Monetisation of New Systems

Apache_Kid

So if I don't buy these special cosmetic packs will they showed up as greyed out when I go to the station? I don't want them to be visible if they aren't available in game for gold. I'm not going to buy them and having the outfit system show things I dont/can't collect bothers my OCD

SGT_Wolfe101st

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Also, Turelus you forgot to mention that they have now also gone from selling Crown Store exclusive motifs, to Crown Crate exclusive motifs cut up in pieces and sold to us in parts via the gambling system (good luck trying to catch them all!).

?? Would you please explain what you're referring to ? I haven't seen any motif being included in crates... is that new on PTS ?

Yes it's on the PTS. The new crates will drop the Maomar motif, which looks pretty dang awesome, but only from crates, and only single pages of the motif. So you're going to have to spend a huge amount of dollars and battle RNG hidden inside RNG if you want the entire motif ...

Just another step down the slippery slope of [snip] business practises that this company is infamous for now.

Are you ******* kidding me

Tis True, but ask the Zo$ defenders, this is acceptable cause, profit and cosmetic and cause reasons...

[Edited for quote]

Apache_Kid

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Also, Turelus you forgot to mention that they have now also gone from selling Crown Store exclusive motifs, to Crown Crate exclusive motifs cut up in pieces and sold to us in parts via the gambling system (good luck trying to catch them all!).

?? Would you please explain what you're referring to ? I haven't seen any motif being included in crates... is that new on PTS ?

Yes it's on the PTS. The new crates will drop the Maomar motif, which looks pretty dang awesome, but only from crates, and only single pages of the motif. So you're going to have to spend a huge amount of dollars and battle RNG hidden inside RNG if you want the entire motif ...

Just another step down the slippery slope of [snip] business practises that this company is infamous for now.

Are you ******* kidding me

Tis True, but ask the Zo$ defenders, this is acceptable cause, profit and cosmetic and cause reasons...

Oh yea? I would love to know what the real profits of this game are. This isn't a normal business, once they design something and sell it, there are no other manufacturing expenses and they can sell as many as they want til the end of time. So how much money has actually been generated by the crates and the $150 homes and the $40 mounts?

I bet if the player-base saw the profits this game generated we would be absolutely sick.

The performance on Xbox is abysmal, players have been crashing multiple times a day with it being worse since Dragon Bones and it's straight radio silence.

TAKE SOME OF THIS MONEY THAT WE THROW AT YOU AND RE-INVEST IT BACK INTO YOUR GAME.

And now you're putting INDIVIUDAL MOTIF PAGES IN CRATES?

Nah my outrage levels are off the charts. Performance on my platform has gotten drastically worse in the last year and a half I've been playing this game and instead of making it marginally better all they do is try to suck even more profit out of the game. Absolutely sickened by this news about the maomer motif.

[Edited for quote]

Turelus

Apache_Kid wrote: »

So if I don't buy these special cosmetic packs will they showed up as greyed out when I go to the station? I don't want them to be visible if they aren't available in game for gold. I'm not going to buy them and having the outfit system show things I dont/can't collect bothers my OCD

Do the current Crown Store motifs? I don't know as I own them (yes I am part of the problem I complain about) so they show open on mine.

Apache_Kid

Turelus wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

So if I don't buy these special cosmetic packs will they showed up as greyed out when I go to the station? I don't want them to be visible if they aren't available in game for gold. I'm not going to buy them and having the outfit system show things I dont/can't collect bothers my OCD

Do the current Crown Store motifs? I don't know as I own them (yes I am part of the problem I complain about) so they show open on mine.

I don't know either because I own them as well. However, the prices for those motifs were actually reasonable. Close to one month of ESO+ crowns can afford it. I find it hard to believe that these will be the same price based on how they look. You know they are gonna be more. Guess this will finally be the patch I learn to live with not knowing everything cause there is no chance in hell I open crown crates for individual motif pages

Yuls

Turelus wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

So if I don't buy these special cosmetic packs will they showed up as greyed out when I go to the station? I don't want them to be visible if they aren't available in game for gold. I'm not going to buy them and having the outfit system show things I dont/can't collect bothers my OCD

Do the current Crown Store motifs? I don't know as I own them (yes I am part of the problem I complain about) so they show open on mine.

Usually they do. There's the greyed out tsaesci motif already...

Apache_Kid

Yuls wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

So if I don't buy these special cosmetic packs will they showed up as greyed out when I go to the station? I don't want them to be visible if they aren't available in game for gold. I'm not going to buy them and having the outfit system show things I dont/can't collect bothers my OCD

Do the current Crown Store motifs? I don't know as I own them (yes I am part of the problem I complain about) so they show open on mine.

Usually they do. There's the greyed out tsaesci motif already...

Yup and that one drives me insane that it's there

jypcy

Honestly after Gina hinted that undaunted styles would be added to the outfitting system I was hoping that they’d be added as a reward tied to the content:
Complete the dungeon on normal > trophy added to collectibles
Complete the dungeon on veteran > bust added to collectibles
Complete the dungeon on hm > undaunted head/shoulder styles added to collectibles
In my eyes it’d have been a perfectly logical step to take, it’s following a system that’s already in game, and as others have pointed out, an incentive to actually go back and repeat old content that’s often ignored by veteran players nowadays. If they added the weapon styles as not guaranteed, unique collectible drops or in runeboxes, that could be cool too. And if they chose to sell these packs in the crown store too, that’s fine. It’s not all that difficult to complete the dungeons these are tied to, so it wouldn’t be like monetizing gold, silver, or shadow skins that players are actively pouring blood, sweat, and tears into collecting.

But yeah, tldr: at the very least I’m hoping the head/shoulder styles will be dropped in the dungeons, and I’ll aim to send a number of feedback reports requesting this.

Saturnana

I fully agree.
My heart sank when I heard guildies say they were pulling single pages of motifs from crown crates on the PTS. As a crafter and someone who aspires to unlock all motifs on my main character, I now either have to give up on that ever happening - or cash out on something I don't want to spend real money on. I'm already an ESO+ subscriber and I still buy all DLCs. I even buy crowns when they're on sale. Do I now have to pay even more to be able to continue enjoying what I was already doing?

Wifeaggro13

Turelus wrote: »

So this is part rant, part constructive feedback. You've been warned.

After seeing the showing of the new "boss weapon packs" available in the Crown Store yesterday, I have to ask if there is a game system ZOS' marketing team isn't going monetise as much as possible.

For those not aware of what I am talking about there seems to be packs for sale in the Crown Store which are new items for the Outfit System which change your themed around a boss.
Images courtesy of Alcast.

https://twitter.com/AlcastESO/status/985995846918455296

My gripes with this comes from what could have been an interesting mechanic to bring life back to old content has most likely become another pay to unlock pack (note it's not 100% confirmed these are store only yet).

This isn't the first instance of a new system being done in a way which it can be monetised either, it's not even the only monetisation used for the Outfit System.

List of Monetised Systems.

Housing
Crown only decorations.
Crown Crate only decorations.
Housing slots locked behind subscription.

Transmutation
Additional token slots locked behind subscription.

Outfit System
Outfit slots per character and sold for insane amounts ($14.99 each!)
Crown Store only outfit items (Summerset pre-order, Summerset Crown Store)
Edit: New motif exclusive to Crown Crates and distributed in pages (Thanks to @Carbonised for info later in the thread)

I wouldn't be entirely against the above being in the store if they were better priced ($15 for a single outfit slot usable by a single character!) or something we could still earn in game (Mundus Stones not attainable in game) however it's that sad part of gaming these days where everything is sold for real money rather than being attainable through the gameplay.

Now I understand ZOS is a company, they need to find ways to make money for ESO to continue and that the more money they make means more content and things we love going forwards. But... I can't say seeing the trend above I am really excited for new features which are developed if each one is going to have parts locked behind real money purchases.

I've often made the joke about ESO becoming more like SWTOR and whilst we are far from that this trend of making every new system in a way which it can then be monetised is kind of heading that route.

/endrant

Remember to like, favourite and subscribe. If you have your own thoughts on ZOS monetisation leave a comment in the comments section below!

Truthfully i have little issue with money grabbing on cosmetics. just as long as they are earnable by actually playing the damn game too. unfortunately for my MMO playing i think i am going to stick to smaller niche games that require subscription even if they have cash shops . the corporatization of the MMO genre has actually made them worse not better. sure it spurned a massive leap in technology with bigger funding but it destroyed the heart and soul of games and the community that played them. my biggest concern with this game is its lack of emerging core game systems. its rehashed and regurgitated with new skins. this should not be suprising though ZOS hired the same company to make and manage their cash shop as did EA with SWTOR

heaven13

Yeah, I'm fine with crown stuff that can be obtained elsewhere. If I could earn a mount OR buy it. If I could earn a style OR buy it. People that want to buy it can but those who want to earn it aren't royally ****** because they don't want to spend $40 on one digital reskin. I'm even fine with some stuff being crown store exclusive as long as it's direct purchase.

In hindsight, I laugh at old me who was so annoyed that Frostcaster/Grim was exclusive and style stones were ALSO crown only. I still think it's a crap move but, compared to nowadays crown content, it's only a sidenote.

anitajoneb17_ESO

lnsane wrote: »

As a crafter and someone who aspires to unlock all motifs on my main character, I now either have to give up on that ever happening - or cash out on something I don't want to spend real money on.

I am in the very same situation. Always made a point in being 100% up to date with all motifs on my main character. Proud to be able to craft ANYTHING.
But... I don't find it that heartbreaking to give up on that for a few "crate motifs". Frustrating ? Sure. But not the end of the world, not the end of ESO for me, and certainly NOT a valid reason to buy crates.

Carbonised

heaven13 wrote: »

In hindsight, I laugh at old me who was so annoyed that Frostcaster/Grim was exclusive and style stones were ALSO crown only. I still think it's a crap move but, compared to nowadays crown content, it's only a sidenote.

It's the "cooking frog" analogy. ZOS excels at progressing with more and more hostile monetisation schemes at a slow pace, down the slippery slope. There's nothing huge in new updates, it's always just a little bit more, a little bit more. But in order to really see how far we have progressed, just go 2-3 years back in time, all purchases from crown store were direct, prices were lower, eso+ was optional, not almost mandatory, there were hardly any limited sales, no loot boxes etc etc.

Today we have loot box exclusive motifs sold to us in pieces, gambling exclusive "apex" mounts not buyable with crowns nor gems, and almost everything being either crown crate exclusive or "limited time" 5 day offers.

It's disgusting, and it just keeps getting worse update after update, ZOS has shown no signs of slowing down or even stopping. Every patch they test just how far they can go before the playerbase has had enough, and every update we keep throwing money at them, me included.

heaven13

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

lnsane wrote: »

As a crafter and someone who aspires to unlock all motifs on my main character, I now either have to give up on that ever happening - or cash out on something I don't want to spend real money on.

I am in the very same situation. Always made a point in being 100% up to date with all motifs on my main character. Proud to be able to craft ANYTHING.
But... I don't find it that heartbreaking to give up on that for a few "crate motifs". Frustrating ? Sure. But not the end of the world, not the end of ESO for me, and certainly NOT a valid reason to buy crates.

It's like they keep putting more and more and more in crates to see what that one thing is that will finally entice the holdouts to actually purchase crates.

Sorry to burst your bubble, ZOS. This won't do it for me. I doubt anything you gate behind crates will be something I want enough to gamble for. More likely, I'll get fed up, drop sub, and leave. I've only got so much free time and there are plenty of games I can play.

Turelus

Carbonised wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

In hindsight, I laugh at old me who was so annoyed that Frostcaster/Grim was exclusive and style stones were ALSO crown only. I still think it's a crap move but, compared to nowadays crown content, it's only a sidenote.

It's the "cooking frog" analogy. ZOS excels at progressing with more and more hostile monetisation schemes at a slow pace, down the slippery slope. There's nothing huge in new updates, it's always just a little bit more, a little bit more. But in order to really see how far we have progressed, just go 2-3 years back in time, all purchases from crown store were direct, prices were lower, eso+ was optional, not almost mandatory, there were hardly any limited sales, no loot boxes etc etc.

Today we have loot box exclusive motifs sold to us in pieces, gambling exclusive "apex" mounts not buyable with crowns nor gems, and almost everything being either crown crate exclusive or "limited time" 5 day offers.

It's disgusting, and it just keeps getting worse update after update, ZOS has shown no signs of slowing down or even stopping. Every patch they test just how far they can go before the playerbase has had enough, and every update we keep throwing money at them, me included.

So much truth in this. If you look at how normalised the Crowns have become as well.

If I say to someone 1500 Crowns that sounds like a good deal for something, then you say "that's $15" and people suddenly realise just how bad prices have become.

I am ranting and venting a lot today because this is a huge slap in the face to many of us (the motif pages are really the trigger which set me off) but I am still going to play the game, defend the developers at ZOS as I think they do a good job with the game content, story telling and even the look of these items.

My entire dislike is aimed at the marketing and monetisation side of ZOS. They're doing a great job for making the company money but a terrible job at player relations and community satisfaction. It seems every year they find a new way to spit in our faces and flip us the bird yet... we all keep playing because we enjoy the game for what it is.

Having now seen that log in and out of the game has new advertising for the Crown Store it seems this entire update stinks of marketing fiddling in game design. I said when the daily log in rewards were announced it seemed more like a F2P mobile game than a AAA MMO but the new update really enforces that more than I expected.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

I was super excited to see those weapons when I looked in the outfit collections but was also saddened to see they were in the crown store because I thought ZOS was finally doing something I have been hoping for which was adding boss gear as obtainable outfits. I figured I should have known they would be in the crown store but I will still hold out hope that ZOS will make them obtainable through gameplay.

Seraphayel

Carbonised wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

In hindsight, I laugh at old me who was so annoyed that Frostcaster/Grim was exclusive and style stones were ALSO crown only. I still think it's a crap move but, compared to nowadays crown content, it's only a sidenote.

It's the "cooking frog" analogy. ZOS excels at progressing with more and more hostile monetisation schemes at a slow pace, down the slippery slope. There's nothing huge in new updates, it's always just a little bit more, a little bit more. But in order to really see how far we have progressed, just go 2-3 years back in time, all purchases from crown store were direct, prices were lower, eso+ was optional, not almost mandatory, there were hardly any limited sales, no loot boxes etc etc.

Today we have loot box exclusive motifs sold to us in pieces, gambling exclusive "apex" mounts not buyable with crowns nor gems, and almost everything being either crown crate exclusive or "limited time" 5 day offers.

It's disgusting, and it just keeps getting worse update after update, ZOS has shown no signs of slowing down or even stopping. Every patch they test just how far they can go before the playerbase has had enough, and every update we keep throwing money at them, me included.

QFT. Sad truth.

rune476

The more news i hear of Summerset/The upcoming changes to the game the less i want to play. Honestly depressing as i was getting comfy going about questing and chatting with guildmembers.

Shame no MMO's with good monetisation exists anymore. I used to think 100dkk a month for WoW was overpriced and here i am paying the same for ESO happily.

Crown Crates are a blight on the game, and i would love to see them do away with the scummy business tactics. I will gladly give my money if i am not being forced, but coercing players, slowly grooming them to accept this is sadly commonplace in the market.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Carbonised wrote: »

It's the "cooking frog" analogy. ZOS excels at progressing with more and more hostile monetisation schemes at a slow pace, down the slippery slope. There's nothing huge in new updates, it's always just a little bit more, a little bit more. .../... Every patch they test just how far they can go before the playerbase has had enough, and every update we keep throwing money at them, me included.

I agree that they're taking it a step further every time, in what seems to be a very manipulative and calculated manner.

How about setting your own boundaries and limits ? That way you don't have to follow theirs, nor to adjust to them. I have decided to not buy any crowns beyond those I get with the sub, and as a result whatever happens in the crown store isn't my business and doesn't affect me. I don't have to think or to hesitate.
I'm not saying everyone should be like me, but the fact is, that this position is quite comfortable. And another fact is that if everyone did the same, we would not be facing these questionable monetization strategies at all.

Seraphayel

I just hope lootboxes aka crown crates will get banned by international governments soon.

Turelus

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

It's the "cooking frog" analogy. ZOS excels at progressing with more and more hostile monetisation schemes at a slow pace, down the slippery slope. There's nothing huge in new updates, it's always just a little bit more, a little bit more. .../... Every patch they test just how far they can go before the playerbase has had enough, and every update we keep throwing money at them, me included.

I agree that they're taking it a step further every time, in what seems to be a very manipulative and calculated manner.

How about setting your own boundaries and limits ? That way you don't have to follow theirs, nor to adjust to them. I have decided to not buy any crowns beyond those I get with the sub, and as a result whatever happens in the crown store isn't my business and doesn't affect me. I don't have to think or to hesitate.
I'm not saying everyone should be like me, but the fact is, that this position is quite comfortable. And another fact is that if everyone did the same, we would not be facing these questionable monetization strategies at all.

We do set limits, but the point is when you set a limit you have to stop enjoying some features of the game because others limits are further than yours.

When you have to stop enjoying new motifs or cosmetics because they're deployed in ways which are not consumer friendly we shouldn't telling one another to have their limits but looking at the company and asking why we're being preyed on in such a way (hyperbolic I know but you get what I mean).

Also it's interesting to be in a debate with you where you're on the ZOS defence side and I am on the attack for once.

rhapsodious

Turelus wrote: »

I am ranting and venting a lot today because this is a huge slap in the face to many of us (the motif pages are really the trigger which set me off) but I am still going to play the game, defend the developers at ZOS as I think they do a good job with the game content, story telling and even the look of these items.

My entire dislike is aimed at the marketing and monetisation side of ZOS. They're doing a great job for making the company money but a terrible job at player relations and community satisfaction. It seems every year they find a new way to spit in our faces and flip us the bird yet... we all keep playing because we enjoy the game for what it is.

Having now seen that log in and out of the game has new advertising for the Crown Store it seems this entire update stinks of marketing fiddling in game design. I said when the daily log in rewards were announced it seemed more like a F2P mobile game than a AAA MMO but the new update really enforces that more than I expected.

Yeah, this is primarily my problem. I can tell that the developers who make the content put a lot of love and care into the game world and features, even if it doesn't pan out exactly how they expected or if I disagree with some of their decisions. But marketing feels like they've been becoming more and more predatory, and as someone who usually doesn't have an issue with supporting devs by throwing money in their general direction, it's made me reevaluate my purchasing habits.

Constantly reminding me that the Crown Store exists is going to drive me away from it, not to it. I know it's there. Just please let me log out to swap characters. >_<

Apache_Kid

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

It's the "cooking frog" analogy. ZOS excels at progressing with more and more hostile monetisation schemes at a slow pace, down the slippery slope. There's nothing huge in new updates, it's always just a little bit more, a little bit more. .../... Every patch they test just how far they can go before the playerbase has had enough, and every update we keep throwing money at them, me included.

I agree that they're taking it a step further every time, in what seems to be a very manipulative and calculated manner.

How about setting your own boundaries and limits ? That way you don't have to follow theirs, nor to adjust to them. I have decided to not buy any crowns beyond those I get with the sub, and as a result whatever happens in the crown store isn't my business and doesn't affect me. I don't have to think or to hesitate.
I'm not saying everyone should be like me, but the fact is, that this position is quite comfortable. And another fact is that if everyone did the same, we would not be facing these questionable monetization strategies at all.

I like to be able to collect every motif in the game without having to gamble.

They are making me gamble to complete my collection.

That is wrong.

Whiphid

Carbonised wrote: »

Yes it's on the PTS. The new crates will drop the Maomar motif, which looks pretty dang awesome, but only from crates, and only single pages of the motif. So you're going to have to spend a huge amount of dollars and battle RNG hidden inside RNG if you want the entire motif ...

Just another step down the slippery slope of [snip] business practises that this company is infamous for now.

Lemme take a guess... these pages are purple level rewards?

[Edited for quote]

Sky_WK

If you think its like an F2P mobile game now, wait until you see that daily login reward screen every damn day.

DaveMoeDee

Seraphayel wrote: »

They just want to squeeze out money of every possible aspect of the game.

Do they? I can play as much as I want without spending another cent.

Clearly they are milking cosmetics, but that is such a small part of what the game offers. This was a great game already before there was a crown store.

Stewart1874

ZO$ will kill this game eventually with their money grabbing model. This isn't just necessity, its outright greed.

The games fun enough just now but I'm very annoyed at the lack of mounts I can unlock through effort. One of each basic type of mount should be purchasable with gold (camel, senche, horse, guar, bear) then more cosmetic ones should be unlockable through challenges/grinding and then ridiculous ones like the gummy bear one should be behind a pay wall.

Too much stuff is going behind a paywall and ZO$ are staying quiet on it because they *** know its ***.

Seraphayel

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

They just want to squeeze out money of every possible aspect of the game.

Do they? I can play as much as I want without spending another cent.

Clearly they are milking cosmetics, but that is such a small part of what the game offers. This was a great game already before there was a crown store.

Yes, they do. Every "nice" reward goes straight to the crown store. Tell me, when did we get the last (good looking) mount that we could unlock via a questline or an achievement?

It was a great game because the nice stuff wasn't store exclusive. Now it is. There's barely anything left you can unlock outside of the store.

warabi

mikejezz wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

They just want to squeeze out money of every possible aspect of the game.

I really really really don't like this. Why is the nice stuff Crown Store related? They don't add any new mounts or nice things to the base game that you can unlock or achieve, everything goes straight to the Crown Store. Why even ESO+? It already feels like a F2P game with all the stuff you can buy in the shop. And it won't get any better, it will get worse.

I really don't like this massive monetizing aspect of the game. It's just lame and disappointing for every loyal player.

To be fair regarding mounts, this game nails it better than WoW. There you pay to play and also have to pay for mounts on the store (I know they put a little bit of mounts in each expansion that can be obtained in raids.)

Here you actually can pay for mounts with the monthly crowns you get.

I can't agree with that and it's not entirely true. There are plethora of mounts from WoW that are attainable from achievements and rare drops in-game without spending a single dime. ESO could actually learn a thing or two from that.

Anyway, I pretty much agree with Turelus. I definitely don't mind getting ESO+ and buying things with crowns, but the money grabbing is extremely apparent and the prices of things in the crown store are insane. "$15 for a single outfit slot usable by a single character!" IS ludicrous to me and they don't make it apparent it's only for one character.

I'd actually buy more stuff if the prices weren't so crazy and they'd stop retiring items to put in their gamble crates. As it stands I have to just squirrel away my crowns for their stupid few day exclusive sales since I know it'll be very expensive and I'll likely never see it again (I refuse to get gamble crates).

Katahdin

Whole motif book in crown crates = not thrilled but ok

Single crown crate motif pages = BIG NOPE from me.