Damn It, ZOS! Again With This HM Crap!?

Fallewarrior

Yea lets hand out skins out to everyone and his mom.
This game is already so casual orientated might as well do that right!?!!!

I like that you say that you don't care about any other opinions, shows how short sighted you are.
It's a good thing they wont change this, so you can open a few more qq threads about it.

drake88131

Fallewarrior wrote: »

Yea lets hand out skins out to everyone and his mom.
This game is already so casual orientated might as well do that right!?!!!

I like that you say that you don't care about any other opinions, shows how short sighted you are.
It's a good thing they wont change this, so you can open a few more qq threads about it.

Lol "hand out"??? More like sell!!!

Ch4mpTW

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

You once again locked a trial skin behind a hard mode clear. Why? Why tf do you keep doing this? As is only a tiny fraction of your player base can beat VAS HM+2, which results in people selling skin runs. Something which ultimately should not exist in a game to begin with. And even after we told you about how we found this practice unhealthy to the game, you go and do it again!?

Do you NOT have the data which shows how many can legitimately beat VAS+2 across all platforms? Why not give the skin to people who can beat it on veteran, like VMoL? Why this HM bs? Why!?

And before all of the Top 1% come scrambling in to defend this crap, no. I don’t care what you have to say. More than the 1% of the PvE player base wants to be rewarded handsomely for dreading through these meat shield bosses, with cheesy mechanics and obnoxiously high HP. Smfh. Not everyone wants to pay someone for a skin clear (I’ve yet to pay for a carry, and never will). How as a developer do you even sit back comfortably with that? Do you not even see just how much the trial side of PvE is dying? And across all platforms? Or again, do you just not care?

inb4 this thread gets locked for some vague reason, and I get yet another message and or email how I broke some obscure rule that was up to mods discretion.

I like it. Its a git gud or don't situation and keeps the skin unique and out of the hands of most pugs and casual players or people who aren't invested in trials. Now if only they'd make it impossible to carry people....

It’s a git gud or don’t situation, that you need to climb a political system and make the “right connections” to get a skin? Because let’s keep it real, the vast majority can’t complete the content. Even top players. It’s literally the same 1% of the player base patch after patch that goes about obtaining these completes, and that’s it. Dromathra Destroyers, VHOF completionists, Flawless Conquerors, etc. can’t complete it, etc. And because the 1% can, and then go around offering skin runs and charging everyone else makes this a “git gud” situation? Do you know how ignorant and silly you sound right now?

Tell you what. Tell the 1% or any and every 1 of the people parroting that “git gud” nonsense to come play Nioh or Dark Souls 3. Tell them to play Bloodbourne, and Ninja Gaiden. Tell them to come join me in playing classic Mega Man games, and obtaining ALL gems and relics in Crash Brandicoot games.

You want to talk about skill? Really? In a game like ESO, where success ENTIRELY based upon: How well you can animation cancel (if you can even in the 1st place), who you know, and or how much gold you have? Are you serious? Come walk with me into the world of the fighting game community, and step up to the plate in some Tekken or Smash Bros. I’m not even asking you dive face first into Melee either. You’re free to enter into Wii U., and go competitive. Even better. Want to keep it in the realm of MMO’s? Play Tera or WoW, and get involved in the end-game scene. And oh have the audacity to hint at skill in ESO? Absolutely incredible.

TequilaFire

They don't get it, having skill to do the HM means nothing when I can just buy a carry for the skins.
Or maybe it hits too close to their profits.

MakoFore

"why cant we all get championship rings and trophies!!" - is what ur basically saying. skins are the ultimate prize of endgame. there are other skins that you can buy from crown store ,etc. skins are a mark of pride and achivement in the game- *** yeah its exclusive- and *** yeah i like it that way.
i think the compromise is that they introduce levels of skins- so clearing a vet will reward a skin, HM will give a more detailed skin in a more particular style, etc.

Vaoh

For those of you bashing Cloudrest because you're angry abut this, I highly recommend you actually try the new trial. It honestly looks very cool and has interesting mechanics. I'm extremely excited to one day play it on console!

I agree about rewards being pathetic.... not specifically that the skins should be Veteran mode rewards, but rather that rewards are currently bs and need change. If we look at vAS, you essentially get nothing for beating regular Veteran difficulty. There should be legitimate rewards for both Veteran AND Veteran HM, and I'm not talking about those dumb "perfected" sets either which anyone can get from weeklies.

I've cleared vAS HM over 10 times now (more around 15) and have yet to get a single polymorph runebox drop. Even someone like me who is part of that tiny minority capable of beating vAS HM does not have any guarantee of getting the polymorph. Its unbelievably frustrating.

My suggestion:
- Veteran clear earns you a skin, like 1% chance to earn a polymorph runebox drop
- Veteran HM clear earns you a *different* skin (maybe same as Veteran but slightly altered), guaranteed polymorph runebox drop

Everyone can earn what they want. Everyone can get the rewards. HM just alters the already existing Veteran mode skin to distinguish you, and allows you to actually get a runebox for your efforts - everyone wins.

My reasoning is this: If you can't beat *regular* Veteran difficulty then you're just complaining and truly don't yet deserve the trial skin. However, a HM complete is something entirely different. If the trial is properly built, mechanics can be set in place to where you truly need 12ppl participating fully to get a HM complete...... meaning no possible carries. All in all, players can earn skins from regular vet completes, as well as rare runeboxes, while HM raiders can still feel like they didn't have their rewards taken away from them by offering them the same rewards with very slight changes. Sorta like the current imperfect vs perfect weapon idea, but only cosmetically through the use of skins.

Anyways thats just me. Maw of Lorkhaj/Halls of Fabrication should set the standard for Regular Vet rewards, while Asylum Sanctorum should set the standard for HM rewards (minus the disgusting rng). Everyone wins and if the trial is designed correctly, no carries would be possible.

Ch4mpTW

Anrose wrote: »

When they were showing off the trial at Pax, pretty sure Finn, you know the the guy who made the trial, said “git gud”

@Anrose Finn said that? As in @ZOS_Finn guy? That Finn? I highly doubt a dev would dare say something so arrogant and bold, as I’m assuming ZOS devs are more professional than that. I’m also trusting they wouldn’t even hint at saying something like that.

And if they were so cocky? I’d say the same thing to them. Yes. I’d even ask 1 of the devs, to come play a game that truly demands skill or come step into the ring of an actual e-sport game or game which has a tournament circuit. I’d pay big bucks for a ZOS to come step-up to the plate. If I can blow a couple of hundreds on 1 of their in-game houses, I could care less about blowing a few hundreds in a money match against a ZOS dev in some: Overwatch, Tekken, Smash, Gran Turismo, Dark Souls, Nioh, or Bloodbourne. Any game that actually takes skill, and has a multiplayer aspect to it. Couple hundred is peanuts. But again, I STRONGLY doubt Finn would say something so bold.

AlnilamE

Mazbt wrote: »

What they can do is put the skin requirement as a non HM clear, and add some super rare (like 1% or less) items (for Non HM) that will be guaranteed if you beat it on Hard mode. I would really like to see a trial do something like this.

MajesticHaruki wrote: »

Why can't they give the skin upon completion of the veteran mode like in vMoL? It's absurd cause most of the players don't ever get the chance to acquire these skins.

Why a vet clear and not a normal one? What percentage of the ESO population can clear a vet trial? What about those who can't?

Nelson_Rebel

I dont like it either.


But thats why I've reconciled myself to just buying skins from the crown store. Since the newest ones are just locked behind elitistism


In the end its just comsmetic crap. And they'll eventually sell re-skinned items that will look similar to them anyway, its bound to happen. The new skins being sold appear to be far more appealing anyways. So As long as they keep ecluding playerbases from this content, we'll keep buying similar items.


In the end I win regardless lol

Valve

Man, if all the new skins dropped from the non-HMs, they would be waaaaaaaaay too easy to get.

The trial skins reward those capable of doing the content; if you don't want to put in time to find a solid group to run with, that's on you.

I may have all the trial skins but wouldn't even use any if I could hide vamp another way.

Anyway, it's fine how it is -- either get good or stop complaining.

Vaoh

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Anrose wrote: »

When they were showing off the trial at Pax, pretty sure Finn, you know the the guy who made the trial, said “git gud”

Anrose Finn said that? As in ZOS_Finn guy? That Finn? I highly doubt a dev would dare say something so arrogant and bold, as I’m assuming ZOS devs are more professional than that. I’m also trusting they wouldn’t even hint at saying something like that.

And if they were so cocky? I’d say the same thing to them. Yes. I’d even ask 1 of the devs, to come play a game that truly demands skill or come step into the ring of an actual e-sport game or game which has a tournament circuit. I’d pay big bucks for a ZOS to come step-up to the plate. If I can blow a couple of hundreds on 1 of their in-game houses, I could care less about blowing a few hundreds in a money match against a ZOS dev in some: Overwatch, Tekken, Smash, Gran Turismo, Dark Souls, Nioh, or Bloodbourne. Any game that actually takes skill, and has a multiplayer aspect to it. Couple hundred is peanuts. But again, I STRONGLY doubt Finn would say something so bold.

He did say that, but it was appropriate to say it and not directed toward loot lol.

Basically they were talking about how difficult the new HM in particular was going to be, and said to "git gud" cause they're not just gonna nerf it for people. Which.... makes sense. If people want to be HM it will take a lot of "getting gud". HM is only cleared by a small handful of people because it takes a ton of time and effort to beat HM trials (mainly vMoL/vHoF/vAS). I just really hope there are mechanics that require 12 people in Cloudrest so HM carries aren't possible.

Greevir

I think they should stop selling skins in the crown store. Only elitist whales have access to that stuff. Everyone should be able to get whatever they want!

FloppyTouch

I don't do trials hm or vet have done a few craglorn vet but not bc they are hard but long boring getting 12 players that know what to do and that can listen is not worth the headache. I think a lot of people agree with that statement.


With that said I don't care about skins you have to give something to these end game pvers bc they don't have alliance rank to walk around with so they get the stupid skin. Let the 100 or so players feel special.

Ch4mpTW

Vaoh wrote: »

For those of you bashing Cloudrest because you're angry abut this, I highly recommend you actually try the new trial. It honestly looks very cool and has interesting mechanics. I'm extremely excited to one day play it on console!

I agree about rewards being pathetic.... not specifically that the skins should be Veteran mode rewards, but rather that rewards are currently bs and need change. If we look at vAS, you essentially get nothing for beating regular Veteran difficulty. There should be legitimate rewards for both Veteran AND Veteran HM, and I'm not talking about those dumb "perfected" sets either which anyone can get from weeklies.

I've cleared vAS HM over 10 times now (more around 15) and have yet to get a single polymorph runebox drop. Even someone like me who is part of that tiny minority capable of beating vAS HM does not have any guarantee of getting the polymorph. Its unbelievably frustrating.

My suggestion:
- Veteran clear earns you a skin, like 1% chance to earn a polymorph runebox drop
- Veteran HM clear earns you a *different* skin (maybe same as Veteran but slightly altered), guaranteed polymorph runebox drop

Everyone can earn what they want. Everyone can get the rewards. HM just alters the already existing Veteran mode skin to distinguish you, and allows you to actually get a runebox for your efforts - everyone wins.

My reasoning is this: If you can't beat *regular* Veteran difficulty then you're just complaining and truly don't yet deserve the trial skin. However, a HM complete is something entirely different. If the trial is properly built, mechanics can be set in place to where you truly need 12ppl participating fully to get a HM complete...... meaning no possible carries. All in all, players can earn skins from regular vet completes, as well as rare runeboxes, while HM raiders can still feel like they didn't have their rewards taken away from them by offering them the same rewards with very slight changes. Sorta like the current imperfect vs perfect weapon idea, but only cosmetically through the use of skins.

Anyways thats just me. Maw of Lorkhaj/Halls of Fabrication should set the standard for Regular Vet rewards, while Asylum Sanctorum should set the standard for HM rewards (minus the disgusting rng). Everyone wins and if the trial is designed correctly, no carries would be possible.

@Vaoh I’d be perfectly fine with this. Honestly. I would. Because then, it’s a situation where everyone prospers. And! It’s a system in place where again, there’s an incentive to work towards something. Which yet again, I am perfectly fine with (so long as it’s worth the effort AND reasonable).

I mean, I’ll put it like this. In 1 of my guilds, there are a total of 5 Dromathra Deatroyers. M’Kay? 5. They also are Flawless Conquerors, and also have beaten every trial on veteran (except for 2 of them which haven’t beaten VHoF yet). Okay? Now check this out. All 5 of them, still have yet to beaten VASHM (+2). Why? Because they lack the political ties to connect with the 1% on PS4-NA, and all 5 of them hate the people within those guilds strongly (which I can understand, but that’s a topic for another day). So because of this, they’re essentially wasted talent just going by and day by day playing less and less on ESO. Pretty much only logging in to do writs, duel, and joke around in guild chat. That’s it. 5 completely able individuals, just literally wasting away. And for once, it isn’t their fault. How is that right?

Now mind you, these guys have been playing Tera a lot with me and they too purchased Founder Packs. Why? Because they feel that Tera is worth more of the investment than ESO. And that is exactly what this thread is aimed at. Ridiculous demands for things, and in turn causing completely able and skilled people to turn around and look elsewhere for places to spend their time. And I don’t blame them. Like I said, I even join them in Tera. And it doesn’t have to be this way, but ZOS clearly wants it to be. ZOS is literally poisoning the end-game PvE scene with this type of “HM only” nonsense. And it’s no good, bro. It isn’t.

DanteYoda

Anrose wrote: »

When they were showing off the trial at Pax, pretty sure Finn, you know the the guy who made the trial, said “git gud”

Which really shows the level of stupidity it takes to be a Zos developer doesn't it..

If he really said that.. He should stick to coding and not talk..

l.ys

The fact of the matter is, there is no other motivation to do the hardmodes otherwise, without some kind of fun reward at the end. The skin offers a visible show of your accomplishments, or of your money. Either way, it is time invested in this game. I worked my ass off to get all my hardmodes thus far on my healer and dd toons, and god help me if they are going to dumb things down for people. There are some things in the world that people have to actually work for, sorry to break it to you

Ch4mpTW

Vaoh wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Anrose wrote: »

When they were showing off the trial at Pax, pretty sure Finn, you know the the guy who made the trial, said “git gud”

Anrose Finn said that? As in ZOS_Finn guy? That Finn? I highly doubt a dev would dare say something so arrogant and bold, as I’m assuming ZOS devs are more professional than that. I’m also trusting they wouldn’t even hint at saying something like that.

And if they were so cocky? I’d say the same thing to them. Yes. I’d even ask 1 of the devs, to come play a game that truly demands skill or come step into the ring of an actual e-sport game or game which has a tournament circuit. I’d pay big bucks for a ZOS to come step-up to the plate. If I can blow a couple of hundreds on 1 of their in-game houses, I could care less about blowing a few hundreds in a money match against a ZOS dev in some: Overwatch, Tekken, Smash, Gran Turismo, Dark Souls, Nioh, or Bloodbourne. Any game that actually takes skill, and has a multiplayer aspect to it. Couple hundred is peanuts. But again, I STRONGLY doubt Finn would say something so bold.

He did say that, but it was appropriate to say it and not directed toward loot lol.

Basically they were talking about how difficult the new HM in particular was going to be, and said to "git gud" cause they're not just gonna nerf it for people. Which.... makes sense. If people want to be HM it will take a lot of "getting gud". HM is only cleared by a small handful of people because it takes a ton of time and effort to beat HM trials (mainly vMoL/vHoF/vAS). I just really hope there are mechanics that require 12 people in Cloudrest so HM carries aren't possible.

@Vaoh LOL! Oh he’s wilding. Lmao! A dev actually came out of pocket, and had the balls to say that? Oh man, I gotta see this dude in action in some truly skill-requiring games.

Vaoh

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

For those of you bashing Cloudrest because you're angry abut this, I highly recommend you actually try the new trial. It honestly looks very cool and has interesting mechanics. I'm extremely excited to one day play it on console!

I agree about rewards being pathetic.... not specifically that the skins should be Veteran mode rewards, but rather that rewards are currently bs and need change. If we look at vAS, you essentially get nothing for beating regular Veteran difficulty. There should be legitimate rewards for both Veteran AND Veteran HM, and I'm not talking about those dumb "perfected" sets either which anyone can get from weeklies.

I've cleared vAS HM over 10 times now (more around 15) and have yet to get a single polymorph runebox drop. Even someone like me who is part of that tiny minority capable of beating vAS HM does not have any guarantee of getting the polymorph. Its unbelievably frustrating.

My suggestion:
- Veteran clear earns you a skin, like 1% chance to earn a polymorph runebox drop
- Veteran HM clear earns you a *different* skin (maybe same as Veteran but slightly altered), guaranteed polymorph runebox drop

Everyone can earn what they want. Everyone can get the rewards. HM just alters the already existing Veteran mode skin to distinguish you, and allows you to actually get a runebox for your efforts - everyone wins.

My reasoning is this: If you can't beat *regular* Veteran difficulty then you're just complaining and truly don't yet deserve the trial skin. However, a HM complete is something entirely different. If the trial is properly built, mechanics can be set in place to where you truly need 12ppl participating fully to get a HM complete...... meaning no possible carries. All in all, players can earn skins from regular vet completes, as well as rare runeboxes, while HM raiders can still feel like they didn't have their rewards taken away from them by offering them the same rewards with very slight changes. Sorta like the current imperfect vs perfect weapon idea, but only cosmetically through the use of skins.

Anyways thats just me. Maw of Lorkhaj/Halls of Fabrication should set the standard for Regular Vet rewards, while Asylum Sanctorum should set the standard for HM rewards (minus the disgusting rng). Everyone wins and if the trial is designed correctly, no carries would be possible.

@Vaoh I’d be perfectly fine with this. Honestly. I would. Because then, it’s a situation where everyone prospers. And! It’s a system in place where again, there’s an incentive to work towards something. Which yet again, I am perfectly fine with (so long as it’s worth the effort AND reasonable).

I mean, I’ll put it like this. In 1 of my guilds, there are a total of 5 Dromathra Deatroyers. M’Kay? 5. They also are Flawless Conquerors, and also have beaten every trial on veteran (except for 2 of them which haven’t beaten VHoF yet). Okay? Now check this out. All 5 of them, still have yet to beaten VASHM (+2). Why? Because they lack the political ties to connect with the 1% on PS4-NA, and all 5 of them hate the people within those guilds strongly (which I can understand, but that’s a topic for another day). So because of this, they’re essentially wasted talent just going by and day by day playing less and less on ESO. Pretty much only logging in to do writs, duel, and joke around in guild chat. That’s it. 5 completely able individuals, just literally wasting away. And for once, it isn’t their fault. How is that right?

Now mind you, these guys have been playing Tera a lot with me and they too purchased Founder Packs. Why? Because they feel that Tera is worth more of the investment than ESO. And that is exactly what this thread is aimed at. Ridiculous demands for things, and in turn causing completely able and skilled people to turn around and look elsewhere for places to spend their time. And I don’t blame them. Like I said, I even join them in Tera. And it doesn’t have to be this way, but ZOS clearly wants it to be. ZOS is literally poisoning the end-game PvE scene with this type of “HM only” nonsense. And it’s no good, bro. It isn’t.

Ehh I don't know about Tera.

I had a friend recommend Tera when it was in Beta but I just couldn't get into it. Not my type of game, though I'm glad you like it!

I may do a bunch of fancy hardcore content in ESO, but my favorite thing is still just rping and playing the game of TES lore

As for those poeple (whom I probably know or have heard of), I really don't blame them. However more guilds are starting to clear vAS HM recently. It's a much more daunting progression imo than vMoL HM was. Once you finally make progress though you essentially go from wiping at 70-75% health to wiping in execute phase.... until you finally compete. And obviously you just need one complete to get that skin.

I say it like its easy and believe me, I know it's not.

I would have been content for the Sanctified Silver to stay a HM reward, and maybe have "Consecrated Silver" as a regular Veteran reward - maybe it's a slightly less shiny silver but with the eyes also covered in silver, and no blue glow. That way everyone "has the skin" but for completing on HM you get a slightly fancier version.

Waffennacht

vMA should have a skin. That way solo players can have a skin.

I don't have a skin.

I also don't know 11 other players willing/capable of doing vet trials.

I had a hard enough time getting a group through vet scalecaller - I can't imagine doing that on HM.

Greevir

Whines because he lacks the skill to get HM clears, then tells devs to play a "skilled" game. Classic.

DanteYoda

Fallewarrior wrote: »

Yea lets hand out skins out to everyone and his mom.
This game is already so casual orientated might as well do that right!?!!!

I like that you say that you don't care about any other opinions, shows how short sighted you are.
It's a good thing they wont change this, so you can open a few more qq threads about it.

Its a game man designed for enjoyment, it should not be designed as an ego inflation tool.. You want that buy crowns...

Anotherone773

kikkehs wrote: »

to keep it special ?

No one wants to keep radiant apex mounts special, why keep skins special?

Ch4mpTW

Greevir wrote: »

Whines because he lacks the skill to get HM clears, then tells devs to play a "skilled" game. Classic.

Lacks the skill to get HM clears? Beat every veteran HM, but VHoFHM and VASHM. Flawless Conqueror’d all my toons as well.

@Greevir Matter of a fact, lacks the skill in ESO? ESO takes skill? Nioh wants to Netflix and chill with you. Ninja Gaiden wants to get pizza, and Devil May Cry wants to go shopping.

Greevir

Greevir wrote: »

Whines because he lacks the skill to get HM clears, then tells devs to play a "skilled" game. Classic.

Lacks the skill to get HM clears? Beat every veteran HM, but VHoFHM and VASHM. Flawless Conqueror’d all my toons as well.

@Greevir Matter of a fact, lacks the skill in ESO? ESO takes skill? Nioh wants to Netflix and chill with you. Ninja Gaiden wants to get pizza, and Devil May Cry wants to go shopping.

My google translate isn't working correctly. What are you saying?

Greevir

If ESO truly lacked skill, wouldn't everyone have everything in the game?

Waffennacht

I dunno man. I've never played a solo game as hard as ESO since those OG Nintendo games. (Like predator vs aliens)

The thing about ESO ... I dunno... Getting through scalecaller with PuGs must've scarred me

Azyle1

People are not leaving ESO in waves.. do not spread that info.

ESO is very healthy and it's PVE is no better or worse than other MMO's. (Also never say people are leaving for Tera... Tera is garbage).

There are things I'd like to see change, but ESO isn't anymore or less toxic than any other online gaming community out there. Actually, it's likely less, but still.

Nelson_Rebel

l.ys wrote: »

The fact of the matter is, there is no other motivation to do the hardmodes otherwise, without some kind of fun reward at the end. The skin offers a visible show of your accomplishments, or of your money. Either way, it is time invested in this game. I worked my ass off to get all my hardmodes thus far on my healer and dd toons, and god help me if they are going to dumb things down for people. There are some things in the world that people have to actually work for, sorry to break it to you

And as long as they keep doing that more people who arent the 1% will get better and better skins from the store

You dont get to have your cake and eat it too.

Your choice lol either way we win, and frankly I could care less. They'll sell all your "let me feel special" items in better format in a month or less

Ch4mpTW

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

l.ys wrote: »

The fact of the matter is, there is no other motivation to do the hardmodes otherwise, without some kind of fun reward at the end. The skin offers a visible show of your accomplishments, or of your money. Either way, it is time invested in this game. I worked my ass off to get all my hardmodes thus far on my healer and dd toons, and god help me if they are going to dumb things down for people. There are some things in the world that people have to actually work for, sorry to break it to you

And as long as they keep doing that more people who arent the 1% will get better and better skins from the store

You dont get to have your cake and eat it too.

Your choice lol either way we win, and frankly I could care less. They'll sell all your "let me feel special" items in better format in a month or less

@Nelson_Rebel Damn, bruh. I see you too have switched-up too regarding PvE. Good memories I have of seeing you around Auridon, and having those excellent duels with you. Anytime you need a boost or plug in: GTA Online, Tera, or Overwatch hit me up. You’re on my friend’s list, and I got you bro. Whatever you need.

zyk

Greevir wrote: »

My google translate isn't working correctly. What are you saying?

He's comparing action games considered to be difficult to an mmo.. it's apples and oranges, but I think what he's basically saying is, "I can't complete all HM content in ESO, but these games that I have completed require more skill..."