The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
A rally for AD to drop Shor and come back to Vivec PC NA
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chris211✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »The EP zergs in the evenings have been real. The numbers you see showing up to take the ring keeps at night are nearly always overwhelming.
There’s zero pressure anymore from AD, EP population needs to be reduced after hours, or more people need to play AD, they need the most help.
I’ve got to ask, what’s the fun of playing with no opposition? 18 guys showing to to kill 2 people trying to take a resource? We escaped, one or two of you died. Did you really enjoy that? All 18 of you? Did any of you consider playing yellow or even blue?
Map dies about the same time every night, and it's bloody awful to see.
Sadly the incentive is to take more keeps, in the form of quests and o ticks. The average pug will continue to do this and log after a couple hours play, feeling good about taking half the map and feeling important.
I don't agree with it, sometimes I do tag along for the AP too if it's dead quiet, cos there's simply nothing else to do and it's only 8pm my time.
The obvious solution is for the other factions to bring more to counter. So far this week, that has been happening. I don't see it staying EP dominated for long.
Try spinning up a yellow toon. If you’re just running with the stupid 70 man EP horde PVDooring everything, you are the problem. Not just a part of it. Take some responsibility!
I have an AD alt I played back when the map was all blue.
i refuse to make a ad toon
Because... you’re better than they are?
Because... you enjoy running with 70 people pvdooring the map? Is that compelling gameplay?
I think the campaign buffs have it all wrong, they reward the faction that zergs the map and sits on either 5 keeps or Emperor.
There’s no incentive to play the outnumbered faction that’s two pop bars behind the others. Add in a ‘hopelessly outnumbered’ buff as an incentive to actually play the one bar faction.
Personally, I refuse to make an AD or DC toon because:
A. I'm an EP loyalist, win or lose
B. I'm in an EP only PVP guild, again, for EP win or lose
C. I'm in a second guild that I use for trading that also only does EP PVP win or lose but that frowns on fighting guildies in PVP
D. 8 out of 11 of my characters are EP and the other three were made before 1 Tamriel or they'd have been EP too.
E. I've been PVPing for EP for about a year and a half now, on PC/NA Haderus, Trueflame, Shor, and now Vivec.
I've PVPed for EP win or lose, so I hope you can understand why I'm not about to swap to a different alliance just because EP is currently dominant. I'm faction loyal, and while other players can go cross-faction "to find good fights" or what have you if they want to, I'm going to keep shedding blood for the Pact.
Call me part of the problem if you want because I don't do cross-faction PVP for AD or DC, but I fought for EP before we were dominant and I'll keep fighting once we aren't anymore. Win or lose, I'm still having a ton of fun PVPing and playing the map for the Pact. Hope you can understand my perspective.
^1 -
courier✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »The EP zergs in the evenings have been real. The numbers you see showing up to take the ring keeps at night are nearly always overwhelming.
There’s zero pressure anymore from AD, EP population needs to be reduced after hours, or more people need to play AD, they need the most help.
I’ve got to ask, what’s the fun of playing with no opposition? 18 guys showing to to kill 2 people trying to take a resource? We escaped, one or two of you died. Did you really enjoy that? All 18 of you? Did any of you consider playing yellow or even blue?
Map dies about the same time every night, and it's bloody awful to see.
Sadly the incentive is to take more keeps, in the form of quests and o ticks. The average pug will continue to do this and log after a couple hours play, feeling good about taking half the map and feeling important.
I don't agree with it, sometimes I do tag along for the AP too if it's dead quiet, cos there's simply nothing else to do and it's only 8pm my time.
The obvious solution is for the other factions to bring more to counter. So far this week, that has been happening. I don't see it staying EP dominated for long.
Try spinning up a yellow toon. If you’re just running with the stupid 70 man EP horde PVDooring everything, you are the problem. Not just a part of it. Take some responsibility!
I have an AD alt I played back when the map was all blue.
i refuse to make a ad toon
Because... you’re better than they are?
Because... you enjoy running with 70 people pvdooring the map? Is that compelling gameplay?
I think the campaign buffs have it all wrong, they reward the faction that zergs the map and sits on either 5 keeps or Emperor.
There’s no incentive to play the outnumbered faction that’s two pop bars behind the others. Add in a ‘hopelessly outnumbered’ buff as an incentive to actually play the one bar faction.
Personally, I refuse to make an AD or DC toon because:
A. I'm an EP loyalist, win or lose
B. I'm in an EP only PVP guild, again, for EP win or lose
C. I'm in a second guild that I use for trading that also only does EP PVP win or lose but that frowns on fighting guildies in PVP
D. 8 out of 11 of my characters are EP and the other three were made before 1 Tamriel or they'd have been EP too.
E. I've been PVPing for EP for about a year and a half now, on PC/NA Haderus, Trueflame, Shor, and now Vivec.
I've PVPed for EP win or lose, so I hope you can understand why I'm not about to swap to a different alliance just because EP is currently dominant. I'm faction loyal, and while other players can go cross-faction "to find good fights" or what have you if they want to, I'm going to keep shedding blood for the Pact.
Call me part of the problem if you want because I don't do cross-faction PVP for AD or DC, but I fought for EP before we were dominant and I'll keep fighting once we aren't anymore. Win or lose, I'm still having a ton of fun PVPing and playing the map for the Pact. Hope you can understand my perspective.
I was the exact same way, and I still love EP. I understand your logic completely and totally...In the same token, if you have a 7000 point lead, is that really fun? I mean I get it, we all like to win, we all love that AP for one reason or another, but to push the other players to the point of not even wanting to log in... I think that's a bit excessive. That's why I decided to swap over and give them a hand, and shockingly, AD are generally super nice folks.. I was impressed with the warm welcomes both myself and my wife received.
7 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »The EP zergs in the evenings have been real. The numbers you see showing up to take the ring keeps at night are nearly always overwhelming.
There’s zero pressure anymore from AD, EP population needs to be reduced after hours, or more people need to play AD, they need the most help.
I’ve got to ask, what’s the fun of playing with no opposition? 18 guys showing to to kill 2 people trying to take a resource? We escaped, one or two of you died. Did you really enjoy that? All 18 of you? Did any of you consider playing yellow or even blue?
Map dies about the same time every night, and it's bloody awful to see.
Sadly the incentive is to take more keeps, in the form of quests and o ticks. The average pug will continue to do this and log after a couple hours play, feeling good about taking half the map and feeling important.
I don't agree with it, sometimes I do tag along for the AP too if it's dead quiet, cos there's simply nothing else to do and it's only 8pm my time.
The obvious solution is for the other factions to bring more to counter. So far this week, that has been happening. I don't see it staying EP dominated for long.
Try spinning up a yellow toon. If you’re just running with the stupid 70 man EP horde PVDooring everything, you are the problem. Not just a part of it. Take some responsibility!
I have an AD alt I played back when the map was all blue.
i refuse to make a ad toon
Because... you’re better than they are?
Because... you enjoy running with 70 people pvdooring the map? Is that compelling gameplay?
I think the campaign buffs have it all wrong, they reward the faction that zergs the map and sits on either 5 keeps or Emperor.
There’s no incentive to play the outnumbered faction that’s two pop bars behind the others. Add in a ‘hopelessly outnumbered’ buff as an incentive to actually play the one bar faction.
Personally, I refuse to make an AD or DC toon because:
A. I'm an EP loyalist, win or lose
B. I'm in an EP only PVP guild, again, for EP win or lose
C. I'm in a second guild that I use for trading that also only does EP PVP win or lose but that frowns on fighting guildies in PVP
D. 8 out of 11 of my characters are EP and the other three were made before 1 Tamriel or they'd have been EP too.
E. I've been PVPing for EP for about a year and a half now, on PC/NA Haderus, Trueflame, Shor, and now Vivec.
I've PVPed for EP win or lose, so I hope you can understand why I'm not about to swap to a different alliance just because EP is currently dominant. I'm faction loyal, and while other players can go cross-faction "to find good fights" or what have you if they want to, I'm going to keep shedding blood for the Pact.
Call me part of the problem if you want because I don't do cross-faction PVP for AD or DC, but I fought for EP before we were dominant and I'll keep fighting once we aren't anymore. Win or lose, I'm still having a ton of fun PVPing and playing the map for the Pact. Hope you can understand my perspective.
I was the exact same way, and I still love EP. I understand your logic completely and totally...In the same token, if you have a 7000 point lead, is that really fun? I mean I get it, we all like to win, we all love that AP for one reason or another, but to push the other players to the point of not even wanting to log in... I think that's a bit excessive. That's why I decided to swap over and give them a hand, and shockingly, AD are generally super nice folks.. I was impressed with the warm welcomes both myself and my wife received.
Actually, yeah, I'm still having fun. Why not? In the mornings, AD and DC are still fighting hard. I still get to defend and capture keeps and play the map. In the evenings, AD and DC are still fighting hard (many of them the same AD and DC I fought before Summerset). I still get to defend and capture keeps and play the map. Every morning or primetime evening I've been out in Vivec, there have been plenty of good fights to be had even while I'm playing the map and fighting for the objectives. EP might be curbstomping everyone in the score, but the fights to get to that point haven't been curbstomps because AD and DC certainly don't roll over and play dead during a fight.
If you want to swap to AD to help them out, that's fine for you. Glad to hear AD welcomed you. I certainly understand why you and others swapped factions. I don't intend to - for all the reasons listed above - and I'm still getting a ton of great fights and having fun every time I log on to play in Vivec to loyally play for EP, win or lose, as I have for the last year and a half.
I guess its the flip-side of all the "How dare people be cross-faction players?!" complaint posts that now people are complaining about people sticking on the winning side. In my opinion, its one thing to complain about fair-weather EP players who only swapped to the winning faction. But the point I was trying to make in part is that some of us are quite loyal to EP, and in my case, I dislike being told that my loyalty to my faction is suddenly detrimental to the game now that my faction is dominant for only two whole campaigns (not that you were saying that, just, that's more of a general feeling I get from some of the comments in this chain.) Especially when give it a couple of months and the scales will probably shift back to complaining about cross-faction players and calls for faction loyalty again.
I understand the motivations of those who faction swapped. I appreciate your understanding of why I'm faction loyal, even when my faction is dominating. If I'm honest, I wish more people were faction loyal and stuck by their faction whether AD, DC or EP, win or lose, but I realize that doesn't work for everyone.1 -
Elong✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The EP zergs in the evenings have been real. The numbers you see showing up to take the ring keeps at night are nearly always overwhelming.
There’s zero pressure anymore from AD, EP population needs to be reduced after hours, or more people need to play AD, they need the most help.
I’ve got to ask, what’s the fun of playing with no opposition? 18 guys showing to to kill 2 people trying to take a resource? We escaped, one or two of you died. Did you really enjoy that? All 18 of you? Did any of you consider playing yellow or even blue?
Map dies about the same time every night, and it's bloody awful to see.
Sadly the incentive is to take more keeps, in the form of quests and o ticks. The average pug will continue to do this and log after a couple hours play, feeling good about taking half the map and feeling important.
I don't agree with it, sometimes I do tag along for the AP too if it's dead quiet, cos there's simply nothing else to do and it's only 8pm my time.
The obvious solution is for the other factions to bring more to counter. So far this week, that has been happening. I don't see it staying EP dominated for long.
Try spinning up a yellow toon. If you’re just running with the stupid 70 man EP horde PVDooring everything, you are the problem. Not just a part of it. Take some responsibility!
I have an AD alt I played back when the map was all blue.
i refuse to make a ad toon
Because... you’re better than they are?
Because... you enjoy running with 70 people pvdooring the map? Is that compelling gameplay?
I think the campaign buffs have it all wrong, they reward the faction that zergs the map and sits on either 5 keeps or Emperor.
There’s no incentive to play the outnumbered faction that’s two pop bars behind the others. Add in a ‘hopelessly outnumbered’ buff as an incentive to actually play the one bar faction.
It's like you deliberately didn't read my reply and decided to keep spreading false information.1 -
WaltherCarraway✭✭✭✭✭double postEdited by WaltherCarraway on June 10, 2018 3:51PMBack from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.0 -
WaltherCarraway✭✭✭✭✭double post... idkEdited by WaltherCarraway on June 10, 2018 4:21PMBack from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.0
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »The EP zergs in the evenings have been real. The numbers you see showing up to take the ring keeps at night are nearly always overwhelming.
There’s zero pressure anymore from AD, EP population needs to be reduced after hours, or more people need to play AD, they need the most help.
I’ve got to ask, what’s the fun of playing with no opposition? 18 guys showing to to kill 2 people trying to take a resource? We escaped, one or two of you died. Did you really enjoy that? All 18 of you? Did any of you consider playing yellow or even blue?
Map dies about the same time every night, and it's bloody awful to see.
Sadly the incentive is to take more keeps, in the form of quests and o ticks. The average pug will continue to do this and log after a couple hours play, feeling good about taking half the map and feeling important.
I don't agree with it, sometimes I do tag along for the AP too if it's dead quiet, cos there's simply nothing else to do and it's only 8pm my time.
The obvious solution is for the other factions to bring more to counter. So far this week, that has been happening. I don't see it staying EP dominated for long.
Try spinning up a yellow toon. If you’re just running with the stupid 70 man EP horde PVDooring everything, you are the problem. Not just a part of it. Take some responsibility!
I have an AD alt I played back when the map was all blue.
i refuse to make a ad toon
Because... you’re better than they are?
Because... you enjoy running with 70 people pvdooring the map? Is that compelling gameplay?
I think the campaign buffs have it all wrong, they reward the faction that zergs the map and sits on either 5 keeps or Emperor.
There’s no incentive to play the outnumbered faction that’s two pop bars behind the others. Add in a ‘hopelessly outnumbered’ buff as an incentive to actually play the one bar faction.
Personally, I refuse to make an AD or DC toon because:
A. I'm an EP loyalist, win or lose
B. I'm in an EP only PVP guild, again, for EP win or lose
C. I'm in a second guild that I use for trading that also only does EP PVP win or lose but that frowns on fighting guildies in PVP
D. 8 out of 11 of my characters are EP and the other three were made before 1 Tamriel or they'd have been EP too.
E. I've been PVPing for EP for about a year and a half now, on PC/NA Haderus, Trueflame, Shor, and now Vivec.
I've PVPed for EP win or lose, so I hope you can understand why I'm not about to swap to a different alliance just because EP is currently dominant. I'm faction loyal, and while other players can go cross-faction "to find good fights" or what have you if they want to, I'm going to keep shedding blood for the Pact.
Call me part of the problem if you want because I don't do cross-faction PVP for AD or DC, but I fought for EP before we were dominant and I'll keep fighting once we aren't anymore. Win or lose, I'm still having a ton of fun PVPing and playing the map for the Pact. Hope you can understand my perspective.
I sort of get it, and a lot of people think like you do, die hard faction loyalists. Role players, etc..
I don’t see it that way, I see other gamers playing a video game, one color or another doesn’t really matter, and it’s less fun playing AD most of the time because of low population most of the week.
Fact is, many of the AD players got sick of being farmed, being 8000 points in the rear, owning three keeps for most of the day that are sieged the whole time, etc. So many jumped campaigns or just decided to play EP alts. Like you said, everyone likes to ‘win’. Even if it’s not really ‘winning’ so much as taking mostly undefended keeps from factions that can’t hope to compete.
I want YOU to understand that it’s bad for the health of the campaign, and this is just a silly mini-game. It’s not an e-sport. The ‘pact’ isn’t real. And there are some really cool players in the other factions that are just as fun to fight along with. I don’t get upset when a different faction friend kills me, that’s the cross faction mentality.
3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »The EP zergs in the evenings have been real. The numbers you see showing up to take the ring keeps at night are nearly always overwhelming.
There’s zero pressure anymore from AD, EP population needs to be reduced after hours, or more people need to play AD, they need the most help.
I’ve got to ask, what’s the fun of playing with no opposition? 18 guys showing to to kill 2 people trying to take a resource? We escaped, one or two of you died. Did you really enjoy that? All 18 of you? Did any of you consider playing yellow or even blue?
Map dies about the same time every night, and it's bloody awful to see.
Sadly the incentive is to take more keeps, in the form of quests and o ticks. The average pug will continue to do this and log after a couple hours play, feeling good about taking half the map and feeling important.
I don't agree with it, sometimes I do tag along for the AP too if it's dead quiet, cos there's simply nothing else to do and it's only 8pm my time.
The obvious solution is for the other factions to bring more to counter. So far this week, that has been happening. I don't see it staying EP dominated for long.
Try spinning up a yellow toon. If you’re just running with the stupid 70 man EP horde PVDooring everything, you are the problem. Not just a part of it. Take some responsibility!
I have an AD alt I played back when the map was all blue.
i refuse to make a ad toon
Because... you’re better than they are?
Because... you enjoy running with 70 people pvdooring the map? Is that compelling gameplay?
I think the campaign buffs have it all wrong, they reward the faction that zergs the map and sits on either 5 keeps or Emperor.
There’s no incentive to play the outnumbered faction that’s two pop bars behind the others. Add in a ‘hopelessly outnumbered’ buff as an incentive to actually play the one bar faction.
Personally, I refuse to make an AD or DC toon because:
A. I'm an EP loyalist, win or lose
B. I'm in an EP only PVP guild, again, for EP win or lose
C. I'm in a second guild that I use for trading that also only does EP PVP win or lose but that frowns on fighting guildies in PVP
D. 8 out of 11 of my characters are EP and the other three were made before 1 Tamriel or they'd have been EP too.
E. I've been PVPing for EP for about a year and a half now, on PC/NA Haderus, Trueflame, Shor, and now Vivec.
I've PVPed for EP win or lose, so I hope you can understand why I'm not about to swap to a different alliance just because EP is currently dominant. I'm faction loyal, and while other players can go cross-faction "to find good fights" or what have you if they want to, I'm going to keep shedding blood for the Pact.
Call me part of the problem if you want because I don't do cross-faction PVP for AD or DC, but I fought for EP before we were dominant and I'll keep fighting once we aren't anymore. Win or lose, I'm still having a ton of fun PVPing and playing the map for the Pact. Hope you can understand my perspective.
I sort of get it, and a lot of people think like you do, die hard faction loyalists. Role players, etc..
I don’t see it that way, I see other gamers playing a video game, one color or another doesn’t really matter, and it’s less fun playing AD most of the time because of low population most of the week.
Fact is, many of the AD players got sick of being farmed, being 8000 points in the rear, owning three keeps for most of the day that are sieged the whole time, etc. So many jumped campaigns or just decided to play EP alts. Like you said, everyone likes to ‘win’. Even if it’s not really ‘winning’ so much as taking mostly undefended keeps from factions that can’t hope to compete.
I want YOU to understand that it’s bad for the health of the campaign, and this is just a silly mini-game. It’s not an e-sport. The ‘pact’ isn’t real. And there are some really cool players in the other factions that are just as fun to fight along with. I don’t get upset when a different faction friend kills me, that’s the cross faction mentality.
I understand the cross-faction mentality and I'm glad it works for you. It doesn't suit me.
I also understand the logic of blaming people who faction hop to the winning faction because yeah, that's a thing that happens, but I don't understand why my faction loyalty to EP is suddenly bad for the health of the game when we're winning when some people would say it would be a great thing to be faction loyal if we were losing (just like its a good thing for AD and DC to have faction loyal players right now.)
If you want the scales to balance out, I think the answer is for the fair weather AD and DC players who jumped ship to discover a little faction loyalty themselves, not to ask long-term loyal EP players to jump ship instead. I know some EP players have and that's fine for them to do so. But I won't, and again I think its strange to call long-term win-or-lose faction loyalty unhealthy just for the winning side. For me, faction loyalty is more of a neutral thing - its constant whether we're winning or losing and you'll always find me fighting for EP - it's not a good thing when we're losing and a bad thing when we're winning, it's just how I choose to play. Hopefully, every faction has a core of faction-loyal players willing to play for them, win or lose, regardless of what the fair-weather AP hunters decide to do.
Its a game. I chose my side and I'll stick to it for all the reasons I listed in my previous post. Others can do what they want and whatever works for them. Personally, I've played EP on Vivec for as long as Vivec's been around, winning and losing, and I'm not switching sides just because EP dominated the last two 30-day campaigns or someone tells me its "unhealthy" for the campaign to play for the side I've always played for when we're curbstombing everyone in the score.
Its a little strange. I never really understood why some people are quite loyal to their favorite sports teams and other aren't, never having been much of a sports fan myself. But I think I understand it a little better now.
In any case, I think we both understand each other, even though we approach alliances and faction loyalty in Cyrodiil very differently and aren't likely to come to an agreement there.Edited by VaranisArano on June 10, 2018 10:13PM0 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭The EP zergs in the evenings have been real. The numbers you see showing up to take the ring keeps at night are nearly always overwhelming.
There’s zero pressure anymore from AD, EP population needs to be reduced after hours, or more people need to play AD, they need the most help.
I’ve got to ask, what’s the fun of playing with no opposition? 18 guys showing to to kill 2 people trying to take a resource? We escaped, one or two of you died. Did you really enjoy that? All 18 of you? Did any of you consider playing yellow or even blue?
Map dies about the same time every night, and it's bloody awful to see.
Sadly the incentive is to take more keeps, in the form of quests and o ticks. The average pug will continue to do this and log after a couple hours play, feeling good about taking half the map and feeling important.
I don't agree with it, sometimes I do tag along for the AP too if it's dead quiet, cos there's simply nothing else to do and it's only 8pm my time.
The obvious solution is for the other factions to bring more to counter. So far this week, that has been happening. I don't see it staying EP dominated for long.
Try spinning up a yellow toon. If you’re just running with the stupid 70 man EP horde PVDooring everything, you are the problem. Not just a part of it. Take some responsibility!
I have an AD alt I played back when the map was all blue.
i refuse to make a ad toon
Because... you’re better than they are?
Because... you enjoy running with 70 people pvdooring the map? Is that compelling gameplay?
I think the campaign buffs have it all wrong, they reward the faction that zergs the map and sits on either 5 keeps or Emperor.
There’s no incentive to play the outnumbered faction that’s two pop bars behind the others. Add in a ‘hopelessly outnumbered’ buff as an incentive to actually play the one bar faction.
some people (myself included) won't change factions regardless of how good or bad their faction is doing.
Invictus2 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭When I play on AD, I notice my zone chat feed moving very very quickly with a lot of people complaining. It's interesting to note that Iskra is one of the most reasonable people in AD zone chat.
This is just funny. Lol.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel2 -
Grimlok_S✭✭✭✭✭Back on topic... Shor needs more AD!
We'll win the campaign with less than a 5k point lead unless we get more help!Edited by Grimlok_S on June 11, 2018 7:39PMLight Attack Hero
Class contextStamplar
StamDK
Stamsorc
MagDK
StamMAGStamden
Magplar
Stam NB
Bomb NB2 -
Agrippa_Invisus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just because we choose not to roll AD / DC, don't assume those of us who play only EP don't have a way to try to let the map balance out some.
If the map's too red when I log in I go play another game.
Stop assuming playing with your faction or handholding your pugs to victory is some way of fixing the faction balance problems. Numerous guilds rerolling hasn't helped at this point, what point is a few more?
Some of it is intrinsic failings of the other factions. Some of it is population balance issues during time zones I already don't play so my rerolling can't correct.
You want it fixed? You go bug ZOS for dynamic population locks to force the factions to remain even population at all times.
I've been calling for them for, literally, years. Every time I do no one listens.Edited by Agrippa_Invisus on June 11, 2018 8:16PMAgrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
DragonKnight / Templar / Warden / Sorcerer - Vagabond
Once a General, now a Citizen
Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!4 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »Just because we choose not to roll AD / DC, don't assume those of us who play only EP don't have a way to try to let the map balance out some.
If the map's too red when I log in I go play another game.
Stop assuming playing with your faction or handholding your pugs to victory is some way of fixing the faction balance problems. Numerous guilds rerolling hasn't helped at this point, what point is a few more?
Some of it is intrinsic failings of the other factions. Some of it is population balance issues during time zones I already don't play so my rerolling can't correct.
You want it fixed? You go bug ZOS for dynamic population locks to force the factions to remain even population at all times.
I've been calling for them for, literally, years. Every time I do no one listens.
A few guilds re-rolling won AD a campaign.
I agree on the faction locks though
1 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »Some of it is intrinsic failings of the other factions.
Like what? No one is born AD/DC/EP. The composition of each faction on each platform is the result of player choices. On PC/NA, each faction has been at the top and each faction has been at the bottom. I recall a couple of summers ago talk of toxic EP zone chat and a thread asking for players to switch over to help.
The current distribution of players on PC/NA is the result of player choices and the cultural evolution of the server, but hardly the result of failings intrinsic to AD or DC.
I recall back in 1.4, you weren't a fan of AD's dominance. It was an AD guild switching over to EP that tilted the table in EP's favor and built the momentum that resulted in months of EP dominance. After, an EP guild tired of that dominance switched to DC and helped usher in a very good period for DC.
It's fully within the power of the players to change as they have before. There are just too many experienced players and leaders *currently* playing for EP who are content with the current situation. Let's face it, they like to stomp players less effective than they are and don't like to be on the receiving end. You probably know who most of them are. "but bro were outnumbered" blah blah blah blah.Edited by zyk on June 12, 2018 7:57AM6 -
antihero727✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »The EP zergs in the evenings have been real. The numbers you see showing up to take the ring keeps at night are nearly always overwhelming.
There’s zero pressure anymore from AD, EP population needs to be reduced after hours, or more people need to play AD, they need the most help.
I’ve got to ask, what’s the fun of playing with no opposition? 18 guys showing to to kill 2 people trying to take a resource? We escaped, one or two of you died. Did you really enjoy that? All 18 of you? Did any of you consider playing yellow or even blue?
Map dies about the same time every night, and it's bloody awful to see.
Sadly the incentive is to take more keeps, in the form of quests and o ticks. The average pug will continue to do this and log after a couple hours play, feeling good about taking half the map and feeling important.
I don't agree with it, sometimes I do tag along for the AP too if it's dead quiet, cos there's simply nothing else to do and it's only 8pm my time.
The obvious solution is for the other factions to bring more to counter. So far this week, that has been happening. I don't see it staying EP dominated for long.
Try spinning up a yellow toon. If you’re just running with the stupid 70 man EP horde PVDooring everything, you are the problem. Not just a part of it. Take some responsibility!
I have an AD alt I played back when the map was all blue.
i refuse to make a ad toon
Because... you’re better than they are?
Because... you enjoy running with 70 people pvdooring the map? Is that compelling gameplay?
I think the campaign buffs have it all wrong, they reward the faction that zergs the map and sits on either 5 keeps or Emperor.
There’s no incentive to play the outnumbered faction that’s two pop bars behind the others. Add in a ‘hopelessly outnumbered’ buff as an incentive to actually play the one bar faction.
Personally, I refuse to make an AD or DC toon because:
A. I'm an EP loyalist, win or lose
B. I'm in an EP only PVP guild, again, for EP win or lose
C. I'm in a second guild that I use for trading that also only does EP PVP win or lose but that frowns on fighting guildies in PVP
D. 8 out of 11 of my characters are EP and the other three were made before 1 Tamriel or they'd have been EP too.
E. I've been PVPing for EP for about a year and a half now, on PC/NA Haderus, Trueflame, Shor, and now Vivec.
I've PVPed for EP win or lose, so I hope you can understand why I'm not about to swap to a different alliance just because EP is currently dominant. I'm faction loyal, and while other players can go cross-faction "to find good fights" or what have you if they want to, I'm going to keep shedding blood for the Pact.
Call me part of the problem if you want because I don't do cross-faction PVP for AD or DC, but I fought for EP before we were dominant and I'll keep fighting once we aren't anymore. Win or lose, I'm still having a ton of fun PVPing and playing the map for the Pact. Hope you can understand my perspective.
I sort of get it, and a lot of people think like you do, die hard faction loyalists. Role players, etc..
I don’t see it that way, I see other gamers playing a video game, one color or another doesn’t really matter, and it’s less fun playing AD most of the time because of low population most of the week.
Fact is, many of the AD players got sick of being farmed, being 8000 points in the rear, owning three keeps for most of the day that are sieged the whole time, etc. So many jumped campaigns or just decided to play EP alts. Like you said, everyone likes to ‘win’. Even if it’s not really ‘winning’ so much as taking mostly undefended keeps from factions that can’t hope to compete.
I want YOU to understand that it’s bad for the health of the campaign, and this is just a silly mini-game. It’s not an e-sport. The ‘pact’ isn’t real. And there are some really cool players in the other factions that are just as fun to fight along with. I don’t get upset when a different faction friend kills me, that’s the cross faction mentality.
I understand the cross-faction mentality and I'm glad it works for you. It doesn't suit me.
I also understand the logic of blaming people who faction hop to the winning faction because yeah, that's a thing that happens, but I don't understand why my faction loyalty to EP is suddenly bad for the health of the game when we're winning when some people would say it would be a great thing to be faction loyal if we were losing (just like its a good thing for AD and DC to have faction loyal players right now.)
If you want the scales to balance out, I think the answer is for the fair weather AD and DC players who jumped ship to discover a little faction loyalty themselves, not to ask long-term loyal EP players to jump ship instead. I know some EP players have and that's fine for them to do so. But I won't, and again I think its strange to call long-term win-or-lose faction loyalty unhealthy just for the winning side. For me, faction loyalty is more of a neutral thing - its constant whether we're winning or losing and you'll always find me fighting for EP - it's not a good thing when we're losing and a bad thing when we're winning, it's just how I choose to play. Hopefully, every faction has a core of faction-loyal players willing to play for them, win or lose, regardless of what the fair-weather AP hunters decide to do.
Its a game. I chose my side and I'll stick to it for all the reasons I listed in my previous post. Others can do what they want and whatever works for them. Personally, I've played EP on Vivec for as long as Vivec's been around, winning and losing, and I'm not switching sides just because EP dominated the last two 30-day campaigns or someone tells me its "unhealthy" for the campaign to play for the side I've always played for when we're curbstombing everyone in the score.
Its a little strange. I never really understood why some people are quite loyal to their favorite sports teams and other aren't, never having been much of a sports fan myself. But I think I understand it a little better now.
In any case, I think we both understand each other, even though we approach alliances and faction loyalty in Cyrodiil very differently and aren't likely to come to an agreement there.
As an AD loyalists I got the same story a while back when all the campaigns were dominated by AD. That was when the grind for a new toon was far more work too. Who cares about campaign health, the campaign score, and the PvP community in general? Most people just want to light attack and pug blob anymore. Organized groups are few and far between as if the community that took Cyrodiil seriously was not playing anymore. It’s sad to see something that was great fall from grace so quickly.Veldrn-AD Magica Sorc
Bizarro Veldrn-AD Stam Sorc
Antiherro-AD Stam DK
Antihero-AD Magplar
Aww Crit-AD Magblade
AD Since PC beta
On A lag free vacation
for the near and far future0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PSA:
Unless you are in a controlled 4v4v4 BG/tournament, you are all zerglings in a really poorly optimized Game of Thrones simulator.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Potenza✭✭✭✭✭I am very glad I left Vivec, It gave me the opportunity to try out the other servers and learned that NON-CP is the best pvp this game can offer.2 -
frozywozy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have been an EP loyalist forever but with the current situation, I am more than willing to play AD. I think more people should consider it. Everyone should have understood by now that waiting for Zenimax to fix something broken is not a solution. It is in the hands of the players to make the game the way they want. I hate to have this mentality but we don't have any other choice, until a better game gets released.Frozn - Stamdk - AR50
Frosted - Magplar - AR50
Frodn - Magden - AR50
Warmed - Magblade - AR50
Mmfrozy - Magsorc - AR44
Necrozn - Magcro - AR32
Twitch.TV/FrozyTV
PvP Group Builds
“Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and great minds discuss ideas.” -Eleanor Roosevelt- Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
- Remove / Change CPs System, remove current CP/noCP campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
- Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
- Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
- Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
- Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
- Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
- Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
- Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
- Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
- Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
- Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
- Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
- Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
- Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
- Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
- Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
- Remove Block Casting through Battle Spirit
- Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
- Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
- Fix Rams going crazy (spinning around)
- Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
- Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
- Introduce dynamic population
- Lower population cap by 20%
- Add Snare Immunity potions
- Bring resurrection sickness
- Fix character desync
- Fix cc breaking bug
- Fix gap closer bug
- Fix health desync
- Fix combat bug
- Fix streak bug
- Fix server lag
4 -
Vilestride✭✭✭✭✭Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »Some of it is intrinsic failings of the other factions.
Like what? No one is born AD/DC/EP. The composition of each faction on each platform is the result of player choices. On PC/NA, each faction has been at the top and each faction has been at the bottom. I recall a couple of summers ago talk of toxic EP zone chat and a thread asking for players to switch over to help.
The current distribution of players on PC/NA is the result of player choices and the cultural evolution of the server, but hardly the result of failings intrinsic to AD or DC.
I recall back in 1.4, you weren't a fan of AD's dominance. It was an AD guild switching over to EP that tilted the table in EP's favor and built the momentum that resulted in months of EP dominance. After, an EP guild tired of that dominance switched to DC and helped usher in a very good period for DC.
It's fully within the power of the players to change as they have before. There are just too many experienced players and leaders *currently* playing for EP who are content with the current situation. Let's face it, they like to stomp players less effective than they are and don't like to be on the receiving end. You probably know who most of them are. "but bro were outnumbered" blah blah blah blah.
So you're saying its EPs fault they're winning? Not AD or DCs? Damn those irresponsible pug stompers!Edited by Vilestride on June 12, 2018 9:03PM0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vilestride wrote: »So you're saying its EPs fault they're winning? Not AD or DCs? Damn those irresponsible pug stompers!
It's not just winning, it's running away with it. But who is EP? Were those playing on PC/NA/Vivec/EP assigned that faction? Did all of them start with EP?
While some players on EP are hardcore EP who started with EP and only play EP, I would say the majority are not. I would say most PVP players are multifaction now, regardless of which they started with years ago, and are making a choice to play on the winning team.
They are acting in their individual self-interest, which is okay in a bubble, but we all must consider the impact our choices have in the bigger picture. In this case, the state of the game. The result is a very low level of competition and a low quality of fights as many experienced players have expressed.
This makes the game less interesting and less fun. For every player who chooses to play for EP because they don't like to lose, there is probably another who chooses to stop playing instead. This is one of the reasons AvA isn't very popular outside of events.
This all goes back to pick up games when we were kids. How are teams typically chosen? With two captains alternating between picks to best ensure balance. If left to their crony instincts, the best and most popular kids would choose to play with each other, outmatching the other team who would, eventually, rather not play with those odds, and there would be no game.Edited by zyk on June 12, 2018 9:56PM2 -
SwampRaider✭✭✭✭✭
So umm, when are we going to REALLY balance this campaign, guys?
-Concerned DC Zone GeneralCharacter: Eros, Eros I I, The Paw of Woe
Class: Templar Healer/MagWarden/ Stam Sorc
Alliance: DC
Campaign: Vivec (pc/na)
Guardians of Daggerfall0 -
Agrippa_Invisus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The primary issue isn't what guild is where, it's population balance, most especially in off hours.
ZOS needs to implement a dynamic population locking system based off whatever faction has the fewest number of players online. This'll naturally even out the playerbase over time.
After that, when the numbers are even, it is perfectly ok for one side to get beat like a kettle drum. Losing when the fight is fair from the get go, and you have the same tools the opponent has, is ok. It's when players can't handle that, there's salt.
But, for now, there is justifiable frustration at the population imbalance. The thing is, EP doesn't have an off hours guild that can swap to maintain dominance. We just have a freakishly large number of pugs and a couple of /zone LFG raid leads. They're the ones who would be influenced the most by a dynamic pop lock.Agrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
DragonKnight / Templar / Warden / Sorcerer - Vagabond
Once a General, now a Citizen
Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!1 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »But, for now, there is justifiable frustration at the population imbalance. The thing is, EP doesn't have an off hours guild that can swap to maintain dominance. We just have a freakishly large number of pugs and a couple of /zone LFG raid leads. They're the ones who would be influenced the most by a dynamic pop lock.
Guilds are only part of the problem. And when it comes to guilds, it's not the individual guilds that are the issue, but the continuous stream of players who switch factions to join the popular guilds -- of which EP has the most. When I last played, it seemed like a good chunk of every decent EP raid was recognizable ex-AD.
I'd say the greater issue, at least when I last played, are the smaller groups and surfers. Even when the top EP guilds are not running, their players often form smaller groups and/or surf. When I last played the average random zerg of surfers that would push to Alessia constantly had a lot of pretty good players. That makes a huge difference. Being outmatched at that level is what leads to the frustration that causes the AD random/small group player to either switch sides or find something else to do.
Further, as a community, we have to redefine what we call a good fight. Too often, to too many players, that's fighting in a group of decent players with strong builds vs a disorganized mob of randoms. Even if there are some good players in that mob, it's more akin to PVE than good PVP. Good PVP is about good competition, not fighting the greatest number of opponents possible regardless of their aptitude. And there are dudes who are pretty good players who have been doing this for years...
If you want a good fight, don't just switch to AD, help those inexperienced, poorly geared AD randoms clear out a Mischievous, Animosity, zdm, Hysteria, Invictus, Drac small man, Khole, whomever tower farm. That's a good fight against good opponents. Not farming randoms.
Who cares if you outnumber them when they have every other advantage and half your disorganized teammates hardly know how to play?
Basically, if you take pride in being a good player, stop taking the easy way out.Edited by zyk on June 13, 2018 5:34AM3 -
Agrippa_Invisus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Basically, if you take pride in being a good player, stop taking the easy way out.
Oh, I thoroughly agree.
Good players should relish and seek out good fights.
If you don't, you are just a farmer. Sure, good guilds farm, but farm guilds aren't good.
The guilds who actively seek out fights against other guilds in the field or go hunting them when their location becomes obvious are the ones that have the most respect in my eyes. Putting yourself in a situation where it's not a guaranteed win, and willing to put your own reputation as a quality guild on the line in an attempt to send that other group back to respawn is exactly the type of competition guild level pvp should be about.
Invictus prides itself in how well we perform in direct competition to other guilds. We love it when we see our opponents and our fellow EP guilds feeling that same pride. It makes us fight that much harder and fiercer. We root for our friends, we jeer (in a friendly manner) our opponents, and everyone has a good time.
It's when you fail that you can learn what you need to do to improve, and it's hard to fail against players who have no chance against you. Even if you get eventually zerged down by greater numbers, the only lesson is 'bring more, or find a better ratio of forces'.
If all you ever fight is random players, you'll only ever be good at fighting said random players. Throw your guild into the woodchipper, and be willing to take a few wipes on the chin, and you can start to learn what you need to do to make your guild better and excel.
That's how I did it when I ran Hijinx. That's why I love Invictus.
No rest, just pick up, figure out what went wrong, and then right back into the fight.Agrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
DragonKnight / Templar / Warden / Sorcerer - Vagabond
Once a General, now a Citizen
Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!1 -
courier✭✭✭So I logged into my AD toon yesterday and surprise surprise, we had zero keeps. We had zero scrolls and we had 2 bars vs 3 of EP and DC...
Thats all fine and dandy, but when I ride out to try to take a keep, EP are farming at the gate. Now I love EP, and I fought hard with these guys since I first stepped in Cyro, but seriously? EP zone has seen me say "*** AD, gate the ***." on more than one occasion.... In the same token they never saw me say take their scrolls and gate camp them. I personally wouldn't wish that on anyone, it causes a super toxic enviroment, and on top of that.. I want people to be able to fight.
So after getting out of the gate, we manage to get BloodMayne back, hooray for us right? We manage to get Fare and BlackBoot and we think we're on a roll. No... not even close, atfer wrangling Roe back from DC we are at a stalemate, struggling to keep EP farmers off of Fare, struggling to keep DC at bay while they bang on Roe for literally 4 hours.
I don't know many DC guys because my EP time was spent at Drake and Crops primarily, but I have to ask... What the actual *** guys? You don't even have Aleswell and you're going to chase Roe for hours? I hope your zone was cursed with the likes of that guy everyone tells to be quiet on the yellow team.
As for EP, you guys are better than gate farming. You know who you are, I know who you are, and you should seriously think about the consequences of your actions. I'm a knucklehead, I'm going to attempt to pull you guys north until I run out of siege, but lots of players don't have that mentality, they instead just log off. When they log, you get none of that precious AP.
Also, lastly for those of you EP who have been a ltitle salty at the players who have swapped sides to find fights... I leave you with this.
You're welcome for giving you something to do.
10 -
SwampRaider✭✭✭✭✭I don't know many DC guys because my EP time was spent at Drake and Crops primarily, but I have to ask... What the actual *** guys? You don't even have Aleswell and you're going to chase Roe for hours? I hope your zone was cursed with the likes of that guy everyone tells to be quiet on the yellow team.
We Berate the DC constantly for defending roe and harassing roebeck when we dont have Dclaw or Aleswell
They dont care.
It took literally 2 zone generals on the DC side today to push the pugs to aleswell, bleakers and Dclaw.Character: Eros, Eros I I, The Paw of Woe
Class: Templar Healer/MagWarden/ Stam Sorc
Alliance: DC
Campaign: Vivec (pc/na)
Guardians of Daggerfall2 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't know many DC guys because my EP time was spent at Drake and Crops primarily, but I have to ask... What the actual *** guys? You don't even have Aleswell and you're going to chase Roe for hours? I hope your zone was cursed with the likes of that guy everyone tells to be quiet on the yellow team.
Well, i mean. you know what happens when DC takes Chal or EP takes Aleswell. the fighting ends for a few hours between DC and EP. that's just the way it goes.Invictus1 -
Elong✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So I logged into my AD toon yesterday and surprise surprise, we had zero keeps. We had zero scrolls and we had 2 bars vs 3 of EP and DC...
Thats all fine and dandy, but when I ride out to try to take a keep, EP are farming at the gate. Now I love EP, and I fought hard with these guys since I first stepped in Cyro, but seriously? EP zone has seen me say "*** AD, gate the ***." on more than one occasion.... In the same token they never saw me say take their scrolls and gate camp them. I personally wouldn't wish that on anyone, it causes a super toxic enviroment, and on top of that.. I want people to be able to fight.
So after getting out of the gate, we manage to get BloodMayne back, hooray for us right? We manage to get Fare and BlackBoot and we think we're on a roll. No... not even close, atfer wrangling Roe back from DC we are at a stalemate, struggling to keep EP farmers off of Fare, struggling to keep DC at bay while they bang on Roe for literally 4 hours.
I don't know many DC guys because my EP time was spent at Drake and Crops primarily, but I have to ask... What the actual *** guys? You don't even have Aleswell and you're going to chase Roe for hours? I hope your zone was cursed with the likes of that guy everyone tells to be quiet on the yellow team.
As for EP, you guys are better than gate farming. You know who you are, I know who you are, and you should seriously think about the consequences of your actions. I'm a knucklehead, I'm going to attempt to pull you guys north until I run out of siege, but lots of players don't have that mentality, they instead just log off. When they log, you get none of that precious AP.
Also, lastly for those of you EP who have been a ltitle salty at the players who have swapped sides to find fights... I leave you with this.
You're welcome for giving you something to do.
Well said.1