Savos_Saren wrote: »

I'm not running Sload... but I'm going to experiment with it.

I can say this, though: In Cyrodiil (PC/NA) last night- I didn't die once to Sload. My death report showed the exact same stuff as before (just a mash up of executes and ultimates). Perhaps Sloads is more of a Battleground issue?

Also, for those of you saying that Sloads is over performing... haven't we been saying that bleeds and major defile has been over performing?

...but I don't see people refusing to use bleeds or defiles...

(Just sayin')

of course you wouldn't not use it, if it clearly provides an advantage theres no reason not to, but sloads is overpowered along with those, which ppl have also complained about. and it gets terrible when you mix them together

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I'm not running Sload... but I'm going to experiment with it.

I can say this, though: In Cyrodiil (PC/NA) last night- I didn't die once to Sload. My death report showed the exact same stuff as before (just a mash up of executes and ultimates). Perhaps Sloads is more of a Battleground issue?

Also, for those of you saying that Sloads is over performing... haven't we been saying that bleeds and major defile has been over performing?

...but I don't see people refusing to use bleeds or defiles...

(Just sayin')

of course you wouldn't not use it, if it clearly provides an advantage theres no reason not to, but sloads is overpowered along with those, which ppl have also complained about. and it gets terrible when you mix them together

i base everything on stealth. it is my only way of life.
i have zero desire to use this set because if i hit someone with sloads set then i cannot stealth because of its DOT pulls me out of stealth and i have no ability to stealth.

in addition, the set being used against me is a nightmare, not because of its damage, no, it is because the constant DPT against me makes it so i cannot stealth.

i feel ya, im a sorc. oblivion dot will cripple us too

this set is completely broken for sorcs,nbs and stam and needs to be changed. that is the point of this whole thread, i just hope zos will actually listen to this problem instead of ignore it

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

morrowind SP load screen says the following:

"there is nothing to be ashamed of nor wrong with running away or hiding from a fight you know you cannot win, it is better to escape than to die. come back when you are stronger, more prepared, and maybe even bring some friends"

there is nothing wrong with stealthing away to protect yourself, and nothing wrong with running away.

There is nothing right about giving a player the ability to freely escape from any fight with no consequences. If there are no risks, there should be no rewards. No ability in this game should guarantee your survival. While cloak isn't that strong, it is very close.

there is risk, glass cannon for both nb's and magsorc, you have cloak or shield and under this you are glass cannon, if one oth those dont work then you chave only choice to leavy pvp or joing to tank meta and make by it less diversity

about risk for glass cannon you cant deal damage and take other damage at once without acive defense like on magice you need to have mostly 100% uptime shield to not get bursted faster even by tank and on nb you need nonstop ticking hots/shield and cloaking for breakt to get health again
on tank build you just deal damage like mindless bot, you see your health went down to 50% or less, so you push few buttons to heal, buffs and apply HOT and with HOT you still attacking someone without bigger push on you while this glass cannon need to be aware about every hit becasue every hit can take donw over 50% of his health if not aware

so you are wrong, sorcs and nb's have risk for option to escape from fight as being mostly glass cannon wchich can be melted in moment by jsut dots/proc sets on even tank build while the only disadvantage on tank is hie worse mobility without mist form

Daus wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

About 90% of my Battleground death recaps have at least once Sload source on it, and it's almost always the highest damage number. I'm sure an enormous percentage of the population is using it because it's not overpowered at all. The equivalent of a Dawnbreaker every 6 seconds (though obviously not all as burst)? Yea, that's totally balanced.

Sounds like Skoria to me. It's very rare that's not on my death recap.

https://imgur.com/a/s28q6un

at last dont look on assasins will 10k hit..its only because I was cut-off from cloak because of sload ofc...
most of death also are caused because cloak not working..cant supress any other dot or hide before other hits and gues what about healin... vigor is healing for full 905 health per second while sload is this 825

Open world I have seen sloads in the death recap of being Xv1ed. But not nearly as much as I’ve seen sorcs using overload from the back of a Zerg. . Kind of easy to dodge but there’s so many of them and they use Rune Cage whenever possible.

Juhasow wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

morrowind SP load screen says the following:

"there is nothing to be ashamed of nor wrong with running away or hiding from a fight you know you cannot win, it is better to escape than to die. come back when you are stronger, more prepared, and maybe even bring some friends"

there is nothing wrong with stealthing away to protect yourself, and nothing wrong with running away.

There is nothing right about giving a player the ability to freely escape from any fight with no consequences. If there are no risks, there should be no rewards. No ability in this game should guarantee your survival. While cloak isn't that strong, it is very close.

there is risk, glass cannon for both nb's and magsorc, you have cloak or shield and under this you are glass cannon, if one oth those dont work then you chave only choice to leavy pvp or joing to tank meta and make by it less diversity

about risk for glass cannon you cant deal damage and take other damage at once without acive defense like on magice you need to have mostly 100% uptime shield to not get bursted faster even by tank and on nb you need nonstop ticking hots/shield and cloaking for breakt to get health again
on tank build you just deal damage like mindless bot, you see your health went down to 50% or less, so you push few buttons to heal, buffs and apply HOT and with HOT you still attacking someone without bigger push on you while this glass cannon need to be aware about every hit becasue every hit can take donw over 50% of his health if not aware

so you are wrong, sorcs and nb's have risk for option to escape from fight as being mostly glass cannon wchich can be melted in moment by jsut dots/proc sets on even tank build while the only disadvantage on tank is hie worse mobility without mist form

Last time I checked glass cannon builds couldnt hold pressure of 1vX easily. Sorc and stamblades can. Saying "they're glass cannons under their defenses" is most radicolous think I've ever heared. It's like saying "tank is glass cannon without high resistances block and healing". Fact that magsorc or stamblade defenses are based on different rules then regular tank builds doesnt mean they're glass cannon. They just have different defense requiring different playstyle but this defense is still strong and what is most funny sometimes even stronger then mentioned tanks defenses.

As for the definition of glass cannon beeing build that when he's not watching carefully he can get health easily dropped down under 50% it's just part of the true. Yes glass cannon builds need to watch out because they can get their heatlh easily dropped down and then things start to be nasty because refreshing health back to decent values is problematic. This is not the case with magsorc or stamblade. They can restore health back to full very easily and without issues. Cloak stops any incoming dmg completly so You'll be able to restore Your health without huge pressure. Healing ward is stronger with lower health so basicly lower Your health is stronger Your defense becomes. It's not like this basic defenses cant be connected with other things to create very strong and reliable defense combos. For stamblade it's cloak , roll dodge , shade , fear , for magsorc it's healing ward, hardened ward , annulment , dark deal , streak. And this is just abilities list. There is also lot of sets that supports this 2 builds defenses in much stronger ways then it would do for other builds.

You can say "yeah but other classes can also roll dodge same like other classes can also shieldstack". The problem is stamblade takes the highest adventage of roll dodging because of what he can connect it with , magsorc takes the highest adventage of shieldstacking because of 1 additional shield and what he can connect it with.

Calling magsorc or stamblade glass cannons this days only because their defenses are different from tank defenses is silly. If You want to see how glass cannon looks like try low recovery dual wield stamplar for example. You'll see difference between this build and magsorc/stamblade instantly.

well but if you want go for those defences :cloak or shields you are mainly forced to go in glass cannon and dont say to try go without regens because it can work only for ganker or zerger
you in heavy armor go with lesser regens than medium/light armor but you have passive in heavy armore to giving back resourced when damaged (yes I know it got big nerf but at all its how heavy is working for sustain)

yes I can cloak in tankly buil but will do it maybe 2, max 3 times i short time and cant do more, same is with shields but it can work only with magsorc as only he have good class damage shield outside armor but at all it wont be to much efficient to him on heavy, better will be jsut to go into full tankinies without even thinking for shieldstack

and without cloak and shields well...we have every 5 classes looking same and working similiar..the only difference is just colour of skills lol

and as nb's strong power for glass cannon and sorcs you know..we have tool to break in 100% their full defences
dont let nb in medium enter to cloak...just dots will melt him
as for sorc take shieldbreaker and spam mindlessly LA and this is bypassing all deefence of sorc (will also mention to add sload which we have today and sorc is just getting rekt with this)

and the only mechanic efficient agaisnt those tank are jsut bleed dot builds but hey! they work even more efficient against those glass cannon build ( only nb can have advantage in defense to this bul until is cloak and nothing is breaking this) and sorc shields are melthing even more with these dost because shields dont have resists etc so basic damage without cirts is just melthing those shields very fast

will zos please change this set already! it took them a week to change the new trial sets >_<

Edziu wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

morrowind SP load screen says the following:

"there is nothing to be ashamed of nor wrong with running away or hiding from a fight you know you cannot win, it is better to escape than to die. come back when you are stronger, more prepared, and maybe even bring some friends"

there is nothing wrong with stealthing away to protect yourself, and nothing wrong with running away.

There is nothing right about giving a player the ability to freely escape from any fight with no consequences. If there are no risks, there should be no rewards. No ability in this game should guarantee your survival. While cloak isn't that strong, it is very close.

there is risk, glass cannon for both nb's and magsorc, you have cloak or shield and under this you are glass cannon, if one oth those dont work then you chave only choice to leavy pvp or joing to tank meta and make by it less diversity

about risk for glass cannon you cant deal damage and take other damage at once without acive defense like on magice you need to have mostly 100% uptime shield to not get bursted faster even by tank and on nb you need nonstop ticking hots/shield and cloaking for breakt to get health again
on tank build you just deal damage like mindless bot, you see your health went down to 50% or less, so you push few buttons to heal, buffs and apply HOT and with HOT you still attacking someone without bigger push on you while this glass cannon need to be aware about every hit becasue every hit can take donw over 50% of his health if not aware

so you are wrong, sorcs and nb's have risk for option to escape from fight as being mostly glass cannon wchich can be melted in moment by jsut dots/proc sets on even tank build while the only disadvantage on tank is hie worse mobility without mist form

Last time I checked glass cannon builds couldnt hold pressure of 1vX easily. Sorc and stamblades can. Saying "they're glass cannons under their defenses" is most radicolous think I've ever heared. It's like saying "tank is glass cannon without high resistances block and healing". Fact that magsorc or stamblade defenses are based on different rules then regular tank builds doesnt mean they're glass cannon. They just have different defense requiring different playstyle but this defense is still strong and what is most funny sometimes even stronger then mentioned tanks defenses.

As for the definition of glass cannon beeing build that when he's not watching carefully he can get health easily dropped down under 50% it's just part of the true. Yes glass cannon builds need to watch out because they can get their heatlh easily dropped down and then things start to be nasty because refreshing health back to decent values is problematic. This is not the case with magsorc or stamblade. They can restore health back to full very easily and without issues. Cloak stops any incoming dmg completly so You'll be able to restore Your health without huge pressure. Healing ward is stronger with lower health so basicly lower Your health is stronger Your defense becomes. It's not like this basic defenses cant be connected with other things to create very strong and reliable defense combos. For stamblade it's cloak , roll dodge , shade , fear , for magsorc it's healing ward, hardened ward , annulment , dark deal , streak. And this is just abilities list. There is also lot of sets that supports this 2 builds defenses in much stronger ways then it would do for other builds.

You can say "yeah but other classes can also roll dodge same like other classes can also shieldstack". The problem is stamblade takes the highest adventage of roll dodging because of what he can connect it with , magsorc takes the highest adventage of shieldstacking because of 1 additional shield and what he can connect it with.

Calling magsorc or stamblade glass cannons this days only because their defenses are different from tank defenses is silly. If You want to see how glass cannon looks like try low recovery dual wield stamplar for example. You'll see difference between this build and magsorc/stamblade instantly.

well but if you want go for those defences :cloak or shields you are mainly forced to go in glass cannon and dont say to try go without regens because it can work only for ganker or zerger
you in heavy armor go with lesser regens than medium/light armor but you have passive in heavy armore to giving back resourced when damaged (yes I know it got big nerf but at all its how heavy is working for sustain)

yes I can cloak in tankly buil but will do it maybe 2, max 3 times i short time and cant do more, same is with shields but it can work only with magsorc as only he have good class damage shield outside armor but at all it wont be to much efficient to him on heavy, better will be jsut to go into full tankinies without even thinking for shieldstack

and without cloak and shields well...we have every 5 classes looking same and working similiar..the only difference is just colour of skills lol

and as nb's strong power for glass cannon and sorcs you know..we have tool to break in 100% their full defences
dont let nb in medium enter to cloak...just dots will melt him
as for sorc take shieldbreaker and spam mindlessly LA and this is bypassing all deefence of sorc (will also mention to add sload which we have today and sorc is just getting rekt with this)

and the only mechanic efficient agaisnt those tank are jsut bleed dot builds but hey! they work even more efficient against those glass cannon build ( only nb can have advantage in defense to this bul until is cloak and nothing is breaking this) and sorc shields are melthing even more with these dost because shields dont have resists etc so basic damage without cirts is just melthing those shields very fast

If You can hold Your ground against enemie and You have reliable source of defense then You're not glass cannon. Fact that Your health can be dropped down faster if You dont watch out doesnt make You glass cannon. Both magsorcs and stamblades have reliable sources of defense very high damage and more then enough sustain to easily deal with the fact they take more dmg from hits then tanks. Like I said already having different defense then tank doesnt make You glass cannon if you can still survive. Glass cannon is the build that when he is unable to do keep constant dmg pressure or his dmg combo fails it means he will be instantly dead without any ways to prevent that from happening. Is stamblade or magsorc having that issue ? I dont think so.

You can cloak more time in heavy armor build then in medium armor one since heavy armor provides also magicka restoring which medium armor dont have. The difference is that people adapting their builds to certain playstyles and this is why medium armor users have option to cloak more because they invest into magicka recovery . Medium armor itself have nothing to do with it. As for magsorc there is no need to run in heavy why we even touch that ? Is fact that heavy armor is not good for magosrc makes magsorc some kind of worse ?

As for nb's goes it's mostly l2p issue. I know many nb's that can hold their ground pretty decently even when cloak fails just with dodging , using shade and fearing enemie that chase You . All You need is just decent LoS area You can take adventage of and every nb with brain should bring people to that area if he plays PvP alone. If You're in area like that using cloak is not an issue since enemie wont be able to reliably use their cloak counters. As for light attack shieldbreaker spammers if sorc dies to them it's also L2P issue. If someone just brainlesly spams light attacks at You that deals 2k dmg to Your health and You die from it then problem is on Your side. Sorc most of the time starts to panic and brainlesly spam healing ward which doesnt let ability to expoire with heal. Just use healing ward when You're at ~60% health then roll dodge then stun enemie and 1-2 seconds later dodge 1 more time and done You're getting healed to full. You can still keep dmg pressure on enemie that is just brainlesly spamming light attacks with shieldbreaker on You. You can streak through him and use dark deal right after that toi get heal and resources back when enemie is breaking free. When using resto ulti You have 7+ seconds window to do dmg on that opponent. You still have surge heals on top of that. Seriously there is no issue to kill LA spammer with shieldbreaker. If situation goes really bad and You know You want win just flee away with blink or pop invisibility pot. It's not like You should be able to kill everyone and win every fight.

Bleed builds sucks against decent magsorc and stamblades. It's not like bleed damage can go through shields or cloak. Shields have 0 resistances anyway so basicly bleeds main feature which is 100% penetration is not working agaisnt shields but shields prevent bleeds from critting so basicly bleeds deal less dmg to shields then to health bar protected by 30k physical and 3k crit resistance. Mechanics afficient agaisnt tanks is just draining them out of resources and using CC's that goes through block and guess what sorc and nb have 2 most reliable stuns like that. There are tank builds that can do pretty decent dmg that's a fact but this is more of a game ballance issue then reason to think magsorc or stamblade defenses are weak by design.

Juhasow wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

morrowind SP load screen says the following:

"there is nothing to be ashamed of nor wrong with running away or hiding from a fight you know you cannot win, it is better to escape than to die. come back when you are stronger, more prepared, and maybe even bring some friends"

there is nothing wrong with stealthing away to protect yourself, and nothing wrong with running away.

There is nothing right about giving a player the ability to freely escape from any fight with no consequences. If there are no risks, there should be no rewards. No ability in this game should guarantee your survival. While cloak isn't that strong, it is very close.

there is risk, glass cannon for both nb's and magsorc, you have cloak or shield and under this you are glass cannon, if one oth those dont work then you chave only choice to leavy pvp or joing to tank meta and make by it less diversity

about risk for glass cannon you cant deal damage and take other damage at once without acive defense like on magice you need to have mostly 100% uptime shield to not get bursted faster even by tank and on nb you need nonstop ticking hots/shield and cloaking for breakt to get health again
on tank build you just deal damage like mindless bot, you see your health went down to 50% or less, so you push few buttons to heal, buffs and apply HOT and with HOT you still attacking someone without bigger push on you while this glass cannon need to be aware about every hit becasue every hit can take donw over 50% of his health if not aware

so you are wrong, sorcs and nb's have risk for option to escape from fight as being mostly glass cannon wchich can be melted in moment by jsut dots/proc sets on even tank build while the only disadvantage on tank is hie worse mobility without mist form

Last time I checked glass cannon builds couldnt hold pressure of 1vX easily. Sorc and stamblades can. Saying "they're glass cannons under their defenses" is most radicolous think I've ever heared. It's like saying "tank is glass cannon without high resistances block and healing". Fact that magsorc or stamblade defenses are based on different rules then regular tank builds doesnt mean they're glass cannon. They just have different defense requiring different playstyle but this defense is still strong and what is most funny sometimes even stronger then mentioned tanks defenses.

As for the definition of glass cannon beeing build that when he's not watching carefully he can get health easily dropped down under 50% it's just part of the true. Yes glass cannon builds need to watch out because they can get their heatlh easily dropped down and then things start to be nasty because refreshing health back to decent values is problematic. This is not the case with magsorc or stamblade. They can restore health back to full very easily and without issues. Cloak stops any incoming dmg completly so You'll be able to restore Your health without huge pressure. Healing ward is stronger with lower health so basicly lower Your health is stronger Your defense becomes. It's not like this basic defenses cant be connected with other things to create very strong and reliable defense combos. For stamblade it's cloak , roll dodge , shade , fear , for magsorc it's healing ward, hardened ward , annulment , dark deal , streak. And this is just abilities list. There is also lot of sets that supports this 2 builds defenses in much stronger ways then it would do for other builds.

You can say "yeah but other classes can also roll dodge same like other classes can also shieldstack". The problem is stamblade takes the highest adventage of roll dodging because of what he can connect it with , magsorc takes the highest adventage of shieldstacking because of 1 additional shield and what he can connect it with.

Calling magsorc or stamblade glass cannons this days only because their defenses are different from tank defenses is silly. If You want to see how glass cannon looks like try low recovery dual wield stamplar for example. You'll see difference between this build and magsorc/stamblade instantly.

well but if you want go for those defences :cloak or shields you are mainly forced to go in glass cannon and dont say to try go without regens because it can work only for ganker or zerger
you in heavy armor go with lesser regens than medium/light armor but you have passive in heavy armore to giving back resourced when damaged (yes I know it got big nerf but at all its how heavy is working for sustain)

yes I can cloak in tankly buil but will do it maybe 2, max 3 times i short time and cant do more, same is with shields but it can work only with magsorc as only he have good class damage shield outside armor but at all it wont be to much efficient to him on heavy, better will be jsut to go into full tankinies without even thinking for shieldstack

and without cloak and shields well...we have every 5 classes looking same and working similiar..the only difference is just colour of skills lol

and as nb's strong power for glass cannon and sorcs you know..we have tool to break in 100% their full defences
dont let nb in medium enter to cloak...just dots will melt him
as for sorc take shieldbreaker and spam mindlessly LA and this is bypassing all deefence of sorc (will also mention to add sload which we have today and sorc is just getting rekt with this)

and the only mechanic efficient agaisnt those tank are jsut bleed dot builds but hey! they work even more efficient against those glass cannon build ( only nb can have advantage in defense to this bul until is cloak and nothing is breaking this) and sorc shields are melthing even more with these dost because shields dont have resists etc so basic damage without cirts is just melthing those shields very fast

If You can hold Your ground against enemie and You have reliable source of defense then You're not glass cannon. Fact that Your health can be dropped down faster if You dont watch out doesnt make You glass cannon. Both magsorcs and stamblades have reliable sources of defense very high damage and more then enough sustain to easily deal with the fact they take more dmg from hits then tanks. Like I said already having different defense then tank doesnt make You glass cannon if you can still survive. Glass cannon is the build that when he is unable to do keep constant dmg pressure or his dmg combo fails it means he will be instantly dead without any ways to prevent that from happening. Is stamblade or magsorc having that issue ? I dont think so.

You can cloak more time in heavy armor build then in medium armor one since heavy armor provides also magicka restoring which medium armor dont have. The difference is that people adapting their builds to certain playstyles and this is why medium armor users have option to cloak more because they invest into magicka recovery . Medium armor itself have nothing to do with it. As for magsorc there is no need to run in heavy why we even touch that ? Is fact that heavy armor is not good for magosrc makes magsorc some kind of worse ?

As for nb's goes it's mostly l2p issue. I know many nb's that can hold their ground pretty decently even when cloak fails just with dodging , using shade and fearing enemie that chase You . All You need is just decent LoS area You can take adventage of and every nb with brain should bring people to that area if he plays PvP alone. If You're in area like that using cloak is not an issue since enemie wont be able to reliably use their cloak counters. As for light attack shieldbreaker spammers if sorc dies to them it's also L2P issue. If someone just brainlesly spams light attacks at You that deals 2k dmg to Your health and You die from it then problem is on Your side. Sorc most of the time starts to panic and brainlesly spam healing ward which doesnt let ability to expoire with heal. Just use healing ward when You're at ~60% health then roll dodge then stun enemie and 1-2 seconds later dodge 1 more time and done You're getting healed to full. You can still keep dmg pressure on enemie that is just brainlesly spamming light attacks with shieldbreaker on You. You can streak through him and use dark deal right after that toi get heal and resources back when enemie is breaking free. When using resto ulti You have 2 seconds window to do dmg on that opponent. You still have surge heals on top of that. Seriously there is no issue to kill LA spammer with shieldbreaker. If situation goes really bad and You know You want win just flee away with blink or pop invisibility pot. It's not like You should be able to kill everyone and win every fight.

Bleed builds sucks against decent magsorc and stamblades. It's not like bleed damage can go through shields or cloak. Shields have 0 resistances anyway so basicly bleeds main feature which is 100% penetration is not working agaisnt shields but shields prevent bleeds from critting so basicly bleeds deal less dmg to shields then to health bar protected by 30k physical and 3k crit resistance. Mechanics afficient agaisnt tanks is just draining them out of resources and using CC's that goes through block and guess what sorc and nb have 2 most reliable stuns like that. There are tank builds that can do pretty decent dmg that's a fact but this is more of a game ballance issue then reason to think magsorc or stamblade defenses are weak by design.

I mentioned bleed, dot build arnt that much efficient against nb but I wrote it jsut melt this nb if he cant enter t cloak (see sload and therad title)
and when I was mentioning this bleed dot build I had on mind you dont nuse only bleeds on those buidls right? only bleed will be worse against sorc ehields but rest dots dont change to much in burst potention (and again see sload and therad title) and tbh those stacked dots themselfves jsut melting sorc shields + this additional sload is overkill to sorc even without shieldbreaker, sorc dont have tham much healing as you can have on tankyl build in heavy which also have bonus to healing recevied

this is my point as you see glass cannon concept much different than me

but tbh then glass cannon dont exist in this game since hm??? few years? maybe since when 1st proc sets showed and people stopped maxing dmg (cuz free proc damage!) and started to go with sustain if not heavy armored but its a little going to offtipc

Juhasow wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

morrowind SP load screen says the following:

"there is nothing to be ashamed of nor wrong with running away or hiding from a fight you know you cannot win, it is better to escape than to die. come back when you are stronger, more prepared, and maybe even bring some friends"

there is nothing wrong with stealthing away to protect yourself, and nothing wrong with running away.

There is nothing right about giving a player the ability to freely escape from any fight with no consequences. If there are no risks, there should be no rewards. No ability in this game should guarantee your survival. While cloak isn't that strong, it is very close.

there is risk, glass cannon for both nb's and magsorc, you have cloak or shield and under this you are glass cannon, if one oth those dont work then you chave only choice to leavy pvp or joing to tank meta and make by it less diversity

about risk for glass cannon you cant deal damage and take other damage at once without acive defense like on magice you need to have mostly 100% uptime shield to not get bursted faster even by tank and on nb you need nonstop ticking hots/shield and cloaking for breakt to get health again
on tank build you just deal damage like mindless bot, you see your health went down to 50% or less, so you push few buttons to heal, buffs and apply HOT and with HOT you still attacking someone without bigger push on you while this glass cannon need to be aware about every hit becasue every hit can take donw over 50% of his health if not aware

so you are wrong, sorcs and nb's have risk for option to escape from fight as being mostly glass cannon wchich can be melted in moment by jsut dots/proc sets on even tank build while the only disadvantage on tank is hie worse mobility without mist form

Last time I checked glass cannon builds couldnt hold pressure of 1vX easily. Sorc and stamblades can. Saying "they're glass cannons under their defenses" is most radicolous think I've ever heared. It's like saying "tank is glass cannon without high resistances block and healing". Fact that magsorc or stamblade defenses are based on different rules then regular tank builds doesnt mean they're glass cannon. They just have different defense requiring different playstyle but this defense is still strong and what is most funny sometimes even stronger then mentioned tanks defenses.

As for the definition of glass cannon beeing build that when he's not watching carefully he can get health easily dropped down under 50% it's just part of the true. Yes glass cannon builds need to watch out because they can get their heatlh easily dropped down and then things start to be nasty because refreshing health back to decent values is problematic. This is not the case with magsorc or stamblade. They can restore health back to full very easily and without issues. Cloak stops any incoming dmg completly so You'll be able to restore Your health without huge pressure. Healing ward is stronger with lower health so basicly lower Your health is stronger Your defense becomes. It's not like this basic defenses cant be connected with other things to create very strong and reliable defense combos. For stamblade it's cloak , roll dodge , shade , fear , for magsorc it's healing ward, hardened ward , annulment , dark deal , streak. And this is just abilities list. There is also lot of sets that supports this 2 builds defenses in much stronger ways then it would do for other builds.

You can say "yeah but other classes can also roll dodge same like other classes can also shieldstack". The problem is stamblade takes the highest adventage of roll dodging because of what he can connect it with , magsorc takes the highest adventage of shieldstacking because of 1 additional shield and what he can connect it with.

Calling magsorc or stamblade glass cannons this days only because their defenses are different from tank defenses is silly. If You want to see how glass cannon looks like try low recovery dual wield stamplar for example. You'll see difference between this build and magsorc/stamblade instantly.

well but if you want go for those defences :cloak or shields you are mainly forced to go in glass cannon and dont say to try go without regens because it can work only for ganker or zerger
you in heavy armor go with lesser regens than medium/light armor but you have passive in heavy armore to giving back resourced when damaged (yes I know it got big nerf but at all its how heavy is working for sustain)

yes I can cloak in tankly buil but will do it maybe 2, max 3 times i short time and cant do more, same is with shields but it can work only with magsorc as only he have good class damage shield outside armor but at all it wont be to much efficient to him on heavy, better will be jsut to go into full tankinies without even thinking for shieldstack

and without cloak and shields well...we have every 5 classes looking same and working similiar..the only difference is just colour of skills lol

and as nb's strong power for glass cannon and sorcs you know..we have tool to break in 100% their full defences
dont let nb in medium enter to cloak...just dots will melt him
as for sorc take shieldbreaker and spam mindlessly LA and this is bypassing all deefence of sorc (will also mention to add sload which we have today and sorc is just getting rekt with this)

and the only mechanic efficient agaisnt those tank are jsut bleed dot builds but hey! they work even more efficient against those glass cannon build ( only nb can have advantage in defense to this bul until is cloak and nothing is breaking this) and sorc shields are melthing even more with these dost because shields dont have resists etc so basic damage without cirts is just melthing those shields very fast

If You can hold Your ground against enemie and You have reliable source of defense then You're not glass cannon. Fact that Your health can be dropped down faster if You dont watch out doesnt make You glass cannon. Both magsorcs and stamblades have reliable sources of defense very high damage and more then enough sustain to easily deal with the fact they take more dmg from hits then tanks. Like I said already having different defense then tank doesnt make You glass cannon if you can still survive. Glass cannon is the build that when he is unable to do keep constant dmg pressure or his dmg combo fails it means he will be instantly dead without any ways to prevent that from happening. Is stamblade or magsorc having that issue ? I dont think so.

You can cloak more time in heavy armor build then in medium armor one since heavy armor provides also magicka restoring which medium armor dont have. The difference is that people adapting their builds to certain playstyles and this is why medium armor users have option to cloak more because they invest into magicka recovery . Medium armor itself have nothing to do with it. As for magsorc there is no need to run in heavy why we even touch that ? Is fact that heavy armor is not good for magosrc makes magsorc some kind of worse ?

As for nb's goes it's mostly l2p issue. I know many nb's that can hold their ground pretty decently even when cloak fails just with dodging , using shade and fearing enemie that chase You . All You need is just decent LoS area You can take adventage of and every nb with brain should bring people to that area if he plays PvP alone. If You're in area like that using cloak is not an issue since enemie wont be able to reliably use their cloak counters. As for light attack shieldbreaker spammers if sorc dies to them it's also L2P issue. If someone just brainlesly spams light attacks at You that deals 2k dmg to Your health and You die from it then problem is on Your side. Sorc most of the time starts to panic and brainlesly spam healing ward which doesnt let ability to expoire with heal. Just use healing ward when You're at ~60% health then roll dodge then stun enemie and 1-2 seconds later dodge 1 more time and done You're getting healed to full. You can still keep dmg pressure on enemie that is just brainlesly spamming light attacks with shieldbreaker on You. You can streak through him and use dark deal right after that toi get heal and resources back when enemie is breaking free. When using resto ulti You have 2 seconds window to do dmg on that opponent. You still have surge heals on top of that. Seriously there is no issue to kill LA spammer with shieldbreaker. If situation goes really bad and You know You want win just flee away with blink or pop invisibility pot. It's not like You should be able to kill everyone and win every fight.

Bleed builds sucks against decent magsorc and stamblades. It's not like bleed damage can go through shields or cloak. Shields have 0 resistances anyway so basicly bleeds main feature which is 100% penetration is not working agaisnt shields but shields prevent bleeds from critting so basicly bleeds deal less dmg to shields then to health bar protected by 30k physical and 3k crit resistance. Mechanics afficient agaisnt tanks is just draining them out of resources and using CC's that goes through block and guess what sorc and nb have 2 most reliable stuns like that. There are tank builds that can do pretty decent dmg that's a fact but this is more of a game ballance issue then reason to think magsorc or stamblade defenses are weak by design.

correction, this entire argument is crap, theres so many things just utterly wrong with this is amazing. If you can hold your ground against players and have a reasonable defense YOU ARE WHAT CLASSES SHOULD BE not a glass cannon, the idea behind glass cannons are bombers, kill a lot of people quickly and die quickly. magsorcs and stamblades take more damage than tanks is just laughable, first off the core of nbs is avoiding damage not taking it a nb with out clock or roll dodge is sqiushier than a sorc without shields.and in what world you things sorcs 14k 6 second shield is comparable to a tanks 40k health and 35k resist is astonishing.

los'ing yes BY ALL MEANS A NB SHOULD HAVE TO USE A TREE AS DEFENSE <- sarcasm
dodge roll what about mnb toons?
sorcs needs to learn to use one of there crap heals before there even below half health, rolldodge x2 so they can use all there stam get stunned and wrecked <- totally a great idea again sarcasm
Using resto ulti give you a whole 2 second to kill your opponent omg 2 seconds, wtf am i going to do with all that extra time
surge is *** in pvp

bleed dmg, no it wont go threw shield just it will use them faster to where you can get to a 16k health bar with 11k resist and 0 crit resist
again sorc resist 11k not 30k
and idk that you point about sorcs and nbs stunning tanks are but ya gl bursting down a take

like omg the salt in this post is literally killing me