[Class Rep] Warden Feedback Thread

Vaoh

@Maura_Neysa

In Dragon Bones, a lot of data was taken to get a truly accurate depiction of Warden performance in endgame Vet Trial content. Outside of obvious lack of performance in nearly all Trial scenarios, it is necessary to have this data to make factual claims. Nothing has changed for them in any significant class-based way to alter these numbers for PvE Content (though in Cloudrest I’d argue that having one Warden Tank or one Warden Healer, in particular a Warden Healer, is actually good).

PS4 NA Leaderboards by... well myself...

Vaoh wrote: »

PS4 NA


Here are the percentages of each class representation per trial:

Hel Ra Citadel:
DK: 23.12%
Sorc: 26.30%
NB: 26.01%
Templar: 22.68%
Warden: 1.878%

Aetherian Archive
DK: 18.95%
Sorc: 24.18%
NB: 30.74%
Templar: 24.42%
Warden: 0.895%

Sanctum Ophidia
DK: 3.72%
Sorc: 25.74%
NB: 23.32%
Templar: 24.66%
Warden: 2.560%

Dragonstar Arena
DK: 29.59%
Sorc: 31.39%
NB: 21.07%
Templar: 15.24%
Warden: 2.690%

Maw of Lorkhaj
DK: 24.38%
Sorc: 20.08%
NB: 30.94%
Templar: 31.76%
Warden: 1.024%

Halls of Fabrication
DK: 22.24%
Sorc: 21.56%
NB: 31.65%
Templar: 23.85%
Warden: 0.688%

Asylum Sanctorium
DK: 11.98%
Sorc: 22.71%
NB: 40.06%
Templar: 22.08%
Warden: 3.154%

TOTAL
DK: 21.95%
Sorc: 24.35%
NB: 28.64%
Templar: 23.32%
Warden: 1.740%


Here are the raw numbers, including the total entries per trial.

Using a similar template to what @GaelicCat made.

Hel Ra Citadel:
Total entries: 692
DK: 160
Sorc: 182
NB: 180
Templar: 157
Warden: 13

Aetherian Archive
Total entries: 670
DK: 127
Sorc: 162
NB: 206
Templar: 169
Warden: 6 .... fun fact: 3 entries were the same person, 1 was me because I was really bored during and did the weekly .....

Sanctum Ophidia
Total entries: 742
DK: 176
Sorc: 191
NB: 173
Templar: 183
Warden: 19

Dragonstar Arena
Total entries: 223
DK: 66
Sorc: 70
NB: 47
Templar: 34
Warden: 6

Maw of Lorkhaj
Total entries: 488
DK: 119
Sorc: 98
NB: 151
Templar: 115
Warden: 5

Halls of Fabrication
Total entries: 436
DK: 97
Sorc: 94
NB: 138
Templar: 104
Warden: 3

Asylum Sanctorium
Total entries: 317
DK: 38
Sorc: 72
NB: 127
Templar: 70
Warden: 10

TOTAL
Total entries: 3568
DK: 783
Sorc: 869
NB: 1022
Templar: 832
Warden: 62

EDITED to make sure this is all correct.

As of April 21st, 2018 at 2:01am est, this is exactly what the PS4 NA trial leaderboards look like.

PC EU Leaderboards by @GaelicCat

GaelicCat wrote: »

Here's the PC-EU numbers:

Top 100

HRC: 3
AA: 0
SO: 3
DSA: 2
MoL: 2
HoF: 1
AS: 0

Top 200

HRC: 9
AA: 4
SO: 4
DSA: 3
MoL: 3
HoF: 5
AS: 1

Total amount of each class Ranked:


Hel Ra Citadel:
DK: 184
Sorc: 187
NB: 181
Templar: 169
Warden: 19

Aetherian Archive
DK: 160
Sorc: 183
NB: 190
Templar: 162
Warden: 17

Sanctum Ophidia
DK: 187
Sorc: 201
NB: 188
Templar: 172
Warden: 20

Dragonstar Arena
DK: 76
Sorc: 81
NB: 81
Templar: 58
Warden: 7

Maw of Lorkhaj
DK: 143
Sorc: 141
NB: 159
Templar: 131
Warden: 9

Halls of Fabrication
DK: 129
Sorc: 130
NB: 143
Templar: 121
Warden: 8

Asylum Sanctorium
DK: 53
Sorc: 77
NB: 147
Templar: 65
Warden: 4

Weekly (HoF)
DK: 16
Sorc: 15
NB: 16
Templar: 14
Warden: 1

PC NA Leaderboards by @MLGProPlayer

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Let's tally up again how many wardens there are on leader boards at the moment (PC/NA).

Top-100:

HRC: 1
AA: 0
SO: 4
MoL: 1
HoF: 1
AS: 2
DSA: 1

How about top-200?

HRC: 2
AA: 3
SO: 8
MoL: 2
HoF: 2
AS: 2
DSA: 4
?

In terms of Summerset, I said above that Warden has never been more useful before than they are in the newest trial, Cloudrest (at least for Healing, possibly Tanking too). Here are the Summerset PC NA Leaderboard for Cloudrest by @erlewine

Nightblades - 199
Sorcerer - 88
Dragonknight - 86
Templar - 76
Warden - 12

erlewine’s numbers amount to:
Dragonknights - 18.66%
Sorcerers - 19.09%
Nightblades - 43.16%
Templars - 16.49%
Wardens - 2.60%

As Summerset is still new these numbers could easily have changed by now, but these were the numbers not too long ago.

I understand you don’t feel that Wardens are underperforming but these leaderboards have been overwhelmingly clear for an entire year now - players are rightfully annoyed. Please take your arguing with the other poster to PMs so that this thread can attempt to stay productive and maybe one day Wardens will be closer to any of the other class representations on the leaderboards. Thank you

exiars10

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Except you have to learn how to Warden tank which is still paygate. AND most of the popular Build publishers keep trying to apply DK builds to Wardens. I referenced Loifa's video because IMO he is one of the ones playing a Warden tank as a Warden and not a DK

Woeler (who is argubly the best DK tank?) and Alcast Warden tank builds don't use Gripping Shards at all - in that case they didn't copy DK build (of course they use Talons) which I don't understand at all. I typed about it in forum.
And when your average player copies it (can't blame them), s/he is left out with strong AoE CC.

erlewine

exiars10 wrote: »

Woeler (who is argubly the best DK tank?) and Alcast Warden tank builds don't use Gripping Shards at all - in that case they didn't copy DK build (of course they use Talons) which I don't understand at all. I typed about it in forum.
And when your average player copies it (can't blame them), s/he is left out with strong AoE CC.

Because those builds are for trials, and Root is not needed on most trials.

Maura_Neysa

exiars10 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Except you have to learn how to Warden tank which is still paygate. AND most of the popular Build publishers keep trying to apply DK builds to Wardens. I referenced Loifa's video because IMO he is one of the ones playing a Warden tank as a Warden and not a DK

Woeler (who is argubly the best DK tank?) and Alcast Warden tank builds don't use Gripping Shards at all - in that case they didn't copy DK build (of course they use Talons) which I don't understand at all. I typed about it in forum.
And when your average player copies it (can't blame them), s/he is left out with strong AoE CC.

Those two are specifically who I was referring to when I said people who put out builds try to play a Warden as if its a DK. Specificly what is wrong with Woeler's Guardian build up right now IS the fact he isn't running frost. Frost is absolutely savage on a tank, AoE Minor Maim, AoE Roots. Anything within 6 meters of me is Maimed and getting rooted on cooldown, not counting the Gripping cast. If you are talking about situations where enemies are immune to root then yeah, dont run Gripping, however Gripping is superior to Talons in every way. Sure its 1 second shorter, but its a 30%slow for 12 seconds and procs Chilled which gets you Minor Maim and another root. I can't tell you how many tanks I have reintroduced to Warden tanking after they have given up. Then they've seen me tank and asked how. I've shared my build and they have tried again. They dont even necessarily run my build in full, I back bar an Ice Staff, but they understand how to tank on a Warden afterwards and can adapt to their own play style

Yes Wardens need a metric ton of help. Maybe even a Warden Tank, some situations like Death of a 1000 Cuts are certainly harder on a Warden. Some situations though are easier, like Off Tanking Ozara or Hiath are easier on a Warden. Talking purely tanking aspect. For group utility, DK again has Warden beat if the utility you want is offensive, DPS oriented. The extra that the Warden brings are defensive, health and healing oriented. Don't frigging break the Warden in its strongest roles while trying to convince ZoS to fix it in its weakest roles.

@Voah
Not sure why you linked all that, especially considering after Dragon Bones was when Wardens lost favor. The nerf to Off Balance up times drove everyone away from lighting and made Engulfing that much more important. Pay Gate also continued to be an issue. Even now in Summerset, Warden is still a crown store purchase? They remain the same issue as Imperial. Though we console really haven't had enough time to see any effects yet, there are certainly less Bears running round this early June than there where last June. So I very much doubt the population of Wardens will increase. Stamina falling out of favor making the decent StamDen DPS even less likely to be adding to those leader board numbers either. My one run in CR so far got shocked comments seeing my Wild Guardian running around, admittedly all that teleporting is not slow a** Bear friendly at all.

Now, I will do as asked and drop it.

exiars10

erlewine wrote: »

exiars10 wrote: »

Woeler (who is argubly the best DK tank?) and Alcast Warden tank builds don't use Gripping Shards at all - in that case they didn't copy DK build (of course they use Talons) which I don't understand at all. I typed about it in forum.
And when your average player copies it (can't blame them), s/he is left out with strong AoE CC.

Because those builds are for trials, and Root is not needed on most trials.

Did you read to the end what I typed as this doesn't have any sense. They use Talon on DK trial build!

Directly from Woeler site.
https://woeler.eu/eso-dragonknight-tank-build/

Patch: 4.0 Summerset
Class: Dragonknight
Purpose: Trials Main-Tank

Choking Talons: An AoE root that works extremely well in large groups of enemies. Also reduces the damage affected enemies do.

So it's useful to run AoE CC on DK, but not on Warden and his Warden build is also as trails main tank.
The good thing I didn't copy it, but most people do (don't blame them for it) and they miss very important AoE CC.

erlewine

exiars10 wrote: »

root

Oh sorry, I thought his build didn't have Talons either. That's strange. Obviously, both classes should slot root for content where it's relevant, and take it out where it's not. I guess the problem is more that people just straight copy the meta guides without understanding why they're doing what they're doing.

I consider Wardens to be the second best tank, and about on par with DKs in 4-man content now that they've got Silver Leash, and one of the primary reasons is because they've got Root, which is really powerful for a tank just starting out.

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Frost is absolutely savage on a tank, AoE Minor Maim, AoE Roots. Anything within 6 meters of me is Maimed and getting rooted on cooldown, not counting the Gripping cast.

Funny you say this, because Grippign Shards has just a 15% chance to proc Minor Maim... yet DK Talons has 100% chance to apply AoE minor maim, lul. Also, Frost status effect does not root or snare. It only roots if you Ice Staff Blockade a Chilled target. For being such a super-pro tank, you seem to be confused about a lot of really basic things.

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Though we console really haven't had enough time to see any effects yet, there are certainly less Bears running round this early June than there where last June.

You're so close to connecting the dots here. Could there be another reason there's less bears running around?

erlewine

Some good news - the Lightning Rain on vAS no longer targets the Bear pet. It used to pretty much kill the pet every time, as well as being dangerous to the rest of the raid.

Galarthor

My main two grievances with Wardens are
1) Crystallized Shield (and its morphs - especially Shimmering Shields) absorb way too much damage for its effective cost. It basically renders ranged builds that are based on projectiles completely useless. (This is obviously PvP related, as in PvE no other player is attacking you).

2) The warden as a class has just access to too many buffs and debuffs compared to other classes. Need any specific buff or debuff? Just ask your friendly Warden! I think a rebalancing of the access to the major and minor buffs of this game across all character classes is necessary.

Buff for the Warden:
Give Screaming Cliff Racer the undodgeable trait back. Given the fast travel time it might be approriate to not make it 100% hit but give it a chance to bypass dodge. This shouldn't really affect PvE at all, so no reason not to do it other than NBs complaining.

MLGProPlayer

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

exiars10 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Except you have to learn how to Warden tank which is still paygate. AND most of the popular Build publishers keep trying to apply DK builds to Wardens. I referenced Loifa's video because IMO he is one of the ones playing a Warden tank as a Warden and not a DK

Woeler (who is argubly the best DK tank?) and Alcast Warden tank builds don't use Gripping Shards at all - in that case they didn't copy DK build (of course they use Talons) which I don't understand at all. I typed about it in forum.
And when your average player copies it (can't blame them), s/he is left out with strong AoE CC.

Those two are specifically who I was referring to when I said people who put out builds try to play a Warden as if its a DK. Specificly what is wrong with Woeler's Guardian build up right now IS the fact he isn't running frost. Frost is absolutely savage on a tank, AoE Minor Maim, AoE Roots. Anything within 6 meters of me is Maimed and getting rooted on cooldown, not counting the Gripping cast. If you are talking about situations where enemies are immune to root then yeah, dont run Gripping, however Gripping is superior to Talons in every way. Sure its 1 second shorter, but its a 30%slow for 12 seconds and procs Chilled which gets you Minor Maim and another root. I can't tell you how many tanks I have reintroduced to Warden tanking after they have given up. Then they've seen me tank and asked how. I've shared my build and they have tried again. They dont even necessarily run my build in full, I back bar an Ice Staff, but they understand how to tank on a Warden afterwards and can adapt to their own play style

Yes Wardens need a metric ton of help. Maybe even a Warden Tank, some situations like Death of a 1000 Cuts are certainly harder on a Warden. Some situations though are easier, like Off Tanking Ozara or Hiath are easier on a Warden. Talking purely tanking aspect. For group utility, DK again has Warden beat if the utility you want is offensive, DPS oriented. The extra that the Warden brings are defensive, health and healing oriented. Don't frigging break the Warden in its strongest roles while trying to convince ZoS to fix it in its weakest roles.

@Voah
Not sure why you linked all that, especially considering after Dragon Bones was when Wardens lost favor. The nerf to Off Balance up times drove everyone away from lighting and made Engulfing that much more important. Pay Gate also continued to be an issue. Even now in Summerset, Warden is still a crown store purchase? They remain the same issue as Imperial. Though we console really haven't had enough time to see any effects yet, there are certainly less Bears running round this early June than there where last June. So I very much doubt the population of Wardens will increase. Stamina falling out of favor making the decent StamDen DPS even less likely to be adding to those leader board numbers either. My one run in CR so far got shocked comments seeing my Wild Guardian running around, admittedly all that teleporting is not slow a** Bear friendly at all.

Now, I will do as asked and drop it.

Wardens never had more representation than this on leader boards. I've done these lists periodicially before.

And pay wall is absolutely not an issue. Every serious endgame player owns the warden. You can look at vHoF where you aren't allowed to play the trial unless you own the warden, and representation there is still 1.5%.

I'm not sure why you're arguing against buffs to the most underperforming class in the game. I'm starting to think you're an alt account trying to sabotage this class.

regime211

gabriebe wrote: »

Give magica Wardens the undodgeable birds back. And add a snare to them too.

Frozen Device takes forever to cast. Make it cast faster, and ideally all 3 of them at once.

One-slot the bear.

Give us a stun for crying out loud.

Honestly they should make it to where, upon casting frozen device it just shoots out in 3 directions instead of you having to place it down.

grizzly375

Two pain points - OK, I'll try, but have to break it into two categories (hope that's not cheating!)

Both Mag and Stam:

1. The Bear, darn your eyes! Look - the bear is the POINT of this class, and it's symbol. Making it an ultimate that needs to be double barred is a meany joke. My suggestion is a lot more radical than most - make it part of the passive Animal Companions line - and let us put points into it to make it (a) available and (b) BETTER. Even double slotted, the Bear sucks against general mobs (no AOE and too slow) and Bosses (not survivable and just plain bad AI). So - make it a passive so we can slot Ultimates that actually do something; keep the bear "Ultimate" as a mega attack.

Magden -
2. DPS sucks. All around, just sucks. Increase damage on Warden skills so they're useful

Stamden -
2. Class skills are meh. Spending too much time doing weapon-line skills - makes the build feel cookie cutter

Tlania

1. Class stun so we are not stuck to weapon skill lines in pvp stamina has SnB, bow, 2h magicka destro staff, not a lot of build diversity is viable in pvp
2. So many buffs to keep up make some as passives, seems to me was rushed at the end to get the update out and class suffered for it

Maura_Neysa

@MLGProPlayer stop trying to bait. If you think I’m a ult, you’ve got a seriously short memory span or you’re just baiting. Warden needs a buff. The reason it hasn’t got one is because it was over performing in PvP. People who are trying to Warden Tank buff are going to cause that same situation over again. Iron Skin and the need for Engulfing are the only reason DK has held onto the top tanking spot. Other then then only having a 20% max health heal instead of a 30% Warden Tanks are in a very good place. And they have enough other healing, that I’m not entirely sure they should get that change


You know something that would go a long way to upping Warden importance in End Game? Drop Minor Toughness from War Horn

TheNightflame

i've already mentioned this skill, but to emphasize: polar wind heals fewer people, heals for less, and costs more, than budding seeds on a health stacking tank. (and it doesnt provide a synnergy)

kojou

I mainly have issues with PvE Magicka Warden...

1. Make DoT timings consistent. I recommend standardizing on 8 seconds to make it line up with Blockade. It is hard work to even get close to the same DPS I can do on any other classes easily.

2. Artic Blast: Reduce the duration to 8 seconds, increase the damage and radius to at least the level of Hurricane, and remove the heal. I think it would also be nice if it gave minor maim to targets within the AoE that attack you, but I will settle for having another ice based DoT.

I could say more about how much I hate that the frost staff is a tank weapon and how it ruins my dream of making an Ice Mage, but I'll be good and limit my post to 2 items.

Avran_Sylt

I'll just throw these out there:

I'd like Leeching Vines to become an enemy targeted gap-closer ability that applies a DoT that you heal from.

I'd like Frozen Retreat to become part of the base skill, and allow the now empty morph spot to be replaced with an ice-based DPS tool. (If you want to copy DK, it could make all enemies in the area take increased Frost Damage)

I'll echo others in saying that Artic Blast would be nice if the damage scaled off of Max Magicka.

And the increased range morph for Expansive Frost Cloak is lack-luster IMO, and I would love to see it turned into an ability that causes melee attackers to be afflicted with the Chilled Status Effect. (Again DK inspired)

Anhedonie

btw adding a spriggan pet that would help with healing and ranged damage dealing would be great.

Maura_Neysa

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

I'll just throw these out there:

I'd like Leeching Vines to become an enemy targeted gap-closer ability that applies a DoT that you heal from.

Seriously no, why would you have a gap closer on a tanking skill If you want that skill it should come from one of the morphs of Nature's Embrace rather than Living Vines. Is that what you really meant?

I'd like Frozen Retreat to become part of the base skill, and allow the now empty morph spot to be replaced with an ice-based DPS tool. (If you want to copy DK, it could make all enemies in the area take increased Frost Damage)

Absolutely not, you dont want the Tank running a skill that will drag you right into the cleave. The tanking morph should NOT have this option available. If anything leave Retreat were it is, but remove the pull from it. That way its a usable damage skill for DPS/Healer that will also get you out of the fire, Frost Damage buff or whatever. A second Frost DoT (aka Liquid Lighting) Though this does have issues too. Does the Tank accidentally Retreat away from the boss trying to proc Alkosh? That could be devastating.

I'll echo others in saying that Arctic Blast would be nice if the damage scaled off of Max Magicka.

Not against the damage scaling on Max Magicka, though this is an excellent tanking skill for AoE Minor Maim, so the Heal being based on Max Health is very nice. I do understand that DPS wouldn't like that. So its problematic changing it. Personally I dont think Polar Wind is worth much, but other tanks run that morph. If both did damage, one scaled on Max Magic and the other healed an Alley would be my ideal solution. Again thats a lot of change though, and to a skill thats heal strength is already questionable.

And the increased range morph for Expansive Frost Cloak is lack-luster IMO, and I would love to see it turned into an ability that causes melee attackers to be afflicted with the Chilled Status Effect. (Again DK inspired)

Unless they have fixed the bug where Expansive does not go on the caster than this wont be useful because Tanks wont use it and hopefully few others are getting melees. The extra range is good, the problem is that NB and sorc usually already have this buff and they are currently the majority of a trials group. If DK and Stamplars were more common than Expansive Cloak would be a lot stronger. Otherwise seems like a decent change in the current environment.

exiars10

I wrote about this but I will write again:

F.CK Warden! The most bugged class by far! Playing in Cyrodiil is nightmare!

I am 2-3+ min in combat after combat is long gone! Hellooooooooo! I can't mount (huge and game breaking issue for me as Cyrodiil is horse simulator), I can't change abilities...

There is a battle in the middle of nowhere, everybody is gone, and I can't mount so I have to use Bird of Prey and run like moron. I see some other players have this same problem.
I want to run away from enemy zerg - too bad you can't mount.
Did I mention getting stuck on Warden?

I really "enjoy" as Warden DD in Cyrodiil (compared to super boring PvE DD), it really feels like the class for PvP but it's simply impossible to properly play from the sheer amount of bugs.

Avran_Sylt

@Maura_Neysa

Ooops, that's my inexperience with Warden showing. I mean Nature's Grasp (or at least a morph), lol.

Maura_Neysa

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Maura_Neysa

Ooops, that's my inexperience with Warden showing. I mean Nature's Grasp (or at least a morph), lol.

Yeah, Its kind of common people getting especially Winters/Natures skills mixed up. I would love to see a damage skill in Nature's, and a 2nd actually usable damage skill from Winter's

LeHarrt91

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Maura_Neysa

Ooops, that's my inexperience with Warden showing. I mean Nature's Grasp (or at least a morph), lol.

Yeah, Its kind of common people getting especially Winters/Natures skills mixed up. I would love to see a damage skill in Nature's, and a 2nd actually usable damage skill from Winter's

Totally agree, with a damage skill in Green Balance and a second in Winters Embrace (i know Frozen Gate now deals damage but that also pulls enemies to you)
and someone suggested the ability to summon a Spriggan, that would be cool.

Millz

Stamden here.

1.) no passive snare or something a stamden could use for a snare effectively. Shalks should snare or cutting dive and morphs. AND before anyone comments on this point every class has a snare outside of weapons skills so dont give me that run rending slashes or low slash stuff. Because as we all know wardens kits are basically all buffs.

2.) FIX the animations! ALL of them

LeHarrt91

Well the Warden does have access to class abilities that snare. Sleet Storm and Impaling Shards and morphs. but they are an Ultimate and magicka skill.

The only class stamina snares i can think of are Biting Jabs and Venomous Claw and Noxious Breath (due to Warmth passive)

Maura_Neysa

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Well the Warden does have access to class abilities that snare. Sleet Storm and Impaling Shards and morphs. but they are an Ultimate and magicka skill.

The only class stamina snares i can think of are Biting Jabs and Venomous Claw and Noxious Breath (due to Warmth passive)

Personally I'm fine with giving one back, but they aren't going to put it on Sub after taking it from Fissure. Really it should be on a separate skill anyway, just like Talons, Encase, etc. Fissure having a stun directly contradicted the recent broad sweeping nerf to all snares. Personally I'm glad they took away the stun rather than the damage of Fissure. Wardens do not have the damage capability to spare. Where as Stuns are only worth while in 10% of the game that maybe 30% of the player base spend more then half the game in.

Yzalirk

The Warden has become one of my favorite classes, particularly for Tanking, but it definitely needs some love.

The ice abilities should dish out more damage for sure. For a class you have to pay for, it would be cool to see it as a great hybrid type of skill line.

The pets just seem bland and boring because they are all Morrowind-based creatures for the most part. The Netch is probably the most useful in my opinion. The Shalks need to be better at debuffing enemies and feels too clunky. The Cliff Racer is pretty cool and is very nice to regain health and deal damage as a DD.

Anti_Virus

gabriebe wrote: »

I think a nice way to work some Frost Damage into the Warden without changing the nature of every skill tree would be to remove the stam morph of Cliff Racer (stamwardens alrdy got enough burst) and change it to a Magic morph with a Throwback or Frost Damage Morph with a snare.

And I agree that Swarm as an ulti makes a lot more sense. Could work a little bit like bat swarm, but instead of health it gives magica and stamina back. Or another morph could inflict magic damage, cleanses every ally that goes through it and inflicts major maim.

gabriebe wrote: »

I think a nice way to work some Frost Damage into the Warden without changing the nature of every skill tree would be to remove the stam morph of Cliff Racer (stamwardens alrdy got enough burst) and change it to a Magic morph with a Throwback or Frost Damage Morph with a snare.

And I agree that Swarm as an ulti makes a lot more sense. Could work a little bit like bat swarm, but instead of health it gives magica and stamina back. Or another morph could inflict magic damage, cleanses every ally that goes through it and inflicts major maim.

NO, that skills saves ranged stamina based dps(double bow). Believe it or not some people actually play an archer warden.

Maura_Neysa

Anti_Virus wrote: »

NO, that skills saves ranged stamina based dps(double bow). Believe it or not some people actually play an archer warden.

Wow @Anti_Virus is right, thats a terrible idea

gabriebe wrote: »

I think a nice way to work some Frost Damage into the Warden without changing the nature of every skill tree would be to remove the stam morph of Cliff Racer (stamwardens alrdy got enough burst) and change it to a Magic morph with a Throwback or Frost Damage Morph with a snare.

- Its in the wrong tree to be doing Frost damage
- People asking for an additional stamina skill is a common comment.
- Its not even like PvP StamDens run it normally anyway. Its Sub, Wrecking, Reverse or Sub, Dawn, Reverse.

gabriebe wrote: »

And I agree that Swarm as an ulti makes a lot more sense. Could work a little bit like bat swarm, but instead of health it gives magica and stamina back. Or another morph could inflict magic damage, cleanses every ally that goes through it and inflicts major maim.

- Where would you put this ulti? People like the Bear, it just has issues that need fixed.
- Why would Wardens want another source of Major Maim when they already have one?
- Why would anyone want another half damage half utility ulti? If you want that just run Northern/PermaFrost

If they are going to add another Frost damage skill, there is room for it. Replace Cristalized Slab, its worthless. You could also move the Frost pulse of Arctic Blast to the base skill. Even with 40k health its still only 1k damage every 2 sec. Then make an actual damage skill out of the morph. Make it scale of Max Mag/Spell Damage and pulse every second.

That would be how you DONT "change the nature of every skill"

Mojomonkeyman

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Well the Warden does have access to class abilities that snare. Sleet Storm and Impaling Shards and morphs. but they are an Ultimate and magicka skill.

The only class stamina snares i can think of are Biting Jabs and Venomous Claw and Noxious Breath (due to Warmth passive)

Personally I'm fine with giving one back, but they aren't going to put it on Sub after taking it from Fissure. Really it should be on a separate skill anyway, just like Talons, Encase, etc. Fissure having a stun directly contradicted the recent broad sweeping nerf to all snares. Personally I'm glad they took away the stun rather than the damage of Fissure. Wardens do not have the damage capability to spare. Where as Stuns are only worth while in 10% of the game that maybe 30% of the player base spend more then half the game in.

Posts like this show your total disconnect with magWarden needs in PvP. As a fulltime PvP magWarden I wish you would take a step back from those feedback threads and leave room for people being more knowledgeable than you are.

Thanks.

MLGProPlayer

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Well the Warden does have access to class abilities that snare. Sleet Storm and Impaling Shards and morphs. but they are an Ultimate and magicka skill.

The only class stamina snares i can think of are Biting Jabs and Venomous Claw and Noxious Breath (due to Warmth passive)

Personally I'm fine with giving one back, but they aren't going to put it on Sub after taking it from Fissure. Really it should be on a separate skill anyway, just like Talons, Encase, etc. Fissure having a stun directly contradicted the recent broad sweeping nerf to all snares. Personally I'm glad they took away the stun rather than the damage of Fissure. Wardens do not have the damage capability to spare. Where as Stuns are only worth while in 10% of the game that maybe 30% of the player base spend more then half the game in.

Fissure is nearly useless in PvE. Its only purpose is trash mob clearing. You swap it out during boss fights.