Monetisation of New Systems

Aesthier

Spellcrafting should be a new "motif" system for "visual effects" instead of a skill line.

Think about it... exploring overland to find small shrines that provide you the patterns to apply visual effects to each piece of gear if you so choose.


Cyrodil would be filled with every single type and the PvE world could have every single type, that way players could hunt for them all in their own playstyle.

Sounds much better to me than another skill line that may only provide one or two meta-skills.


And keep it "completely" out of the crown store forver.

Jimmy

Eventually ZOS's greed will be the downfall of their own game. They will keep pushing, getting away with more and more, until finally they kill the game. Players quit, ZOS employees quit or get laid off, the spiral downward will be quick. It's the natural cycle of greed. ZOS is in full swing to repeat this cycle. Their greed is strong, very strong. It's clear the business model is becoming less about the game, community, and players... and more about squeezing money out of everything and everyone. ESO's end will come at the greedy hands of its developer.

Esha76

Turelus wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Also, Turelus you forgot to mention that they have now also gone from selling Crown Store exclusive motifs, to Crown Crate exclusive motifs cut up in pieces and sold to us in parts via the gambling system (good luck trying to catch them all!).

?? Would you please explain what you're referring to ? I haven't seen any motif being included in crates... is that new on PTS ?

Yes it's on the PTS. The new crates will drop the Maomar motif, which looks pretty dang awesome, but only from crates, and only single pages of the motif. So you're going to have to spend a huge amount of dollars and battle RNG hidden inside RNG if you want the entire motif ...

Just another step down the slippery slope of [snip] business practises that this company is infamous for now.

W T F . . .
That's pretty damn low. I'm not angry, just very very disappointed.

I noticed that. I didn't believe it... but sure enough, there it is.

This whole practice is atrocious. Losing even more faith in ZOS Leadership. Eventually, at this rate, my wallet will close to them completely.

[Edited for quote]

Tasear

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Most of what @Turelus wrote is both true and well written.

But... I look at it differently.

We're "oldtimers". I don't know ESO's demographics but I bet we're the minority of players by now. It's logical that we see the crown store popping up everywhere we look, because we look at NEW THINGS !
Are new players able to play the game for hours upon hours without stumbling onto the crown store and crown store exclusive items ? I believe so. ESO is still a game where you can safely and completely ignore the crown store. Unlike other F2P or B2P MMOs where you're reminded every two minutes that you cannot keep up unless you sub or spend.
Also, I'd like to emphasize that nothing in the Crown Store is even remotely P2W, and that's a big big point.

Another point is that "reviving interest for old zones" is something that matters to is oldtimers, not to newer players.

And finally, while I agree that every new feature is designed by ZOS with monetization in mind, they're also careful to give us enough to do in the game. There's Crown Store exclusive outfit stuff ? Sure. But there's soooo much we can play with already in the outfit system as it is. There are Crown Store exclusive furniture ? Sure. But there are hundreds and hundreds of very nice craftable furniture we can obtain ingame. There are Crown Store exclusive utilities such as Mundus Stones ? Yes there are. But everyone can use them at a friend's house. Or in the country side, it's not that hard.

TL/DR : yes but we can look at what we have rather than at what we don't have, because there's plenty of it.

XD I am still dreamimg of zone specific leadboards like duels.

Narvuntien

Okay I am still struggling to understand the issue here.
They sell something, you think it costs too much..... you don't buy? right? that's how it works, correct?
Cosmetics are "competitive endgame"... the hell?... what is wrong with you?.. screw your head back on, your perspective is off.

So I am unemployed (currently) so I make the sensible decision not to sub to the game. I completely filled up my inventory and bank playing all day during this anniversary event. I have stacks of duplicate motifs and lots of mats including exotic style materials that aren't going anywhere fast (Both my trade guilds losing their trader this week doesn't help >:( ) Clearly I should complain to ZoS that they keep giving me free stuff to fill up my inventory then after giving me lots of free stuff they extended the event another week..... to fill up my inventory even more.... Now I play inventory management online cutting 15 min out of my game time preventing me from doing dungeons or many other types of content. Being subscribed is therefore pay2win . They have a craft bag and I have to carry all my mats especially the rare and unusual ones. This whole anniversary event is clearly all a conspiracy to force me to sub to their game.... right? right? obviously its all about wringing money out of people that don't have money to spare... by giving them far too much free stuff that they can't possibly deal with all the free stuff.....

This is what you sound like...

its ridiculous

moonio

I think the monetisation model of 'games as a service' is here to stay and there isn't much we can do about it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_as_a_service

But I think it also devalues 'Gaming' to the level of pure vanity and 'ooh look mine is bigger than yours' mentality, which then makes one question as to whether we are playing a game or simply just wanting to look good.

I think a balance must be found, games must reward/elevate people who invest time and effort into becoming good players and bring something new to the game, they raise the bar for us and give us something to aspire to, which is generally what keeps people in the game.

Once those people leave (because their efforts are pointless) all you have is a dead game that is full of glitter..

Rair.Kitani

adriant1978 wrote: »

Greevir wrote: »

You'll be able to buy them with gold. "Gifting Molag Kena Arms Pack for 1.5 million gold!"

At which point someone doesn't get their Kena pack, or doesn't get their gold, since the system has no safeguards in place to support this type of trading. Scammers will love it.

Yes, this is how its going to be. Scamming will take place on a regular basis and ZOS will claim themselfs out of responsibility. On the other hand some "legit" gift sellers (=whales) will make millions.
This has more than a bitter taste to me, actually it's some shady cash shop to gold conversion service based on gray market. I would even prefer ingame crown to gold tradeing via auction house.

Tasear

Narvuntien wrote: »

Okay I am still struggling to understand the issue here.
They sell something, you think it costs too much..... you don't buy? right? that's how it works, correct?
Cosmetics are "competitive endgame"... the hell?... what is wrong with you?.. screw your head back on, your perspective is off.

So I am unemployed (currently) so I make the sensible decision not to sub to the game. I completely filled up my inventory and bank playing all day during this anniversary event. I have stacks of duplicate motifs and lots of mats including exotic style materials that aren't going anywhere fast (Both my trade guilds losing their trader this week doesn't help >:( ) Clearly I should complain to ZoS that they keep giving me free stuff to fill up my inventory then after giving me lots of free stuff they extended the event another week..... to fill up my inventory even more.... Now I play inventory management online cutting 15 min out of my game time preventing me from doing dungeons or many other types of content. Being subscribed is therefore pay2win . They have a craft bag and I have to carry all my mats especially the rare and unusual ones. This whole anniversary event is clearly all a conspiracy to force me to sub to their game.... right? right? obviously its all about wringing money out of people that don't have money to spare... by giving them far too much free stuff that they can't possibly deal with all the free stuff.....

This is what you sound like...

its ridiculous

It's enagament and replayability we are talking about. It not even items just rewards itself.

Turelus

Narvuntien wrote: »

Okay I am still struggling to understand the issue here.
They sell something, you think it costs too much..... you don't buy? right? that's how it works, correct?
Cosmetics are "competitive endgame"... the hell?... what is wrong with you?.. screw your head back on, your perspective is off.

So I am unemployed (currently) so I make the sensible decision not to sub to the game. I completely filled up my inventory and bank playing all day during this anniversary event. I have stacks of duplicate motifs and lots of mats including exotic style materials that aren't going anywhere fast (Both my trade guilds losing their trader this week doesn't help >:( ) Clearly I should complain to ZoS that they keep giving me free stuff to fill up my inventory then after giving me lots of free stuff they extended the event another week..... to fill up my inventory even more.... Now I play inventory management online cutting 15 min out of my game time preventing me from doing dungeons or many other types of content. Being subscribed is therefore pay2win . They have a craft bag and I have to carry all my mats especially the rare and unusual ones. This whole anniversary event is clearly all a conspiracy to force me to sub to their game.... right? right? obviously its all about wringing money out of people that don't have money to spare... by giving them far too much free stuff that they can't possibly deal with all the free stuff.....

This is what you sound like...

its ridiculous

The issue is what could have been something to enhance a new game system and breath life into old content looks to be yet another Crown Store only purchase.

As well as each new system being added to the game to make us enjoy it more, then being turned into a new system of monetisation to exploit.

Also here's to being called ridiculous for not defending ZOS for once, there is a first for everything!

Reaver-Stormhamre

if the money helps pay for development of new content like summerset/morrowind im not TOTALLY against it. as long as the prices reflect the quality of the content.

Peekachu99

We asked for weapon skins, they gave them to us. I don’t see the issue (except the Kena one is missing vfx atm). I’m fine with these being limited time and/ or Crown Store items. Harder content still awards some of the nicest skins in the game.

Turelus

Peekachu99 wrote: »

We asked for weapon skins, they gave them to us. I don’t see the issue (except the Kena one is missing vfx atm). I’m fine with these being limited time and/ or Crown Store items. Harder content still awards some of the nicest skins in the game.

Would you not prefer if they were game rewards however? Something new to go and play old content you may not visit any more for?

Flynch

Things are slowly but surely coming to a head for ZOS, and frankly if they still think that milking players is a healthy long-term strategy, they'll have a rude awakening soon enough. The tide has turned thanks to EA, primarily.

themaddaedra

I couldn't agree with everything said there. I know how supportive and constructive Turelus has been so far. I kind of feel the same for myself, i don't even know how much money i put into this game in total. I just lost the line at some point. And i don't regret one single penny.

But it becomes frustrating to see more and more paygated stuff in each every patch. I don't even know how to truly react to this crown crate bound motif pages. We all know how d*mb this crate system is, it may take hundreds of crates for one single exclusive item, and here we are talking about obtaining 14 different chapters of a motif! So low just incredible.

And crown research scrolls. I hope i'm not the only one who is tired of buying ZoS' general fair playfield argument now. They retain me from deconstructing my golden trial jewellery which i collected by years of raiding, saying it's gonna be unfair for newer players, yet they sell research scrolls via real money, without cooldown. I’m failing to relate this to fairness.

I'm still gonna pay for Summerset, even for some crown store stuff. I don't mind supporting developers at all and i'm grateful for the content they create. I just fear i will lose this temper until the next expansion.

Bringing new players all the time can be good for making faster money, but they should just think about what will happen when every experienced player stops playing and suggesting this game to others, and when news stop coming eventually.

Just my 2 cents.

Edit: typo.

Tasear

Turelus wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

We asked for weapon skins, they gave them to us. I don’t see the issue (except the Kena one is missing vfx atm). I’m fine with these being limited time and/ or Crown Store items. Harder content still awards some of the nicest skins in the game.

Would you not prefer if they were game rewards however? Something new to go and play old content you may not visit any more for?

O.o I more interesting can I look like a clanfear as a polymorph. I might buy into this.

But yes do half and half like falkreath and bloodroot. Oh wait new idea dungeon rewards with these ... have them be in hard to collect parts. Then resell in crown crates for those without time. Similar to current system?

ChuckyPayne

Weapons
I don't like that, really don't like that. That was one the bad things because of I left GW2 no prestige items for gameplay, just in gem store. Here the situation is better, but same way I don't like. I won't left this game now yet. There are more in what I like than not, but I will never buy these items. I pay only for playable contents.

Inventory
I only pay for ESO+ because without it the game is unenjoyable for me (craft, crafting bag, inventory paywall)
With every patch less and less chance to live without ESO+. Jewelcraft now +20 new item.

With gifting system maybe I have lucky and we don't have must buy more crown pack to my wife's account.

Transmutation
Birthday event, lots of transmutation stone, but the cap limit is a joke :S

Juju_beans

Microtransactions is the new business model in gaming and it's been extremely successful.
Zos is a private company so we have no figures but there are some publicly traded game companies with financial reports.
ATVI reported over $7 billion in revenue for 2017 and $4 billion of that was from micro transactions alone.
Ubisoft also reported that micro transactions made up 51% of their earnings for first 2 quarters in 2017.

Micro transactions now make up a significant portion of gaming company revenue which indicates that many players are embracing, not shunning, this new business model.

Turelus

Tasear wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

We asked for weapon skins, they gave them to us. I don’t see the issue (except the Kena one is missing vfx atm). I’m fine with these being limited time and/ or Crown Store items. Harder content still awards some of the nicest skins in the game.

Would you not prefer if they were game rewards however? Something new to go and play old content you may not visit any more for?

O.o I more interesting can I look like a clanfear as a polymorph. I might buy into this.

But yes do half and half like falkreath and bloodroot. Oh wait new idea dungeon rewards with these ... have them be in hard to collect parts. Then resell in crown crates for those without time. Similar to current system?

I wouldn't even care if these were content and store (for those who want to skip the grind), what gets me is we have items which relate to bosses in the game and actually have somewhere to be placed... and they sell them instead.

I would love to be proved wrong and look an idiot who jumped to conclusions but... I don't have any faith that's the case. Sadly when it comes to the Crown Store side of things ZOS has constantly proved the worst of our fears correct.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Turelus wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

We asked for weapon skins, they gave them to us. I don’t see the issue (except the Kena one is missing vfx atm). I’m fine with these being limited time and/ or Crown Store items. Harder content still awards some of the nicest skins in the game.

Would you not prefer if they were game rewards however? Something new to go and play old content you may not visit any more for?

The question isn't aimed at me but i'll answer it for myself since it's a very relevant question.

I am one of those who spend very little money on the game. I bought the base game, I sub, I buy chapters, the end. Whatever crowns I spend come from the sub.
OK, there are people who spend less (no sub, base game only, whatever) but I still consider myself as a little-paying-consumer. Even if it makes quite a bit of money at the end of the year, it's still a very cheap hobby related to the hours of fun provided.

Now in order to remain competitive (and that means, remaining competitive for investors, not only covering the development costs) ZOS needs to make more money than people like me are ready to spend. Therefore they need crown store and crown crate buyers. As a result, as much as I would like ALL new content (game AND cosmetics) to be accessible to me, I understand that it must be shared between the two types of players, and I accept that. As long as I still have fun stuff to do in the game (and I have, even after 4 years) I'm fine.

Geroken777

I think there is no question that everybody hates the sales manager... It is getting greedy indeed. I think ZOS should learn from the mistakes that EA has made, because it is definitely following the same path. Only future will tell, but I think the end is near if it continues like this.

Peekachu99

Turelus wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

We asked for weapon skins, they gave them to us. I don’t see the issue (except the Kena one is missing vfx atm). I’m fine with these being limited time and/ or Crown Store items. Harder content still awards some of the nicest skins in the game.

Would you not prefer if they were game rewards however? Something new to go and play old content you may not visit any more for?

No, completely cosmetic items not associated with a feat of strength (like Vet Trials, for example), are perfectly fine to put in the cash shop. I’m not 15 anymore and while I’ve devoted thousands of house to clearing the hardest content in offer, I enjoy items of convenience on occasion. What would the alternative be? Tying these to standard speed/ no death achievements? Those are laughable in anything that isn’t DLC and most of us have done those by now.

There’s still loads of exclusive stuff for us all to enjoy that requires game completion. Store needs stuff that entices activity too.

generalmyrick

dont feed the beast and this wont happen.

buy stuff when they do it right--their data will identify that.

Prof_Bawbag

They squeeze because we as gamers actively encourage them to bend us over a barrel. Some justify every cash grab conceivable, whilst others see it for what it is. We get told no one is forcing anyone to purchase anything and that people who buy into this aren't having a detrimental effect on anyone else. Well, yeah, they are. The more people buy into every single cash grab, the more content eventually gets taken away from the rest of us who aren't willing to be bend over a barrel and point the finger at our fellow consumers rather than the large faceless corps who implement the monetisation of almost every new feature we now get.

ErilAq

I don't mind cosmetics in the crown store, I get they need to make their dosh. But I wish they would incorporate more cosmetics and fluff items into the game via achievements, rare drops, etc. It's better for the longevity of the game.

Huyen

Most people agree that it was a bad move to skip paid subs like WoW has. I for one am suprised (and happy) eso managed to survive where games like wildstar have failed.

SGT_Wolfe101st

Reaver-Stormhamre wrote: »

if the money helps pay for development of new content like summerset/morrowind im not TOTALLY against it. as long as the prices reflect the quality of the content.

But we pay for Summerset and Morrowind??? It's not like the Crown $tore finances the game and we get updates for free. Everything cost money in this game. ESO+ for craft bag, DLC, double housing, Chapters that aren't DLC expect next year when they are, Must have Summerset to craft Jewelry, Crown $tore exclusive houses, mounts, furniture, etc., etc., etc. We are funding them to produce content to fund more funding. If the servers were able to stay up and running 2 years ago when the Crown $tore had 5 items, well they have enough revenue to run it now. This is a marketing and profit game now. Want cool new feature, that's $30, want to get a cool new mount, that's $30-500, want that cool house, that's $100. This idea that the Crown $tore funds future updates is absurd, it simply isn't the case, it can't be, we pay for everything.

anitajoneb17_ESO

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

We are funding them to produce content to fund more funding.

Yep, that's what companies are for.
Make the combination of money+work produce more money, which in turn combined with work will produce more money, etc.
Nothing wrong with that, as long as work is rewarded properly.

Turelus

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

We are funding them to produce content to fund more funding.

Yep, that's what companies are for.
Make the combination of money+work produce more money, which in turn combined with work will produce more money, etc.
Nothing wrong with that, as long as work is rewarded properly.

If it was that simple most of us wouldn't be complaining. However it's the continued use and increasingly disrespectful ways in which this is done.

ZOS the development side is a company many love and enjoy the content they produce. ZOS the marketing side has increasingly moved more and more system to make money at the expense of player satisfaction.

SGT_Wolfe101st

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

We are funding them to produce content to fund more funding.

Yep, that's what companies are for.
Make the combination of money+work produce more money, which in turn combined with work will produce more money, etc.
Nothing wrong with that, as long as work is rewarded properly.

You didn't understand my post then, you pay to fund a thing. Dollars to provide a thing. In this case we fund them to create another thing to fund. Sure, we get the "privilege" to play but they aren't producing a tangible good. They don't have to mine or grow their end item. Once the content is created it exists. They aren't shipping anything (for the most part, digital sales are the largest medium for content), they aren't making widgets, car companies for example, make an end item, they need revenue to buy more components to make more cars, due to the economy of scale, they buy lower than I can and their margin is based on the buy vs sale price, this is their profit. I don't continue to pay GM for the use of my car. In this case the pixels aren't minded or bought. They pay their employees, they pay the upkeep on the servers and the network and that's basically it. To say the Crown $tore is necessary is crazy, the amount in vs out is way out of scale. Not saying they don't need to turn a profit, not saying they don't deserve to make money, but to constantly put everything new and cool behind a pay wall and claim it is needed for the health of the game is crazy.

Apache_Kid

Carbonised wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Also, Turelus you forgot to mention that they have now also gone from selling Crown Store exclusive motifs, to Crown Crate exclusive motifs cut up in pieces and sold to us in parts via the gambling system (good luck trying to catch them all!).

?? Would you please explain what you're referring to ? I haven't seen any motif being included in crates... is that new on PTS ?

Yes it's on the PTS. The new crates will drop the Maomar motif, which looks pretty dang awesome, but only from crates, and only single pages of the motif. So you're going to have to spend a huge amount of dollars and battle RNG hidden inside RNG if you want the entire motif ...

Just another step down the slippery slope of [snip] business practises that this company is infamous for now.

Are you ******* kidding me

[Edited for quote]