50k Werewolf Light Attack Build

Inarre

I hope this goes live. I'm excited to see full pug werewolf raids cheesing the hardest content.

Edit: Lets put our tanks in galenwe too.

Avran_Sylt

Ertthewolf wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Ertthewolf wrote: »

From this it looks like sets need adjustments vs nerfing werewolf. You wouldn't see those numbers without that specific combo.

@Ertthewolf

Comparing Blood Moon vs Automaton on a full LA parse, the difference was about 9% (42K vs. 38K). If the same holds true for @Masel92 , they'd be around 45K without using Blood Moon. Blood Moon is situational, relies on crit-chance, and can falloff, so I'm of the opinion that on a stationary Test dummy, this difference is okay.

A ~45K parse however, isn't, given the ease of rotation. Meaning WW will likely see some LA,Bleed, and Wolf Buddy reduction.

Given that regular parses are around 40K for non StamNB classes (that use relequen), I can see (Automaton build) being reduced to 35-40K without much issue. Blood Moon build being reduced to the range of 39K-44K.

After that, time will tell if the rotation is too easy for it to reach those numbers. And solutions will need to be thought up to rectify this.

@Avran_Sylt

Werewolves didn't receive any dps increase this patch. It's actually a decrease with Hircines Rage having the weapon damage buff removed. So we would have been able to have Automaton before this, thus capable of these dps numbers before pts.

So is it just simply the patch allowing for werewolf players pushing for more testing we otherwise never tried?

@Ertthewolf

Yeah basically. WW has always been a great bruiser (sans the first PTS of Summerset). The only downside previously was that it was fairly unsustainable for a solo player in group content, because of the general requirement of taking damage, and the Ult-cost required once out of Wolf-form (netting a damage loss compared to regular builds since you effectively had no ult while in and out of WW form in addition to a few GCDs spent stunned from transforming).

It really only shone in burst scenarios, and scenarios where you constantly take damage. IE PvP

Get a group of 4 people in a home on live, have them all transform and attack different targets (probably have to be the 3mil bc time constraints), and you'll likely have similar results as this PTS (sans buff from Blood Moon).

usmcjdking

Perfectly balanced.

WW has pathetic AOE damage in WW so high ST for a 300 cost ultimate was required to pull the class back into PVE. I fail to see any issue with this. Add a second dummy and just about any build should be able to outparse it.

Avran_Sylt

usmcjdking wrote: »

Perfectly balanced.

WW has pathetic AOE damage in WW so high ST for a 300 cost ultimate was required to pull the class back into PVE. I fail to see any issue with this. Add a second dummy and just about any build should be able to outparse it.

I would agree with you, if the WW rotation was difficult in any manner. But it isn't. So the maximum ST DPS should be lowered a little bit.

In terms of trials, this means that the synergies for WW should be looked at and improved, such that the synergies provide similar DPS but buffing your companions. (So they're still min-maxed trials viable)

usmcjdking

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Perfectly balanced.

WW has pathetic AOE damage in WW so high ST for a 300 cost ultimate was required to pull the class back into PVE. I fail to see any issue with this. Add a second dummy and just about any build should be able to outparse it.

I would agree with you, if the WW rotation was difficult in any manner. But it isn't. So the maximum ST DPS should be lowered a little bit.

In terms of trials, this means that the synergies for WW should be looked at and improved, such that the synergies provide similar DPS but buffing your companions. (So they're still min-maxed trials viable)

I don't think this is a WW issue as much as it's a Blood Moon issue. I definitely understand your concern, though.

MLGProPlayer

Werewolf LA build outparses fully optimized magden build by 3-5k.

Avran_Sylt

usmcjdking wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Perfectly balanced.

WW has pathetic AOE damage in WW so high ST for a 300 cost ultimate was required to pull the class back into PVE. I fail to see any issue with this. Add a second dummy and just about any build should be able to outparse it.

I would agree with you, if the WW rotation was difficult in any manner. But it isn't. So the maximum ST DPS should be lowered a little bit.

In terms of trials, this means that the synergies for WW should be looked at and improved, such that the synergies provide similar DPS but buffing your companions. (So they're still min-maxed trials viable)

I don't think this is a WW issue as much as it's a Blood Moon issue. I definitely understand your concern, though.

Fair, I suppose more testing is needed.

Wuuffyy

I love these changes please don’t get them nerfed. Think
Situational and healing scenarios or something

sneakymitchell

Waffennacht wrote: »

Awesome, please don't nerf

We need more builds like this and hybrids need some buffs still. They are slightly behind DPS par wise.

Mystrius_Archaion

zyk wrote: »

This is idiotic. Truly. Why have the combat depth this game has for it to be reduced to this?

Because it will always be reduced to the simplest and easiest by the players.
It's inevitable.


Edit:
Also fYI, this game just has fake depth like any other game. All abilities have the same base stat variables with the only true difference being visuals or completely unique mechanics like invisibility and pets, which even pets are the same as any other pet at the base level.
All abilities can be condensed down to (damage or healing number)/(time).
You think this game has depth when it is hard for any game to have combat depth. The whole equation is a simple "kill it before it kills me".

IAVITNI

What's the issue? Looks balanced to me.

Mystrius_Archaion

Skander wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

As expected, even a bit higher thanks to Blood Moon.

would be curious to see if Selene can compete with Kena in this configuration.

As much as a love werewolf, the idea of having 4-6 players with identical visuals, animations, rotation, sounds, etc.. in a raid group does not appeal to me at all ...

Well, the testing is going to be fun at least

Prepare this werewolf patch to be neutralized and fixed the next one

"Prepare this werewolf to be neutered!"

Fixed him for you.

Jake1576

What i hate is reading all the comments about people who test this stuff out for us console players on pts and are complaining about ww is to strong now stfu and dont ruin it for us console players bad enough we don't get a say in what they put on live servers for us we don't need you all *** it up

ll_Rev

Noice

Toc de Malsvi

Jake1576 wrote: »

What i hate is reading all the comments about people who test this stuff out for us console players on pts and are complaining about ww is to strong now stfu and dont ruin it for us console players bad enough we don't get a say in what they put on live servers for us we don't need you all *** it up

Be like me and take part in the PTS on PC. Then you can test and give feedback. I play on console, I play the PTS on PC.

Wuuffyy

Dude every other class can put certain *** on and pull the same numbers. What’s the problem here?

ccfeeling

WW has only 1 bar skills , front bar enhancement , Take 25% more damage from Poison Attacks while in werewolf form , 4x k dps OP ?

Thorstienn

@Masel92
Did you do a "same" test, without blood moon?
I just had a small bit of time to test, and I found blood moon adds like 10k DPS to at least Automaton in a pure LA rotation.
Would like to see more before people start putting this kind of thing out there, unless you are trying to show that the set, not WW, is broken in this situation.

Edit: spelling

Masel

Thorstienn wrote: »

@Masel92
Did you do a "same" test, without blood moon?
I just had a small bit of time to test, and I found blood moon adds like 10k DPS to at least Automaton in a pure LA rotation.
Would like to see more before people start putting this kind of thing out there, unless you are trying to show that the set, not WW, is broken in this situation.

Edit: spelling

All of it is contextual. You can't stay in WW form 100% of the time, so it is probably only for bossfights in trials... in dungeons you have lots of corpses so there you can technically sustaiin it infinetely if you don't pause.

I don't want to show that anything is OP there. Relequen isnt feasible in many scenarios, so you'd often want to wear something different anyway. I used different setups and this is by far the strongest in a pure single target scenario. I am myself not a big fan of dummy setups, but it is what the community often responds to, without putting it into the right context.

I actually like that this might be a viable PvE-playstyle now. In the newer trials where it is a pure bossfight with stacking mechanics, this setup will probably not work as good anyways.

Nefaras

A little nerf on the new set + the wolfs from the Ultimate itself and its all good here.

Dont know the game already is "setscarryonline" and the rotations (most of them, not all) are rather easy.

Masel

Nefaras wrote: »

A little nerf on the new set + the wolfs from the Ultimate itself and its all good here.

Dont know the game already is "setscarryonline" and the rotations (most of them, not all) are rather easy.

I also tested the other morph, and it gives a little more single target dps than the pack leader one...

mocap

one button 20k dps with ZERO sustain... Freaking hilarious.

WeylandLabs

@Masel92 Hello

I'm interested in your post of 50k Werewolf light attack build ? Seems like you also are fighting a test dummy there.

What part deeply concerns you about fighting a test dummies ? ( Its ok - they do not hit back )

You also state that it is going to be (Quote) "Insane" becuase you don't use a lot of skills. Pressing multiple buttons in a sequential order doesn't hurt your fingers ? But spamming light attacks does hurt multiple fingers, if I understand your verbiage correctly. At the same time you state "you could have hit 50k easily," if you had another buff ? A bit confusing on the fact that would have caused more strain on another finger.

To be honest I'm worried about you possibly having Carpal tunnel or Arthritis and your ability to game. Nobody is discriminating on your age or gender or disability, I was just in fear at why this build hurt you.

And if it is not hurting you are you concerned about other players fingers ?

I would recommend its in good interest that maybe you shouldn't play this build.

Also just to help you a lil bit, the title should say 50k dps test. We appreciate all you're hard work on that video, thank you very much.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

A top DPS parse that includes a set that only drops in a new DLC. Yeah that wasnt intended.

What werewolves DO NOT want
To become overpowered. They realize they teeter on the line.

What ZOS wants: To force players to buy the new thing to chase the meta.

I wonder who will win? ZOS or werewolves.

Mr_Wolfe

Something to keep in mind is that any WW rotation is going to seem simple by comparison because we only have five skills and one bar.

I do wonder how these parses would look with a full werewolf rotation though. All three sets are dependent on light attacks to proc, so by only doing light attacks you may be getting better uptime than you would with a traditional rotation.

In any event, werewolves finally getting some competitive dps isn't the end of the world--especially when you need three dlc sets to pull it off.

Feanor

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Awesome, please don't nerf

We need more builds like this and hybrids need some buffs still. They are slightly behind DPS par wise.

We need more builds that pull 50k+ ST without raid buffs just with light attacking? Ah. And I thought the game was already easy enough.

Qbiken

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Perfectly balanced.

WW has pathetic AOE damage in WW so high ST for a 300 cost ultimate was required to pull the class back into PVE. I fail to see any issue with this. Add a second dummy and just about any build should be able to outparse it.

I would agree with you, if the WW rotation was difficult in any manner. But it isn't. So the maximum ST DPS should be lowered a little bit.

In terms of trials, this means that the synergies for WW should be looked at and improved, such that the synergies provide similar DPS but buffing your companions. (So they're still min-maxed trials viable)

Justifying low DPS by how "difficult" a rotation isn´t a good baseline for balance in my opinion. By those standards stamDK´s should have the lowest DPS in the game (basically heavy attack between each skill), but that´s not the case.

As I see it, werewolfs might have a place during specific boss-fights where mechanics aren´t too challenging. The boss fights in the Craglorn trials are perfect examples of a trials that werewolfs would fit in quite well. However in trials like vHoF, vAS, vCR and vMoL I would be surprised to see these numbers aside from the few "top tier" raiding guilds.

I´d rather see Relequeen and Bloodmoon being looked at first and maybe tweaked before starting to mess with the werewolf too much. Even Alcast wrote somewhere (think it was on the comment-section of his youtube video where he tested the same setup) that these parses are carried by the sets. And I´ve to agree with him on that.

SilverWF

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

A top DPS parse that includes a set that only drops in a new DLC. Yeah that wasnt intended.

What werewolves DO NOT want
To become overpowered. They realize they teeter on the line.

What ZOS wants: To force players to buy the new thing to chase the meta.

I wonder who will win? ZOS or werewolves.

Casino always wins

Kadoozy

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

A top DPS parse that includes a set that only drops in a new DLC. Yeah that wasnt intended.

What werewolves DO NOT want
To become overpowered. They realize they teeter on the line.

What ZOS wants: To force players to buy the new thing to chase the meta.

I wonder who will win? ZOS or werewolves.

I mean, let's be honest, ZOS is almost definitely going to nerf werewolves into the ground now. Either they will make it way too difficult to sustain the form (I hope this isn't the case) or they are going to severely nerf the damage they do.

I get nobody wants a light attack only werewolf meta, but all this complaining is probably going to kill werewolves before they ever become viable.

ZOS always makes heavy handed nerfs. Rarely is there ever moderation.

akl77

Honestly, if the game is going to turn to light attack spam, I’ve no interest to play, it’s plain stupid.