Why is Sload's still not nerfed?
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Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »will zos please change this set already! it took them a week to change the new trial sets >_<
this again?
all you have to do is cast Purge and sloads is removed instantly.
sloads does not need changed, nor nerfed.
just cast alliance skill "purge" and your cleansed from it. it will take another 6 seconds before it can proc again and in addition to that, if you are getting hit by multiple sloads from a zerg then you are allready going to die from the zerg of people attacking you, all you can do at that point is purge, cleanse, and stick with your group or zerg, and btw, you would have died anyway from the amount of people attacking you.
TLDR:
"just cast purge and sloads is removed"
so WTB purge costing less than half on my magica + additional skill slot only to counter SINGLE PROC SET0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »will zos please change this set already! it took them a week to change the new trial sets >_<
this again?
all you have to do is cast Purge and sloads is removed instantly.
sloads does not need changed, nor nerfed.
just cast alliance skill "purge" and your cleansed from it. it will take another 6 seconds before it can proc again and in addition to that, if you are getting hit by multiple sloads from a zerg then you are allready going to die from the zerg of people attacking you, all you can do at that point is purge, cleanse, and stick with your group or zerg, and btw, you would have died anyway from the amount of people attacking you.
TLDR:
"just cast purge and sloads is removed"
so WTB purge costing less than half on my magica + additional skill slot only to counter SINGLE PROC SET
so, whats the problem here?
you use the counter or dont use it.
iehter way the counter to sloads is there.
sloads is counterable. set needs no changes just because one refuses to counter with purge skill.0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »will zos please change this set already! it took them a week to change the new trial sets >_<
this again?
all you have to do is cast Purge and sloads is removed instantly.
sloads does not need changed, nor nerfed.
just cast alliance skill "purge" and your cleansed from it. it will take another 6 seconds before it can proc again and in addition to that, if you are getting hit by multiple sloads from a zerg then you are allready going to die from the zerg of people attacking you, all you can do at that point is purge, cleanse, and stick with your group or zerg, and btw, you would have died anyway from the amount of people attacking you.
TLDR:
"just cast purge and sloads is removed"
so WTB purge costing less than half on my magica + additional skill slot only to counter SINGLE PROC SET
so, whats the problem here?
you use the counter or dont use it.
iehter way the counter to sloads is there.
sloads is counterable. set needs no changes just because one refuses to counter with purge skill.
stam going to use purge?
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »will zos please change this set already! it took them a week to change the new trial sets >_<
this again?
all you have to do is cast Purge and sloads is removed instantly.
sloads does not need changed, nor nerfed.
just cast alliance skill "purge" and your cleansed from it. it will take another 6 seconds before it can proc again and in addition to that, if you are getting hit by multiple sloads from a zerg then you are allready going to die from the zerg of people attacking you, all you can do at that point is purge, cleanse, and stick with your group or zerg, and btw, you would have died anyway from the amount of people attacking you.
TLDR:
"just cast purge and sloads is removed"
so WTB purge costing less than half on my magica + additional skill slot only to counter SINGLE PROC SET
so, whats the problem here?
you use the counter or dont use it.
iehter way the counter to sloads is there.
sloads is counterable. set needs no changes just because one refuses to counter with purge skill.
stam going to use purge?
how can anyone help you if you refuse to accept that help.
here is the situation, we all have access to purge on, its obtainable by all.
just slot it and you have a counter to sloads armor set used against you.1 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »will zos please change this set already! it took them a week to change the new trial sets >_<
this again?
all you have to do is cast Purge and sloads is removed instantly.
sloads does not need changed, nor nerfed.
just cast alliance skill "purge" and your cleansed from it. it will take another 6 seconds before it can proc again and in addition to that, if you are getting hit by multiple sloads from a zerg then you are allready going to die from the zerg of people attacking you, all you can do at that point is purge, cleanse, and stick with your group or zerg, and btw, you would have died anyway from the amount of people attacking you.
TLDR:
"just cast purge and sloads is removed"
so WTB purge costing less than half on my magica + additional skill slot only to counter SINGLE PROC SET
so, whats the problem here?
you use the counter or dont use it.
iehter way the counter to sloads is there.
sloads is counterable. set needs no changes just because one refuses to counter with purge skill.
stam going to use purge?
how can anyone help you if you refuse to accept that help.
here is the situation, we all have access to purge on, its obtainable by all.
just slot it and you have a counter to sloads armor set used against you.
oh i agree if they dont to anything about this set its the best option but it still completely sucks and if a solution ppl will be forced to run do to this garbage set
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Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Purge becomes more or less useless the moment you have more than 2 debuffs on you. So pretty much always ...2 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »will zos please change this set already! it took them a week to change the new trial sets >_<
this again?
all you have to do is cast Purge and sloads is removed instantly.
sloads does not need changed, nor nerfed.
just cast alliance skill "purge" and your cleansed from it. it will take another 6 seconds before it can proc again and in addition to that, if you are getting hit by multiple sloads from a zerg then you are allready going to die from the zerg of people attacking you, all you can do at that point is purge, cleanse, and stick with your group or zerg, and btw, you would have died anyway from the amount of people attacking you.
TLDR:
"just cast purge and sloads is removed"
so WTB purge costing less than half on my magica + additional skill slot only to counter SINGLE PROC SET
so, whats the problem here?
you use the counter or dont use it.
iehter way the counter to sloads is there.
sloads is counterable. set needs no changes just because one refuses to counter with purge skill.
stam going to use purge?
how can anyone help you if you refuse to accept that help.
here is the situation, we all have access to purge on, its obtainable by all.
just slot it and you have a counter to sloads armor set used against you.
oh i agree if they dont to anything about this set its the best option but it still completely sucks and if a solution ppl will be forced to run do to this garbage set
you can still hold onto your build.
zenimax has simply made a set that counters your particular build.
the same thing goes for shield breaker set. just have to change your build to counter the counter set thats countering your build.0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »will zos please change this set already! it took them a week to change the new trial sets >_<
this again?
all you have to do is cast Purge and sloads is removed instantly.
sloads does not need changed, nor nerfed.
just cast alliance skill "purge" and your cleansed from it. it will take another 6 seconds before it can proc again and in addition to that, if you are getting hit by multiple sloads from a zerg then you are allready going to die from the zerg of people attacking you, all you can do at that point is purge, cleanse, and stick with your group or zerg, and btw, you would have died anyway from the amount of people attacking you.
TLDR:
"just cast purge and sloads is removed"
so WTB purge costing less than half on my magica + additional skill slot only to counter SINGLE PROC SET
so, whats the problem here?
you use the counter or dont use it.
iehter way the counter to sloads is there.
sloads is counterable. set needs no changes just because one refuses to counter with purge skill.
what is my problem? well
max magica is around 10k and lesss on noncp
1.3k mag reg just with dring for regens with not max stats so im undear 16k hp in noncp jsut to be able spam jsut cloak some more on stam build
cloak cost me 3.7k mag and is almost 3 sec duration, add to this purge after morph costing 5k max mag
so at start from 10k max mag I have aound 2k max mag+ 1kadditional after regen tick when I use purge and then cloak
now I have max mag only for 2nd cloak and this will ba all
can go also for other foodbuff with max stats and only max stam regen with which I wonth have magice even for 2nd cloak
in shortcut:
sload on me > cant cloak> death
sload on me > purge > cloak> death because single cloak dont give my much time to escape away enought to LoS but even if was arount wall or something people just spam aoe here as they know I dont have any oother place to run away
purge will only extend my life existence in bg by maybe full 4 seconds? which is meaningless in situation like thisEdited by Edziu on May 27, 2018 6:09PM1 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »will zos please change this set already! it took them a week to change the new trial sets >_<
this again?
all you have to do is cast Purge and sloads is removed instantly.
sloads does not need changed, nor nerfed.
just cast alliance skill "purge" and your cleansed from it. it will take another 6 seconds before it can proc again and in addition to that, if you are getting hit by multiple sloads from a zerg then you are allready going to die from the zerg of people attacking you, all you can do at that point is purge, cleanse, and stick with your group or zerg, and btw, you would have died anyway from the amount of people attacking you.
TLDR:
"just cast purge and sloads is removed"
so WTB purge costing less than half on my magica + additional skill slot only to counter SINGLE PROC SET
so, whats the problem here?
you use the counter or dont use it.
iehter way the counter to sloads is there.
sloads is counterable. set needs no changes just because one refuses to counter with purge skill.
stam going to use purge?
how can anyone help you if you refuse to accept that help.
here is the situation, we all have access to purge on, its obtainable by all.
just slot it and you have a counter to sloads armor set used against you.
oh i agree if they dont to anything about this set its the best option but it still completely sucks and if a solution ppl will be forced to run do to this garbage set
you can still hold onto your build.
zenimax has simply made a set that counters your particular build.
the same thing goes for shield breaker set. just have to change your build to counter the counter set thats countering your build.
doesnt counter my playstyle, mine just gets caught in the crossfire. the set was designed to counter nbs which is just and screwed up as shield breaker is. and it negatively impacts medium armor build, nbs and sorcs. and compounds the existing problems of resource poisons and defile0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »will zos please change this set already! it took them a week to change the new trial sets >_<
this again?
all you have to do is cast Purge and sloads is removed instantly.
sloads does not need changed, nor nerfed.
just cast alliance skill "purge" and your cleansed from it. it will take another 6 seconds before it can proc again and in addition to that, if you are getting hit by multiple sloads from a zerg then you are allready going to die from the zerg of people attacking you, all you can do at that point is purge, cleanse, and stick with your group or zerg, and btw, you would have died anyway from the amount of people attacking you.
TLDR:
"just cast purge and sloads is removed"
so WTB purge costing less than half on my magica + additional skill slot only to counter SINGLE PROC SET
so, whats the problem here?
you use the counter or dont use it.
iehter way the counter to sloads is there.
sloads is counterable. set needs no changes just because one refuses to counter with purge skill.
what is my problem? well
max magica is around 10k and lesss on noncp
1.3k mag reg just with dring for regens with not max stats so im undear 16k hp in noncp jsut to be able spam jsut cloak some more on stam build
cloak cost me 3.7k stam and is almsot 3 sec duration, add to this purge after morph costing 5k max mag
so at start from 10k max mag I have aound 2k max mag+ 1kadditional after regen tick when I use purge and then cloak
now I have max mag only for 2nd cloak and this will ba all
can go also for other foodbuff with max stats and only max stam regen with which I wonth have magice even for 2nd cloak
in shortcut:
sload on me > cant cloak> death
sload on me > purge > cloak> death because single cloak dont give my much time to escape away enought to LoS but even if was arount wall or something people just spam aoe here as they know I dont have any oother place to run away
purge will only extend my life existence in bg by maybe full 4 seconds? which is meaningless in situation like this
^ well stated except you meant clock cost magic0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »will zos please change this set already! it took them a week to change the new trial sets >_<
this again?
all you have to do is cast Purge and sloads is removed instantly.
sloads does not need changed, nor nerfed.
just cast alliance skill "purge" and your cleansed from it. it will take another 6 seconds before it can proc again and in addition to that, if you are getting hit by multiple sloads from a zerg then you are allready going to die from the zerg of people attacking you, all you can do at that point is purge, cleanse, and stick with your group or zerg, and btw, you would have died anyway from the amount of people attacking you.
TLDR:
"just cast purge and sloads is removed"
so WTB purge costing less than half on my magica + additional skill slot only to counter SINGLE PROC SET
so, whats the problem here?
you use the counter or dont use it.
iehter way the counter to sloads is there.
sloads is counterable. set needs no changes just because one refuses to counter with purge skill.
what is my problem? well
max magica is around 10k and lesss on noncp
1.3k mag reg just with dring for regens with not max stats so im undear 16k hp in noncp jsut to be able spam jsut cloak some more on stam build
cloak cost me 3.7k stam and is almsot 3 sec duration, add to this purge after morph costing 5k max mag
so at start from 10k max mag I have aound 2k max mag+ 1kadditional after regen tick when I use purge and then cloak
now I have max mag only for 2nd cloak and this will ba all
can go also for other foodbuff with max stats and only max stam regen with which I wonth have magice even for 2nd cloak
in shortcut:
sload on me > cant cloak> death
sload on me > purge > cloak> death because single cloak dont give my much time to escape away enought to LoS but even if was arount wall or something people just spam aoe here as they know I dont have any oother place to run away
purge will only extend my life existence in bg by maybe full 4 seconds? which is meaningless in situation like this
^ well stated except you meant clock cost magic
oops righ, small mistake0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭lets not forget that sloads does roughtly the some amount of damage as shield breaker in 2/3s the time that you only have to worry about procing and can be active regardless if your using a shield or not
shield breaker: cast light attack 1 second wait 2 seconds = 2k * 3 for 6k
sloads: 1 proc 800 over 7 seconds = 5.7k ish
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ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭for this set to be op broken alone for nbs it just had to place a debuff of 6s where they couldnt stealth on then if that isnt disgusting enough to that classes core defense they had to make it do oblivion damage0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »morrowind SP load screen says the following:
"there is nothing to be ashamed of nor wrong with running away or hiding from a fight you know you cannot win, it is better to escape than to die. come back when you are stronger, more prepared, and maybe even bring some friends"
there is nothing wrong with stealthing away to protect yourself, and nothing wrong with running away.
There is nothing right about giving a player the ability to freely escape from any fight with no consequences. If there are no risks, there should be no rewards. No ability in this game should guarantee your survival. While cloak isn't that strong, it is very close.
there is risk, glass cannon for both nb's and magsorc, you have cloak or shield and under this you are glass cannon, if one oth those dont work then you chave only choice to leavy pvp or joing to tank meta and make by it less diversity
about risk for glass cannon you cant deal damage and take other damage at once without acive defense like on magice you need to have mostly 100% uptime shield to not get bursted faster even by tank and on nb you need nonstop ticking hots/shield and cloaking for breakt to get health again
on tank build you just deal damage like mindless bot, you see your health went down to 50% or less, so you push few buttons to heal, buffs and apply HOT and with HOT you still attacking someone without bigger push on you while this glass cannon need to be aware about every hit becasue every hit can take donw over 50% of his health if not aware
so you are wrong, sorcs and nb's have risk for option to escape from fight as being mostly glass cannon wchich can be melted in moment by jsut dots/proc sets on even tank build while the only disadvantage on tank is hie worse mobility without mist form
Last time I checked glass cannon builds couldnt hold pressure of 1vX easily. Sorc and stamblades can. Saying "they're glass cannons under their defenses" is most radicolous think I've ever heared. It's like saying "tank is glass cannon without high resistances block and healing". Fact that magsorc or stamblade defenses are based on different rules then regular tank builds doesnt mean they're glass cannon. They just have different defense requiring different playstyle but this defense is still strong and what is most funny sometimes even stronger then mentioned tanks defenses.
As for the definition of glass cannon beeing build that when he's not watching carefully he can get health easily dropped down under 50% it's just part of the true. Yes glass cannon builds need to watch out because they can get their heatlh easily dropped down and then things start to be nasty because refreshing health back to decent values is problematic. This is not the case with magsorc or stamblade. They can restore health back to full very easily and without issues. Cloak stops any incoming dmg completly so You'll be able to restore Your health without huge pressure. Healing ward is stronger with lower health so basicly lower Your health is stronger Your defense becomes. It's not like this basic defenses cant be connected with other things to create very strong and reliable defense combos. For stamblade it's cloak , roll dodge , shade , fear , for magsorc it's healing ward, hardened ward , annulment , dark deal , streak. And this is just abilities list. There is also lot of sets that supports this 2 builds defenses in much stronger ways then it would do for other builds.
You can say "yeah but other classes can also roll dodge same like other classes can also shieldstack". The problem is stamblade takes the highest adventage of roll dodging because of what he can connect it with , magsorc takes the highest adventage of shieldstacking because of 1 additional shield and what he can connect it with.
Calling magsorc or stamblade glass cannons this days only because their defenses are different from tank defenses is silly. If You want to see how glass cannon looks like try low recovery dual wield stamplar for example. You'll see difference between this build and magsorc/stamblade instantly.
well but if you want go for those defences :cloak or shields you are mainly forced to go in glass cannon and dont say to try go without regens because it can work only for ganker or zerger
you in heavy armor go with lesser regens than medium/light armor but you have passive in heavy armore to giving back resourced when damaged (yes I know it got big nerf but at all its how heavy is working for sustain)
yes I can cloak in tankly buil but will do it maybe 2, max 3 times i short time and cant do more, same is with shields but it can work only with magsorc as only he have good class damage shield outside armor but at all it wont be to much efficient to him on heavy, better will be jsut to go into full tankinies without even thinking for shieldstack
and without cloak and shields well...we have every 5 classes looking same and working similiar..the only difference is just colour of skills lol
and as nb's strong power for glass cannon and sorcs you know..we have tool to break in 100% their full defences
dont let nb in medium enter to cloak...just dots will melt him
as for sorc take shieldbreaker and spam mindlessly LA and this is bypassing all deefence of sorc (will also mention to add sload which we have today and sorc is just getting rekt with this)
and the only mechanic efficient agaisnt those tank are jsut bleed dot builds but hey! they work even more efficient against those glass cannon build ( only nb can have advantage in defense to this bul until is cloak and nothing is breaking this) and sorc shields are melthing even more with these dost because shields dont have resists etc so basic damage without cirts is just melthing those shields very fast
If You can hold Your ground against enemie and You have reliable source of defense then You're not glass cannon. Fact that Your health can be dropped down faster if You dont watch out doesnt make You glass cannon. Both magsorcs and stamblades have reliable sources of defense very high damage and more then enough sustain to easily deal with the fact they take more dmg from hits then tanks. Like I said already having different defense then tank doesnt make You glass cannon if you can still survive. Glass cannon is the build that when he is unable to do keep constant dmg pressure or his dmg combo fails it means he will be instantly dead without any ways to prevent that from happening. Is stamblade or magsorc having that issue ? I dont think so.
You can cloak more time in heavy armor build then in medium armor one since heavy armor provides also magicka restoring which medium armor dont have. The difference is that people adapting their builds to certain playstyles and this is why medium armor users have option to cloak more because they invest into magicka recovery . Medium armor itself have nothing to do with it. As for magsorc there is no need to run in heavy why we even touch that ? Is fact that heavy armor is not good for magosrc makes magsorc some kind of worse ?
As for nb's goes it's mostly l2p issue. I know many nb's that can hold their ground pretty decently even when cloak fails just with dodging , using shade and fearing enemie that chase You . All You need is just decent LoS area You can take adventage of and every nb with brain should bring people to that area if he plays PvP alone. If You're in area like that using cloak is not an issue since enemie wont be able to reliably use their cloak counters. As for light attack shieldbreaker spammers if sorc dies to them it's also L2P issue. If someone just brainlesly spams light attacks at You that deals 2k dmg to Your health and You die from it then problem is on Your side. Sorc most of the time starts to panic and brainlesly spam healing ward which doesnt let ability to expoire with heal. Just use healing ward when You're at ~60% health then roll dodge then stun enemie and 1-2 seconds later dodge 1 more time and done You're getting healed to full. You can still keep dmg pressure on enemie that is just brainlesly spamming light attacks with shieldbreaker on You. You can streak through him and use dark deal right after that toi get heal and resources back when enemie is breaking free. When using resto ulti You have 2 seconds window to do dmg on that opponent. You still have surge heals on top of that. Seriously there is no issue to kill LA spammer with shieldbreaker. If situation goes really bad and You know You want win just flee away with blink or pop invisibility pot. It's not like You should be able to kill everyone and win every fight.
Bleed builds sucks against decent magsorc and stamblades. It's not like bleed damage can go through shields or cloak. Shields have 0 resistances anyway so basicly bleeds main feature which is 100% penetration is not working agaisnt shields but shields prevent bleeds from critting so basicly bleeds deal less dmg to shields then to health bar protected by 30k physical and 3k crit resistance. Mechanics afficient agaisnt tanks is just draining them out of resources and using CC's that goes through block and guess what sorc and nb have 2 most reliable stuns like that. There are tank builds that can do pretty decent dmg that's a fact but this is more of a game ballance issue then reason to think magsorc or stamblade defenses are weak by design.
correction, this entire argument is crap, theres so many things just utterly wrong with this is amazing. If you can hold your ground against players and have a reasonable defense YOU ARE WHAT CLASSES SHOULD BE not a glass cannon, the idea behind glass cannons are bombers, kill a lot of people quickly and die quickly. magsorcs and stamblades take more damage than tanks is just laughable, first off the core of nbs is avoiding damage not taking it a nb with out clock or roll dodge is sqiushier than a sorc without shields.and in what world you things sorcs 14k 6 second shield is comparable to a tanks 40k health and 35k resist is astonishing.
los'ing yes BY ALL MEANS A NB SHOULD HAVE TO USE A TREE AS DEFENSE <- sarcasm
dodge roll what about mnb toons?
sorcs needs to learn to use one of there crap heals before there even below half health, rolldodge x2 so they can use all there stam get stunned and wrecked <- totally a great idea again sarcasm
Using resto ulti give you a whole 2 second to kill your opponent omg 2 seconds, wtf am i going to do with all that extra time
surge is *** in pvp
bleed dmg, no it wont go threw shield just it will use them faster to where you can get to a 16k health bar with 11k resist and 0 crit resist
again sorc resist 11k not 30k
and idk that you point about sorcs and nbs stunning tanks are but ya gl bursting down a take
like omg the salt in this post is literally killing me
Learn to read then learn to play then come back and comment. You literally didnt understood context of anything I said in post You're quoting. Like serioulsy not even 1 thing.
It's like I would talk about cosmic space and You would come here and start correcting me thinking I was talking about keyboard space only because I said "space is huge". If there would be facepalm button here belive me You would earn few ot them already.Edited by Juhasow on May 27, 2018 6:45PM2 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »morrowind SP load screen says the following:
"there is nothing to be ashamed of nor wrong with running away or hiding from a fight you know you cannot win, it is better to escape than to die. come back when you are stronger, more prepared, and maybe even bring some friends"
there is nothing wrong with stealthing away to protect yourself, and nothing wrong with running away.
There is nothing right about giving a player the ability to freely escape from any fight with no consequences. If there are no risks, there should be no rewards. No ability in this game should guarantee your survival. While cloak isn't that strong, it is very close.
there is risk, glass cannon for both nb's and magsorc, you have cloak or shield and under this you are glass cannon, if one oth those dont work then you chave only choice to leavy pvp or joing to tank meta and make by it less diversity
about risk for glass cannon you cant deal damage and take other damage at once without acive defense like on magice you need to have mostly 100% uptime shield to not get bursted faster even by tank and on nb you need nonstop ticking hots/shield and cloaking for breakt to get health again
on tank build you just deal damage like mindless bot, you see your health went down to 50% or less, so you push few buttons to heal, buffs and apply HOT and with HOT you still attacking someone without bigger push on you while this glass cannon need to be aware about every hit becasue every hit can take donw over 50% of his health if not aware
so you are wrong, sorcs and nb's have risk for option to escape from fight as being mostly glass cannon wchich can be melted in moment by jsut dots/proc sets on even tank build while the only disadvantage on tank is hie worse mobility without mist form
Last time I checked glass cannon builds couldnt hold pressure of 1vX easily. Sorc and stamblades can. Saying "they're glass cannons under their defenses" is most radicolous think I've ever heared. It's like saying "tank is glass cannon without high resistances block and healing". Fact that magsorc or stamblade defenses are based on different rules then regular tank builds doesnt mean they're glass cannon. They just have different defense requiring different playstyle but this defense is still strong and what is most funny sometimes even stronger then mentioned tanks defenses.
As for the definition of glass cannon beeing build that when he's not watching carefully he can get health easily dropped down under 50% it's just part of the true. Yes glass cannon builds need to watch out because they can get their heatlh easily dropped down and then things start to be nasty because refreshing health back to decent values is problematic. This is not the case with magsorc or stamblade. They can restore health back to full very easily and without issues. Cloak stops any incoming dmg completly so You'll be able to restore Your health without huge pressure. Healing ward is stronger with lower health so basicly lower Your health is stronger Your defense becomes. It's not like this basic defenses cant be connected with other things to create very strong and reliable defense combos. For stamblade it's cloak , roll dodge , shade , fear , for magsorc it's healing ward, hardened ward , annulment , dark deal , streak. And this is just abilities list. There is also lot of sets that supports this 2 builds defenses in much stronger ways then it would do for other builds.
You can say "yeah but other classes can also roll dodge same like other classes can also shieldstack". The problem is stamblade takes the highest adventage of roll dodging because of what he can connect it with , magsorc takes the highest adventage of shieldstacking because of 1 additional shield and what he can connect it with.
Calling magsorc or stamblade glass cannons this days only because their defenses are different from tank defenses is silly. If You want to see how glass cannon looks like try low recovery dual wield stamplar for example. You'll see difference between this build and magsorc/stamblade instantly.
well but if you want go for those defences :cloak or shields you are mainly forced to go in glass cannon and dont say to try go without regens because it can work only for ganker or zerger
you in heavy armor go with lesser regens than medium/light armor but you have passive in heavy armore to giving back resourced when damaged (yes I know it got big nerf but at all its how heavy is working for sustain)
yes I can cloak in tankly buil but will do it maybe 2, max 3 times i short time and cant do more, same is with shields but it can work only with magsorc as only he have good class damage shield outside armor but at all it wont be to much efficient to him on heavy, better will be jsut to go into full tankinies without even thinking for shieldstack
and without cloak and shields well...we have every 5 classes looking same and working similiar..the only difference is just colour of skills lol
and as nb's strong power for glass cannon and sorcs you know..we have tool to break in 100% their full defences
dont let nb in medium enter to cloak...just dots will melt him
as for sorc take shieldbreaker and spam mindlessly LA and this is bypassing all deefence of sorc (will also mention to add sload which we have today and sorc is just getting rekt with this)
and the only mechanic efficient agaisnt those tank are jsut bleed dot builds but hey! they work even more efficient against those glass cannon build ( only nb can have advantage in defense to this bul until is cloak and nothing is breaking this) and sorc shields are melthing even more with these dost because shields dont have resists etc so basic damage without cirts is just melthing those shields very fast
If You can hold Your ground against enemie and You have reliable source of defense then You're not glass cannon. Fact that Your health can be dropped down faster if You dont watch out doesnt make You glass cannon. Both magsorcs and stamblades have reliable sources of defense very high damage and more then enough sustain to easily deal with the fact they take more dmg from hits then tanks. Like I said already having different defense then tank doesnt make You glass cannon if you can still survive. Glass cannon is the build that when he is unable to do keep constant dmg pressure or his dmg combo fails it means he will be instantly dead without any ways to prevent that from happening. Is stamblade or magsorc having that issue ? I dont think so.
You can cloak more time in heavy armor build then in medium armor one since heavy armor provides also magicka restoring which medium armor dont have. The difference is that people adapting their builds to certain playstyles and this is why medium armor users have option to cloak more because they invest into magicka recovery . Medium armor itself have nothing to do with it. As for magsorc there is no need to run in heavy why we even touch that ? Is fact that heavy armor is not good for magosrc makes magsorc some kind of worse ?
As for nb's goes it's mostly l2p issue. I know many nb's that can hold their ground pretty decently even when cloak fails just with dodging , using shade and fearing enemie that chase You . All You need is just decent LoS area You can take adventage of and every nb with brain should bring people to that area if he plays PvP alone. If You're in area like that using cloak is not an issue since enemie wont be able to reliably use their cloak counters. As for light attack shieldbreaker spammers if sorc dies to them it's also L2P issue. If someone just brainlesly spams light attacks at You that deals 2k dmg to Your health and You die from it then problem is on Your side. Sorc most of the time starts to panic and brainlesly spam healing ward which doesnt let ability to expoire with heal. Just use healing ward when You're at ~60% health then roll dodge then stun enemie and 1-2 seconds later dodge 1 more time and done You're getting healed to full. You can still keep dmg pressure on enemie that is just brainlesly spamming light attacks with shieldbreaker on You. You can streak through him and use dark deal right after that toi get heal and resources back when enemie is breaking free. When using resto ulti You have 2 seconds window to do dmg on that opponent. You still have surge heals on top of that. Seriously there is no issue to kill LA spammer with shieldbreaker. If situation goes really bad and You know You want win just flee away with blink or pop invisibility pot. It's not like You should be able to kill everyone and win every fight.
Bleed builds sucks against decent magsorc and stamblades. It's not like bleed damage can go through shields or cloak. Shields have 0 resistances anyway so basicly bleeds main feature which is 100% penetration is not working agaisnt shields but shields prevent bleeds from critting so basicly bleeds deal less dmg to shields then to health bar protected by 30k physical and 3k crit resistance. Mechanics afficient agaisnt tanks is just draining them out of resources and using CC's that goes through block and guess what sorc and nb have 2 most reliable stuns like that. There are tank builds that can do pretty decent dmg that's a fact but this is more of a game ballance issue then reason to think magsorc or stamblade defenses are weak by design.
correction, this entire argument is crap, theres so many things just utterly wrong with this is amazing. If you can hold your ground against players and have a reasonable defense YOU ARE WHAT CLASSES SHOULD BE not a glass cannon, the idea behind glass cannons are bombers, kill a lot of people quickly and die quickly. magsorcs and stamblades take more damage than tanks is just laughable, first off the core of nbs is avoiding damage not taking it a nb with out clock or roll dodge is sqiushier than a sorc without shields.and in what world you things sorcs 14k 6 second shield is comparable to a tanks 40k health and 35k resist is astonishing.
los'ing yes BY ALL MEANS A NB SHOULD HAVE TO USE A TREE AS DEFENSE <- sarcasm
dodge roll what about mnb toons?
sorcs needs to learn to use one of there crap heals before there even below half health, rolldodge x2 so they can use all there stam get stunned and wrecked <- totally a great idea again sarcasm
Using resto ulti give you a whole 2 second to kill your opponent omg 2 seconds, wtf am i going to do with all that extra time
surge is *** in pvp
bleed dmg, no it wont go threw shield just it will use them faster to where you can get to a 16k health bar with 11k resist and 0 crit resist
again sorc resist 11k not 30k
and idk that you point about sorcs and nbs stunning tanks are but ya gl bursting down a take
like omg the salt in this post is literally killing me
Learn to read then learn to play then come back and comment. You literally didnt understood context of anything I said in post You're quoting. Like serioulsy not even 1 thing.
It's like I would talk about cosmic space and You would come here and start correcting me thinking I was talking about keyboard space only because I said "space is huge". If there would be facepalm button here belive me You would earn few ot them already.
by all means clarify to me then
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ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »morrowind SP load screen says the following:
"there is nothing to be ashamed of nor wrong with running away or hiding from a fight you know you cannot win, it is better to escape than to die. come back when you are stronger, more prepared, and maybe even bring some friends"
there is nothing wrong with stealthing away to protect yourself, and nothing wrong with running away.
There is nothing right about giving a player the ability to freely escape from any fight with no consequences. If there are no risks, there should be no rewards. No ability in this game should guarantee your survival. While cloak isn't that strong, it is very close.
there is risk, glass cannon for both nb's and magsorc, you have cloak or shield and under this you are glass cannon, if one oth those dont work then you chave only choice to leavy pvp or joing to tank meta and make by it less diversity
about risk for glass cannon you cant deal damage and take other damage at once without acive defense like on magice you need to have mostly 100% uptime shield to not get bursted faster even by tank and on nb you need nonstop ticking hots/shield and cloaking for breakt to get health again
on tank build you just deal damage like mindless bot, you see your health went down to 50% or less, so you push few buttons to heal, buffs and apply HOT and with HOT you still attacking someone without bigger push on you while this glass cannon need to be aware about every hit becasue every hit can take donw over 50% of his health if not aware
so you are wrong, sorcs and nb's have risk for option to escape from fight as being mostly glass cannon wchich can be melted in moment by jsut dots/proc sets on even tank build while the only disadvantage on tank is hie worse mobility without mist form
Last time I checked glass cannon builds couldnt hold pressure of 1vX easily. Sorc and stamblades can. Saying "they're glass cannons under their defenses" is most radicolous think I've ever heared. It's like saying "tank is glass cannon without high resistances block and healing". Fact that magsorc or stamblade defenses are based on different rules then regular tank builds doesnt mean they're glass cannon. They just have different defense requiring different playstyle but this defense is still strong and what is most funny sometimes even stronger then mentioned tanks defenses.
As for the definition of glass cannon beeing build that when he's not watching carefully he can get health easily dropped down under 50% it's just part of the true. Yes glass cannon builds need to watch out because they can get their heatlh easily dropped down and then things start to be nasty because refreshing health back to decent values is problematic. This is not the case with magsorc or stamblade. They can restore health back to full very easily and without issues. Cloak stops any incoming dmg completly so You'll be able to restore Your health without huge pressure. Healing ward is stronger with lower health so basicly lower Your health is stronger Your defense becomes. It's not like this basic defenses cant be connected with other things to create very strong and reliable defense combos. For stamblade it's cloak , roll dodge , shade , fear , for magsorc it's healing ward, hardened ward , annulment , dark deal , streak. And this is just abilities list. There is also lot of sets that supports this 2 builds defenses in much stronger ways then it would do for other builds.
You can say "yeah but other classes can also roll dodge same like other classes can also shieldstack". The problem is stamblade takes the highest adventage of roll dodging because of what he can connect it with , magsorc takes the highest adventage of shieldstacking because of 1 additional shield and what he can connect it with.
Calling magsorc or stamblade glass cannons this days only because their defenses are different from tank defenses is silly. If You want to see how glass cannon looks like try low recovery dual wield stamplar for example. You'll see difference between this build and magsorc/stamblade instantly.
well but if you want go for those defences :cloak or shields you are mainly forced to go in glass cannon and dont say to try go without regens because it can work only for ganker or zerger
you in heavy armor go with lesser regens than medium/light armor but you have passive in heavy armore to giving back resourced when damaged (yes I know it got big nerf but at all its how heavy is working for sustain)
yes I can cloak in tankly buil but will do it maybe 2, max 3 times i short time and cant do more, same is with shields but it can work only with magsorc as only he have good class damage shield outside armor but at all it wont be to much efficient to him on heavy, better will be jsut to go into full tankinies without even thinking for shieldstack
and without cloak and shields well...we have every 5 classes looking same and working similiar..the only difference is just colour of skills lol
and as nb's strong power for glass cannon and sorcs you know..we have tool to break in 100% their full defences
dont let nb in medium enter to cloak...just dots will melt him
as for sorc take shieldbreaker and spam mindlessly LA and this is bypassing all deefence of sorc (will also mention to add sload which we have today and sorc is just getting rekt with this)
and the only mechanic efficient agaisnt those tank are jsut bleed dot builds but hey! they work even more efficient against those glass cannon build ( only nb can have advantage in defense to this bul until is cloak and nothing is breaking this) and sorc shields are melthing even more with these dost because shields dont have resists etc so basic damage without cirts is just melthing those shields very fast
If You can hold Your ground against enemie and You have reliable source of defense then You're not glass cannon. Fact that Your health can be dropped down faster if You dont watch out doesnt make You glass cannon. Both magsorcs and stamblades have reliable sources of defense very high damage and more then enough sustain to easily deal with the fact they take more dmg from hits then tanks. Like I said already having different defense then tank doesnt make You glass cannon if you can still survive. Glass cannon is the build that when he is unable to do keep constant dmg pressure or his dmg combo fails it means he will be instantly dead without any ways to prevent that from happening. Is stamblade or magsorc having that issue ? I dont think so.
You can cloak more time in heavy armor build then in medium armor one since heavy armor provides also magicka restoring which medium armor dont have. The difference is that people adapting their builds to certain playstyles and this is why medium armor users have option to cloak more because they invest into magicka recovery . Medium armor itself have nothing to do with it. As for magsorc there is no need to run in heavy why we even touch that ? Is fact that heavy armor is not good for magosrc makes magsorc some kind of worse ?
As for nb's goes it's mostly l2p issue. I know many nb's that can hold their ground pretty decently even when cloak fails just with dodging , using shade and fearing enemie that chase You . All You need is just decent LoS area You can take adventage of and every nb with brain should bring people to that area if he plays PvP alone. If You're in area like that using cloak is not an issue since enemie wont be able to reliably use their cloak counters. As for light attack shieldbreaker spammers if sorc dies to them it's also L2P issue. If someone just brainlesly spams light attacks at You that deals 2k dmg to Your health and You die from it then problem is on Your side. Sorc most of the time starts to panic and brainlesly spam healing ward which doesnt let ability to expoire with heal. Just use healing ward when You're at ~60% health then roll dodge then stun enemie and 1-2 seconds later dodge 1 more time and done You're getting healed to full. You can still keep dmg pressure on enemie that is just brainlesly spamming light attacks with shieldbreaker on You. You can streak through him and use dark deal right after that toi get heal and resources back when enemie is breaking free. When using resto ulti You have 2 seconds window to do dmg on that opponent. You still have surge heals on top of that. Seriously there is no issue to kill LA spammer with shieldbreaker. If situation goes really bad and You know You want win just flee away with blink or pop invisibility pot. It's not like You should be able to kill everyone and win every fight.
Bleed builds sucks against decent magsorc and stamblades. It's not like bleed damage can go through shields or cloak. Shields have 0 resistances anyway so basicly bleeds main feature which is 100% penetration is not working agaisnt shields but shields prevent bleeds from critting so basicly bleeds deal less dmg to shields then to health bar protected by 30k physical and 3k crit resistance. Mechanics afficient agaisnt tanks is just draining them out of resources and using CC's that goes through block and guess what sorc and nb have 2 most reliable stuns like that. There are tank builds that can do pretty decent dmg that's a fact but this is more of a game ballance issue then reason to think magsorc or stamblade defenses are weak by design.
correction, this entire argument is crap, theres so many things just utterly wrong with this is amazing. If you can hold your ground against players and have a reasonable defense YOU ARE WHAT CLASSES SHOULD BE not a glass cannon, the idea behind glass cannons are bombers, kill a lot of people quickly and die quickly. magsorcs and stamblades take more damage than tanks is just laughable, first off the core of nbs is avoiding damage not taking it a nb with out clock or roll dodge is sqiushier than a sorc without shields.and in what world you things sorcs 14k 6 second shield is comparable to a tanks 40k health and 35k resist is astonishing.
los'ing yes BY ALL MEANS A NB SHOULD HAVE TO USE A TREE AS DEFENSE <- sarcasm
dodge roll what about mnb toons?
sorcs needs to learn to use one of there crap heals before there even below half health, rolldodge x2 so they can use all there stam get stunned and wrecked <- totally a great idea again sarcasm
Using resto ulti give you a whole 2 second to kill your opponent omg 2 seconds, wtf am i going to do with all that extra time
surge is *** in pvp
bleed dmg, no it wont go threw shield just it will use them faster to where you can get to a 16k health bar with 11k resist and 0 crit resist
again sorc resist 11k not 30k
and idk that you point about sorcs and nbs stunning tanks are but ya gl bursting down a take
like omg the salt in this post is literally killing me
Learn to read then learn to play then come back and comment. You literally didnt understood context of anything I said in post You're quoting. Like serioulsy not even 1 thing.
It's like I would talk about cosmic space and You would come here and start correcting me thinking I was talking about keyboard space only because I said "space is huge". If there would be facepalm button here belive me You would earn few ot them already.
by all means clarify to me then
Both magsorcs and stamblades have reliable sources of defense very high damage and more then enough sustain to easily deal with the fact they take more dmg from hits then tanks. Like I said already having different defense then tank doesnt make You glass cannon if you can still survive ->
-> If you can hold your ground against players and have a reasonable defense YOU ARE WHAT CLASSES SHOULD BE not a glass cannon, the idea behind glass cannons are bombers, kill a lot of people quickly and die quickly.( as a rebuttal to the fact that you feel sorcs and nbs should be held to the same defensive lvl as glass connons)
________________________
the core of nbs is avoiding damage not taking it a nb with out clock or roll dodge is sqiushier than a sorc without shields.and in what world you thinks sorcs 14k 6 second shield is comparable to a tanks 40k health and 35k resist is astonishing. (in response to you saying " Both magsorcs and stamblades have reliable sources of defense very high damage and more then enough sustain to easily deal with the fact they take more dmg from hits then tanks."
_________________________
I know many nb's that can hold their ground pretty decently even when cloak fails just with dodging , using shade and fearing enemie that chase You . All You need is just decent LoS area You can take adventage of and every nb with brain should bring people to that area if he plays PvP alone.-> this clearly means when clock fails nbs must rely on rolldodge and los, ok so what do they do with no los area or as a mnb? Die without a fight? hence my response of nbs needing to carry around trees as a shield
___________________________________
sorcs needs to learn to use one of there crap heals before there even below half health, rolldodge x2 so they can use all there stam get stunned and wrecked in response too " Sorc most of the time starts to panic and brainlesly spam healing ward which doesnt let ability to expoire with heal. Just use healing ward when You're at ~60% health then roll dodge then stun enemie and 1-2 seconds later dodge 1 more time and done You're getting healed to full. "
___________________________________
You can streak through him and use dark deal right after that toi get heal and resources back when enemie is breaking free. When using resto ulti You have 2 seconds window to do dmg on that opponent. ->Using resto ulti give you a whole 2 second to kill your opponent omg 2 seconds, wtf am i going to do with all that extra time, oh and btw dark deal sucks for pvp and you meant dark conversion
__________________________________
You still have surge heals on top of that. ->surge is *** in pvp
___________________________________
Bleed builds sucks against decent magsorc and stamblades. It's not like bleed damage can go through shields or cloak. Shields have 0 resistances anyway so basicly bleeds main feature which is 100% penetration is not working agaisnt shields but shields prevent bleeds from critting so basicly bleeds deal less dmg to shields then to health bar protected by 30k physical and 3k crit resistance.->bleed dmg, no it wont go threw shield, it will use them faster to where you can get to a 16k health bar with 11k resist and 0 crit resist (pointing out that while yes bleed its less effective against shields than tank once threw it is just as effective with sorcs lower health and lower resistance)
so please, what way have i misrepresented you
0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »morrowind SP load screen says the following:
"there is nothing to be ashamed of nor wrong with running away or hiding from a fight you know you cannot win, it is better to escape than to die. come back when you are stronger, more prepared, and maybe even bring some friends"
there is nothing wrong with stealthing away to protect yourself, and nothing wrong with running away.
There is nothing right about giving a player the ability to freely escape from any fight with no consequences. If there are no risks, there should be no rewards. No ability in this game should guarantee your survival. While cloak isn't that strong, it is very close.
there is risk, glass cannon for both nb's and magsorc, you have cloak or shield and under this you are glass cannon, if one oth those dont work then you chave only choice to leavy pvp or joing to tank meta and make by it less diversity
about risk for glass cannon you cant deal damage and take other damage at once without acive defense like on magice you need to have mostly 100% uptime shield to not get bursted faster even by tank and on nb you need nonstop ticking hots/shield and cloaking for breakt to get health again
on tank build you just deal damage like mindless bot, you see your health went down to 50% or less, so you push few buttons to heal, buffs and apply HOT and with HOT you still attacking someone without bigger push on you while this glass cannon need to be aware about every hit becasue every hit can take donw over 50% of his health if not aware
so you are wrong, sorcs and nb's have risk for option to escape from fight as being mostly glass cannon wchich can be melted in moment by jsut dots/proc sets on even tank build while the only disadvantage on tank is hie worse mobility without mist form
Last time I checked glass cannon builds couldnt hold pressure of 1vX easily. Sorc and stamblades can. Saying "they're glass cannons under their defenses" is most radicolous think I've ever heared. It's like saying "tank is glass cannon without high resistances block and healing". Fact that magsorc or stamblade defenses are based on different rules then regular tank builds doesnt mean they're glass cannon. They just have different defense requiring different playstyle but this defense is still strong and what is most funny sometimes even stronger then mentioned tanks defenses.
As for the definition of glass cannon beeing build that when he's not watching carefully he can get health easily dropped down under 50% it's just part of the true. Yes glass cannon builds need to watch out because they can get their heatlh easily dropped down and then things start to be nasty because refreshing health back to decent values is problematic. This is not the case with magsorc or stamblade. They can restore health back to full very easily and without issues. Cloak stops any incoming dmg completly so You'll be able to restore Your health without huge pressure. Healing ward is stronger with lower health so basicly lower Your health is stronger Your defense becomes. It's not like this basic defenses cant be connected with other things to create very strong and reliable defense combos. For stamblade it's cloak , roll dodge , shade , fear , for magsorc it's healing ward, hardened ward , annulment , dark deal , streak. And this is just abilities list. There is also lot of sets that supports this 2 builds defenses in much stronger ways then it would do for other builds.
You can say "yeah but other classes can also roll dodge same like other classes can also shieldstack". The problem is stamblade takes the highest adventage of roll dodging because of what he can connect it with , magsorc takes the highest adventage of shieldstacking because of 1 additional shield and what he can connect it with.
Calling magsorc or stamblade glass cannons this days only because their defenses are different from tank defenses is silly. If You want to see how glass cannon looks like try low recovery dual wield stamplar for example. You'll see difference between this build and magsorc/stamblade instantly.
well but if you want go for those defences :cloak or shields you are mainly forced to go in glass cannon and dont say to try go without regens because it can work only for ganker or zerger
you in heavy armor go with lesser regens than medium/light armor but you have passive in heavy armore to giving back resourced when damaged (yes I know it got big nerf but at all its how heavy is working for sustain)
yes I can cloak in tankly buil but will do it maybe 2, max 3 times i short time and cant do more, same is with shields but it can work only with magsorc as only he have good class damage shield outside armor but at all it wont be to much efficient to him on heavy, better will be jsut to go into full tankinies without even thinking for shieldstack
and without cloak and shields well...we have every 5 classes looking same and working similiar..the only difference is just colour of skills lol
and as nb's strong power for glass cannon and sorcs you know..we have tool to break in 100% their full defences
dont let nb in medium enter to cloak...just dots will melt him
as for sorc take shieldbreaker and spam mindlessly LA and this is bypassing all deefence of sorc (will also mention to add sload which we have today and sorc is just getting rekt with this)
and the only mechanic efficient agaisnt those tank are jsut bleed dot builds but hey! they work even more efficient against those glass cannon build ( only nb can have advantage in defense to this bul until is cloak and nothing is breaking this) and sorc shields are melthing even more with these dost because shields dont have resists etc so basic damage without cirts is just melthing those shields very fast
If You can hold Your ground against enemie and You have reliable source of defense then You're not glass cannon. Fact that Your health can be dropped down faster if You dont watch out doesnt make You glass cannon. Both magsorcs and stamblades have reliable sources of defense very high damage and more then enough sustain to easily deal with the fact they take more dmg from hits then tanks. Like I said already having different defense then tank doesnt make You glass cannon if you can still survive. Glass cannon is the build that when he is unable to do keep constant dmg pressure or his dmg combo fails it means he will be instantly dead without any ways to prevent that from happening. Is stamblade or magsorc having that issue ? I dont think so.
You can cloak more time in heavy armor build then in medium armor one since heavy armor provides also magicka restoring which medium armor dont have. The difference is that people adapting their builds to certain playstyles and this is why medium armor users have option to cloak more because they invest into magicka recovery . Medium armor itself have nothing to do with it. As for magsorc there is no need to run in heavy why we even touch that ? Is fact that heavy armor is not good for magosrc makes magsorc some kind of worse ?
As for nb's goes it's mostly l2p issue. I know many nb's that can hold their ground pretty decently even when cloak fails just with dodging , using shade and fearing enemie that chase You . All You need is just decent LoS area You can take adventage of and every nb with brain should bring people to that area if he plays PvP alone. If You're in area like that using cloak is not an issue since enemie wont be able to reliably use their cloak counters. As for light attack shieldbreaker spammers if sorc dies to them it's also L2P issue. If someone just brainlesly spams light attacks at You that deals 2k dmg to Your health and You die from it then problem is on Your side. Sorc most of the time starts to panic and brainlesly spam healing ward which doesnt let ability to expoire with heal. Just use healing ward when You're at ~60% health then roll dodge then stun enemie and 1-2 seconds later dodge 1 more time and done You're getting healed to full. You can still keep dmg pressure on enemie that is just brainlesly spamming light attacks with shieldbreaker on You. You can streak through him and use dark deal right after that toi get heal and resources back when enemie is breaking free. When using resto ulti You have 2 seconds window to do dmg on that opponent. You still have surge heals on top of that. Seriously there is no issue to kill LA spammer with shieldbreaker. If situation goes really bad and You know You want win just flee away with blink or pop invisibility pot. It's not like You should be able to kill everyone and win every fight.
Bleed builds sucks against decent magsorc and stamblades. It's not like bleed damage can go through shields or cloak. Shields have 0 resistances anyway so basicly bleeds main feature which is 100% penetration is not working agaisnt shields but shields prevent bleeds from critting so basicly bleeds deal less dmg to shields then to health bar protected by 30k physical and 3k crit resistance. Mechanics afficient agaisnt tanks is just draining them out of resources and using CC's that goes through block and guess what sorc and nb have 2 most reliable stuns like that. There are tank builds that can do pretty decent dmg that's a fact but this is more of a game ballance issue then reason to think magsorc or stamblade defenses are weak by design.
I mentioned bleed, dot build arnt that much efficient against nb but I wrote it jsut melt this nb if he cant enter t cloak (see sload and therad title)
and when I was mentioning this bleed dot build I had on mind you dont nuse only bleeds on those buidls right? only bleed will be worse against sorc ehields but rest dots dont change to much in burst potention (and again see sload and therad title) and tbh those stacked dots themselfves jsut melting sorc shields + this additional sload is overkill to sorc even without shieldbreaker, sorc dont have tham much healing as you can have on tankyl build in heavy which also have bonus to healing recevied
this is my point as you see glass cannon concept much different than me
but tbh then glass cannon dont exist in this game since hm??? few years? maybe since when 1st proc sets showed and people stopped maxing dmg (cuz free proc damage!) and started to go with sustain if not heavy armored but its a little going to offtipc
And like I said nb have no issue with bleeds even when cloak fails since nb have lot of other ways to avoid dmg and if DoTs are the only dmg type that remains to outheal then he'll outheal it. There is no build that would be able to kill nb with DoTs even with Sload if nb decides to use his kiting potential and end up with tie. It's not like You should be able to kill everyone easily on nb and survive easily everything. This nb mentality is sick they're looking only at few builds that are able to deal with them more easily then the rest completly forgetting that they're able to destroy everyone else without a sweat. Why nightblades are not QQing when they're almost one shotting multiple people in PvP with few second interval between each kill and they're able to avoid 90% of the dmg from this people ? QQing only about Your build drawbacks and not even mentioning its obvious adventages is called hypocrisy.
As I mentioned main feature of bleed dmg in penetrating 100% of enemie resistances but shields have 0 resistances anyway so bleed gains nothing on shields but looses chance to crit. If it comes to other dmg type DoTs those are also loosing since You cant ptoc status effects on shields. That basicly means that any regular dmg type DoT will loose its secondary effect against shields. As for Sload DoT dmg there is basicly no difference will it be used on target with or without shields. It'll always do the same. So shields have nothing that would make either bleed or oblivion dmg from Sload exceptional and working differently against them then agaisnt different defense types. Bleeds can melt base shields other then healing ward in non CP yes , but that's because of how non CP affects shields not because of bleed dmg itself. Magsorcs may not have as much healing as a tanks but tanks dont have burst repeatable within that short intervals like sorcs have. There is much more of that differences so comparing only selective difference to prove Your point is kinda partial.
Let me explain You what glass cannon definition is like I would explain it to 6 y o kid. Imagine cannon maded from metal and cannon from glass. Lets assume You have same budget to make and transport those 2 cannons. Metal one will be heavier and smaller. Glass cannon will be larger and lighter so You'll be able to stick larger missle in it with much more destructive power then metal cannon missle. But after 1 shot from glass cannon it's over and You either destroyed enemie or You'll be destroyed soon since You dont have anything to shoot missles from. Despite of smaller missles size in metal cannon You can reload it with another missles endlessly. So can magsorc or stamblade deliver 1 deadly combo and when it'll fail they'll fail also or they can "reload" and "shoot" another combo endlesly ?
There are glass cannon builds in ESO. Most popular currently is proxy det bomb blade. If he'll fail with bombing he's dead. Sometimes he is dead even when he kills 90% of the enemie team because he simply dont have resources to outstand dmg from remaining player/s. Another example is dw low recovery high max stam templar. He can win 1vX if enemies he's fighting against will be dying from his 1 combo and he'll be able to repent them and jump on someone else , but if atleast 1 enemie will outstand his dmg for too long that is game over. Another glass cannon type of build is one shotting sniper. He can destroy everyone by supprise but if it'll fail and someone will sit on him when he's alone it's game over because casual ways of defending wont help since he have not enough resource managment for that. There is much more builds like that but post is already long so I will stop with that 3.
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ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »morrowind SP load screen says the following:
"there is nothing to be ashamed of nor wrong with running away or hiding from a fight you know you cannot win, it is better to escape than to die. come back when you are stronger, more prepared, and maybe even bring some friends"
there is nothing wrong with stealthing away to protect yourself, and nothing wrong with running away.
There is nothing right about giving a player the ability to freely escape from any fight with no consequences. If there are no risks, there should be no rewards. No ability in this game should guarantee your survival. While cloak isn't that strong, it is very close.
there is risk, glass cannon for both nb's and magsorc, you have cloak or shield and under this you are glass cannon, if one oth those dont work then you chave only choice to leavy pvp or joing to tank meta and make by it less diversity
about risk for glass cannon you cant deal damage and take other damage at once without acive defense like on magice you need to have mostly 100% uptime shield to not get bursted faster even by tank and on nb you need nonstop ticking hots/shield and cloaking for breakt to get health again
on tank build you just deal damage like mindless bot, you see your health went down to 50% or less, so you push few buttons to heal, buffs and apply HOT and with HOT you still attacking someone without bigger push on you while this glass cannon need to be aware about every hit becasue every hit can take donw over 50% of his health if not aware
so you are wrong, sorcs and nb's have risk for option to escape from fight as being mostly glass cannon wchich can be melted in moment by jsut dots/proc sets on even tank build while the only disadvantage on tank is hie worse mobility without mist form
Last time I checked glass cannon builds couldnt hold pressure of 1vX easily. Sorc and stamblades can. Saying "they're glass cannons under their defenses" is most radicolous think I've ever heared. It's like saying "tank is glass cannon without high resistances block and healing". Fact that magsorc or stamblade defenses are based on different rules then regular tank builds doesnt mean they're glass cannon. They just have different defense requiring different playstyle but this defense is still strong and what is most funny sometimes even stronger then mentioned tanks defenses.
As for the definition of glass cannon beeing build that when he's not watching carefully he can get health easily dropped down under 50% it's just part of the true. Yes glass cannon builds need to watch out because they can get their heatlh easily dropped down and then things start to be nasty because refreshing health back to decent values is problematic. This is not the case with magsorc or stamblade. They can restore health back to full very easily and without issues. Cloak stops any incoming dmg completly so You'll be able to restore Your health without huge pressure. Healing ward is stronger with lower health so basicly lower Your health is stronger Your defense becomes. It's not like this basic defenses cant be connected with other things to create very strong and reliable defense combos. For stamblade it's cloak , roll dodge , shade , fear , for magsorc it's healing ward, hardened ward , annulment , dark deal , streak. And this is just abilities list. There is also lot of sets that supports this 2 builds defenses in much stronger ways then it would do for other builds.
You can say "yeah but other classes can also roll dodge same like other classes can also shieldstack". The problem is stamblade takes the highest adventage of roll dodging because of what he can connect it with , magsorc takes the highest adventage of shieldstacking because of 1 additional shield and what he can connect it with.
Calling magsorc or stamblade glass cannons this days only because their defenses are different from tank defenses is silly. If You want to see how glass cannon looks like try low recovery dual wield stamplar for example. You'll see difference between this build and magsorc/stamblade instantly.
well but if you want go for those defences :cloak or shields you are mainly forced to go in glass cannon and dont say to try go without regens because it can work only for ganker or zerger
you in heavy armor go with lesser regens than medium/light armor but you have passive in heavy armore to giving back resourced when damaged (yes I know it got big nerf but at all its how heavy is working for sustain)
yes I can cloak in tankly buil but will do it maybe 2, max 3 times i short time and cant do more, same is with shields but it can work only with magsorc as only he have good class damage shield outside armor but at all it wont be to much efficient to him on heavy, better will be jsut to go into full tankinies without even thinking for shieldstack
and without cloak and shields well...we have every 5 classes looking same and working similiar..the only difference is just colour of skills lol
and as nb's strong power for glass cannon and sorcs you know..we have tool to break in 100% their full defences
dont let nb in medium enter to cloak...just dots will melt him
as for sorc take shieldbreaker and spam mindlessly LA and this is bypassing all deefence of sorc (will also mention to add sload which we have today and sorc is just getting rekt with this)
and the only mechanic efficient agaisnt those tank are jsut bleed dot builds but hey! they work even more efficient against those glass cannon build ( only nb can have advantage in defense to this bul until is cloak and nothing is breaking this) and sorc shields are melthing even more with these dost because shields dont have resists etc so basic damage without cirts is just melthing those shields very fast
If You can hold Your ground against enemie and You have reliable source of defense then You're not glass cannon. Fact that Your health can be dropped down faster if You dont watch out doesnt make You glass cannon. Both magsorcs and stamblades have reliable sources of defense very high damage and more then enough sustain to easily deal with the fact they take more dmg from hits then tanks. Like I said already having different defense then tank doesnt make You glass cannon if you can still survive. Glass cannon is the build that when he is unable to do keep constant dmg pressure or his dmg combo fails it means he will be instantly dead without any ways to prevent that from happening. Is stamblade or magsorc having that issue ? I dont think so.
You can cloak more time in heavy armor build then in medium armor one since heavy armor provides also magicka restoring which medium armor dont have. The difference is that people adapting their builds to certain playstyles and this is why medium armor users have option to cloak more because they invest into magicka recovery . Medium armor itself have nothing to do with it. As for magsorc there is no need to run in heavy why we even touch that ? Is fact that heavy armor is not good for magosrc makes magsorc some kind of worse ?
As for nb's goes it's mostly l2p issue. I know many nb's that can hold their ground pretty decently even when cloak fails just with dodging , using shade and fearing enemie that chase You . All You need is just decent LoS area You can take adventage of and every nb with brain should bring people to that area if he plays PvP alone. If You're in area like that using cloak is not an issue since enemie wont be able to reliably use their cloak counters. As for light attack shieldbreaker spammers if sorc dies to them it's also L2P issue. If someone just brainlesly spams light attacks at You that deals 2k dmg to Your health and You die from it then problem is on Your side. Sorc most of the time starts to panic and brainlesly spam healing ward which doesnt let ability to expoire with heal. Just use healing ward when You're at ~60% health then roll dodge then stun enemie and 1-2 seconds later dodge 1 more time and done You're getting healed to full. You can still keep dmg pressure on enemie that is just brainlesly spamming light attacks with shieldbreaker on You. You can streak through him and use dark deal right after that toi get heal and resources back when enemie is breaking free. When using resto ulti You have 2 seconds window to do dmg on that opponent. You still have surge heals on top of that. Seriously there is no issue to kill LA spammer with shieldbreaker. If situation goes really bad and You know You want win just flee away with blink or pop invisibility pot. It's not like You should be able to kill everyone and win every fight.
Bleed builds sucks against decent magsorc and stamblades. It's not like bleed damage can go through shields or cloak. Shields have 0 resistances anyway so basicly bleeds main feature which is 100% penetration is not working agaisnt shields but shields prevent bleeds from critting so basicly bleeds deal less dmg to shields then to health bar protected by 30k physical and 3k crit resistance. Mechanics afficient agaisnt tanks is just draining them out of resources and using CC's that goes through block and guess what sorc and nb have 2 most reliable stuns like that. There are tank builds that can do pretty decent dmg that's a fact but this is more of a game ballance issue then reason to think magsorc or stamblade defenses are weak by design.
I mentioned bleed, dot build arnt that much efficient against nb but I wrote it jsut melt this nb if he cant enter t cloak (see sload and therad title)
and when I was mentioning this bleed dot build I had on mind you dont nuse only bleeds on those buidls right? only bleed will be worse against sorc ehields but rest dots dont change to much in burst potention (and again see sload and therad title) and tbh those stacked dots themselfves jsut melting sorc shields + this additional sload is overkill to sorc even without shieldbreaker, sorc dont have tham much healing as you can have on tankyl build in heavy which also have bonus to healing recevied
this is my point as you see glass cannon concept much different than me
but tbh then glass cannon dont exist in this game since hm??? few years? maybe since when 1st proc sets showed and people stopped maxing dmg (cuz free proc damage!) and started to go with sustain if not heavy armored but its a little going to offtipc
And like I said nb have no issue with bleeds even when cloak fails since nb have lot of other ways to avoid dmg and if DoTs are the only dmg type that remains to outheal then he'll outheal it. There is no build that would be able to kill nb with DoTs even with Sload if nb decides to use his kiting potential and end up with tie. It's not like You should be able to kill everyone easily on nb and survive easily everything. This nb mentality is sick they're looking only at few builds that are able to deal with them more easily then the rest completly forgetting that they're able to destroy everyone else without a sweat. Why nightblades are not QQing when they're almost one shotting multiple people in PvP with few second interval between each kill and they're able to avoid 90% of the dmg from this people ? QQing only about Your build drawbacks and not even mentioning its obvious adventages is called hypocrisy.
As I mentioned main feature of bleed dmg in penetrating 100% of enemie resistances but shields have 0 resistances anyway so bleed gains nothing on shields but looses chance to crit. If it comes to other dmg type DoTs those are also loosing since You cant ptoc status effects on shields. That basicly means that any regular dmg type DoT will loose its secondary effect against shields. As for Sload DoT dmg there is basicly no difference will it be used on target with or without shields. It'll always do the same. So shields have nothing that would make either bleed or oblivion dmg from Sload exceptional and working differently against them then agaisnt different defense types. Bleeds can melt base shields other then healing ward in non CP yes , but that's because of how non CP affects shields not because of bleed dmg itself. Magsorcs may not have as much healing as a tanks but tanks dont have burst repeatable within that short intervals like sorcs have. There is much more of that differences so comparing only selective difference to prove Your point is kinda partial.
Let me explain You what glass cannon definition is like I would explain it to 6 y o kid. Imagine cannon maded from metal and cannon from glass. Lets assume You have same budget to make and transport those 2 cannons. Metal one will be heavier and smaller. Glass cannon will be larger and lighter so You'll be able to stick larger missle in it with much more destructive power then metal cannon missle. But after 1 shot from glass cannon it's over and You either destroyed enemie or You'll be destroyed soon since You dont have anything to shoot missles from. Despite of smaller missles size in metal cannon You can reload it with another missles endlessly. So can magsorc or stamblade deliver 1 deadly combo and when it'll fail they'll fail also or they can "reload" and "shoot" another combo endlesly ?
There are glass cannon builds in ESO. Most popular currently is proxy det bomb blade. If he'll fail with bombing he's dead. Sometimes he is dead even when he kills 90% of the enemie team because he simply dont have resources to outstand dmg from remaining player/s. Another example is dw low recovery high max stam templar. He can win 1vX if enemies he's fighting against will be dying from his 1 combo and he'll be able to repent them and jump on someone else , but if atleast 1 enemie will outstand his dmg for too long that is game over. Another glass cannon type of build is one shotting sniper. He can destroy everyone by supprise but if it'll fail and someone will sit on him when he's alone it's game over because casual ways of defending wont help since he have not enough resource managment for that. There is much more builds like that but post is already long so I will stop with that 3.
first paragraph nbs arnt nearly that effective, yes they can gank, but if a long fight they they have a justifiable amount of damage for there squishiness. also nbs have naturally low resistance, they rely on there clock for their main defense and there are already counters to this like inner light and detect pots, now while a nb might be good a kitting and los'ing that still does not change the fact what they are easily killed one you use the already existing counters because of low health and low resistance. so yes they can put out more dmg but they can also take less, so no, they cant easily survive anything
second paragraph: as i already said, yes bleed is less effective on shields but once through them they are more effective do to sorcs low health. Shield do nothing that would result in sloads and bleed working differently on different builds. what makes them different is shields are designed to act as an addition to your health bar, meaning anything that can bypass a shield ignores a portion of essentially your health bar. To which sorcs are left with lower health and less effective heals to deal with taking care of that damage they were dealt. Shields some what also act as an artificial heal giving you the ability to recover health which on our own, we cant do at a similar rate to the other classes in pvp. That is the difference
I get your definition of a glass cannon, I am saying sorcs and nbs do not meet that definition. They have decent damage and defense, they cannot instantly destroy the opposing force so why are we trying to remove there defenses and instantly kill them? why are we trying to force a build that doesnt have glass cannon damage to have glass cannon resistance? destro bombers are glass cannons they can destroy the opposing force quickly or once spent, dieEdited by ezio45 on May 27, 2018 8:35PM0 -
Anhedonie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why it's always the same toxic good-for-nothings that are crying for nerfs?Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.4 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
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^^^ uses Sloads in PvE...huschdeguddzje wrote: »Oh look pvp is whining again
Edited by Vaoh on May 27, 2018 10:40PM5 -
Sky_WK✭✭✭✭* high pitched hysterically demonic screeching *
1 set that prob is as good as this, but no-one uses really, is Dual wield master axes: (2 Items) Increases the bleed damage Twin Slashes deals by 1500 each tick. now if you do double axes you have another 16% bleed change on top...
Iknow, it gets reduced by battle spirit, but it ignores all resistances aswell (exept shields thats the only non-common thing).
I dont really see a thicc problem with this sload set, zos finally listened to #nerfsorcs!
Please don't talk about mechanics if you don't understand that dual axes gives you less bleed uptime than axe/dagger, mace, or sword. Before you argue, go test it on a target dummy.i do not read replies. still playing stamdk for some reason.1 -
Sky_WK✭✭✭✭I really don't see the issue. The set puts a dot on one target.. how is that any different than any other proc set? I agree that proc sets are an issue by themselves but this doesn't seem really out of line to me compared to any others.
Its Oblivion damage. If u dont See why this is a problem then pls stay in ur zerg or in pve
yes, i can see that it's oblivion damage.
Oblivion damage: ignores resistances, damage shields, blocking, dodging, battle spirit, pulls NB s out of stealth, cant be cleansed.
Tell me why u consider this balanced.
i guess that sucks, but all i'm really seeing is, "why can't i just ignore this dot/cleanse this dot like every other dot in the game?"
So u are okay with dot that has 0 counter play? This is not how Balance works
the counterplay to damage is healing
And for classes that use healing ward as a heal? I.e. all mag except Templars and some wardens?i do not read replies. still playing stamdk for some reason.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »will zos please change this set already! it took them a week to change the new trial sets >_<
this again?
all you have to do is cast Purge and sloads is removed instantly.
sloads does not need changed, nor nerfed.
just cast alliance skill "purge" and your cleansed from it. it will take another 6 seconds before it can proc again and in addition to that, if you are getting hit by multiple sloads from a zerg then you are allready going to die from the zerg of people attacking you, all you can do at that point is purge, cleanse, and stick with your group or zerg, and btw, you would have died anyway from the amount of people attacking you.
TLDR:
"just cast purge and sloads is removed"
so WTB purge costing less than half on my magica + additional skill slot only to counter SINGLE PROC SET
With Siphoner, Relequen, and the tons of debuffs/DoTs going around..... the odds of your Purge cleansing the correct DoT is nearly zero, since only two negative effects are removed on cast. So it’ll actually require you to spam Purge to remove a specific effect
that’s impossible in an actual combat scenario.
Also I hear Sloads cannot be Purged. Idk if true.
I’ll definitely be running this set next patch lol. It’s absurdly strong. They really don’t give af about PvP.1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »morrowind SP load screen says the following:
"there is nothing to be ashamed of nor wrong with running away or hiding from a fight you know you cannot win, it is better to escape than to die. come back when you are stronger, more prepared, and maybe even bring some friends"
there is nothing wrong with stealthing away to protect yourself, and nothing wrong with running away.
There is nothing right about giving a player the ability to freely escape from any fight with no consequences. If there are no risks, there should be no rewards. No ability in this game should guarantee your survival. While cloak isn't that strong, it is very close.
there is risk, glass cannon for both nb's and magsorc, you have cloak or shield and under this you are glass cannon, if one oth those dont work then you chave only choice to leavy pvp or joing to tank meta and make by it less diversity
about risk for glass cannon you cant deal damage and take other damage at once without acive defense like on magice you need to have mostly 100% uptime shield to not get bursted faster even by tank and on nb you need nonstop ticking hots/shield and cloaking for breakt to get health again
on tank build you just deal damage like mindless bot, you see your health went down to 50% or less, so you push few buttons to heal, buffs and apply HOT and with HOT you still attacking someone without bigger push on you while this glass cannon need to be aware about every hit becasue every hit can take donw over 50% of his health if not aware
so you are wrong, sorcs and nb's have risk for option to escape from fight as being mostly glass cannon wchich can be melted in moment by jsut dots/proc sets on even tank build while the only disadvantage on tank is hie worse mobility without mist form
Last time I checked glass cannon builds couldnt hold pressure of 1vX easily. Sorc and stamblades can. Saying "they're glass cannons under their defenses" is most radicolous think I've ever heared. It's like saying "tank is glass cannon without high resistances block and healing". Fact that magsorc or stamblade defenses are based on different rules then regular tank builds doesnt mean they're glass cannon. They just have different defense requiring different playstyle but this defense is still strong and what is most funny sometimes even stronger then mentioned tanks defenses.
As for the definition of glass cannon beeing build that when he's not watching carefully he can get health easily dropped down under 50% it's just part of the true. Yes glass cannon builds need to watch out because they can get their heatlh easily dropped down and then things start to be nasty because refreshing health back to decent values is problematic. This is not the case with magsorc or stamblade. They can restore health back to full very easily and without issues. Cloak stops any incoming dmg completly so You'll be able to restore Your health without huge pressure. Healing ward is stronger with lower health so basicly lower Your health is stronger Your defense becomes. It's not like this basic defenses cant be connected with other things to create very strong and reliable defense combos. For stamblade it's cloak , roll dodge , shade , fear , for magsorc it's healing ward, hardened ward , annulment , dark deal , streak. And this is just abilities list. There is also lot of sets that supports this 2 builds defenses in much stronger ways then it would do for other builds.
You can say "yeah but other classes can also roll dodge same like other classes can also shieldstack". The problem is stamblade takes the highest adventage of roll dodging because of what he can connect it with , magsorc takes the highest adventage of shieldstacking because of 1 additional shield and what he can connect it with.
Calling magsorc or stamblade glass cannons this days only because their defenses are different from tank defenses is silly. If You want to see how glass cannon looks like try low recovery dual wield stamplar for example. You'll see difference between this build and magsorc/stamblade instantly.
well but if you want go for those defences :cloak or shields you are mainly forced to go in glass cannon and dont say to try go without regens because it can work only for ganker or zerger
you in heavy armor go with lesser regens than medium/light armor but you have passive in heavy armore to giving back resourced when damaged (yes I know it got big nerf but at all its how heavy is working for sustain)
yes I can cloak in tankly buil but will do it maybe 2, max 3 times i short time and cant do more, same is with shields but it can work only with magsorc as only he have good class damage shield outside armor but at all it wont be to much efficient to him on heavy, better will be jsut to go into full tankinies without even thinking for shieldstack
and without cloak and shields well...we have every 5 classes looking same and working similiar..the only difference is just colour of skills lol
and as nb's strong power for glass cannon and sorcs you know..we have tool to break in 100% their full defences
dont let nb in medium enter to cloak...just dots will melt him
as for sorc take shieldbreaker and spam mindlessly LA and this is bypassing all deefence of sorc (will also mention to add sload which we have today and sorc is just getting rekt with this)
and the only mechanic efficient agaisnt those tank are jsut bleed dot builds but hey! they work even more efficient against those glass cannon build ( only nb can have advantage in defense to this bul until is cloak and nothing is breaking this) and sorc shields are melthing even more with these dost because shields dont have resists etc so basic damage without cirts is just melthing those shields very fast
If You can hold Your ground against enemie and You have reliable source of defense then You're not glass cannon. Fact that Your health can be dropped down faster if You dont watch out doesnt make You glass cannon. Both magsorcs and stamblades have reliable sources of defense very high damage and more then enough sustain to easily deal with the fact they take more dmg from hits then tanks. Like I said already having different defense then tank doesnt make You glass cannon if you can still survive. Glass cannon is the build that when he is unable to do keep constant dmg pressure or his dmg combo fails it means he will be instantly dead without any ways to prevent that from happening. Is stamblade or magsorc having that issue ? I dont think so.
You can cloak more time in heavy armor build then in medium armor one since heavy armor provides also magicka restoring which medium armor dont have. The difference is that people adapting their builds to certain playstyles and this is why medium armor users have option to cloak more because they invest into magicka recovery . Medium armor itself have nothing to do with it. As for magsorc there is no need to run in heavy why we even touch that ? Is fact that heavy armor is not good for magosrc makes magsorc some kind of worse ?
As for nb's goes it's mostly l2p issue. I know many nb's that can hold their ground pretty decently even when cloak fails just with dodging , using shade and fearing enemie that chase You . All You need is just decent LoS area You can take adventage of and every nb with brain should bring people to that area if he plays PvP alone. If You're in area like that using cloak is not an issue since enemie wont be able to reliably use their cloak counters. As for light attack shieldbreaker spammers if sorc dies to them it's also L2P issue. If someone just brainlesly spams light attacks at You that deals 2k dmg to Your health and You die from it then problem is on Your side. Sorc most of the time starts to panic and brainlesly spam healing ward which doesnt let ability to expoire with heal. Just use healing ward when You're at ~60% health then roll dodge then stun enemie and 1-2 seconds later dodge 1 more time and done You're getting healed to full. You can still keep dmg pressure on enemie that is just brainlesly spamming light attacks with shieldbreaker on You. You can streak through him and use dark deal right after that toi get heal and resources back when enemie is breaking free. When using resto ulti You have 2 seconds window to do dmg on that opponent. You still have surge heals on top of that. Seriously there is no issue to kill LA spammer with shieldbreaker. If situation goes really bad and You know You want win just flee away with blink or pop invisibility pot. It's not like You should be able to kill everyone and win every fight.
Bleed builds sucks against decent magsorc and stamblades. It's not like bleed damage can go through shields or cloak. Shields have 0 resistances anyway so basicly bleeds main feature which is 100% penetration is not working agaisnt shields but shields prevent bleeds from critting so basicly bleeds deal less dmg to shields then to health bar protected by 30k physical and 3k crit resistance. Mechanics afficient agaisnt tanks is just draining them out of resources and using CC's that goes through block and guess what sorc and nb have 2 most reliable stuns like that. There are tank builds that can do pretty decent dmg that's a fact but this is more of a game ballance issue then reason to think magsorc or stamblade defenses are weak by design.
I mentioned bleed, dot build arnt that much efficient against nb but I wrote it jsut melt this nb if he cant enter t cloak (see sload and therad title)
and when I was mentioning this bleed dot build I had on mind you dont nuse only bleeds on those buidls right? only bleed will be worse against sorc ehields but rest dots dont change to much in burst potention (and again see sload and therad title) and tbh those stacked dots themselfves jsut melting sorc shields + this additional sload is overkill to sorc even without shieldbreaker, sorc dont have tham much healing as you can have on tankyl build in heavy which also have bonus to healing recevied
this is my point as you see glass cannon concept much different than me
but tbh then glass cannon dont exist in this game since hm??? few years? maybe since when 1st proc sets showed and people stopped maxing dmg (cuz free proc damage!) and started to go with sustain if not heavy armored but its a little going to offtipc
And like I said nb have no issue with bleeds even when cloak fails since nb have lot of other ways to avoid dmg and if DoTs are the only dmg type that remains to outheal then he'll outheal it. There is no build that would be able to kill nb with DoTs even with Sload if nb decides to use his kiting potential and end up with tie. It's not like You should be able to kill everyone easily on nb and survive easily everything. This nb mentality is sick they're looking only at few builds that are able to deal with them more easily then the rest completly forgetting that they're able to destroy everyone else without a sweat. Why nightblades are not QQing when they're almost one shotting multiple people in PvP with few second interval between each kill and they're able to avoid 90% of the dmg from this people ? QQing only about Your build drawbacks and not even mentioning its obvious adventages is called hypocrisy.
As I mentioned main feature of bleed dmg in penetrating 100% of enemie resistances but shields have 0 resistances anyway so bleed gains nothing on shields but looses chance to crit. If it comes to other dmg type DoTs those are also loosing since You cant ptoc status effects on shields. That basicly means that any regular dmg type DoT will loose its secondary effect against shields. As for Sload DoT dmg there is basicly no difference will it be used on target with or without shields. It'll always do the same. So shields have nothing that would make either bleed or oblivion dmg from Sload exceptional and working differently against them then agaisnt different defense types. Bleeds can melt base shields other then healing ward in non CP yes , but that's because of how non CP affects shields not because of bleed dmg itself. Magsorcs may not have as much healing as a tanks but tanks dont have burst repeatable within that short intervals like sorcs have. There is much more of that differences so comparing only selective difference to prove Your point is kinda partial.
Let me explain You what glass cannon definition is like I would explain it to 6 y o kid. Imagine cannon maded from metal and cannon from glass. Lets assume You have same budget to make and transport those 2 cannons. Metal one will be heavier and smaller. Glass cannon will be larger and lighter so You'll be able to stick larger missle in it with much more destructive power then metal cannon missle. But after 1 shot from glass cannon it's over and You either destroyed enemie or You'll be destroyed soon since You dont have anything to shoot missles from. Despite of smaller missles size in metal cannon You can reload it with another missles endlessly. So can magsorc or stamblade deliver 1 deadly combo and when it'll fail they'll fail also or they can "reload" and "shoot" another combo endlesly ?
There are glass cannon builds in ESO. Most popular currently is proxy det bomb blade. If he'll fail with bombing he's dead. Sometimes he is dead even when he kills 90% of the enemie team because he simply dont have resources to outstand dmg from remaining player/s. Another example is dw low recovery high max stam templar. He can win 1vX if enemies he's fighting against will be dying from his 1 combo and he'll be able to repent them and jump on someone else , but if atleast 1 enemie will outstand his dmg for too long that is game over. Another glass cannon type of build is one shotting sniper. He can destroy everyone by supprise but if it'll fail and someone will sit on him when he's alone it's game over because casual ways of defending wont help since he have not enough resource managment for that. There is much more builds like that but post is already long so I will stop with that 3.
first paragraph nbs arnt nearly that effective, yes they can gank, but if a long fight they they have a justifiable amount of damage for there squishiness. also nbs have naturally low resistance, they rely on there clock for their main defense and there are already counters to this like inner light and detect pots, now while a nb might be good a kitting and los'ing that still does not change the fact what they are easily killed one you use the already existing counters because of low health and low resistance. so yes they can put out more dmg but they can also take less, so no, they cant easily survive anything
second paragraph: as i already said, yes bleed is less effective on shields but once through them they are more effective do to sorcs low health. Shield do nothing that would result in sloads and bleed working differently on different builds. what makes them different is shields are designed to act as an addition to your health bar, meaning anything that can bypass a shield ignores a portion of essentially your health bar. To which sorcs are left with lower health and less effective heals to deal with taking care of that damage they were dealt. Shields some what also act as an artificial heal giving you the ability to recover health which on our own, we cant do at a similar rate to the other classes in pvp. That is the difference
I get your definition of a glass cannon, I am saying sorcs and nbs do not meet that definition. They have decent damage and defense, they cannot instantly destroy the opposing force so why are we trying to remove there defenses and instantly kill them? why are we trying to force a build that doesnt have glass cannon damage to have glass cannon resistance? destro bombers are glass cannons they can destroy the opposing force quickly or once spent, die
Ogh boy. At this point explaining You what You understodd wrong and why some of Your conclusions are wrong would be just too long.2 -
Haquor✭✭✭✭✭Perhaps because player healing output grossly outclasses this set in every way?
There are far better and more powerful sets too run...more useful ones too..
Name any other set that guarantees 1k damage every second of the fight until the end no matter resistances etcPeekachu99 wrote: »It’s actually only good in 1v1–as soon as you add another enemy/ player it scales terribly, since you don’t control who it procs on.
Tell that to me when I slot it on magdk, which thrives on focusing single targetsAlpha-Lupi wrote: »Do note that if you are complaining about it, the real question is, why aren't you?
I didn't on the PTS to stop awareness. On the live I'm just gona do it now xD
Knight Slayer - Your fully-charged Heavy Attacks against Players deal an additional 9% of their Max Health as Oblivion Damage
exactly how is an RNG set better than a player decided damage hit?
You know that 1800 damage is 9% of 20k right? which is what most glass cannons end up having in pvp. That number only gets higher the more health the target has.
Yeah people can dodge the heavy attack but you can control the fight and ultimately knight-slayer will win out in regards to the sustainability and consistency of the oblivion damage. No Proc, No cool down. Burst. I know the "but its 6k oblivion damage" response will come so just think about the fact that if you control the fight and you control when and where you do that damage ultimately you will do more oblivion damage with it than with sload.
The only manner in which sload potentially becomes superior is because of the 2nd - 3rd and 4th pieces mostly because its very flexible for most classes.
The only place sload will be any good is 1v1 and probably battlegrounds where nothing is balanced at all because the game is based around CP and bleeds rein supreme. Furthermore being single target is only remotely useful in duels to which in cyrodil is hardly a thing in most campaigns. Even Shor is getting zergy. Oh and most oblivion based sets including knight slayer are crap anyway; just flavour sets.
EDIT: Huh Good joke.
Good luck conducting any type of pvp while relying on your fully charged heavy attacks to actually land vs someone light weaving multiple skills for more damage/utility and procs of sloads.2 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭11 pages and I still can't see the problem with the set. I hope everyone does wear it so I can trash them in 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, ...1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭11 pages and I still can't see the problem with the set. I hope everyone does wear it so I can trash them in 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, ...
Problem is simple. Set is adding up additional pressure which may look not dangerous but in fact is very strong. Lets imagine simple situation , You're fighting agaisnt someone and during 60 seconds of the fight You got like 3-4k DPS on that player because You also needed to go into defense he avoided some part of damage battle spirit lowered base dmg etc. Now add 1k DPS You cant do anything agaisnt to that 3-4k You were already doing. That is DPS increase by 30% just from 1 set. Show me set that will come close to that and allow You to reach similar DPS pressure on everyone in PvP.
Now imagine another situation. You're fighting some 1vX fight agaisnt let say 3 average players. It's normal in fight like that that to win You use line of sight to refresh buffs , restore some resources etc while You have lower dmg pressure on You since amount of dmg that stays on You is bearable. Now add 3k DPS on top of that dmg You already have since Sload can stack from multiple enemies and proc easily from any dmg even Dots You have on Yourself. That 3k additional DPS will basicly push You totally into defense and will make refreshing buffs or restoring some resources basicly impossible which means You'll die. It'll look like there would be constantly 1 additional player on You following You everywhere..
There is whole list of situation like that this are just 2 random examples. In non CP it's even worse. Argument like "yeah but it's not burst set and burst is all that matters in PvP" is not entirely true. Even if dmg is not burst type one but is very reliable it still needs to be dealt with by enemie and pressure because of that fact exist.
Someone calculated that to have same DPS like You're getting with viper in PvP You would have to replace it with additional 1,5-2k weapon dmg(though I am not sure if that numbers would still work in current meta since they were maded long time ago). Viper is doing much less then 1k DPS in real fight scenario , less then 500 DPS I would say since it procs of meele dmg only. Imagine if they would make viper tooltip 2-3 times higher. Wouldnt that be OP ? And this is actually what You're getting with Sload , 2-3 times stronger dmg pressure then with Viper.Edited by Juhasow on May 28, 2018 4:14AM5 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭11 pages and I still can't see the problem with the set. I hope everyone does wear it so I can trash them in 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, ...
Problem is simple. Set is adding up additional pressure which may look not dangerous but in fact is very strong. Lets imagine simple situation , You're fighting agaisnt someone and during 60 seconds of the fight You got like 3-4k DPS on that player because You also needed to go into defense he avoided some part of damage battle spirit lowered base dmg etc. Now add 1k DPS You cant do anything agaisnt to that 3-4k You was already doing. That is DPS increase by 30% just from 1 set. Show me set that will come close to that and allow You to reach similar DPS pressure on everyone in PvP.
Now imagine another situation. You're fighting some 1vX fight agaisnt let say 3 average players. It's normal in fight like that that to win You use line of sight to refresh buffs , restore some resources etc while You have lower dmg pressure on You since amount of dmg that stays on You is bearable. Now add 3k DPS on top of that dmg You already have since Sload can stack from multiple enemies and procs from eny dmg type and procs very easily. That 3k additional DPS will basicly push You totally into defense and will make refreshing buffs or restoring some resources basicly impossible which means You'll die. It'll look like there would be constantly 1 additional player on You following You everywhere..
There is whole list of situation like that this are just 2 random examples. In non CP it's even worse. Argument like "yeah but it's not burst set and burst is all that matters in PvP" is not entirely true. Even if dmg is not burst type one but is very reliable it still needs to be dealt with by enemie and pressure because of that fact exist.
Someone calculated that to have same DPS like You're getting with viper in PvP You would have to replace it with additional 1,5-2k weapon dmg. Viper is doing much less then 1k DPS in real fight scenario.
Situation #1: If you didn't win in 60 seconds, chances are you're not going to win at all either way. In a 1v1 situation after fighting that long, 1K unavoidable damage is not going to matter. What will matter is whether or not you can actually predict what the person will do next, guess where their resources are at (so you can CC and finish them), and pray no one else comes along. If that's not the case, how would your opponent have NOT have been capable enough before to end you?
Situation #2: lol'd . And just how would you know whether or not you were supposed to win a 1vX, or that you would if Sloads was not part of the equation?
Situation #3: It's a problem in no-CP...but what really isn't?1
