ZOS is updating Crown Store WAY FASTER than updating the game itself.

Imhotep71

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Grunge wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Grunge wrote: »

Apples and oranges. Update the shop is waaaaaay easier than updating the game.

But then you realized those apples and oranges are from the same grocery. The shop is filled with apples, and barely any oranges, but customers all love orange juice. And when the new oranges do arrive, they're mostly bad.

As expected, nothing new here.
You can't compare this things dude. Its the same as saying:

"Ohhhh, your car shop takes sooooo long to fix cars, but your stamps shop is always up to date to sell new stamps! This is an absurd!"

Come on, not even hard to see or understand that....

PS: Never saw a bad upgrade in ESO, its just your opinion.

The car shop has nothing to do with the stamp shop. But the crown store team and balancing team is in the same company, and working on the same game. Your point is totally invalid.

The service dept and the sales dept are both in the same dealership. Essentially you are bitching about the sales dept not fixing your car fast enough.

2 different teams that have nothing to do with each other. All in game stores put out items faster than the game develops content, its just an easier task to manage.

DaveMoeDee

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Grunge wrote: »

Apples and oranges. Update the shop is waaaaaay easier than updating the game.

But then you realized those apples and oranges are from the same grocery. The shop is filled with apples, and barely any oranges, but customers all love orange juice. And when the new oranges do arrive, they're mostly bad.

Oh boy...

DaveMoeDee

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Thank EA for the crown store to begin with, the lead operator for Cartel Market quit EA for Zo$

When did EA invent in-game cash shops?

I know it is popular to bash on EA, but could you explain how they started it so I don't mistakenly think people are caught up in hype?

Cpt_Teemo

Totally agree.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Thank EA for the crown store to begin with, the lead operator for Cartel Market quit EA for Zo$

When did EA invent in-game cash shops?

They didn't invent it, was saying that the Cartel market was responsible for the creation of the Crown store

idk

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Thank EA for the crown store to begin with, the lead operator for Cartel Market quit EA for Zo$

When did EA invent in-game cash shops?

They didn't invent it, was saying that the Cartel market was responsible for the creation of the Crown store

SWTOR did not invent the cash shop. Not even close to being one of the early adopters of the cash shop. That started in F2P games long before SWTOR was ever released.

Cpt_Teemo

Totally agree.

idk wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Thank EA for the crown store to begin with, the lead operator for Cartel Market quit EA for Zo$

When did EA invent in-game cash shops?

They didn't invent it, was saying that the Cartel market was responsible for the creation of the Crown store

SWTOR did not invent the cash shop. Not even close to being one of the early adopters of the cash shop. That started in F2P games long before SWTOR was ever released.

Yeah was trying to say that the Crown store is the exact duplicate of the Cartel Market same prices, content, except Zo$ was smart to make them BoP to begin with

duendology

Totally agree.

I agree with the OP.
But I also agree with the people here who say that updating the game itself is not the same as adding new items to the crown store. but what do I know, right?

Anyway, having said that, due to recent chronic problems with logging in to the game via steam and how long it takes to fix anything...I decided not to spend more crowns on cosmetics and *** anymore (which I did from time to time).

Also, I have been playing for almost 2 years now.. and it's ridiculous that everything in the store is pretty much usually the same stuff just reskinned or recolored.

Rawkan

Where's the "totally disagree" option?

idk

Rawkan wrote: »

Where's the "totally disagree" option?

OP claimed the tool for building the tool conveniently did not include that and another response. LOL

Elsonso

red_emu wrote: »

TL:DR

I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure that they have different teams responsible for cosmetics and game balance / performance.

They do, but the real issue is not that different teams work on different things, but that the different teams work on stuff that is different in complexity, and the way the Studio staffs workers can easily be tilted towards the ART department.

For example, a 5-person combat team might be able to crank out a balance update every 3 months. That is complex enough that adding people to this task might not increase how often a balance update is released. 10 people will not cut the time in half. This is the same as: "If it takes one mother 9 months to make a baby, then nine mothers can make a baby in 1 month".

Meanwhile, the Art team might be able to crank out store content in a couple of weeks, and adding resources to this pool does increase the frequency that store content can be delivered. Compared to one artist, 10 artists can release more stuff in the same amount of time. This is the classic "a single lane highway vs a multi-lane highway and how many cars per hour".

The studio can stack Art people like firewood, and that allows them to crank out Crown Store stuff very frequently.

EölMPK

I see your point, and I respect that, but I can't say I'm 100 on it

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Grunge wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Grunge wrote: »

Apples and oranges. Update the shop is waaaaaay easier than updating the game.

But then you realized those apples and oranges are from the same grocery. The shop is filled with apples, and barely any oranges, but customers all love orange juice. And when the new oranges do arrive, they're mostly bad.

As expected, nothing new here.
You can't compare this things dude. Its the same as saying:

"Ohhhh, your car shop takes sooooo long to fix cars, but your stamps shop is always up to date to sell new stamps! This is an absurd!"

Come on, not even hard to see or understand that....

PS: Never saw a bad upgrade in ESO, its just your opinion.

The car shop has nothing to do with the stamp shop. But the crown store team and balancing team is in the same company, and working on the same game. Your point is totally invalid.

Just another proof of the lack of knowledge. In my example (and as most situations on real life) the freaking stamp store is from the same company too

If my point is invalid, your thread should be buried in another planet.

Imhotep71

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Thank EA for the crown store to begin with, the lead operator for Cartel Market quit EA for Zo$

When did EA invent in-game cash shops?

They didn't invent it, was saying that the Cartel market was responsible for the creation of the Crown store

SWTOR did not invent the cash shop. Not even close to being one of the early adopters of the cash shop. That started in F2P games long before SWTOR was ever released.

Yeah was trying to say that the Crown store is the exact duplicate of the Cartel Market same prices, content, except Zo$ was smart to make them BoP to begin with

Would be nice if Crown Store items could be sold in game. That worked well in SWTOR and helps get rid of farmers

Linaleah

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Because "balancing" combat is as quick and simple as a single artist taking an outfit that's already in the game on NPCs, and sticking it into the "sell as a costume" framework that they've already used dozens of times. Right.

Or, for a little more work, taking one of the standard mount bodies and skeletons, and making it rocky/blue, glowy/orange, or jello/green. Again, a task for a single artist that has been done dozens of times by now.

As opposed to "balancing combat", an endless & hopeless task that has absorbed the effort of MMO dev teams as long as the genre has existed.

In the 2018, where even free MMO games such as League, Fornite, WOW, FF14 and such, are giving out faster (and most of the time, free) updates, saying that "Balancing the game is hard, so it's ok to be slow" is no more a reasonable excuse.
If you're slow on updating the game, then maybe hire more staff from all the money you made with your fast-updated crown store.

uh. league and Fornite are not MMO's and the only content updates they have are maps and occasional new hero.

WoW and FF14 are not even remotely free - they are paid expansions, subscription required. so no, those updates are NOT free. and they are most certainly NOT as quick as you say you are, i mean.. WoW balances combat what.. once a year, maybe at most? they have also been known to go without content updates for 6 months or more, AND they have also been known to release a patch that adds ability to take screenshots in game in a new way and post them on twitter and called it full fledged game update, so...

but anyways, what other people said. balancing takes a lot more time and completely different tool set from designing an outfit or a pet/mount recolor and making it available for sale.

so, ESO doesn't have sub? With paid DLCs every 3 months, and a new expansion every year, compare to FF14 and WOW getting only 1 expansion every 2 years?

optional subscription. optional vs mandatory. DLC's are only paid if you chose not to subscribe and again, they are ALSO optional. its totally fine not to buy them, unlike WoW or FF14 where you HAVE to buy expansions to keep participating in end game. you can litteraly play ESO for years while only having a base game and still play with people at end game. you won't be able to do all the dungeons and trials, but you can STILL do non DLC dungeons and trials and they are STILL being run.

and did you just.... did you just prove my point where you agreed that they release expansion content less often than ESO does? and you are still complaining about ESO content release content while comparing it to games that release content LESS often? and STILL have cash shop? that gets updates almost as often as ESO does? yes, that includes WoW.

1 expansion for WOW costs 60$, with contents as many as 2 years worth of ESO DLCs + chapters. While in 2 years 2 time, it'd costs you close to, or even more than 200$ to get all of the DLCs.
And let's be real, most vet players all have ESO+, since it's truly is a handicap to not having it.

But yet, if you play WoW enough those expacs will cost nothing, and I also thought they added all previous expansions as base game areas now?

they do - that is they are rolled into base game purchase once new expac comes out, kinda like the way morrowind was. that said.. do NOT overestimate the whole token thing. there is a reason why tokens still sell for the few that can afford to buy them with gold. becasue a lot more people have trouble MAKING gold, so they buy tokens with RL cash and sell them to people.

also, expansion content in wow on initial release is about the same amount of content or less then 2 chapters in ESO. intermittent patches are either comparable or far less content than ESO DLC's - you know DLC's that are included with subscription. when you look at content releases with objective eyes - ESO content releases are either on par with other major MMO's for the same price, or better.

moreover. when you play WoW subscription just gets you acess to the game. no more, no less. when you pay for subscription in ESO - you get crowns that you can then spend on crown store content. just for having subscription.

so...

ESO is not perfect by any stretch of imagination. but this ridiculousness of "look at how terrible they are and how much cheaper other games are for amount of content" is well.. ridiculous and bad math. and there is the whole confusing art team with combat team with story team thing. i would bet that there are only couple of people that are working on crown store releases.

Kingslayer513

So with this poll, either I fully agree, mostly agree, partially agree, or just have no clue? Talk about biased...

No, I disagree. I think people make a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to balance in this game. IMO the devs have done a fine job with combat balance and the game is in a better spot right now than it's been in a long time. Of course I'd still like to see tweaks and minor changes, but that's just the endless nature of mmo combat balance. And I think the class rep system is really going to streamline that process, so again I think the game is in a good spot right now.

I also completely disagree with saying the crown store is updated too fast. They throw a handful of lame reskins up every month, yet you make it sound like they're pumping out tons of new content... It's been a LONG time since I've seen something in the crown store that made me think "wow, I really need to buy that".

If your post had instead been about the extremely sluggish base game QoL updates, then I'd be completely on board. Are we really going to go through the entire life of this mmo with a barely functional guild store interface? At this point I'd go for a whole update focused on revamping guilds, trade, and economy.

Kingslayer513

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

You just joined in April 2017, barely an year and started complaining crown store.

Tbh there are a lot of people (myself included) who have been playing for many years and yet have newer forum accounts because ZOS makes you jump through hoops just to register a forum account.

DaveMoeDee

Imhotep71 wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Thank EA for the crown store to begin with, the lead operator for Cartel Market quit EA for Zo$

When did EA invent in-game cash shops?

They didn't invent it, was saying that the Cartel market was responsible for the creation of the Crown store

SWTOR did not invent the cash shop. Not even close to being one of the early adopters of the cash shop. That started in F2P games long before SWTOR was ever released.

Yeah was trying to say that the Crown store is the exact duplicate of the Cartel Market same prices, content, except Zo$ was smart to make them BoP to begin with

Would be nice if Crown Store items could be sold in game. That worked well in SWTOR and helps get rid of farmers

I think that is why there is crown store gifting now.

Mintaka5

Totally agree.

Totally.

If they put more resources into maintenance and support that they do in pumping out cookie-cutter mounts and other crown-store items, we'd have no reason to complain about lag, connection issues, and the number of other things that ZoS can't seem to EVER fix. Every day that goes by, as much as I appreciate the new content, it's not creating any more substantial value, that will keep me around for much longer. New content is a measure of quantity, not QUALITY.

Mintaka5

Totally agree.

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

So in conclude, what do I want to propose? ZOS, if you have 3 months to prepare for a balance change, make it worth 3 months time, because some are pretty well done (not entirely good, but well done), and a lot are just underwhelming. If you can update your crown store in such a fast succession, then please, do the same for the thing that is actually matter, balance changes. Or at the very least, make better balance changes.

To follow up with my previous response, YES! I've noticed over the last 4 major patches, a minimal change in class balancing. It's still the same old builds dominating PvP, and if there was any significant changes made to this aspect of the game, we'd see a shift in the player-base, and devs would not have to wave a carrot in our face (introducing meh hybrid sets and such) to get us to try new builds that are highly under-utilized classes.

A great example is my healer magplar. Before Summerset's release the healer was superb at healing, but was constantly being instantly killed (literally one-shotted every time), even with all heavy armor, impenetrable trait, and ample usage of damage mitigation abilities. I mean this build felt no different than my magsorc who uses a light armor gearset in PvP (the rate of damage taken feels the same). Now since the healer is primarily built for healing first and damage second, she is constantly prioritized by heavy fighter classes, most of all hard hitting magdks and stealthy nightblades. After the Summerset release, nothing has changed. The healer is still being excessively burned down, and no matter how I change up my skill, CP, gear, or strategy, the same types of classes are dealing the same level of damage (even stacking damage mitigation skills, and restoration staff ultimate, and still go down just as quickly). There is no effective change.

Now I'm not asking for a win-all advantage, but honestly myself and other players spend entirely too much time reviving at keeps just to arrive at a battle to die in seconds. That alone to me does not represent any balance at all. Shouldn't we all be enjoying the fight whether we win it or not. Getting insta-killed as a healer is not my idea of fun, especially when there is no feasible way to use the tools given to me in-game to enhance their battle-readiness against over-powered builds in an unbalanced game. I had high hopes for magicka non-fighter classes in Summerset, and I'd hate to say it, but thanks for nothing (honestly, the psijic order skill line is neat, but really doesn't improve things)?

MerlinPendragon

It's really hard to say for me

There's nothing wrong with updating the Crown Store. Most of that is pre programmed well ahead of release to us

N00BxV1

I didn't vote because the OP is talking about balance, which is less important to me than bug and performance fixes.

It does seem like more effort is put into crown sales rather than fixing the game's problems. IDGAF about the new re-skinned shiny, I care more about what I've already paid for actually working properly all the time. What good will that new shiny do me if I'm crashing, disconnecting, or having to deal with outstanding bugs...

DenMoria

Because balance is so easy to achieve by simply nerfing whatever class/skill the requestor demands so satisfy their wants rather than the entire community.

I can't imagine that balance adjustments would be easy. It must be a nightmare to try to balance things so that everybody, or at least the majority, or players are happy.

Cpt_Teemo

Totally agree.

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

You just joined in April 2017, barely an year and started complaining crown store.

Tbh there are a lot of people (myself included) who have been playing for many years and yet have newer forum accounts because ZOS makes you jump through hoops just to register a forum account.

Yeah should've been the same date you created your game account

MasturCheef

essi2 wrote: »

Re-skinning mounts and tweaking costumes does not take up any significant development resources, it does in fact enable development to be done by bringing in more money.

Nuff said.


Also, where‘s the „completely disagree in every aspect“ option in your poll? You‘re baiting trolls, which is no bueno.

Seraphayel

Totally agree.

Sure they are. They're selling you 2 dungeons for $30. Not even the worst Asian F2P game does that. And guess what, they're so generous and giving us TWO dungeon DLCs this year so we can even have more fun. Isn't that great?

Seraphayel

Totally agree.

idk wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

TL:DR

I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure that they have different teams responsible for cosmetics and game balance / performance.

Yeah and 1 team is obviously doing a better job than the other.

Considering Summerset, good story lines, good zone and a new trial. Yes, the content development team is doing great.

That's a joke isn't it? Other games offer 5 new zones and 10 dungeons in an expansion for $30 and not just one zone with a short trial.

I mean WoW and FFXIV got a lot more content in their content patches that are "free" than ZOS packed into Summerset.

idk

Seraphayel wrote: »

Sure they are. They're selling you 2 dungeons for $30. Not even the worst Asian F2P game does that. And guess what, they're so generous and giving us TWO dungeon DLCs this year so we can even have more fun. Isn't that great?

It is . I will enjoy those dungeons and both zones added to the game this year.

BTW, I think you confuse how Asian F2P games generate most of their revenue. It certainly is not in providing well designed dungeons and questing zones. That takes much more effort then they are willing to put into it. Just check out BDO as a prime example and that is one of their best.

Seraphayel wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

TL:DR

I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure that they have different teams responsible for cosmetics and game balance / performance.

Yeah and 1 team is obviously doing a better job than the other.

Considering Summerset, good story lines, good zone and a new trial. Yes, the content development team is doing great.

That's a joke isn't it? Other games offer 5 new zones and 10 dungeons in an expansion for $30 and not just one zone with a short trial.

I mean WoW and FFXIV got a lot more content in their content patches that are "free" than ZOS packed into Summerset.

I would rather play ESO and get the better zones and dungeons than have to deal with WoW and FF. Seems like most in these forums agrees.

DenMoria

The problem with that is that you'd have to play WoW or FF. Is it any wonder they do that?

Seraphayel wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

TL:DR

I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure that they have different teams responsible for cosmetics and game balance / performance.

Yeah and 1 team is obviously doing a better job than the other.

Considering Summerset, good story lines, good zone and a new trial. Yes, the content development team is doing great.

That's a joke isn't it? Other games offer 5 new zones and 10 dungeons in an expansion for $30 and not just one zone with a short trial.

I mean WoW and FFXIV got a lot more content in their content patches that are "free" than ZOS packed into Summerset.

Seraphayel

Totally agree.

DenMoria wrote: »

The problem with that is that you'd have to play WoW or FF. Is it any wonder they do that?

Seraphayel wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

TL:DR

I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure that they have different teams responsible for cosmetics and game balance / performance.

Yeah and 1 team is obviously doing a better job than the other.

Considering Summerset, good story lines, good zone and a new trial. Yes, the content development team is doing great.

That's a joke isn't it? Other games offer 5 new zones and 10 dungeons in an expansion for $30 and not just one zone with a short trial.

I mean WoW and FFXIV got a lot more content in their content patches that are "free" than ZOS packed into Summerset.

Both are excellent MMORPGs in their own ways, like ESO is. Nevertheless neither Blizzard nor Square are trying to milk you as much as ZOS does. Everything in this game seems to be tailored around the Crown Store. And that's obviously their main focus now.

Linaleah

Seraphayel wrote: »

Sure they are. They're selling you 2 dungeons for $30. Not even the worst Asian F2P game does that. And guess what, they're so generous and giving us TWO dungeon DLCs this year so we can even have more fun. Isn't that great?

dungeon DLC's are typically 1500 crowns, or $15. aka one month of subscription. collector's edition version that's $30 - comes with mount and pet. you are paying extra for mount and pet. its not a difficult concept.

SDraconis

a pound a day keeps the doctor away