Snipe exploit?

Lysette

The archer will most likely hear the sound properly - iirc it has a 1.1 second cast time to do the snipe, so it is likely for the archer to hear the shot in time, but the same is not necessarily valid for the target like seen in the video above.

Feanor

jabrone77 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@jabrone77

It’s not different than gap closing into a keep. There you use the gap closer as intended. ZOS has repeatedly said though that doing it repeatedly may get you banned.

Yes, but again, how do you prove intent in this case using this skill? (Snipe) You can't predict when or what the player you're using that skill on sees or hears, or when it occurs. You are just using the skill as intended, in this case. One is being used as an exploit with known side effect, (gap close into keep) one is being used as intended with an unknown side effect. (snipe)
Vastly different scenario. There's no blanket case, like you're trying to make it seem.

Intent is a difficult thing because it is wholly intrinsic. That's why legal system work with crutches, such as "beyond reasonable doubt" or "accepting that damage could be caused". By your definition gap closing into keeps isn't an exploit either because you can't prove intent. In fact, most things in ESO wouldn't be an exploit because intent can't be established. If you use an addon in the intended way and a bug gives you two mundus stones or permament major evasion, are these exploits? The user did everything as intended. It's a slippery slope. I have the opinion that if a player constantly can reproduce glitches like the above then that's more than just using abilities as intended. But that's just me.

DDuke

Vaoh wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Also I don’t think there is an “exploit” with Snipe. It’s just super buggy. Has been for a long time, but Snipe builds got buffed quite a bit in Summerset.

What would be ok, if there would be a sound clue in time to dodge out of it - but without such a sound clue, meh.

That’s just one of many issues:
- No sound queue
- Stacking Snipes
- Health desyncing

Those are the bugs, and they are consistent. Even when not stealthed there are sometimes issues, but the majority of them happen when a stealthed target casts Snipe.

Probably never gonna change. I’m serious btw, I’m going to make the most disgusting Snipe build anyone has ever seen and probably post of vid of it. It has been bugged since launch. Unless it starts to wreck Cyrodiil ZOS won’t do anything.

Morag Tong/Shear Venom.

There are a lot more things which could be stacked - like forcing a guaranteed critical with massive critical damage from stealth, quickly followed by the 2nd and 3rd hit - without a sound clue this is just lethal with no way to protect against it other than very high health and even that might not help in the end. The issue is the missing sound clue - one could easily dodge that when hearing it in time and react to it instinctively.

Or you can just deal the same damage instantly by slotting Asylum Bow & (now undodgeable btw) Bombard :P

Snipe->Snipe=2s
Snipe->LA+Bombard=1s & more damage

Snipe->Snipe->Snipe=3s
Snipe->LA+Bombard->LA+Bombard=2s & more or less the same damage

Snipe Spam can stay super far away though, with the whole attack being impossible to react to.

Even the Asylum Bow combo is too strong imo. The burst Dmg is so high that it drops most builds to low health immediately. Morag Tong/Sheer Venom/Swamp Raider/Marksmans can be comboed with each other in any way to push the damage crazy high.

Snipe is the problem with everything tbh. Damage is too high and the skill itself buggy asf.

You will never kill a good player (or even semi-decent) by spamming snipe, your damage is limited to 5-6k/second on average while damage shields are 10k+/second and negate crits entirely (meaning your damage is really more like 4k/second).
Practically the only chance of killing someone semi-decent is to catch them by surprise (someone paying attention can still see the dmg numbers/health bar going down) with an animation glitch like in the video, which I doubt can be consistently reproduced.

Blocking+healing also outheals snipe spam & dodge roll builds are just completely unkillable for that setup unless you manage to deal 20k+ damage before they can CC break (i.e. within 1-2s) & start dodge roll spamming while Vigor/Rally heals them up.

Reflect also shuts that down entirely. It also shuts down Asylum Snipe though, but Bombard lets you deal some damage & kite those builds atleast.


As for snipe being too strong in Asylum Bow combo... It deals less damage than a sorc Rune Cage combo and can actually be reacted to with a dodge roll/block and it requires perfect positioning to land it.

You usually get one shot at killing people with it, after which you're at a severe disadvantage since landing a subsequent combo is incredibly difficult.

I don't think that's something you can call "overpowered". Strong, sure - but there aren't really other strong aspects when it comes to playing a bow build.


The damage of snipe (without Hawk Eye stacks) is less than Crystal Blast/Frags, Relentless Focus, Dark Flare & only a bit higher than instant cast Warden birds from a high damage build.

Even with a proper setup that certainly doesn't include Swamp Raider (one of the worst sets in the game). Bow sets in terms of damage increase:

1. NMG (max 28m sniping only! You need Light Attack/Bombard to land first for the Major Fracture to apply to Snipe)
2. Spriggan (vs no dmg shields)
3. 3x Agi 1x Kena 1x Kra'gh (if you use it to unlock 5/1/1 setup, as most good bow sets are medium only)
4. Morag Tong (max 28m sniping only! You need Light Attack/Bombard to land first for the Morag debuff to apply to target before Snipe lands)
5. Automaton (if you run Focused Aim)
6. Hawk's Eye
7. Archer's Mind (unless you aim to maximize damage of one snipe only)
8. Marksman
9. Sheer Venom (max 28m sniping only! You need damage tick from Sheer Venom for this to be worthwhile - first damage tick that can proc it is 2s after PI application)
10. Hunding's Rage
11. ...Swamp Raider (max 28m sniping only! Requires a magicka skill to land first & doesn't buff the light attack portion of burst at all)

Lysette

Feanor wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@jabrone77

It’s not different than gap closing into a keep. There you use the gap closer as intended. ZOS has repeatedly said though that doing it repeatedly may get you banned.

Yes, but again, how do you prove intent in this case using this skill? (Snipe) You can't predict when or what the player you're using that skill on sees or hears, or when it occurs. You are just using the skill as intended, in this case. One is being used as an exploit with known side effect, (gap close into keep) one is being used as intended with an unknown side effect. (snipe)
Vastly different scenario. There's no blanket case, like you're trying to make it seem.

Intent is a difficult thing because it is wholly intrinsic. That's why legal system work with crutches, such as "beyond reasonable doubt" or "accepting that damage could be caused". By your definition gap closing into keeps isn't an exploit either because you can't prove intent. In fact, most things in ESO wouldn't be an exploit because intent can't be established. If you use an addon in the intended way and a bug gives you two mundus stones or permament major evasion, are these exploits? The user did everything as intended. It's a slippery slope. I have the opinion that if a player constantly can reproduce glitches like the above then that's more than just using abilities as intended. But that's just me.

I would say a fair player has some feeling for what feels appropriate and what is clearly not as in intended because it gives an advantage which is just out of bounds of the normal. Those exploiting are giving a damn about fairness in this case and overuse it. If I am more or less godlike with some ability, something is wrong, that's for certain, it should not be that way and then it is an exploit to carry on with it instead to report a potential bug. We agreed in the TOS, that we won't exploit things, which can be seen as out of bounds. Gap closing to get into a keep is in a grey area, depends on how it is done and given that a similar mechanic is in a couple of other zenimax group games, it is a very questionable exploit to me anyway. How could someone know who never reads forums?

themaddaedra

Here is a video:

https://youtu.be/IM6SWW_vmXk

I first thought it was invisible lag. If that's an exploit, best thing i would offer in return would be a perma ban. I just can't stand to see that kind of people.

Vaoh

DDuke wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Also I don’t think there is an “exploit” with Snipe. It’s just super buggy. Has been for a long time, but Snipe builds got buffed quite a bit in Summerset.

What would be ok, if there would be a sound clue in time to dodge out of it - but without such a sound clue, meh.

That’s just one of many issues:
- No sound queue
- Stacking Snipes
- Health desyncing

Those are the bugs, and they are consistent. Even when not stealthed there are sometimes issues, but the majority of them happen when a stealthed target casts Snipe.

Probably never gonna change. I’m serious btw, I’m going to make the most disgusting Snipe build anyone has ever seen and probably post of vid of it. It has been bugged since launch. Unless it starts to wreck Cyrodiil ZOS won’t do anything.

Morag Tong/Shear Venom.

There are a lot more things which could be stacked - like forcing a guaranteed critical with massive critical damage from stealth, quickly followed by the 2nd and 3rd hit - without a sound clue this is just lethal with no way to protect against it other than very high health and even that might not help in the end. The issue is the missing sound clue - one could easily dodge that when hearing it in time and react to it instinctively.

Or you can just deal the same damage instantly by slotting Asylum Bow & (now undodgeable btw) Bombard :P

Snipe->Snipe=2s
Snipe->LA+Bombard=1s & more damage

Snipe->Snipe->Snipe=3s
Snipe->LA+Bombard->LA+Bombard=2s & more or less the same damage

Snipe Spam can stay super far away though, with the whole attack being impossible to react to.

Even the Asylum Bow combo is too strong imo. The burst Dmg is so high that it drops most builds to low health immediately. Morag Tong/Sheer Venom/Swamp Raider/Marksmans can be comboed with each other in any way to push the damage crazy high.

Snipe is the problem with everything tbh. Damage is too high and the skill itself buggy asf.

You will never kill a good player (or even semi-decent) by spamming snipe, your damage is limited to 5-6k/second on average while damage shields are 10k+/second and negate crits entirely (meaning your damage is really more like 4k/second).
Practically the only chance of killing someone semi-decent is to catch them by surprise (someone paying attention can still see the dmg numbers/health bar going down) with an animation glitch like in the video, which I doubt can be consistently reproduced.

Blocking+healing also outheals snipe spam & dodge roll builds are just completely unkillable for that setup unless you manage to deal 20k+ damage before they can CC break (i.e. within 1-2s) & start dodge roll spamming while Vigor/Rally heals them up.

Reflect also shuts that down entirely. It also shuts down Asylum Snipe though, but Bombard lets you deal some damage & kite those builds atleast.


As for snipe being too strong in Asylum Bow combo... It deals less damage than a sorc Rune Cage combo and can actually be reacted to with a dodge roll/block and it requires perfect positioning to land it.

You usually get one shot at killing people with it, after which you're at a severe disadvantage since landing a subsequent combo is incredibly difficult.

I don't think that's something you can call "overpowered". Strong, sure - but there aren't really other strong aspects when it comes to playing a bow build.


The damage of snipe (without Hawk Eye stacks) is less than Crystal Blast/Frags, Relentless Focus, Dark Flare & only a bit higher than instant cast Warden birds from a high damage build.

Even with a proper setup that certainly doesn't include Swamp Raider (one of the worst sets in the game). Bow sets in terms of damage increase:

1. NMG (max 28m sniping only! You need Light Attack/Bombard to land first for the Major Fracture to apply to Snipe)
2. Spriggan (vs no dmg shields)
3. 3x Agi 1x Kena 1x Kra'gh (if you use it to unlock 5/1/1 setup, as most good bow sets are medium only)
4. Morag Tong (max 28m sniping only! You need Light Attack/Bombard to land first for the Morag debuff to apply to target before Snipe lands)
5. Automaton (if you run Focused Aim)
6. Hawk's Eye
7. Archer's Mind (unless you aim to maximize damage of one snipe only)
8. Marksman
9. Sheer Venom (max 28m sniping only! You need damage tick from Sheer Venom for this to be worthwhile - first damage tick that can proc it is 2s after PI application)
10. Hunding's Rage
11. ...Swamp Raider (max 28m sniping only! Requires a magicka skill to land first & doesn't buff the light attack portion of burst at all)

I agree with most of what you said. Swamp Raider is much better than you think though, just not for attacks from stealth ofc.

Snipe itself isn’t broken in the damage it deals. It’s broken because of the bugs involved with it. Stacked Snipes with no audio queue can kill anyone if you wait for an opportunity.

Lysette

themaddaedra wrote: »

Here is a video:

https://youtu.be/IM6SWW_vmXk

I first thought it was invisible lag. If that's an exploit, best thing i would offer in return would be a perma ban. I just can't stand to see that kind of people.

now that is ridiculous, how is that even fun - no visual clues, no sound clues, and the stats display is lagging behind like crazy - you cannot even say that it was a sniper- there was just nothing to see in that video about any attack.

DDuke

themaddaedra wrote: »

Here is a video:

https://youtu.be/IM6SWW_vmXk

I first thought it was invisible lag. If that's an exploit, best thing i would offer in return would be a perma ban. I just can't stand to see that kind of people.

That's the health desync one (animations also missing, and apparently sound too ).

First snipe lands at 0:13 (you can see the break free prompt & debuffs) but isn't reflected visually on your screen. Second snipe lands 1s after and kills you.

They definitely need to fix that ***, I don't see how it's possible to react to that especially with 180ms+


Atleast it was a decent sniper that killed you, very few non-Asylum builds can do 21k damage in 2 hits

Lysette

DDuke wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Here is a video:

https://youtu.be/IM6SWW_vmXk

I first thought it was invisible lag. If that's an exploit, best thing i would offer in return would be a perma ban. I just can't stand to see that kind of people.

That's the health desync one (animations also missing, and apparently sound too ).

First snipe lands at 0:13 (you can see the break free prompt & debuffs) but isn't reflected visually on your screen. Second snipe lands 1s after and kills you.

They definitely need to fix that ***, I don't see how it's possible to react to that especially with 180ms+


Atleast it was a decent sniper that killed you, very few non-Asylum builds can do 21k damage in 2 hits

And with no addon you would see nothing at all - just dying from a heart attack I guess

themaddaedra

DDuke wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Here is a video:

https://youtu.be/IM6SWW_vmXk

I first thought it was invisible lag. If that's an exploit, best thing i would offer in return would be a perma ban. I just can't stand to see that kind of people.

That's the health desync one (animations also missing, and apparently sound too ).

First snipe lands at 0:13 (you can see the break free prompt & debuffs) but isn't reflected visually on your screen. Second snipe lands 1s after and kills you.

They definitely need to fix that ***, I don't see how it's possible to react to that especially with 180ms+


Atleast it was a decent sniper that killed you, very few non-Asylum builds can do 21k damage in 2 hits

I'm squishy af tho, it's a fully burst bombblade with like zero resistance. I think anyone with a decent gear and this bug could kill me easily

Funny thing is when i posted this on forums back then, people blamed me for looking at the map in front of a keep. Apparently it was my fault

ezio45

oh great, an even better way for sloads shieldbreakers snipes spammers to kill me

JobooAGS

Exploit? How does one exploit by simply spamming your number 2 key or whatever snipe is on? So what? ban everyone who uses snipe more than once in a row? No, I do not use snipe, but calling for bans for people using it is the equalivent of banning zergs because the issue sounds like a lag/server issue rather than a skill issue

LUC1D7

This is not a health desync bug. This exploit has been there for years now. The only reason I even know about this bug was by complete accident. I was strolling around in cyro and came across a blue who was a a decent sized streamer. He wasn't currently streaming. He and his buddy were just standing there. Next thing you know I die. I said wtf. He sent me a party invite and was talking to me about what was going on. Said he was testing to see if this still existed because people were exploiting it all of sudden.

Not sure if these people ever reported it. It sometimes goes unreported because everyone chalks it up to a health desync lag. It is not. There are specific things to do to achieve this. Snipe is one of the best skills to use doing this glitch because it's ranged and powerful. Some people will chalk it up that they just weren't paying attention and died.

If any admins want further details on this please pm me. I bet this is the same exploit that was shown to me long ago. I could have sworn I reported it myself too but can't remember honestly.

Vaoh

themaddaedra wrote: »

Here is a video:

https://youtu.be/IM6SWW_vmXk

I first thought it was invisible lag. If that's an exploit, best thing i would offer in return would be a perma ban. I just can't stand to see that kind of people.

ZOS won’t fix Snipe until this becomes extremely commonplace

This is one of those situations where it needs to abused worse than ever. Nothing else will prompt ZOS to put time toward fixing the bugs.

It sucks but I really believe this is the only way it’ll ever get fixed.

UppGRAYxDD

lmao....Im guessing most dont remember the days of camo hunter snipers...you think this is bad?

oXI_Viper_IXo

I know exactly what the OP is talking about, though I don't think this is a new thing. Before you hear anything or are able to react in any way, all your resources immediately drop to zero and bam, you're dead. This is not regular sniping. I don't know if it's a bug or a glitch or a desync or an exploit, but this does happen every once in awhile and it seems to be the same players doing it. I'm not against snipe at all, but when you have absolutely zero chance to react, something is majorly wrong. I will be sure to record it next time.

JobooAGS

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

I know exactly what the OP is talking about, though I don't think this is a new thing. Before you hear anything or are able to react in any way, all your resources immediately drop to zero and bam, you're dead. This is not regular sniping. I don't know if it's a bug or a glitch or a desync or an exploit, but this does happen every once in awhile and it seems to be the same players doing it. I'm not against snipe at all, but when you have absolutely zero chance to react, something is majorly wrong. I will be sure to record it next time.

Someone should record this from the sniper's end

Serjustin19

It's not new and it's lag. Trust me, even when invisible person hit me with sword once. It was lag. It was super fast)

White wabbit

It's lag I had a dragon leap , permafrost and wrecking blow on me yesterday, I didn't see any of them but was dead in an instant it's purely lag

Sanctum74

It's just lag and it's getting worse as they keep ignoring performance issues. It's happening with more skills lately and even from npc's and I don't think npc's are cheating, lol.

It's very common to get hit with 4 snipes at once, 3-4 oils ticks at once, and even got hit with 2 curses at the same time from the same player the other day. Good times

devilsTear

This is happening on ps4 too, it's not the usual health desync bug but apparently caused with an emote but I'm not sure how its done.

Datthaw

jabrone77 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

This isn't an exploit, but rather a bug, the one shooting the arrow might even hear the swish sound in time, just the target does not. This is a technical issue which should be addressed by the guys working on the new multi-core support IMO.

I agree. All this talk about banning players for using a skill that may be bugged is leading down a dangerous path. By this logic, if executioner were to become bugged, you'd be calling for at least half of Cyrodiil to be banned for exploiting.
It's getting silly.

I don't know how else to explain this to you. Me and this guy have a history, he always plays a snipe spammer. It's gotten to the point some night we stalk eachother around zergs to mark and kill eachother. Just recently he has been pulling this BS ever time I get marked. If that is not abusing a bug/exploit w/e then idk what is.

Datthaw

JobooAGS wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

I know exactly what the OP is talking about, though I don't think this is a new thing. Before you hear anything or are able to react in any way, all your resources immediately drop to zero and bam, you're dead. This is not regular sniping. I don't know if it's a bug or a glitch or a desync or an exploit, but this does happen every once in awhile and it seems to be the same players doing it. I'm not against snipe at all, but when you have absolutely zero chance to react, something is majorly wrong. I will be sure to record it next time.

Someone should record this from the sniper's end

Yeah I would be interested to see what it looks like on thier end

Datthaw

To everyone who says "it's just lag" it's not.

"How dare you ask for bans" is it really so crazy when I know someone is intentionally exploiting something?

There is a serious glitch/bug/desync whatever label you put on it happening here. I never would have noticed if I wasn't mortal enemies with a snipe spammer who actually plays the roll pretty well (god it kills me to give him some credit)

Just look at the videos dduke, and themaddaedra posted and form your own opinions of wtf this is

Vaoh

JobooAGS wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

I know exactly what the OP is talking about, though I don't think this is a new thing. Before you hear anything or are able to react in any way, all your resources immediately drop to zero and bam, you're dead. This is not regular sniping. I don't know if it's a bug or a glitch or a desync or an exploit, but this does happen every once in awhile and it seems to be the same players doing it. I'm not against snipe at all, but when you have absolutely zero chance to react, something is majorly wrong. I will be sure to record it next time.

Someone should record this from the sniper's end

It looks normal to the caster. Health goes down at the normal rate with no desyncs.

To the target and those looking at the target, it is super buggy.

At least this is from my own experience after years of PvP with only like..... 20hrs as an actual Snipe build lol.

Prabooo

if you're in Cyro:

1) keep yer shields up

2) block any incoming attack... it may sound silly, but 99% of the times we die in PvP is lack of blocking

Sanctum74

Datthaw wrote: »

To everyone who says "it's just lag" it's not.

"How dare you ask for bans" is it really so crazy when I know someone is intentionally exploiting something?

There is a serious glitch/bug/desync whatever label you put on it happening here. I never would have noticed if I wasn't mortal enemies with a snipe spammer who actually plays the roll pretty well (god it kills me to give him some credit)

Just look at the videos dduke, and themaddaedra posted and form your own opinions of wtf this is

So if it's not lag then how do you explain it happening from npc's, oils, and other skills? Banning a player because a game is broken is just wrong.

Maybe if people would put even half as much effort into holding Zos accountable instead of blaming other players then these game breaking issues would have been fixed years ago, but instead we fight each other and continue to feed the crown cash cow expecting something will change.

Datthaw

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

To everyone who says "it's just lag" it's not.

"How dare you ask for bans" is it really so crazy when I know someone is intentionally exploiting something?

There is a serious glitch/bug/desync whatever label you put on it happening here. I never would have noticed if I wasn't mortal enemies with a snipe spammer who actually plays the roll pretty well (god it kills me to give him some credit)

Just look at the videos dduke, and themaddaedra posted and form your own opinions of wtf this is

So if it's not lag then how do you explain it happening from npc's, oils, and other skills? Banning a player because a game is broken is just wrong.

Maybe if people would put even half as much effort into holding Zos accountable instead of blaming other players then these game breaking issues would have been fixed years ago, but instead we fight each other and continue to feed the crown cash cow expecting something will change.

Did you even watch the videos linked that I said to watch? Or were you just wanted to put your point in here regardless

Datthaw

Prabooo wrote: »

if you're in Cyro:

1) keep yer shields up

2) block any incoming attack... it may sound silly, but 99% of the times we die in PvP is lack of blocking

Just watch the videos. No one is gonna just walk around holding block all the time

DHale

Yes report ZOS lag exploit.