to get it. Learn what p2w means please

kargen27

S1ipperyJim wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Not a survey but read any thread on the topic in these forums and it is really one sided towards this definition being correct and yours being wrong.

Not 'my definition'. Once again: The Urban Dictionary. I didn't write it. Don't have shares in them or anything. It's just the actual objective, general usage, accepted definition of P2W.

And once again, where are your statistics and figures on the 'one sided' opinions from all threads on the subject? You don't have any - you haven't actually tallied any up, have you? I know it sounds convincing and everything to just write a vague guess as a solid statement of fact but you should at least make some small effort to be factual.

Don't care what your definition is. Wasn't commenting on any definition outside this forum. I was commenting on what the attitudes of the majority of people who post in these forums think. I have read several threads on the subject since before the crown store went live and know in these forums the majority doesn't agree with the Urban Dictionary definition. I also know this forum probably isn't a true representation of the games player base so I was careful to use as my example attitudes in these forums. The crowns for gold is still relatively new though so attitudes may have shifted some?

Start a poll. Ask is selling crowns for gold P2W. Give us two choices. Yes or No with no other rhetoric added. Could be wrong but I think No will be the top answer.

And on an aside "urban" language by definition is fluid changing year to year and varies by locale. That is why most dictionaries do not include these words. P2W definition got 33 up votes. Not a real big consensus.

JiDul

I think a lot of it is, in game gold is not worth real life dollars based on how the market is. Going with an 80:1 ratio makes the seller feel cheated because there are people offering better ratios. But once people see that they can buy crowns for an 80:1 ratio they are going to which is why the market will go down because people will want to save as much gold as they can. Soon the ratio will go down to 30:1 then lower and lower because that is how the ESO market works. When an item is sold for a certain price people list it for less, people buy the one that's cheaper, then everyone starts listing it for that price, then a few people list it for cheaper to sell it quicker again and the price drops again. Tempers used to cost 10k a piece, then people decided to sell for cheaper which influenced the market, people bought it for 9k rather than 10k because they can save 1k per Temper, now Tempers sell for 6k. Clearly a lot of people didn't read my post, just responded with anger and the typical "If you don't like it don't do it" response without any real knowledge of the ESO market, welcome to online gaming/forums.

Sheezabeast

There is not a single thing in the crown store period that is P2W. Exchanging crown items for gold, therefore, is not pay 2 win.

Urvoth

Daus wrote: »

Because of the ability to gift crown store items I'm actually considering on buying the new Hircine home. I'm not foolish enough to waste my money on cosmetics, but I know there are people who are.

Are houses giftable?

Runs

Urvoth wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Because of the ability to gift crown store items I'm actually considering on buying the new Hircine home. I'm not foolish enough to waste my money on cosmetics, but I know there are people who are.

Are houses giftable?

No, neither are race/appearance/namechange tokens.

BlazingDynamo

You can't put a price on crowns because currency is worth more and less in different countries. For me being Canadian my crowns cost more than someone in the US so if you wanna buy crowns my price is going to be higher. I laugh at those trying to set a hard price on crowns in game lol bunch of losers

NickStern

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

lol bunch of losers

Maybe you are the loser for trying to charge more then they are worth.

sevomd69

Mayrael wrote: »

Crown gifts are straight P2W mechanic. I can easy use my cash to buy gold, services of players or whatever I want. With such approach in few year you will have crafting universal mats in crown store, 100% guaranteed drop vouchers, additional skill points, attributes etc. Mark my words.

Your words are marked...

Yolokin_Swagonborn

heaven13 wrote: »

But the question is...is a Crown Store item considered an in-game item (since it is found in-game) or a out-of-game since it's purchased with crowns ie real money? That seems to be where all the confusion is.

This is fun. Lets do a logic table. We have

• A: In game items (gear, gold, etc)
• B: Out of game items ( i.e real world $$$)
• C: Special in-game items that can be purchased with real money (Crowns) Meaning you take B (real money) and convert it into C (crown items)

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed.

Trading A for A is allowed.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

Trading A for B, or B for A is prohibited.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

A Crown Store item is considered an in-game item.

C = A

OK so here is where it gets fun:

Trading real money for in game items (B->A) is prohibited. But you can use real money and turn it into crown items, (B->C) then as Gina clarified, crowns count as ingame items so you can trade them for other ingame items (B->C->A).

• Real $$$ -> in game gold = prohibited
• Real $$$ -> crowns -> in game gold = fine.

Its the same thing. Gold selling. But its suddenly ok because crowns.

I wonder what other things are OK if crowns got involved? Cheat engine? Can I have my character names deemed offensive back if I pay more crowns?

Besides for gold selling, what other parts of the TOS would you like to bypass by using crowns.

Cpt_Teemo

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Uh.... if anything, being able to buy Crown items for gold makes the game LESS "pay 2 win". Because someone who didn't pay $, can get the things in the cash shop.

P2W is when the game has stuff that 1) you can ONLY get by dropping cash, which 2) gives you an otherwise-unobtainable advantage over non-$ players.


Open-world/Free-for-all/take your victim's gear PvP MMOs where you can get "insurance" against getting your stuff stolen, but only with $. Games where to be competitive you need your gear upgraded to "+15", but the only way to do that is with piles of $upgrade $consumables. Games where they just straight out sell stronger gear in the cash shop.

ESO is none of these things. And again, opening up crown items to be obtained by anyone for gold takes it further away from that.

98% of the stuff on the crown store you cannot obtain in game, it is many of those things

BlazingDynamo

NickStern wrote: »

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

lol bunch of losers

Maybe you are the loser for trying to charge more then they are worth.

I was speaking hypothetically, I don't sell crowns. But of course if you think 10 real world dollars is worth 100k in game gold you're more than a loser, perhaps a fool.

Cenom

Hey... I outbid this guy by 2x.

6k for 1m still cheap, lol. Some friends paid 2m just for the Tasaesc Motif.

Cêltic421

JiDul wrote: »

I think a lot of what this has to do with is people don't understand the value of real life money. People wanting to buy 6k crowns for 80:1 ratio? That's 480k for $47 of money I worked hard for. I can go out and farm 480k worth of materials in a few hours of sitting at my desk mindless drone farming. Where as me and a lot of other people had to work 4-5 real hard real life working hours of real labor just to earn that money to sell you crowns. Some people are total rip offs in these games and the fact that this is becoming the market for selling crowns makes me kind of sick. The ESO market is very expensive, things are sold in the thousands, meaning I could go and buy a Motif for 20k or a Ring of something for 40k some stuff goes for the hundred-thousands.. Its unfair that i'm supposed to give you 47 real dollars for an amount of gold that will get me 3 things before i'm broke in game again and have to go and spend 47 more dollars.. on 3 things that are in game and have no use to me outside of this game. Also the amount of people who have 100k in their bank vastly outnumbers the amount of people who own millions of gold. So the market for this is going to continue to drop because people are going to be unwilling to pay so much for crowns and the people who do have the gold to afford it will stop paying so much because the price dropped. Soon you will be seeing a ratio of 1:1 because of how this market works.

I'm not sure what you crying about. If you can "make 480k in a few hours of sitting at desk mindless drone farming" then you shouldn't be whining about selling your crowns for gold. If you don't like a deal then don't make the deal. The gifting option was to gift an item to a friend or family. It wasnt meant to sell crowns for gold. Your whole post is useless and waste of time. QQ

Cêltic421

S1ipperyJim wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

You have no idea what P2W is. There is no competitive advantage attatched to anything in the the Crown Store. Just saying that something is P2W doesn't make it so.

Friend, 'you don't know what P2W means' is the standard response from people like you whenever the term P2W is mentioned. Let me assure you, I have been playing games for over 30 years and I know EXACTLY what P2W means, both from first hand experience, observation, and familiarity with the actual origins and definitions of P2W. So don't come on her and patronise me that I don't know what P2W means, OK?

One definition will suffice:

"Pay To Win. When you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months)."
- Urban Dictionary

The crown store was supposedly only for items that were for 'cosmetic and convenience' purposes. Now that you can pay real cash for crowns to launder for gold you can now buy any item in the game available for trade, including items 99.9 percent of persons playing the game would never see, such as aetheric ciphers, as well as other valuable items like legendary upgrade items, rare BoE weapons, all of which have a real in game advantage over other players, whether through performance r XP gain, versus other players who have to grind months or years to get small quantities of these (also known as 'playing the game as intended') or may never get access to them at all. Never mind the flow on effect this has on other factors such as the regular market eg guild trading in game.

It is assuredly P2W.

Ask yourself this - would you be OK with ZOS putting everything in the game into a cash shop for sale for real money, such as specific BoE weapons sets, upgrade items, achievement skins, etc? I mean, they have already drifted a fair way down that path already. Because it happens over a long time and small increments people gradually get comfortable with it.

There is literally no material difference between buying gold for cash from gold traders and trading crowns for gold except ZOS makes all the profit.

Not pay to win. Gold is easy to come buy. There are many threads out there to make gold you just have to take the time to do it. I make 200k+ a day sometimes up to a mil depending what i have listed on traders, have an alt account just for selling. Now if someone wants to sell crowns for gold so what that doesn't make it p2w. Anybody in this game can obtain gold.

MisterBigglesworth

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

• C: Special in-game items that can be purchased with real money (Crowns) Meaning you take B (real money) and convert launder it into C (crown items)

FTFY

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

• Real $$$ -> in game gold = prohibited
• Real $$$ -> crowns -> in game gold = fine.

Its the same thing. Gold selling. But its suddenly ok because crowns.

If you are looking for some core, organizing principal that avoids silly accusations of "inconsistency" or "hypocrisy" it's basically this: Thou shalt not have any RMT that does not involve cash money flowing towards ZOS exclusively since, to be fair, you have no right to profit off someone else's work without their express written permission. So sayeth the lawyers.

DivineFirstYOLO

For me it's neither a scam nor P2W. It's a win/win for everybody..people that don't have time to farm gold in game have the chance to get some, people that don't want to spend real money on crowns can get some and obviously ZOS always wins. Fair game in my eyes.


btw..if anyone needs gold and wants to trade, hit me up (whisper/mail in game or on forums), I could need some crowns. (PC EU)

swippy

JiDul wrote: »

I think a lot of it is, in game gold is not worth real life dollars based on how the market is. Going with an 80:1 ratio makes the seller feel cheated because there are people offering better ratios. But once people see that they can buy crowns for an 80:1 ratio they are going to which is why the market will go down because people will want to save as much gold as they can. Soon the ratio will go down to 30:1 then lower and lower because that is how the ESO market works. When an item is sold for a certain price people list it for less, people buy the one that's cheaper, then everyone starts listing it for that price, then a few people list it for cheaper to sell it quicker again and the price drops again. Tempers used to cost 10k a piece, then people decided to sell for cheaper which influenced the market, people bought it for 9k rather than 10k because they can save 1k per Temper, now Tempers sell for 6k. Clearly a lot of people didn't read my post, just responded with anger and the typical "If you don't like it don't do it" response without any real knowledge of the ESO market, welcome to online gaming/forums.

i read your post. i'm very familiar with ESO's market, with other markets, and with freer markets. i didn't respond with anger, but i did say "if you don't like it don't do it" and i described the mis-estimations you presented, in 2 different ways. you're not automatically correct by saying "U MAD?" i even suggested you wait until the market changes if you want to find the edge that you were lamenting being unable to find, in anticipation of your new undercutting goalpost.

yeah, markets evolve, and this is a new one. if your complaint is that it hasn't stabilized yet, then just wait a little while.
that's a different complaint than the one you posted originally.

Strider__Roshin

Runs wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Because of the ability to gift crown store items I'm actually considering on buying the new Hircine home. I'm not foolish enough to waste my money on cosmetics, but I know there are people who are.

Are houses giftable?

No, neither are race/appearance/namechange tokens.

Guess I'm not getting that house then.

DemonDruaga

If I can't afford something I simply don't buy it.
Kept me safe in real life and games all together

Aeslief

Not the thread I was expecting based on the title...

JiDul wrote: »

I think a lot of it is, in game gold is not worth real life dollars based on how the market is. Going with an 80:1 ratio makes the seller feel cheated because there are people offering better ratios. But once people see that they can buy crowns for an 80:1 ratio they are going to which is why the market will go down because people will want to save as much gold as they can. Soon the ratio will go down to 30:1 then lower and lower because that is how the ESO market works. When an item is sold for a certain price people list it for less, people buy the one that's cheaper, then everyone starts listing it for that price, then a few people list it for cheaper to sell it quicker again and the price drops again. Tempers used to cost 10k a piece, then people decided to sell for cheaper which influenced the market, people bought it for 9k rather than 10k because they can save 1k per Temper, now Tempers sell for 6k. Clearly a lot of people didn't read my post, just responded with anger and the typical "If you don't like it don't do it" response without any real knowledge of the ESO market, welcome to online gaming/forums.

Rather than blaming players for taking advantage of the best deal they can find, how about getting mad at the sellers who valued the same cash assets you have lower than you did? If everyone had sold crowns at a 200:1 ratio or higher, no one would be asking for 80:1. However, if buyers didn’t feel that was good value, sales would be slow, perhaps too slow to suit some eager sellers who would then lower their prices to get more sales. When supply is larger than demand, sellers lower their prices to get an edge. The only reason buyers would look for an 80:1 ratio is because someone must have been willing to sell for that. If, as in your case, you felt the going rate was valuing crowns too low, you’d simply not offer your crowns at that price and consequently be less competitive. If the majority of crown sellers agreed with you, supply would dry up and prices would begin to increase. You’re angry about being out-competed by sellers willing to take lower prices to make more sales. Your $47 isn’t worth as much to them as it is to you.

None of which makes selling crowns for gold a SCAM or a RIPOFF.

fgulerneb18_ESO1

JiDul wrote: »

I think a lot of what this has to do with is people don't understand the value of real life money. People wanting to buy 6k crowns for 80:1 ratio? That's 480k for $47 of money I worked hard for. I can go out and farm 480k worth of materials in a few hours of sitting at my desk mindless drone farming. Where as me and a lot of other people had to work 4-5 real hard real life working hours of real labor just to earn that money to sell you crowns. Some people are total rip offs in these games and the fact that this is becoming the market for selling crowns makes me kind of sick. The ESO market is very expensive, things are sold in the thousands, meaning I could go and buy a Motif for 20k or a Ring of something for 40k some stuff goes for the hundred-thousands.. Its unfair that i'm supposed to give you 47 real dollars for an amount of gold that will get me 3 things before i'm broke in game again and have to go and spend 47 more dollars.. on 3 things that are in game and have no use to me outside of this game. Also the amount of people who have 100k in their bank vastly outnumbers the amount of people who own millions of gold. So the market for this is going to continue to drop because people are going to be unwilling to pay so much for crowns and the people who do have the gold to afford it will stop paying so much because the price dropped. Soon you will be seeing a ratio of 1:1 because of how this market works.

get out of forum please. we don't want a poor player

Runs

Daus wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Because of the ability to gift crown store items I'm actually considering on buying the new Hircine home. I'm not foolish enough to waste my money on cosmetics, but I know there are people who are.

Are houses giftable?

No, neither are race/appearance/namechange tokens.

Guess I'm not getting that house then.

If you find someone willing, you could always try having them open a ticket. Perhaps it's something a customer service rep would be willing to do manually.

rexagamemnon

JiDul wrote: »

I think a lot of what this has to do with is people don't understand the value of real life money. People wanting to buy 6k crowns for 80:1 ratio? That's 480k for $47 of money I worked hard for. I can go out and farm 480k worth of materials in a few hours of sitting at my desk mindless drone farming. Where as me and a lot of other people had to work 4-5 real hard real life working hours of real labor just to earn that money to sell you crowns. Some people are total rip offs in these games and the fact that this is becoming the market for selling crowns makes me kind of sick. The ESO market is very expensive, things are sold in the thousands, meaning I could go and buy a Motif for 20k or a Ring of something for 40k some stuff goes for the hundred-thousands.. Its unfair that i'm supposed to give you 47 real dollars for an amount of gold that will get me 3 things before i'm broke in game again and have to go and spend 47 more dollars.. on 3 things that are in game and have no use to me outside of this game. Also the amount of people who have 100k in their bank vastly outnumbers the amount of people who own millions of gold. So the market for this is going to continue to drop because people are going to be unwilling to pay so much for crowns and the people who do have the gold to afford it will stop paying so much because the price dropped. Soon you will be seeing a ratio of 1:1 because of how this market works.

Where are you farming 480k Gold in a couple hours!!!!!????

Bodži

Is your budget allowing you to buy xyz crowns and exchange it for gold at any rate? If yes, then do it, I certainly wont be the one to judge you.
Nobody forces you to trade crowns for gold at certain rate. Nobody forces you to buy anything for a certain price. Go get it yourself if you don't want to pay either with crowns or gold.
In the end, its your money, you can dictate your price. Or decide not to spend it

On side note, is ESO P2W? I can spin this around:

Pay to play -> play to win = pay to win so yes eso is p2w.

Merlin13KAGL

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

S1ipperyJim wrote: »

Selling Crowns for Gold makes the game P2W.

It's tragic that people like the OP want to come on the official forums and whine about not receiving enough in game gold for your crowns.

Can you elaborate on how cosmetics are P2W?

@ZarkingFrued , ironically, he's saying that the one selling the Crowns is Paying2Win...

Take a minute to wrap your head around that one.

(Purchased gear, purchased mats, hell, even purchased carries are not going to magically make you awesome at this game.)

smh

Yigrok

Hmm, how about people stop complaining and maybe not buy crowns from strangers ( or sell to)?
It's easy as that. Why would you risk yourself doing that when there is no sure system designed for RMT?

I wrote in some post that if you want this to work, and for Z0$ to make even more money, they need to design an in-game exchange system where prices are controlled by players demand.

Simply have 1 tab in the crown store for Currency exchange, 1 tab for Crowns to Gold, 2nd tab for Gold to Crowns.

Only then you will be sure that you won't get scammed.