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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
Is 20% off crowns enough discount to get you to purchase?
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newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NoNot saying I absolutely never buy them, but that does not motivate me.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YesFolks, 20% is better than 0% off, which is the case for almost every day of the year!
No. It's not.
This kind of justification is just what ZOS is counting on to let this *** slide.
We've had consistent sales with 40-50% off for years now. This is just another spit in the face from ZOS.
When they bring the discount down to 10%, you'll be begging for 20%.
Actually, I'll just stop buying crowns altogether.
I won't support scumbag business tactics. Unlike some.
What's considered "scumbag business tactics"? What is the line between proper and improper?
You know well enough. It's not that hard to identify practices that are anti-consumer.
"Anti-consumer" is debatable. We are talking about discounted crowns, after all. ZOS could very well want to stop offering discounts altogether, but they decided to give 20% to be consumer-friendly.
*** no. Anti-consumer is not debatable, not in any sense or semblance. We have entire organizations in the real world dedicated to protecting consumers, and they are very good at identifying anti-consumer corporate behavior.
You would be naive to believe that ZOS offered this meager 20% discount out of the kindness of their hearts.
This is merely a test to see how low they can offer this discount and still get enough sales to justify it.
Apparently their mojo worked on you.
As a matter of fact, "anti-consumer" is debatable. What qualifies as "anti-consumer" is entirely debatable. And if we are going by the organizations you mentioned to say what qualifies and what does not - and you'd better believe that there is debate even within the organizations on that - then the current 20% discount on crowns is not anti-consumer, right? Or have they come out and said that the 20% discount is anti-consumer?0 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoFolks, 20% is better than 0% off, which is the case for almost every day of the year!
No. It's not.
This kind of justification is just what ZOS is counting on to let this *** slide.
We've had consistent sales with 40-50% off for years now. This is just another spit in the face from ZOS.
When they bring the discount down to 10%, you'll be begging for 20%.
Actually, I'll just stop buying crowns altogether.
I won't support scumbag business tactics. Unlike some.
What's considered "scumbag business tactics"? What is the line between proper and improper?
You know well enough. It's not that hard to identify practices that are anti-consumer.
"Anti-consumer" is debatable. We are talking about discounted crowns, after all. ZOS could very well want to stop offering discounts altogether, but they decided to give 20% to be consumer-friendly.
*** no. Anti-consumer is not debatable, not in any sense or semblance. We have entire organizations in the real world dedicated to protecting consumers, and they are very good at identifying anti-consumer corporate behavior.
You would be naive to believe that ZOS offered this meager 20% discount out of the kindness of their hearts.
This is merely a test to see how low they can offer this discount and still get enough sales to justify it.
Apparently their mojo worked on you.
As a matter of fact, "anti-consumer" is debatable. What qualifies as "anti-consumer" is entirely debatable. And if we are going by the organizations you mentioned to say what qualifies and what does not - and you'd better believe that there is debate even within the organizations on that - then the current 20% discount on crowns is not anti-consumer, right? Or have they come out and said that the 20% discount is anti-consumer?
You've gone and missed the entire point of this fiasco.
Hint: It's not just the discount.PC-NA Goat4 -
Aurie✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoYes, because everything is voluntary. I pay because I want to see the game around in a few years and people behind it are exceptionally talented and they don't work for free.
The game will still be around in a few years providing people are still enjoying playing it. That is the crux of the matter.
It has nothing to do with whether or not this Crown sale is successful. As many people have pointed out, if we don't vote with our feet then future Crown sales will be just as crap, if not more so.4 -
SirPaws✭✭✭YesThe 20% was enough for me. I have recently switched to PC after 3.5 years of playing on Xbox and need to get a lot of things all over again. However, it was the lustrous Nix-ox which hooked me. I got my free Nix-Ox last year and it quickly became my favourite mount due to its cultural roots (I like culture specific mounts, where's our echatere?) So to now have a Nix-Ox again makes me feel more like I'm home.
With the crowns left over and my ESO Plus sub, I still have enough to get the Imperial Edition and Adventurer pack
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Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoThis is not how you make people "impulse buy".
The crowns and the items you buy with them are far too expensive to get a steady stream of impulse purchases that end up being much more in the same time-frame than the strategic large purchases.
They need to go back to marketing school.4 -
maryriv✭✭✭✭NoA discount is a discount. They dont have to give any discount
^ this is the correct answer.
I'd like to add, I don't have to buy any crowns
Our family was prepared to buy 450 dollars on crowns this sale, now we will spend 0 dollars. See how this works
They are betting the odds. They think that the 30% off each pack they don't give will be made up by the % of people who don't understand economics nor value their time and money.
GL!4 -
Hanokihs✭✭✭✭✭YesI was already gonna restock my crowns this weekend, so the discount was a nice surprise. It didn't encourage me to spend anything extra, though; if they'd been half-price, I would've bought a lot more, just for future value's sake.
Like, I get that people bulking up on the crowns only during sales is annoying, and that it ultimately cuts into the profits, but... This doesn't seem like the best way to encourage folks to spend more money."I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum."I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.1 -
Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoYes, because everything is voluntary. I pay because I want to see the game around in a few years and people behind it are exceptionally talented and they don't work for free.
The game will still be around in a few years providing people are still enjoying playing it. That is the crux of the matter.
It has nothing to do with whether or not this Crown sale is successful. As many people have pointed out, if we don't vote with our feet then future Crown sales will be just as crap, if not more so.
Actually, that is not guaranteed.
I played City of Heroes right up until it closed. I bought a lot. In fact, the game was shutdown only because "profits weren't increasing", not that it "wasn't profitable" just that they saw a future decline on the horizon and their costs, including executive salaries, were still being paid. Profits are extra but executives and majority investors these days only care about "increasing profits".
So yes, this game can and will shutdown on short notice if money isn't coming in.
Also, it is better for us to stay playing and not paying as that increases their cost of running the game over time so that they take a bigger loss, if we really want to be influential to their practices.0 -
toxicpanda✭✭NoNo. I was going to stock up on 100,000 crowns, but 20% isnt enough for me to want to do that. I bought some crowns because i want some of the things coming out. But i did not buy as many as I would have.1
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weedgenius✭✭✭✭✭
✭No@DoctorESO There's a flaw in what you're saying that you've seemed to skim over. Discounts aren't always consumer-friendly just because they're discounts. In another context, sure, 20% off is a consumer-friendly discount, but when the historical pattern has been a discount that is persistently 20-30% higher than this one you can't ignore the dissonance, especially in conjunction with increasing costs in the Crown Store itself. Raising Crown-only item prices and decreasing discounts on Crowns = unfriendly to the buyer.
Not to mention the biggest disservice to the consumer IMO which is the potential long term effect of this sale. If enough people are willing to say "whatever, a discount is a discount!!!" and buy at the higher price point, ZOS has lost a major incentive to ever offer consumers a better discount again.PS4 NA
Better Homes & Gardens3 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yesweedgenius wrote: »@DoctorESO There's a flaw in what you're saying that you've seemed to skim over. Discounts aren't always consumer-friendly just because they're discounts. In another context, sure, 20% off is a consumer-friendly discount, but when the historical pattern has been a discount that is persistently 20-30% higher than this one you can't ignore the dissonance, especially in conjunction with increasing costs in the Crown Store itself. Raising Crown-only item prices and decreasing discounts on Crowns = unfriendly to the buyer.
Not to mention the biggest disservice to the consumer IMO which is the potential long term effect of this sale. If enough people are willing to say "whatever, a discount is a discount!!!" and buy at the higher price point, ZOS has lost a major incentive to ever offer consumers a better discount again.
No, I didn't skim over anything. What I is that ZOS may view discounted crown crates as consumer-friendly because perhaps they wanted to eliminate discounts altogether. It's a matter of perspective. Someone asserted that going from a 40% to a 20% discount amounts to black-and-white, un-debatable "scumbag tactics." What you view as "scumbag tactics," someone else views as "prudent business practices." The point is that what constitutes "anti-consumerism" is in fact up for debate. What ZOS is doing isn't some clear-cut black-and-white undebatable anti-consumer practice.0 -
Lazarus_Rising✭✭✭✭✭YesI would like to know how much of the people who voted no got a subcription running. If you want to protest against the business methods you should start with canceling the subcription.
Edited by Lazarus_Rising on May 7, 2018 12:53PMalso known as Overlich.0 -
KivakWolf✭✭✭NoLazarus_Rising wrote: »I would like to know how much of the people who voted no got a subcription running. If you want to protest against the business methods you should start with canceling the subcription.
That's not the subject of this debate. We're upset with the sale... the sale... the SALE. And the tactics that have been exposed based on the change of behavior between this sale and previous sales.
Subscriptions are a whole other ball of wax... I personally have one because of the benefits it gives. But they haven't changed those benefits dramatically since I've been a subscriber. If they did, then I'd be upset too. I personally rather pay a sub like WoW has than deal with micro-transaction shenanigans.3 -
Malacthulhu✭✭✭✭NoThey have a crown store item gifting system coming which creates an in game monetary value to every item in the game for everyone. They are not as obvious about it bc you wont be able to gift crowns straight up but, that will only be a matter of time.This opens up more crown sales for them meaning they can reduce the discounts. If you think gold farmers were bad, buckle in lol.Edited by Malacthulhu on May 7, 2018 7:19PMXbox One Na0 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoLazarus_Rising wrote: »I would like to know how much of the people who voted no got a subcription running. If you want to protest against the business methods you should start with canceling the subcription.
That's fair. However, most of us still play the game, because we love the game, and playing without the craft bag (or DLC if you don't own it separately) is a pretty bad experience (also engineered by ZOS).
If we wanted a total protest of the game, we'd basically just stop playing, at which point we're not a part of the community any longer, so why even bother?PC-NA Goat1 -
Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoIstoppucks wrote: »
Id love to see your source for that. Im sure you will come back with this poll that has 190 people haha. Trust me buddy you dont have any idea what the 99% of people who actually play this game and never step foot in the forums will be doing.
Source?0 -
Thunderknuckles✭✭✭✭NoCharliff1966 wrote: »Charliff1966 wrote: »They dont have to give a discount at all.
I don't see what is so complicated for people to understand. It's the underlying motivation that people are upset about. Not that there is or is not a sale.
Yeah its greed, but greed from the freeloaders generation whom infect our games and not the company.
No, Charliff. Nooooo. ha ha ha I mean, you're certainly free to blow your money however you want, but for what seems to be the overwhelming majority of players 120 bucks (U.S.) for, say, 21K crowns (that really won't buy you a whole lot, anyway) is genuinely an absurd price. People not wanting to pay that kind of money for something like a type of video game currency cannot at all be placed in the "freeloader" category.
People who want the game itself and everything Zeni puts out for free, sure. That's freeloading. Like an Aussie here put, that's enough money to buy food for him and his family for a week.1 -
Thunderknuckles✭✭✭✭NoFolks, 20% is better than 0% off, which is the case for almost every day of the year!
No. It's not.
This kind of justification is just what ZOS is counting on to let this *** slide.
We've had consistent sales with 40-50% off for years now. This is just another spit in the face from ZOS.
When they bring the discount down to 10%, you'll be begging for 20%.
Actually, I'll just stop buying crowns altogether.
I won't support scumbag business tactics. Unlike some.
What's considered "scumbag business tactics"? What is the line between proper and improper?
Well, one outstanding example is Mylan CEO Heather Bresch raising the price of Epipens from about $100 U.S. to $500 each. Granted, a life saving medical product like that is a far cry from Zeni charging their ridiculous prices for something that people don't actually need. Still, you asked for an example. The fact remains that if players don't want to spend money for crowns at those prices they are absolutely free to not buy'em. That does not make them cheap skates or misers.0 -
Bloodystab✭✭✭✭I will never buy crowns at any priceWhat a sad times in gaming industries, we are now...
People whine about too small "Discount" on virtual money that you use too buy virtual goods that should be actually put in game as achievements or just drop...0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭NoBloodystab wrote: »What a sad times in gaming industries, we are now...
People whine about too small "Discount" on virtual money that you use too buy virtual goods that should be actually put in game as achievements or just drop...
Well you do realise you are typing in a virtual forum about a virtual game that I guess you play? unless you don't play?0 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭NoWas planning to spend >$200.. Now=$0.00
Forget buying any crowns again.. I can live with all the random fairy pets I already have that i hardly use.3 -
TelvanniWizard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NoNumbers in the poll seem pretty clear. At least about the feelings of the forum community.0 -
Pinesy✭✭✭NoNope. I spend wayy more money than I probably should on this game (so don't say i'm a freeloader or something), heck I even pay full price for crowns more often than I buy on sale crowns, but the 20% discount is nothing. I was planning on stocking up for summerset. Which I guess is what they were banking on people to do whether or not the crowns are discounted a certain way.
Honestly the anniversary event burnt me out with the horrible RNG I encountered and I was waiting for some neat crown stuff to play around with (summerset and its houses/etc), and now I just don't really see the point anymore.
I'll just keep paying the $15 a month for the craft bag and nothing else. I mean I haven't even pre-ordered summerset yet. I don't know anymore.Edited by Pinesy on May 8, 2018 4:38PMBeezenees IGN (PC/NA)0 -
DreamsUnderStars✭✭✭✭✭YesI rarely buy crowns, and with their extortion rates for some items they likely will never get more than 20$ out of me aside from the sub.
I only bought the 3k crown pack because it was 20$It was enough for me to afford the bundle I wanted without having to save up anymore, and given that they are not likely to do another until the winter holiday season, I thought it was sufficient. I'm not delighted with it, of course, I'd rather they did 50% off, but it's been clear that they are getting more and more expensive so I was not broadsided with surprise at it like some seem to be. I fully expect this to go down to 15% or even 10% as time goes by. It is pretty obvious that Scrooge McDuck bought the company.
I read somewhere that the person who sets the price for the cash shop items worked for Perfect World or EA... not sure which. So that should tell you a lot.Edited by DreamsUnderStars on May 8, 2018 8:29PM0 -
KivakWolf✭✭✭NoSo you give an example of improper business tactics. What is a example of proper business tactics? And how is the line between the two defined?
Proper business tactics don't need to be explained because you experience them every day and don't notice them. Dependable pricing on goods with moderate increases, managers you can talk to, sales announced ahead of time, returning items, the list goes on. Basically, when a business values their customers enough to not give them price whiplash and not price gouge just because they're the only store in town.
Perhaps "proper" isn't the right word. These are practices respected by customers. Violate too many of these and customers loose respect for the company and choose to shop elsewhere. Some customers have enough respect for the store to bring their concerns to a manager and tell them why they're not buying x or y and why they don't feel like shopping there anymore - which is what we're doing.
Edited by KivakWolf on May 9, 2018 5:58AM2 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YesSo you give an example of improper business tactics. What is a example of proper business tactics? And how is the line between the two defined?
Proper business tactics don't need to be explained because you experience them every day and don't notice them. Dependable pricing on goods with moderate increases, managers you can talk to, sales announced ahead of time, returning items, the list goes on. Basically, when a business values their customers enough to not give them price whiplash and not price gouge just because they're the only store in town.
Perhaps "proper" isn't the right word. These are practices respected by customers. Violate too many of these and customers loose respect for the company and choose to shop elsewhere. Some customers have enough respect for the store to bring their concerns to a manager and tell them why they're not buying x or y and why they don't feel like shopping there anymore - which is what we're doing.
Thank you. It's not always easy to define "proper" and "improper" business tactics or where to draw the line between the two. Reasonable minds will differ, and it is not black-and-white undebatable, as one person stated earlier (which prompted me to ask the question you responded to).0 -
MerlinPendragon✭✭✭✭YesSorry, but offering a smaller discount than previous sales is not improper in any way, shape or form.
Insisting that every sale be 40 to 50 percent off or threatening not to buy is absurd. This is just more of the outrage culture making it's way into every nook and cranny of our world._____________________________________
Merlin Pendragon - Uther Pendragon - The Lady of the Lake - Sir Lancelot1 -
KivakWolf✭✭✭NoThank you. It's not always easy to define "proper" and "improper" business tactics or where to draw the line between the two. Reasonable minds will differ, and it is not black-and-white undebatable, as one person stated earlier (which prompted me to ask the question you responded to).
This is actually a really good point. You can go to some areas of the world where sales don't even exist. In some areas, haggling is the primary way of goods exchange - which is anything but 'fair'. It's not even a "Western" culture thing because I can go within a day's drive and find all three types (and I'm sure there are more). So I wouldn't dare say that the actual method of goods distribution is universally accepted by all players of ESO.
I think the core of the issue comes down to predictability and a change in methods. If you're used to one method practiced by one company and they suddenly change it, that's not traditionally accepted as "proper". Say Mr. Wiggles Bait shop haggles the price of worms for years, then suddenly it's a set price. Some people will love it because they were not good hagglers, others will hate it because they used to get a better price. Why did the change happen? You'd have to look at the other business practices. Maybe they come out with a statement that says it's more predictable or "we want to be fair to those who can't haggle well". Even if you were good at it and now have to pay "more" because haggling went away, you'd at least understand why.
I think the same goes for ESO... They had sales of 40-50% every 6 months for years. So when they suddenly come down to 20% with no warning, no explanation, and no clear benefit to one group of customers, just the company, then you have to sit back and look at the other business practices to see what the motive is. They haven't come out with a statement giving an explanation, so we look at the other factors: raising the base price of crowns and raising the crown price of items. Since the game population is only growing, we can't assume it's because they're hurting for money. So in lue of no statement by ESO the only logical answer remains: they just want to pull more money out of customers.
And that, as far as I am concerned, is not a "proper" business action.
Edited by KivakWolf on May 9, 2018 2:18PM3