50k Werewolf Light Attack Build

Aznox

AuldWolf wrote: »

This isn't going to end well...

I feel so, so bad for werewolf players who're going to try and stick it out. What they should've done is just made werewolf a toggle with respectable DPS. Like everyone has been saying since the start. Now werewolf can be perma-maintained but only because it can pull 50k DPS, which is going to get nerfed into the ground.

I feel really, really, really super bad for werewolf fans. I've learned my lesson but I think some are going to be inspired by this, only to get the rug torn out from under them later.

Well from the start i have been saying 3 things :
1) Making it a toggle will lead to absurd things in PvP
2) Giving perma-wolf in PvE will lead to absurd things.
3) Changing the magicka scaling heal will lead to absurd things.

They went on with 2) and 3) and now i'll be enjoying the fireworks.

Qbiken

Aznox wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

This isn't going to end well...

I feel so, so bad for werewolf players who're going to try and stick it out. What they should've done is just made werewolf a toggle with respectable DPS. Like everyone has been saying since the start. Now werewolf can be perma-maintained but only because it can pull 50k DPS, which is going to get nerfed into the ground.

I feel really, really, really super bad for werewolf fans. I've learned my lesson but I think some are going to be inspired by this, only to get the rug torn out from under them later.

Well from the start i have been saying 3 things :
1) Making it a toggle will lead to absurd things in PvP
2) Giving perma-wolf in PvE will lead to absurd things.
3) Changing the magicka scaling heal will lead to absurd things.

They went on with 2) and 3) and now i'll be enjoying the fireworks.

And this is the reason some of us didn´t want big changes. Will be interesting to see how things turns out.

BohnT

Aznox wrote: »

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

After checking that Combat Metrics, it seems could easily hit 42k with this build using NOTHING BUT light attacks. XD

Wait till you add other Werewolves to the group :

Howl of Despair (morph): The synergy now grants the ally Empower for all Light Attacks for 5 seconds. Previously, it granted 10% more Light and Heavy Attack damage for 15 seconds.

Depending on the situation it might not be that big of an increase compared to the old passive.

10% extra damage with 75% uptime.
Vs
40% extra damage with 25% uptime (50% if we get a Bloodmoon proc)

Chrlynsch

Masel92 wrote: »

Werewolf Raids incoming!


2 Molag Kena, 5 Blood Moon and 5 Perfect Relequen with Dual Wield. I prebuffed a bit, but in raids this is gonna be insane. Not even taking into account that the Werewolf cost is reduced for every Werewolf in your raid. You don't even use a lot of skills, but the light attack spam made my fingers hurt so i had to stop after a while.

The major fracture provided by deafening roar currently isnt working, otherwise i'd have 50k easily by myself, this way i have to get it from someone else.

Video:

https://youtu.be/A55qMeaLKZo

Parse :

Imagine a feeding frenzy proc on top of this

Aznox

BohnT wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

After checking that Combat Metrics, it seems could easily hit 42k with this build using NOTHING BUT light attacks. XD

Wait till you add other Werewolves to the group :

Howl of Despair (morph): The synergy now grants the ally Empower for all Light Attacks for 5 seconds. Previously, it granted 10% more Light and Heavy Attack damage for 15 seconds.

Depending on the situation it might not be that big of an increase compared to the old passive.

10% extra damage with 75% uptime.
Vs
40% extra damage with 25% uptime (50% if we get a Bloodmoon proc)

I may be wrong but a werewolf could not even use the previous synergy.

True about the 25% uptime though, forgot about the 20sec cooldown per synergy.

Still a potential 10% DPS boost to LA

Skander

Aznox wrote: »

As expected, even a bit higher thanks to Blood Moon.

would be curious to see if Selene can compete with Kena in this configuration.

As much as a love werewolf, the idea of having 4-6 players with identical visuals, animations, rotation, sounds, etc.. in a raid group does not appeal to me at all ...

Well, the testing is going to be fun at least

Prepare this werewolf patch to be neutralized and fixed the next one

Chrlynsch

Aznox wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

After checking that Combat Metrics, it seems could easily hit 42k with this build using NOTHING BUT light attacks. XD

Wait till you add other Werewolves to the group :

Howl of Despair (morph): The synergy now grants the ally Empower for all Light Attacks for 5 seconds. Previously, it granted 10% more Light and Heavy Attack damage for 15 seconds.

Depending on the situation it might not be that big of an increase compared to the old passive.

10% extra damage with 75% uptime.
Vs
40% extra damage with 25% uptime (50% if we get a Bloodmoon proc)

I may be wrong but a werewolf could not even use the previous synergy.

True about the 25% uptime though, forgot about the 20sec cooldown per synergy.

Still a potential 10% DPS boost to LA

They could use it, was one of the synergies they could use. Didn't act like a true synergy to set off passives an sets.

BohnT

Aznox wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

After checking that Combat Metrics, it seems could easily hit 42k with this build using NOTHING BUT light attacks. XD

Wait till you add other Werewolves to the group :

Howl of Despair (morph): The synergy now grants the ally Empower for all Light Attacks for 5 seconds. Previously, it granted 10% more Light and Heavy Attack damage for 15 seconds.

Depending on the situation it might not be that big of an increase compared to the old passive.

10% extra damage with 75% uptime.
Vs
40% extra damage with 25% uptime (50% if we get a Bloodmoon proc)

I may be wrong but a werewolf could not even use the previous synergy.

True about the 25% uptime though, forgot about the 20sec cooldown per synergy.

Still a potential 10% DPS boost to LA

yes the increase will be noticeable can't wait for vTrials with WW DDs only

Avran_Sylt

Well, time to think about ways in which the Damage could be reduced and/or passed onto different skills or synergies.

I like the changes as a whole, but it overshot the mark by a little bit, time to reel it back in.

Perhaps consider the WW timer to be its "Resource", and increase the drain, but add more ways (ability specific) to keep it going longer.

Such as: (Rework BloodRage) Damaging an enemy with a WW ability adds 2s to your WW timer (5 sec. cooldown). Heavy attacks add 1s to you WW timer for each enemy hit. Hircine's Fortitude adds 2s to your WW timer when used.

Call of the Pack: instead of increasing the time decay in WW form, have it instead reduce the Ultimate Cost of Werewolf Transformation for each WW (transformed or untransformed) in your party, allowing a better base for the timer to work with.

Kuramas9tails

And I thought the bashing build was ridiculous. lol.

Aznox

Could experimented vTrial players bring some context to us PvP-only players ?

If Werewolf was to stabilize at 55k on this parse once optimized, what would it mean in the current meta ?

Could we list all the drawbacks that may put this raw number in perspective ?

ajaxtheboss

I think from a pve perspective, it's not totally broken.

Stam Nightblades are hitting 50-55 solo already, stam sorc at 48k.

What will be interesting is the empower synergy with 2 or more WW

Dracane

BohnT wrote: »

Werewolves
What werewolves DO NOT want
To become overpowered. They realize they teeter on the line.
To get the best dps or to become meta, or even to get directly competitive dps. They don’t want a werewolf in every group. Werewolves like feeling special and needing to exert greater effort to achieve the same or even just shy of the same results in PvE.

Zos exactly understand what the WW community wanted

I too want to be unique and special Most people do.
But the reality is, nothing that is strong and easy to use, will ever be special in an MMO. Everyone will use it.
I remember when I was the only pet Sorcerer on the server for a long time, until pets became too easy and manageable. It's the perfect example. And this Werewolf thing here, is way too effective for how easy it is.

The line between being a special snowflake or turning into a mainstreamer is very thin.

Froil

I tested something like this yesterday.

I was an Orc stamden (I couldn't remember what class was the best), wearing Velidreth (didn't really know what Monster set) and Blood Moon and Perfect Relequen w/ 2h axe instead of DW (again, didn't really know what to use). Though I suck, I only got like 27k DPS.

BohnT

Dracane wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Werewolves
What werewolves DO NOT want
To become overpowered. They realize they teeter on the line.
To get the best dps or to become meta, or even to get directly competitive dps. They don’t want a werewolf in every group. Werewolves like feeling special and needing to exert greater effort to achieve the same or even just shy of the same results in PvE.

Zos exactly understand what the WW community wanted

I too want to be unique and special Most people do.
But the reality is, nothing that is strong and easy to use, will ever be special in an MMO. Everyone will use it.
I remember when I was the only pet Sorcerer on the server for a long time, until pets became too easy and manageable. It's the perfect example.

The line between being a special snowflake or turning into a mainstreamer is very thin.

Those aren't my words. Those are the words from Gina after the ESO Rep meeting.

I never played WW i don't have a strong opinion on that unless it gets ridiculous (either bad or op)
But i won't miss a chance calling out these supreme "ignoring what is said last week tactics"

Dracane

BohnT wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Werewolves
What werewolves DO NOT want
To become overpowered. They realize they teeter on the line.
To get the best dps or to become meta, or even to get directly competitive dps. They don’t want a werewolf in every group. Werewolves like feeling special and needing to exert greater effort to achieve the same or even just shy of the same results in PvE.

Zos exactly understand what the WW community wanted

I too want to be unique and special Most people do.
But the reality is, nothing that is strong and easy to use, will ever be special in an MMO. Everyone will use it.
I remember when I was the only pet Sorcerer on the server for a long time, until pets became too easy and manageable. It's the perfect example.

The line between being a special snowflake or turning into a mainstreamer is very thin.

Those aren't my words. Those are the words from Gina after the ESO Rep meeting.

I never played WW i don't have a strong opinion on that unless it gets ridiculous (either bad or op)
But i won't miss a chance calling out these supreme "ignoring what is said last week tactics"

It's fine. Your post merely gave a good base to voice my opinion.

VoiDGhOs7

This is the parse of a friend with almost full trial setup:

Masel

VoiDGhOs7 wrote: »

This is the parse of a friend with almost full trial setup:

I figured that it's gonna be in that range...

Waffennacht

Awesome, please don't nerf

Ertthewolf

From this it looks like sets need adjustments vs nerfing werewolf. You wouldn't see those numbers without that specific combo.

Mojmir

Cool video.now they'll nerf it before it hits live lol

Aznox

They probably tuned that Blood Moon specifically to make Werewolf viable in PVE DPS, does anyone see another use for this set ?

Dracane

6k dps from a werewolf pet I wonder who the summoner masterclass truly is.

Avran_Sylt

Ertthewolf wrote: »

From this it looks like sets need adjustments vs nerfing werewolf. You wouldn't see those numbers without that specific combo.

@Ertthewolf

Comparing Blood Moon vs Automaton on a full LA parse, the difference was about 9% (42K vs. 38K). If the same holds true for @Masel92 , they'd be around 45K without using Blood Moon. Blood Moon is situational, relies on crit-chance, and can falloff, so I'm of the opinion that on a stationary Test dummy, this difference is okay.

A ~45K parse however, isn't, given the ease of rotation. Meaning WW will likely see some LA,Bleed, and Wolf Buddy reduction.

Given that regular parses are around 40K for non StamNB classes (that use relequen), I can see (Automaton build) being reduced to 35-40K without much issue. Blood Moon build being reduced to the range of 39K-44K.

After that, time will tell if the rotation is too easy for it to reach those numbers. And solutions will need to be thought up to rectify this.

SirDopey

Where was your minor force coming from? Did you do a channeled acceleration before starting?

Personally I think there's a bit of hyperbole going on with some of the comments in here. A. Masel is a master of cheesing dummys - know plenty of really good players that have copied his builds 1/1 and are always a few k off his numbers.

b) clearly those parses have maximum cheese applied with all the self buffing plus having someone else apply major fracture.

c)we have NB's posting 65+k parses self buffed, no one else helping with debuffs

So all in all, is the sky really falling? Will all other DPS become obsolete? Will WW become META? I don't think so for any of those. Yes of course there will be an influx of WW players next patch but even if they nerfed the shiz out of WW instead of buffing it that would happen due to the attention being thrown on them by 2 WW themed dungeons.

JackDaniell

Finally a build I can do trials on!

Juhasow

When floor touches the ceiling...

Ertthewolf

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Ertthewolf wrote: »

From this it looks like sets need adjustments vs nerfing werewolf. You wouldn't see those numbers without that specific combo.

@Ertthewolf

Comparing Blood Moon vs Automaton on a full LA parse, the difference was about 9% (42K vs. 38K). If the same holds true for @Masel92 , they'd be around 45K without using Blood Moon. Blood Moon is situational, relies on crit-chance, and can falloff, so I'm of the opinion that on a stationary Test dummy, this difference is okay.

A ~45K parse however, isn't, given the ease of rotation. Meaning WW will likely see some LA,Bleed, and Wolf Buddy reduction.

Given that regular parses are around 40K for non StamNB classes (that use relequen), I can see (Automaton build) being reduced to 35-40K without much issue. Blood Moon build being reduced to the range of 39K-44K.

After that, time will tell if the rotation is too easy for it to reach those numbers. And solutions will need to be thought up to rectify this.

@Avran_Sylt

Werewolves didn't receive any dps increase this patch. It's actually a decrease with Hircines Rage having the weapon damage buff removed. So we would have been able to have Automaton before this, thus capable of these dps numbers before pts.

So is it just simply the patch allowing for werewolf players pushing for more testing we otherwise never tried?

LiquidPony

Aznox wrote: »

They probably tuned that Blood Moon specifically to make Werewolf viable in PVE DPS, does anyone see another use for this set ?

I've been testing Blood Moon on a standard stamsorc build.

It compares favorably to other Stam sets. I've hit north of 42k solo, which is comparable to Ravager/Briarheart/Automaton/Advancing (combined with Relequen and Stormfist). Still get the best results with Kvatch though. And I was using Kena, which cranks up the damage but is super punishing if you slip up and accidentally hit two LAs in a row.

It's a bit of a pain to manage the proc, though, and since it doesn't outperform other setups I doubt it'll get much use on non-WW builds.

I only spent about an hour fiddling with it. Wouldn't be surprised to see 44k, maybe more, with a better-tuned Blood Moon setup, which should translate to well over 50k with fracture. Might be viable but needs more testing.

Ertthewolf

SirDopey wrote: »

Where was your minor force coming from? Did you do a channeled acceleration before starting?

Personally I think there's a bit of hyperbole going on with some of the comments in here. A. Masel is a master of cheesing dummys - know plenty of really good players that have copied his builds 1/1 and are always a few k off his numbers.

b) clearly those parses have maximum cheese applied with all the self buffing plus having someone else apply major fracture.

c)we have NB's posting 65+k parses self buffed, no one else helping with debuffs

So all in all, is the sky really falling? Will all other DPS become obsolete? Will WW become META? I don't think so for any of those. Yes of course there will be an influx of WW players next patch but even if they nerfed the shiz out of WW instead of buffing it that would happen due to the attention being thrown on them by 2 WW themed dungeons.

I agree. Plus, these LA builds would be very ineffective if aoe is needed. You wouldn't want a whole ww trial.