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Let's talk about the MMR...

  • Olupajmibanan
    Olupajmibanan
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    How about just creating ranked brackets and matchmaking based solely on your bracket? Just like in League of Legends, you are put in a match with players from the same bracket.

    Ranked brackets are a big pain at the start of the season when every player is in the same bracket, however it gets better and better with time. After initial mess is settled up, everyone will be very quickly in the bracket he truly belongs to, resulting in +-even matches.
    Edited by Olupajmibanan on June 13, 2018 6:32PM
  • Mohegan_Sneak
    Ok, so I thought the system was just bugged and I would always just reset the queue? I was running a 3 man premade. Me, And two magsorcs that have played much longer than me and are above my skill level(Incursion, Mercer) and we was waiting around 15 minutes per queue just to be matched with games with @Thogard but we would have only 3 people for half the match. But if I solo Que it’s no longer that 2-5mins most of the time. So I don’t think it has to do with the 3 total match making of the 3 man pre made. Cause I shouldn’t be that high?
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Ok, so I thought the system was just bugged and I would always just reset the queue? I was running a 3 man premade. Me, And two magsorcs that have played much longer than me and are above my skill level(Incursion, Mercer) and we was waiting around 15 minutes per queue just to be matched with games with @Thogard but we would have only 3 people for half the match. But if I solo Que it’s no longer that 2-5mins most of the time. So I don’t think it has to do with the 3 total match making of the 3 man pre made. Cause I shouldn’t be that high?

    Your MMR gets multiplied because you’re in a 3 man.

    Also if you’re in the same match as me it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re in a high MMR bracket, because not all my characters are high MMR. If you fought me yesterday I was probably on my Stam DK (very large / fat orc), which isn’t my main (not for a while anyway). I’m having a ton of fun on him though and his queue times are short. Mercer has a high mmr though
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • Mohegan_Sneak
    Thogard wrote: »
    Ok, so I thought the system was just bugged and I would always just reset the queue? I was running a 3 man premade. Me, And two magsorcs that have played much longer than me and are above my skill level(Incursion, Mercer) and we was waiting around 15 minutes per queue just to be matched with games with @Thogard but we would have only 3 people for half the match. But if I solo Que it’s no longer that 2-5mins most of the time. So I don’t think it has to do with the 3 total match making of the 3 man pre made. Cause I shouldn’t be that high?

    Your MMR gets multiplied because you’re in a 3 man.

    Also if you’re in the same match as me it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re in a high MMR bracket, because not all my characters are high MMR. If you fought me yesterday I was probably on my Stam DK (very large / fat orc), which isn’t my main (not for a while anyway). I’m having a ton of fun on him though and his queue times are short. Mercer has a high mmr though

    Stam sorc I think it was, could be wrong though. Thanks for the input! Hope to hear back from ZOS on this. Only been playing for a few months but I have noticed a slight biaseness when it comes to the PvP community :(
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Thogard wrote: »
    Ok, so I thought the system was just bugged and I would always just reset the queue? I was running a 3 man premade. Me, And two magsorcs that have played much longer than me and are above my skill level(Incursion, Mercer) and we was waiting around 15 minutes per queue just to be matched with games with @Thogard but we would have only 3 people for half the match. But if I solo Que it’s no longer that 2-5mins most of the time. So I don’t think it has to do with the 3 total match making of the 3 man pre made. Cause I shouldn’t be that high?

    Your MMR gets multiplied because you’re in a 3 man.

    Also if you’re in the same match as me it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re in a high MMR bracket, because not all my characters are high MMR. If you fought me yesterday I was probably on my Stam DK (very large / fat orc), which isn’t my main (not for a while anyway). I’m having a ton of fun on him though and his queue times are short. Mercer has a high mmr though

    Stam sorc I think it was, could be wrong though. Thanks for the input! Hope to hear back from ZOS on this. Only been playing for a few months but I have noticed a slight biaseness when it comes to the PvP community :(

    I don’t have a Stam sorc anymore. My mag sorc is thoggy boi jr, Stam DK is Thogard, and stamden is thogaids
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    My que times are getting longer and longer. Over 20 minutes now
    Zebendal- Stam Sorc, PC NA
  • KTLikeFire
    KTLikeFire
    Soul Shriven
    Battlegrounds were my jam pre-summerset. Now I can’t even get into a game.
  • zooleo
    zooleo
    Soul Shriven
    RIP in peace all those pvp characters who's MMR has outgrown their player skill. Let that be a lesson to folks that go for objectives instead of developing player skill. Won't be making that mistake again.
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    zooleo wrote: »
    RIP in peace all those pvp characters who's MMR has outgrown their player skill. Let that be a lesson to folks that go for objectives instead of developing player skill. Won't be making that mistake again.

    You are right, those who have developed their MMR along with their skill are the ones reaping the benefits of this. So long as we see queue times over an hour long as a benefit that is.

    /sarcasm
    EU | PC | AD
  • Fake Remedy
    Fake Remedy
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    RIP Battlegrounds 21/05/2018
    Fake Remedy

    yt. Fake_Remedy
    twitch. Fake_Remedy
    discord. fake_remedy#3254
    e. [email protected]
  • Ecrusted
    Ecrusted
    Soul Shriven
    This explains why on Xbox NA battleground solo queues are taking 60+ mins at the moment

    RIP BATTLEGROUNDS
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Ecrusted wrote: »
    This explains why on Xbox NA battleground solo queues are taking 60+ mins at the moment
    RIP BATTLEGROUNDS

    Yep. This has been quite possibly the worst implementation of an MMR system I have seen.. ever.

    Not only do you end up spending an hour in the queue, but you still get games of 3v4v4 where the full groups are premades and the 3-man is solo queue.

    Like, I'm trying to think of a way they could have gotten this any worse and I'm genuinely struggling. Complete failure.

    And we only asked them to create a separate queue for premades.

    EU | PC | AD
  • Aznox
    Aznox
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    but you still get games of 3v4v4 where the full groups are premades and the 3-man is solo queue.

    Yeah this happens way too often :/
    Edited by Aznox on June 17, 2018 10:08PM
    Aznox
    PC EU
    Khajiit Orc Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf
    Currently enjoys a bit of loneliness in Shor CP Imperial City
    Battleground regular and Dueling addict
    Theorycrafting enthusiast
    CP1000+ club
  • HEBREWHAMMERRR
    HEBREWHAMMERRR
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    Exactly the problem currently. It takes me roughly 30 minutes at best on my main to get a ques, 9/10 times entering solo vs a premade ball of cancer. If I que group the time goes up and also still facing solid premades (which is welcomed but not accompanied with the atrocious que times). I hop on my sorc, instant solo ques vs the absolute worst of the worst. I guess it’s fun? Lol
  • TheNightflame
    TheNightflame
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    is mmr divided by battleground type? or is it an aberage of all of the games. i.e. i'm great at crazy king but suck at deathmatch, am i average? or have a different mmr for each
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    is mmr divided by battleground type? or is it an aberage of all of the games. i.e. i'm great at crazy king but suck at deathmatch, am i average? or have a different mmr for each

    We don't know. It's definitely a possibility. All we know at this point is that there are quite a lot of variables.

    Can anyone think of a logical way to test that?
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    Thogard wrote: »
    is mmr divided by battleground type? or is it an aberage of all of the games. i.e. i'm great at crazy king but suck at deathmatch, am i average? or have a different mmr for each

    We don't know. It's definitely a possibility. All we know at this point is that there are quite a lot of variables.

    Can anyone think of a logical way to test that?

    Since the changes you could take a character that you do not pvp on and play only deathmatch until you get leaderboard+lots of wins+delay on que. Then swap to try and que for flag games. Then measure the que time over the last say 10 death match BG's vs the que time for the flag games. It would be important though to have a second character to test que times in the flag games to get a baseline.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Thogard wrote: »
    is mmr divided by battleground type? or is it an aberage of all of the games. i.e. i'm great at crazy king but suck at deathmatch, am i average? or have a different mmr for each

    We don't know. It's definitely a possibility. All we know at this point is that there are quite a lot of variables.

    Can anyone think of a logical way to test that?

    Since the changes you could take a character that you do not pvp on and play only deathmatch until you get leaderboard+lots of wins+delay on que. Then swap to try and que for flag games. Then measure the que time over the last say 10 death match BG's vs the que time for the flag games. It would be important though to have a second character to test que times in the flag games to get a baseline.

    Good idea. it might be hard to isolate the variables due to all the people queueing for just deathmatch... but it could work.
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • Diddly_D_Potatoes
    Diddly_D_Potatoes
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    Thogard wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    is mmr divided by battleground type? or is it an aberage of all of the games. i.e. i'm great at crazy king but suck at deathmatch, am i average? or have a different mmr for each

    We don't know. It's definitely a possibility. All we know at this point is that there are quite a lot of variables.

    Can anyone think of a logical way to test that?

    Since the changes you could take a character that you do not pvp on and play only deathmatch until you get leaderboard+lots of wins+delay on que. Then swap to try and que for flag games. Then measure the que time over the last say 10 death match BG's vs the que time for the flag games. It would be important though to have a second character to test que times in the flag games to get a baseline.

    Good idea. it might be hard to isolate the variables due to all the people queueing for just deathmatch... but it could work.

    I have a mag sorc that hadn't stepped foot in BGs prior to Summerset. I have almost exclusively been queuing land grab and flag games because it's easy to cement a position on the leaderboards in a short amount of time. The only deathmatches I do on this toon are when it is the random daily.

    Queue times have gone from near instant to 10mins+ as my MMR has progressed regardless of the match type queued. Also, when I do get a deathmatch when doing the random BG, it is populated with the "usual suspects". So I would hazard a guess that your MMR is not separated by match type.
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    Made 53k on my main this week in DM. The only reason I got this much was because I grouped with a low MMR person for a couple days.

    And 53k is still not enough for top 100 Xbox NA. These guys wouldn't have almost 400k if the queues were actually fair for all.

    I've pretty much given up on trying to get in BGs on my main. I can literally hop on an alt and get in within 2 minutes. That's why my alt has over 80k in DM (barely the minimum at the moment).
  • Fake Remedy
    Fake Remedy
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    "Battlegrounds will match players by level and champion rank along with whether you're grouped or not." - @ZOS_BrianWheeler Reddit Battlegrounds AUA - 30/03/2017

    Old but still could be another obstacle. Obviously anyone who has sent more than 1 gold in eso pvp will know champion frank eqweels player skill and IQ level.

    WE any closer to the truth Mulder? @Thogard
    Edited by Fake Remedy on June 24, 2018 8:54AM
    Fake Remedy

    yt. Fake_Remedy
    twitch. Fake_Remedy
    discord. fake_remedy#3254
    e. [email protected]
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    "Battlegrounds will match players by level and champion rank along with whether you're grouped or not." - @ZOS_BrianWheeler Reddit Battlegrounds AUA - 30/03/2017

    Old but still could be another obstacle. Obviously anyone who has sent more than 1 gold in eso pvp will know champion frank eqweels player skill and IQ level.

    WE any closer to the truth Mulder? @Thogard

    I talked with Brian at E3. The gist of the conversation is that it’s a complex formula with many variables, and while he’s not allowed to tell me exactly what those variables are, I was right that the longer you wait in queue the wider your MMR range can be for finding opponents. He mentioned that that’s the main thing they’re looking at now for adjustment to speed up the queue times for the higher MMR players, but he also mentioned that a lot of the higher MMR brackets aren’t fully flushed out yet because of all the new players and so they wanted to watch it closely and adjust as needed.
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • Fake Remedy
    Fake Remedy
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    Thogard wrote: »
    I talked with Brian at E3. The gist of the conversation is that it’s a complex formula with many variables, and while he’s not allowed to tell me exactly what those variables are, I was right that the longer you wait in queue the wider your MMR range can be for finding opponents. He mentioned that that’s the main thing they’re looking at now for adjustment to speed up the queue times for the higher MMR players, but he also mentioned that a lot of the higher MMR brackets aren’t fully flushed out yet because of all the new players and so they wanted to watch it closely and adjust as needed.

    Man, thank you for this. Really helpful but this should be coming from @ZOS_BrianWheeler himself. With no official statement there will/is little to watch as (and rightfully so) players aren't prepared to queue 20+ minutes for a chance of a battleground match. Not only that, queue solutions from players to make twinks to enter into lower brackets only adds to the cluster "safe space" new player experience.
    Fake Remedy

    yt. Fake_Remedy
    twitch. Fake_Remedy
    discord. fake_remedy#3254
    e. [email protected]
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Thogard wrote: »
    I talked with Brian at E3. The gist of the conversation is that it’s a complex formula with many variables, and while he’s not allowed to tell me exactly what those variables are, I was right that the longer you wait in queue the wider your MMR range can be for finding opponents. He mentioned that that’s the main thing they’re looking at now for adjustment to speed up the queue times for the higher MMR players, but he also mentioned that a lot of the higher MMR brackets aren’t fully flushed out yet because of all the new players and so they wanted to watch it closely and adjust as needed.

    Man, thank you for this. Really helpful but this should be coming from @ZOS_BrianWheeler himself. With no official statement there will/is little to watch as (and rightfully so) players aren't prepared to queue 20+ minutes for a chance of a battleground match. Not only that, queue solutions from players to make twinks to enter into lower brackets only adds to the cluster "safe space" new player experience.

    I think that they are intentionally not making an official statement because they are still testing things out and adjusting the variables / timers to improve the experience. Once they’ve settled on an MMR formula they might put something out, but they said in the patch notes that this is a work in progress and as such, it makes sense that they wouldn’t release their formulas.

    We just need to let them know that this current iteration sucks for the high MMR queuers, (which they know) and hope that they’re quick with moving to the next MMR formula.
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • Fake Remedy
    Fake Remedy
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    Did you mean this from PC/Mac Patch Notes v4.0.5 - Summerset & Update 18, posted May 18th?
    • Decreased the rate at which the system expands the range of players to be evaluated for a potential match.
      • These changes were done in an effort to make Battleground matches more competitive. With these adjustments, there may be longer queue times to produce better competition in Battlegrounds, but we will be monitoring their impact and adjusting if necessary.
    Fake Remedy

    yt. Fake_Remedy
    twitch. Fake_Remedy
    discord. fake_remedy#3254
    e. [email protected]
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Did you mean this from PC/Mac Patch Notes v4.0.5 - Summerset & Update 18, posted May 18th?
    • Decreased the rate at which the system expands the range of players to be evaluated for a potential match.
      • These changes were done in an effort to make Battleground matches more competitive. With these adjustments, there may be longer queue times to produce better competition in Battlegrounds, but we will be monitoring their impact and adjusting if necessary.

    Yeah
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    There is a brilliant solution that would be very much ZOS like because it’s an awesome band-aid fix: Introduction of a „Play now!“ Button that disregards MMR but comes with a 50% damage debuff. Also solves the premade vs PuG Problem elegantly :trollface:;)

    @Thogard

    Did you ask Mr. Wheeler why they chose a solution of their own when formulas exist that are already proven in practice?
    Main characters:
    Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 41 - Stormproof (PC EU)
    Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)

    Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial Necromancer (lvl 8)
    Fearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)
    Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)
    Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDK
    Valirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBlade
    Turuna - AD Altmer magBlade
    Kheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDK
    Kibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - Stormproof
    Yavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWarden
    Azog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWarden
    Vidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDK
    Marquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - Stormproof
    Rawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWarden
    Tu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar

    All chars 50 @ CP 1000+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on Bahlokdaan PC EU.
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Feanor wrote: »
    There is a brilliant solution that would be very much ZOS like because it’s an awesome band-aid fix: Introduction of a „Play now!“ Button that disregards MMR but comes with a 50% damage debuff. Also solves the premade vs PuG Problem elegantly :trollface:;)

    @Thogard

    Did you ask Mr. Wheeler why they chose a solution of their own when formulas exist that are already proven in practice?

    No. I like the ZOS staff and it was a casual brunch that they were hosting for local players, not a hardcore PvP interview. There was no reason to purposely have a combative attitude.
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    I just gave up on bgs, not only are my ques 20 mins, but I still get qued into premades. I would rather have 1 minute ques back and so I will just go to cyrodil instead
    Zebendal- Stam Sorc, PC NA
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    Thogard wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    There is a brilliant solution that would be very much ZOS like because it’s an awesome band-aid fix: Introduction of a „Play now!“ Button that disregards MMR but comes with a 50% damage debuff. Also solves the premade vs PuG Problem elegantly :trollface:;)

    @Thogard

    Did you ask Mr. Wheeler why they chose a solution of their own when formulas exist that are already proven in practice?

    No. I like the ZOS staff and it was a casual brunch that they were hosting for local players, not a hardcore PvP interview. There was no reason to purposely have a combative attitude.

    It’s not a combative question. I just don’t understand why they chose the (allegedly complicated) solution they implemented instead of something else that has been proven to work.
    Main characters:
    Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 41 - Stormproof (PC EU)
    Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)

    Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial Necromancer (lvl 8)
    Fearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)
    Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)
    Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDK
    Valirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBlade
    Turuna - AD Altmer magBlade
    Kheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDK
    Kibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - Stormproof
    Yavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWarden
    Azog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWarden
    Vidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDK
    Marquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - Stormproof
    Rawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWarden
    Tu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar

    All chars 50 @ CP 1000+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on Bahlokdaan PC EU.
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