That Guy we always end up kicking from group (You're not going to like it)

Aluneth

MrSensible wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

So the rest of the forum makes many of us too uncomfortable to queue for not being good enough. CP750 and I still haven't queued for anything I can't solo. Now, I find out that I am also am the problem if I can solo it. nFG1 is about a 10 minute solo at this point. So that's bad now too.

I guess as long as I'm not good or bad or casual or hardcore or slow or in a hurry, then I can play? Awesome sauce.

Do Tamriel a favor and find your fourth guy in zone or guild chat or even here. There are lots of people that wish they had a group like yours. You are in an odd situation where you can be a great guy, by finding that lucky person who wants a group but not the pressure, or you can be a total jerk by kicking someone because they don't fit your preconceived group. Being nice is an extra effort, but I certainly hope you choose that.

I'm not sure if this was a joke post or not.

You seem to have taken my post as bizarrely personal. The OP is about bridging the gap between two very drastic ends of the spectrum with regards to dungeon content, hopefully giving more longevity and quality to the overall dungeon experience.

My friends and I give every person a chance when we start up a dungeon. We inform them that we want to do the quest (if it is our first time there). We usually know right away if it'll work out. The person will say something like "cool, me too" or "NP". Or they will say nothing at all, which is usually followed by them pulling 3 groups of mobs. 5 minutes later That Guy is back in Rawl'Kha.

It has been suggested by you and several others already that we should just stop using the Group Finder. I mean that's not going to happen. You know it, I know it. Everyone knows it. But let's just say that I did. You have to know that I'm not the only one with the issue described in the OP. There are others who will also continue. So like the OP says, is there a way we can bring the goals from each end of this spectrum closer together?

You shouldn't worry too much about it, our goals will become closer as you play more dungeons. Right now you're a beautiful little fairy that takes in the surroundings, listens to the quest givers and fully enjoy the dungeon. I'm actually a bit jealous of you, as this is something I'm not able to do anymore.

Do not fear though, the moment you start farming the same dungeons 40+ times for certain set items, or the moment you're on alt #5, you'll change your mind very quickly. At that point you'll be happy if someone with high CP joins the game. From 12+ years of experience in MMOs, it always ends up like this.

You'll become one of us, you'll be a bit more jaded, but you'll use your time more efficiently.

AuldWolf

OP presents a clear argument as to why situations which involve forced grouping is an incredibly bad, toxic time for everyone involved. Something every MMO player knows but the developers still drag their feet with in order to try to attract a mythical demographic that doesn't exist. (Seriously, it doesn't. It never has. The game would be more popular and earn them more money if they allowed all content to scale down to one player.)

OP's solution involves CP points rather than removing forced grouping.

????????????????

There's either an ulterior motive, here, or the OP is very confused.

Merlin13KAGL

MrSensible wrote: »

So like the OP says, is there a way we can bring the goals from each end of this spectrum closer together?

You can use RDF for its intended purpose.

Not a fast clear. Not a slow clear.

Simply a clear.

You're using RDF to 'ask for help' and then trying to force your intent on the fourth person, which is complete ***.

You don't expect to be forced into a certain type of play, yet you're doing the same damn thing, just on the other end of the spectrum.

It's not about someone not following instructions, or not being capable in their role. It's about whether you're group has arbitrarily decided it's a good fit, and if not, you're using RDF as your own personal screening tool.

"Keep tossing them back until we get one we want."

• So, you can 3 man it by walking in the front door.
• You can find a like fourth, on a friends list, in zone chat, in guild.
• You can stop using RDF.
• Or you can take wth the RDF gives you and deal with it.

Because there are no extra checkboxes for Slow Run / Speed Run / Hard Mode/ CP min/max / spec achievement goal.

And being a *** on the other end of spectrum still makes one a ***, now doesn't it?

I give the same treatment to groups with other extra expectations, because it's ***.

And for the record, @Colecovision is probably taking it personal because what you're doing is wasting someone else's time and effort, something you and your group have no right to do.

MrSensible

AuldWolf wrote: »

OP presents a clear argument as to why situations which involve forced grouping is an incredibly bad, toxic time for everyone involved. Something every MMO player knows but the developers still drag their feet with in order to try to attract a mythical demographic that doesn't exist. (Seriously, it doesn't. It never has. The game would be more popular and earn them more money if they allowed all content to scale down to one player.)

OP's solution involves CP points rather than removing forced grouping.

????????????????

There's either an ulterior motive, here, or the OP is very confused.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here. You seem to have made the argument against MMOs in general. I like grouping, I like grouping with random people. I just want my goals to line up more often with that random person's.

And based on what others have said, it doesn't even seem like the discussion is possible, let alone a solution.

Voxicity

How about don't use group finder?

Call in a guild or zone chat for someone who wants to obey your rules?

Or just trio it?

Just because there are 3 of you vs 1 of them, doesn't give you any more right than he/she does to do the dungeon. In my opinion you're being selfish for using the group finder and wasting peoples' time just because they don't want to read through a quest they've already read 16,751 times

And people say the elites and high cp players are toxic...

Linaleah

MrSensible wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

OP presents a clear argument as to why situations which involve forced grouping is an incredibly bad, toxic time for everyone involved. Something every MMO player knows but the developers still drag their feet with in order to try to attract a mythical demographic that doesn't exist. (Seriously, it doesn't. It never has. The game would be more popular and earn them more money if they allowed all content to scale down to one player.)

OP's solution involves CP points rather than removing forced grouping.

????????????????

There's either an ulterior motive, here, or the OP is very confused.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here. You seem to have made the argument against MMOs in general. I like grouping, I like grouping with random people. I just want my goals to line up more often with that random person's.

And based on what others have said, it doesn't even seem like the discussion is possible, let alone a solution.

you are just unwilling to accept the solution offered to you.

why does it have to be random person slotted to you by automatic system? why can't it be a random person you found in zone chat, via zone channles when looking for someone with similar dungeon goals?

YOU.
CANNOT
MAKE
SOMEONE
CHANGE
THEIR
PREFERENCE.

solution is to find someone that SHARES your preference. and the means for that existed in MMO's since MMO's were a thing, LONG before automated dungeon finder was ever a thing.

your solution is staring you in a face, you simply refuse to accept it.

you can look for people who share your preferences and goals on the forums. there is a guild finder forum - you can start your own guild and make it all about your goals. you can use zone chat to look for your fourth.

what you can NOT do is force the system to do it for you without you making an effort to tailor your own gaming experience.

suddenly it occured to me that this whole argument is eerily similar to the whole "make the game harder, people who are not as good will just have to learn - we WANT the challenge" and the answer is still the same. it will make the game unfun to those other people and rather then adjust and "learn" to have fun? they will leave. this is not a job. this is not an necessity. it is a video game, something we do for fun. in general when something becomes less fun? people LEAVE.

Yinmaigao

Soooooooo much entitlement.

Grats on posting about how you are more important than anyone else, and aren't afraid to abuse the system to impose your will?

#ThatGuyIsPeopleToo

MerlinPendragon

Find a reliable 4th to play with.

VilniusNastavnik

MrSensible wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

OP presents a clear argument as to why situations which involve forced grouping is an incredibly bad, toxic time for everyone involved. Something every MMO player knows but the developers still drag their feet with in order to try to attract a mythical demographic that doesn't exist. (Seriously, it doesn't. It never has. The game would be more popular and earn them more money if they allowed all content to scale down to one player.)

OP's solution involves CP points rather than removing forced grouping.

????????????????

There's either an ulterior motive, here, or the OP is very confused.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here. You seem to have made the argument against MMOs in general. I like grouping, I like grouping with random people. I just want my goals to line up more often with that random person's.

And based on what others have said, it doesn't even seem like the discussion is possible, let alone a solution.

We've all given you the response you deserved. You can sit there with your head in the and screaming CNN FAKE NEWS! until you're blue in the face, but at the end of the day, you and your buddies are the a**hats at one end of the spectrum complaining about the veteran at the other end of the spectrum just trying to get his clear.

You said in OP that you and you're two buddies can 3 man all the dungeons on normal. As a result, there is no reason you need to use the dungeon finder if you want to do story content. Zos does not need to change a single thing except maybe doing something that entices more tanks into the dungeon finder. Tanks get an insta-queue. DPS wait half an hour or more. RGF is about clears not about finding RP buddies. You want RP buddies there is a place on the forum for that, or use Guild and Zone chat.

ll_Rev

MrSensible wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

OP presents a clear argument as to why situations which involve forced grouping is an incredibly bad, toxic time for everyone involved. Something every MMO player knows but the developers still drag their feet with in order to try to attract a mythical demographic that doesn't exist. (Seriously, it doesn't. It never has. The game would be more popular and earn them more money if they allowed all content to scale down to one player.)

OP's solution involves CP points rather than removing forced grouping.

????????????????

There's either an ulterior motive, here, or the OP is very confused.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here. You seem to have made the argument against MMOs in general. I like grouping, I like grouping with random people. I just want my goals to line up more often with that random person's.

And based on what others have said, it doesn't even seem like the discussion is possible, let alone a solution.

Funny how you skip Phage's comment because you can't even refute his points...

MrSensible

ll_Rev wrote: »

MrSensible wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

OP presents a clear argument as to why situations which involve forced grouping is an incredibly bad, toxic time for everyone involved. Something every MMO player knows but the developers still drag their feet with in order to try to attract a mythical demographic that doesn't exist. (Seriously, it doesn't. It never has. The game would be more popular and earn them more money if they allowed all content to scale down to one player.)

OP's solution involves CP points rather than removing forced grouping.

????????????????

There's either an ulterior motive, here, or the OP is very confused.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here. You seem to have made the argument against MMOs in general. I like grouping, I like grouping with random people. I just want my goals to line up more often with that random person's.

And based on what others have said, it doesn't even seem like the discussion is possible, let alone a solution.

Funny how you skip Phage's comment because you can't even refute his points...

Oh, I skipped it because I didn't see value in it and figured it would just derail the thread. I will continue to skip comments I feel do this. Deal with it.

Voxicity

MrSensible wrote: »

ll_Rev wrote: »

MrSensible wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

OP presents a clear argument as to why situations which involve forced grouping is an incredibly bad, toxic time for everyone involved. Something every MMO player knows but the developers still drag their feet with in order to try to attract a mythical demographic that doesn't exist. (Seriously, it doesn't. It never has. The game would be more popular and earn them more money if they allowed all content to scale down to one player.)

OP's solution involves CP points rather than removing forced grouping.

????????????????

There's either an ulterior motive, here, or the OP is very confused.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here. You seem to have made the argument against MMOs in general. I like grouping, I like grouping with random people. I just want my goals to line up more often with that random person's.

And based on what others have said, it doesn't even seem like the discussion is possible, let alone a solution.

Funny how you skip Phage's comment because you can't even refute his points...

Oh, I skipped it because I didn't see value in it and figured it would just derail the thread. I will continue to skip comments I feel do this. Deal with it.

Did mine derail the thread then? Or you realised it made complete sense and you couldn't argue against it?

VilniusNastavnik

MrSensible wrote: »

ll_Rev wrote: »

MrSensible wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

OP presents a clear argument as to why situations which involve forced grouping is an incredibly bad, toxic time for everyone involved. Something every MMO player knows but the developers still drag their feet with in order to try to attract a mythical demographic that doesn't exist. (Seriously, it doesn't. It never has. The game would be more popular and earn them more money if they allowed all content to scale down to one player.)

OP's solution involves CP points rather than removing forced grouping.

????????????????

There's either an ulterior motive, here, or the OP is very confused.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here. You seem to have made the argument against MMOs in general. I like grouping, I like grouping with random people. I just want my goals to line up more often with that random person's.

And based on what others have said, it doesn't even seem like the discussion is possible, let alone a solution.

Funny how you skip Phage's comment because you can't even refute his points...

Oh, I skipped it because I didn't see value in it and figured it would just derail the thread. I will continue to skip comments I feel do this. Deal with it.

OP:

Juju_beans

MrSensible wrote: »

Which brings us to the real point of this thread.

TL;DR
"A kick happens when people's goals don't line up." - Some Smart Guy On ESO Forums in Another Thread
How do we get people's goals to line up better in random dungeon groups? Right now, they usually don't seem to line up at all. Dungeons aren't designed for That Guy. It's not That Guys fault he has too much CP or is too good at the game. How do we give That Guy more challenge? And should ZOS even care?

You don't. What you do is take the time to find a 4th in zone that meets your "criteria" and queue together.

Linaleah

and just to clarify something, OP. no one is telling you that you are enjoying the game wrong. NO one. its absolutely your prerogative to enjoy dungeons the way that you prefer. what IS wrong is you trying to force YOUR way of enjoyment on OTHER people who have different preferences.

you think removing cp will change how people run dungeons? it will not. there will still be people who want to finish the place as quickly as possible, and there will be people who want to hang back and smell the roses.

now. mind you. I would LOVE it if dungeons had solo option, just to see the story.

don't care if they have zero rewards. but the moment you add other people into equation.. if you all want to be on the same page, random finder is NOT the way to do that.

Yinmaigao

MrSensible wrote: »

ll_Rev wrote: »

MrSensible wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

OP presents a clear argument as to why situations which involve forced grouping is an incredibly bad, toxic time for everyone involved. Something every MMO player knows but the developers still drag their feet with in order to try to attract a mythical demographic that doesn't exist. (Seriously, it doesn't. It never has. The game would be more popular and earn them more money if they allowed all content to scale down to one player.)

OP's solution involves CP points rather than removing forced grouping.

????????????????

There's either an ulterior motive, here, or the OP is very confused.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here. You seem to have made the argument against MMOs in general. I like grouping, I like grouping with random people. I just want my goals to line up more often with that random person's.

And based on what others have said, it doesn't even seem like the discussion is possible, let alone a solution.

Funny how you skip Phage's comment because you can't even refute his points...

Oh, I skipped it because I didn't see value in it and figured it would just derail the thread. I will continue to skip comments I feel do this. Deal with it.

Fundamentally, I agree with some of your points... however, they way you present your argument is going to turn off a LOT of people...

Kuwhar

MrSensible wrote: »

This is going to be a discussion about CP balance, dungeon balance, and balancing player goals.

I play ESO primarily with two friends who I've known for a long time. We all played at launch, but quickly got bored with the game and quit. 4 years later (about a month ago now) we all decided to get back into it and give it another shot. Primarily, we love to do dungeons together and have worked our way through all the normal dungeon story content. I rolled tank, one rolled dps, and one rolled healer (we didn't plan this, it just sort of happened).

First, let me say that the game is a lot better today than it was 4 years ago. And I think the ZOS team has done an amazing job. Secondly, I think every dungeon is beautifully designed and PERFECTLY tuned, however, this tuning is oddly specific (which I will get into later).

But first, let's talk about the guy we have had to kick from 90% of our dungeon runs. Because there's only three of us, and we use the dungeon finder often, we end up with a random fourth. Our pickup, more often than not, fits the following criteria:

1. Doesn't care that WE want to do the story quest in the dungeon and just wants to speed through at warp 9.
2. Pulls enemies while we talk to NPCs.
3. Rushes head first into every pull (in light armor) then expects me to pull aggro off of them.
4. Stands in every red circle ever.
5. Cries when he/she dies from the above things.
6. Has 8 billion champion points.

Going forward, I shall refer to the above hypothetical player as "That Guy".

Now let's talk about the difficulty tuning of a simple dungeon like Fungal Grotto. FG-Normal can be sleep-walked through in 15 minutes by a 750CP sorcerer who is spamming lightning splash, while eating his dinner and watching Rick and Morty. FG-Normal provides no challenge for That Guy. And in terms of fun-value, offers him nothing at all. It is not designed for That Guy. It never has been and never will be.

So, who is FG-Normal designed for? Well, as I said, the tuning is perfect and is very specific. It's designed for fresh level 10-15s, who are still learning how to interrupt, have 3 abilities on their skill bar (maybe don't even have an ultimate yet) and are wearing greens and white gear. And you know what? It is the PERFECT difficulty level for that specific goal. We ended up kicking That Guy from our FG-Normal group, and 3-manned the rest in our white, level 10 gear, and had a blast.

Additionally, I would daresay that all normal dungeons are actually tuned for 3-manning. As we have had to kick That Guy 90% of the time, we have 3-manned almost every normal dungeon. And the difficulty has always felt juuuuust right. I would like to give special mention to ICP and Mazzatun - which were the most fun 3-mans we had. They were absolutely amazing. Some of the best dungeons I have ever done in an MMO. They were perfectly tuned for 3 CP100s (and were not at all tuned for That Guy), had awesome boss fights with fun mechanics, and had great quests with interesting characters.

And look, I get it, I really do. That Guy is on his 150th run through Fungal Grotto. He only queued up so he could do his daily or so he could farm some obscure piece of equipment to complete his armor collection. Or maybe That Guy has a LOT of fun just steamrolling through content like a Mac Truck through an ice cream stand. I don't know. And to be honest, I really don't care. Because me and my friends don't. We want to DO the dungeon quests. We want to figure out the fights (which doesn't mean: watch a youtube video or read a guide). And we definitely DON'T want to be carried through by That Guy because he can ignore 99% of the mechanics due to his CP level.

The last thing I wanted to talk about is that other 10%. The other 10% of the time, we get a guy who falls right within our level range. Or, he has a ton of CP, but doesn't meet the above criteria. We ran White-Gold Tower Normal with a guy who hadn't beat it after owning it for 3 years (how is that even possible?). He had 750 CP and did NONE of the things that That Guy does. He was awesome. We had a blast with him, and added him to friends.

Which brings us to the real point of this thread.

TL;DR
"A kick happens when people's goals don't line up." - Some Smart Guy On ESO Forums in Another Thread
How do we get people's goals to line up better in random dungeon groups? Right now, they usually don't seem to line up at all. Dungeons aren't designed for That Guy. It's not That Guys fault he has too much CP or is too good at the game. How do we give That Guy more challenge? And should ZOS even care?

Man, i wish i could roll with you guys. Sounds exactly the style i like to go.

My pet peeve is people literaly sprinting ahead of me (when im tanking) constantly, aggroing everything. And i barely have time to loot.

As you said, I get it, That guy is on his 100th run and wants to get it done but is rushing ahead really making it THAT much faster? What does it save, 5 mins? 10 tops?

On top of that is peoples weird expectations, like you have to be 300cp to do a vet? Few guildies and I did a "fun run" through vCoA HM, we wiped 4 times in total?

In the end we got it done with me as cp 76 templar tank.

Kinda off topic my bad, just pointing out not everything has to be "uber hyper awesome 50k DPS" to be fun or worthwhile.

So yeah OP shoot me a message id love to give it a go with you guys

BRCOURTN

MrSensible wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

So the rest of the forum makes many of us too uncomfortable to queue for not being good enough. CP750 and I still haven't queued for anything I can't solo. Now, I find out that I am also am the problem if I can solo it. nFG1 is about a 10 minute solo at this point. So that's bad now too.

I guess as long as I'm not good or bad or casual or hardcore or slow or in a hurry, then I can play? Awesome sauce.

Do Tamriel a favor and find your fourth guy in zone or guild chat or even here. There are lots of people that wish they had a group like yours. You are in an odd situation where you can be a great guy, by finding that lucky person who wants a group but not the pressure, or you can be a total jerk by kicking someone because they don't fit your preconceived group. Being nice is an extra effort, but I certainly hope you choose that.

I'm not sure if this was a joke post or not.

You seem to have taken my post as bizarrely personal. The OP is about bridging the gap between two very drastic ends of the spectrum with regards to dungeon content, hopefully giving more longevity and quality to the overall dungeon experience.

My friends and I give every person a chance when we start up a dungeon. We inform them that we want to do the quest (if it is our first time there). We usually know right away if it'll work out. The person will say something like "cool, me too" or "NP". Or they will say nothing at all, which is usually followed by them pulling 3 groups of mobs. 5 minutes later That Guy is back in Rawl'Kha.

It has been suggested by you and several others already that we should just stop using the Group Finder. I mean that's not going to happen. You know it, I know it. Everyone knows it. But let's just say that I did. You have to know that I'm not the only one with the issue described in the OP. There are others who will also continue. So like the OP says, is there a way we can bring the goals from each end of this spectrum closer together?

I mean, That Guy won't be back in Rawl'Kha 5 minutes later because he'll probably be done with his random dungeon. If you kick him, he gets no timer and can queue immediately. You haven't provided an answer as to why you won't just travel to the dungeons with your two other friends instead of using group finder. If you need to do each dungeon quest thoroughly, then do them that way the first time and use the dungeon finder for the 2nd, 3rd, or 80th time when you now know the story and don't care about anything other than the completion.

Many others have stated that the only thing people in dungeon finder should be looking for is dungeon completion. If there are other people out there who share your same concerns as you've stated, then form a guild, recruit them, and you can all stop complaining about people going through random dungeons too fast.

I just don't understand why you would queue at all if 3 people is the "perfect" amount for completing normal dungeons. If you need the daily exp, then just be okay with getting one dungeon a day done in 10 minutes. That's all my opinion of course, you'll keep playing how you play. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Aluneth

Kuwhar wrote: »

As you said, I get it, That guy is on his 100th run and wants to get it done but is rushing ahead really making it THAT much faster? What does it save, 5 mins? 10 tops?

That's 5-10 minutes per dungeon you're saving. You can complete quite a few dungeons in 10 minutes. I'll get 8-10 dungeons completed at the time you'll get 4-5. That is a huge difference, and very time inefficient.

Thunderknuckles

What it comes down to, that so many don't seem willing to bend to, is people being patient with who they get grouped with in DF. I'll use my own group of folks as an example. When it's just 3 of us (all at CP cap and beyond) we strive to be very friendly with whoever we pick up. What we often run into is someone who only has 5 minutes to run a dungeon and they get annoyed with us because we're not speed racing through it.

I got a whisper from one of these types recently who said, "If you want to go slower get a group of your own and stop wasting my time." I bolded "my" for a reason. "MY" time....that player sees everything as revolving around them. I informed them that they were actually the pug and the rest of us were, in fact, grouped together. Incidentally, we actually weren't plodding along by any means, this person just wanted to blaze through it. That's a huge problem. Way too many players are so self absorbed that they can only see things from their own perspective. They feel the game, and you, revolve around them and it never occurs to them that they're extremely wrong about this.

We DO kick jack wagons like this. We don't need'em, anyway. If you're cool, though, and especially friendly we'll even invite you to run other dungeons with us. Act like a spoiled brat royalty baby and we'll kick you straight to the curb. Have fun, DPS, waiting in queue for another 3 hours.

Yinmaigao

BRCOURTN wrote: »

MrSensible wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

So the rest of the forum makes many of us too uncomfortable to queue for not being good enough. CP750 and I still haven't queued for anything I can't solo. Now, I find out that I am also am the problem if I can solo it. nFG1 is about a 10 minute solo at this point. So that's bad now too.

I guess as long as I'm not good or bad or casual or hardcore or slow or in a hurry, then I can play? Awesome sauce.

Do Tamriel a favor and find your fourth guy in zone or guild chat or even here. There are lots of people that wish they had a group like yours. You are in an odd situation where you can be a great guy, by finding that lucky person who wants a group but not the pressure, or you can be a total jerk by kicking someone because they don't fit your preconceived group. Being nice is an extra effort, but I certainly hope you choose that.

I'm not sure if this was a joke post or not.

You seem to have taken my post as bizarrely personal. The OP is about bridging the gap between two very drastic ends of the spectrum with regards to dungeon content, hopefully giving more longevity and quality to the overall dungeon experience.

My friends and I give every person a chance when we start up a dungeon. We inform them that we want to do the quest (if it is our first time there). We usually know right away if it'll work out. The person will say something like "cool, me too" or "NP". Or they will say nothing at all, which is usually followed by them pulling 3 groups of mobs. 5 minutes later That Guy is back in Rawl'Kha.

It has been suggested by you and several others already that we should just stop using the Group Finder. I mean that's not going to happen. You know it, I know it. Everyone knows it. But let's just say that I did. You have to know that I'm not the only one with the issue described in the OP. There are others who will also continue. So like the OP says, is there a way we can bring the goals from each end of this spectrum closer together?

You haven't provided an answer as to why you won't just travel to the dungeons with your two other friends instead of using group finder.

Isn't it obvious?

They want the random dungeon finder rewards, but don't want to compromise their play style. They want all the benefits, none of the "negatives".

DarcyMardin

I hate running into that guy, too. I’d be in your 10 percent. Yeah, I’m maxed on CP and have been here since beta, but I always ask at the start of a dungeon if anyone needs the quest (usually they don’t bother to answer, but take off full speed ahead). I don’t like chasing people thru dungeons, so I usually just duo them with my husband.

Others have suggested that one solution might be for ZOS to implement a “quest and skill point” option for all the dungeons. Then those of us who aren’t speed demons could move at a leisurely pace, pay attention to the mechanics, and actually have the chance to turn in the quest before everyone else has exited & force-closed the dungeon. I would love to have this choice!

MLGProPlayer

EDIT:Just realised you're talking about normal dungeons.

Enslaved

On the one hand, u r right to kick someone who breaks ur play as u want moment. on the other hand, u cant dictate others how to play. I would advise u find a 4th player with same ideas how dungeons should be done. U will not have to kick anyone and will enjoy more.

Seri

MrSensible wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Why does an OP that states it has to do with CP balance, dungeon balance have anything to do with bad or annoying players. That list there has nothing to do with either of those two topic./

That Guy doesn't behave that way because he's a bad or annoying player. He behaves that way because he has no reason not to. This, in my opinion, is a combination result of CP imbalance/dungeon balance and the goals that people have when they queue up. If you had read the rest of the post, you would know this. Hell, even the TL;DR tells you this.

I disagree - by that logic, everyone would queue random normals and act that way. 'That Guy' behaves that way because he just wants to complete the dungeon ASAP for his own personal (selfish?) reasons. I sometimes queue normals, but if I do I check if anyone is on story and ensure they don't get left behind (even though I would like to get through without spending an hour in there).

abigfishy

I feel your pain. My tip would be to say right at the start something like, "We haven't done this dungeon before and will be listening to all the quest dialog so if that doesn't suit you we are happy to kick you so that you don't get a 15 minute penalty." 75% of people would just be happy to stay at your pace or leave. (25% of people never respond to anything no matter what happens.)

abigfishy

krachall wrote: »

Aluneth wrote: »

This is perfectly fine. You're the type of guy that I kick from my groups, so it balances it out.

When I've speed-run a random normal with a pug, I get "that was awesome, thanks!" more than anything else.

Yes, unless all three players then leave while the fourth player is trying to finish the quest.

xeNNNNN

idk wrote: »

MrSensible wrote: »

This is going to be a discussion about CP balance, dungeon balance, and balancing player goals.

1. Doesn't care that WE want to do the story quest in the dungeon and just wants to speed through at warp 9.
2. Pulls enemies while we talk to NPCs.
3. Rushes head first into every pull (in light armor) then expects me to pull aggro off of them.
4. Stands in every red circle ever.
5. Cries when he/she dies from the above things.

?

Why does an OP that states it has to do with CP balance, dungeon balance have anything to do with bad or annoying players. That list there has nothing to do with either of those two topic./

Edit; after skimming through the rest, it seems like you and your band of merry players should just not bother with the GF. It seems like you can handle the normal dungeons yourself but are also wanting a very specific type of person joining you.

You will probably enjoy it more.

The OP also stated "balancing player goals" which you apparently missed.

Player goals can and does involve the wants and desires of the player base itself whether it be snobby elitists who ruin content for everyone but their high and mighty selves or the average person who doesn't care what others want and then of course the OP in question who just wants to experience the game without the need to blaze through content seemingly for not themselves. Its all one overarching connected issue.

disintegr8

Phage wrote: »

So what I'm seeing is you queued into LFG, saw That Guy, and you discriminated against him and kicked from your group, even though he hadn't been a jerk etc.

Here's the question: Why even queue into LFG? If your awesomesauce 3-man is sooo good, why not just travel to the dungeon yourselves?

Don't queue into LFG and then get on your high horse. People of all sorts queue into LFG, and they are all just as entitled to run in LFG. You have zero right to kick someone just because they don't meet the standards of your sight-seeing slowroll 3-man. We've run those dungeons a thousand times or more, and you're wasting other peoples time and yours by queuing into something and kicking people when you can do it by yourselves.

TL;DR
Don't queue into LFG with your slowroll 3-man if you're going to kick people who don't play the way you wanna play.

It doesn't make you the good guy. It makes you the ***.

I disagree with you. There is no reason why a cp750 player can not look at the group they are with and accommodate them. It's very easy to see if someone is picking up the quest and if you don't want to wait for 'questers', because they are too slow, leave the group.

For every group like the OP's, there are also solo players using group finder who are in the same position. Sure, some of them like being carried by OP cp750's storming through a delve in 5 minutes. But some also want to see and learn the mechanics, do the quest, try and find chests and heavy sacks.

The group finder is there for everyone to use and 'belongs' to the speed demon no more than it 'belongs' to the slow quester.

MrSensible

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

What it comes down to, that so many don't seem willing to bend to, is people being patient with who they get grouped with in DF. I'll use my own group of folks as an example. When it's just 3 of us (all at CP cap and beyond) we strive to be very friendly with whoever we pick up. What we often run into is someone who only has 5 minutes to run a dungeon and they get annoyed with us because we're not speed racing through it.

I got a whisper from one of these types recently who said, "If you want to go slower get a group of your own and stop wasting my time." I bolded "my" for a reason. "MY" time....that player sees everything as revolving around them. I informed them that they were actually the pug and the rest of us were, in fact, grouped together. Incidentally, we actually weren't plodding along by any means, this person just wanted to blaze through it. That's a huge problem. Way too many players are so self absorbed that they can only see things from their own perspective. They feel the game, and you, revolve around them and it never occurs to them that they're extremely wrong about this.

We DO kick jack wagons like this. We don't need'em, anyway. If you're cool, though, and especially friendly we'll even invite you to run other dungeons with us. Act like a spoiled brat royalty baby and we'll kick you straight to the curb. Have fun, DPS, waiting in queue for another 3 hours.

You're largely correct here, and this has been my experience most of the time. I am even guilty of it in my original example. Some people are real cool about it, and we end up grouping with them because we all adjust our expectations. The thing is, it's very hard (read: impossible) to change people and the way they act with each other. But what can be done is incentivizing people to behave differently. If That Guy was rewarded for behaving in a different manner, he just might. It wouldn't work for everyone. No one solution possibly could.

What kind of reward though? I have no idea.