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Power of the light/Purifying light should only stack your own damage
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Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
The more people you face the worse it get and the more people you have fighting with you it gets so mich better.
I want this changed into this: -x^2/16+1
Not sure if serious or trolling. Worst balance suggestion I have ever seen on the forum. Have you even done the math or are you pulling that out of thin air? And I'm sure the servers need to compute more floating point when they are already slow. Guess we will have extreme lag when enough lights are placed, right?
Look at the graph of exp(x) and -x^2/16 +1 with the x and y axis i described in my post.
There's not much math involved in this also it has nothing to do with the server because that's just the skill performance vs different amounts of enemies and that can be done for every skill in this game.
Here's my problem: you want them to add a feature to a skill that a minority of players even whine about in a way that will only be useful if you're facing idiots doing bow light attacks. If it's added to backlash, there is no reason any other skill shouldn't receive similar scaling. If they do that, I guarantee it will result in more lag because I'm certain the server calculates damage and it will result in more floating point calculations. I know for sure I will start using my templar again just to cause lag by spamming light on entire zergs
But yeah, dismiss that so you can pretend you are going to live longer under backlash, even though all the other skills will still kill you just as fast in Xv1 OR alternatively, the skill wont be used and will be replaced with a CC on their bar (better choice 99.999% of the time anyway). Even if not, they will move to the next "Xv1 tool" which is every damage skill in the game.
I'm not going to even lie, I have less problems with backlash deaths than any other skill in the game that has a CC or interrupt attached. I'm dead serious about that statement, and this is on ANY class I play. I routinely encounter zergs and groups of people all the time in Cyrodil and backlash is the LAST of my worries. The fact that you don't talk about interrupt spam, you don't talk about purifying, and talk about LoS means that you're likely a stam build...Let me take a magic guess, stam NB? If so, keep the jokes coming about what's balanced and what's not.0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭you do something wrong, when you call it "burst", since its not. it needs 6 seconds to charge up, so you have plenty of the anticipating and prepare. if you are low health and you see backlash nearly going off, then you did something wrong, because everyone knows this stupid pillar of light is dangerous. similar to meteor, everyone who doesnt block it either is not experienced or has extreme lags. but experienced players like you should be aware of the fact, that you are dead when low health with a backlash running out. you should have prepared, healed up before hand. same with curse, simply because its there dont mean, you cant do anything.
you have whole 6 seconds, shield up and it will barely take off your shield, heal up so you survive and cast rally just after it, so you wont get executed, go mistform and the skill scratches for 2k like an obilvion enchant. its ridiculous, otherwise you should think about skills like unstable core or the distant detonation morph too.
Deals burst damage. Not burst because it has a time. Is merciless not burst, or is shalk not burst?
HMMMM....MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭thats why i wrote it in "....", so everyone will understand what i mean. you have an eternity to prepare for its impact, like course, like meteor, even like shalks. its a l2p issue, since you can prepare for it.0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭you do something wrong, when you call it "burst", since its not. it needs 6 seconds to charge up, so you have plenty of the anticipating and prepare. if you are low health and you see backlash nearly going off, then you did something wrong, because everyone knows this stupid pillar of light is dangerous. similar to meteor, everyone who doesnt block it either is not experienced or has extreme lags. but experienced players like you should be aware of the fact, that you are dead when low health with a backlash running out. you should have prepared, healed up before hand. same with curse, simply because its there dont mean, you cant do anything.
you have whole 6 seconds, shield up and it will barely take off your shield, heal up so you survive and cast rally just after it, so you wont get executed, go mistform and the skill scratches for 2k like an obilvion enchant. its ridiculous, otherwise you should think about skills like unstable core or the distant detonation morph too.
it deals all it's charged damage in one gcd = burst
it deals damage over a period of time = dot =/= burst
i don't have an issue with PotL in General or how it deals damage (percentage of the damage you eat before) i have issues with the fact that it uses all incoming damage and not the damage of the caster alone which makes the skill good in 1v1 but flat out broken in Xv1 because it punishes you even further for being outnumbered
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
The more people you face the worse it get and the more people you have fighting with you it gets so mich better.
I want this changed into this: -x^2/16+1
Not sure if serious or trolling. Worst balance suggestion I have ever seen on the forum. Have you even done the math or are you pulling that out of thin air? And I'm sure the servers need to compute more floating point when they are already slow. Guess we will have extreme lag when enough lights are placed, right?
Look at the graph of exp(x) and -x^2/16 +1 with the x and y axis i described in my post.
There's not much math involved in this also it has nothing to do with the server because that's just the skill performance vs different amounts of enemies and that can be done for every skill in this game.
Here's my problem: you want them to add a feature to a skill that a minority of players even whine about in a way that will only be useful if you're facing idiots doing bow light attacks. If it's added to backlash, there is no reason any other skill shouldn't receive similar scaling. If they do that, I guarantee it will result in more lag because I'm certain the server calculates damage and it will result in more floating point calculations. I know for sure I will start using my templar again just to cause lag by spamming light on entire zergs But yeah, dismiss that so you can pretend you are going to live longer under backlash, even though all the other skills will still kill you just as fast in Xv1 OR alternatively, the skill wont be used and will be replaced with a CC on their bar (better choice 99.999% of the time anyway). Even if not, they will move to the next "Xv1 tool" which is every damage skill in the game.
I'm not going to even lie, I have less problems with backlash deaths than any other skill in the game that has a CC or interrupt attached. I'm dead serious about that statement, and this is on ANY class I play. I routinely encounter zergs and groups of people all the time in Cyrodil and backlash is the LAST of my worries. The fact that you don't talk about interrupt spam, you don't talk about purifying, and talk about LoS means that you're likely a stam build...Let me take a magic guess, stam NB? If so, keep the jokes coming about what's balanced and what's not.
how will changing the skill result in more lag? in fact it reduces the calculations of the Server not the other way around.
Let's check which builds i currently Play in pvp shall we?
Stamplar, magplar, magdk, magsorc, magnb, stamnb, stamdk.
let's see which classes i've also been playing in pvp: stamwarden, stamsorc, magwarden
I'm not biased towards any class i'm biased towards Balance and Xv1 skills are a Balance nightmare.
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Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
how will changing the skill result in more lag? in fact it reduces the calculations of the Server not the other way around.
Let's check which builds i currently Play in pvp shall we?
Stamplar, magplar, magdk, magsorc, magnb, stamnb, stamdk.
let's see which classes i've also been playing in pvp: stamwarden, stamsorc, magwarden
I'm not biased towards any class i'm biased towards Balance and Xv1 skills are a Balance nightmare.
It's a "balance nightmare" because its an incredibly stupid thing to do. You said that backlash and its morphs "uses all incoming damage and not the damage of the caster alone which makes the skill good in 1v1 but flat out broken in Xv1 because it punishes you even further for being outnumbered" but what skill does not? By that same logic, any stun, snare, or interrupt is too good and OP outside of 1v1. Any skill that does massive damage is also OP outside 1v1, yet you have a problem with this one. I don't understand your logic.
As for how it will cause more lag, exactly how do you think damage calculations will reduce with something additional to compute? Or are you saying no other calculation besides that one you put would be computed? I'm sure additional computation helped with lag when AoE caps were around, oh wait...
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
how will changing the skill result in more lag? in fact it reduces the calculations of the Server not the other way around.
Let's check which builds i currently Play in pvp shall we?
Stamplar, magplar, magdk, magsorc, magnb, stamnb, stamdk.
let's see which classes i've also been playing in pvp: stamwarden, stamsorc, magwarden
I'm not biased towards any class i'm biased towards Balance and Xv1 skills are a Balance nightmare.
It's a "balance nightmare" because its an incredibly stupid thing to do. You said that backlash and its morphs "uses all incoming damage and not the damage of the caster alone which makes the skill good in 1v1 but flat out broken in Xv1 because it punishes you even further for being outnumbered" but what skill does not? By that same logic, any stun, snare, or interrupt is too good and OP outside of 1v1. Any skill that does massive damage is also OP outside 1v1, yet you have a problem with this one. I don't understand your logic.
As for how it will cause more lag, exactly how do you think damage calculations will reduce with something additional to compute? Or are you saying no other calculation besides that one you put would be computed? I'm sure additional computation helped with lag when AoE caps were around, oh wait...
there are less calculations because you don't multiply all incoming damage by *0.2 rahter than only the damage of the caster.
Please read what @Valencer or @Subversus wrote in this post already when talking about skills which are better in xv1 than 1v10 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I actually like that feature of the skill. If you take that away, it's like a [snip] Haunting Curse. The chances where you don't hit the damage cap would massively increase. In which case it becomes quite inefficient considering it takes 6" before exploding.
In PvE it wouldn't make much difference, but it'd be quite a bit for PvP.EU | PC | AD0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Please read what @Valencer or @Subversus wrote in this post already when talking about skills which are better in xv1 than 1v1
I saw and disagree. I don't see the difference between this skill and any other skill. To say that two backlash scales better than two curses is just stupid because they both are better than the other depending on the situation. "A skill gets too strong depending on the # of people that attack you". Again, executioner spam, lethal arrow, all channels, all stuns, all interrupts, etc. tell me how that is any different? They all become more of a problem the more that are stacked and to argue there is a difference of degree between them is not a fact, it's simply opinion. Again, situational. There is NO skill that isn't problematic or "overtuned" in Xv1. N O N E. I still can't understand your logic.
You can also keep believing it wont cause lag. All I have to say is "whatever you say."0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Please read what @Valencer or @Subversus wrote in this post already when talking about skills which are better in xv1 than 1v1
I saw and disagree. I don't see the difference between this skill and any other skill. To say that two backlash scales better than two curses is just stupid because they both are better than the other depending on the situation. "A skill gets too strong depending on the # of people that attack you". Again, executioner spam, lethal arrow, all channels, all stuns, all interrupts, etc. tell me how that is any different? They all become more of a problem the more that are stacked and to argue there is a difference of degree between them is not a fact, it's simply opinion. Again, situational. There is NO skill that isn't problematic or "overtuned" in Xv1. N O N E. I still can't understand your logic.
You can also keep believing it wont cause lag. All I have to say is "whatever you say."
tell me how will it cause more lag?
There is a decrease in calculations, nothing changes about how the calculation for the damage is done0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"Any skill is annoying when getting Xv1'd"
Aside from, you know, backlash scaling off how many people are hitting the same target and the damage other people are doing.
Every other skill hits for nothing on a 0-damage build
That's where you are wrong. What build is zero damage with a tooltip on that skill that high? If someone has a 28K tooltip on purifying light, how much mag do they have? Do you know that all magicka class skills get more powerful with more magicka? Once this skill is nerfed, you'll be back here crying about templar's beam and how good it is on these same builds. And let's assume that they got their damage on that skill by maxing out direct damage CP star, how strong would toppling, javelin, etc. be with such a mag pol or damage buff to direct damage? You're assuming they also don't have penetration and that your resistances will be high. If not and/or someone else debuff you (uh oh, Xv1 tool!), then you will not be taking a laughable amount of damage OR you won't be doing damage either/get outhealed.2 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭his only problem is that you can apply it and walk away without further ado and it gets maxed out. which results in a burst damage, which isnt blockable or dodgeable. thats what he is thinking its unfair. but there are a lot of options how to deal with it backlash, if its on you, the same goes for other skills, which arent blockable or dodgeable. most of them are channeled or have a timer.
only problem seems to be that actually even somebody without much spelldamage can achieve high damage with it, even when he doesnt have helped out doing damage. in my opinion this all is exaggerated, since this skill has limits. it cant be stacked on one player, at needs an eternity to even deal damage (the target might be dead or out of reach, when it actually goes off, you cant spam it.....
and just because its not blockable or dodgeable, doesnt mean you cant mitigate it. btw there are skills out, which can be casted once and do more damage than backlash.
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Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Please read what @Valencer or @Subversus wrote in this post already when talking about skills which are better in xv1 than 1v1
I saw and disagree. I don't see the difference between this skill and any other skill. To say that two backlash scales better than two curses is just stupid because they both are better than the other depending on the situation. "A skill gets too strong depending on the # of people that attack you". Again, executioner spam, lethal arrow, all channels, all stuns, all interrupts, etc. tell me how that is any different? They all become more of a problem the more that are stacked and to argue there is a difference of degree between them is not a fact, it's simply opinion. Again, situational. There is NO skill that isn't problematic or "overtuned" in Xv1. N O N E. I still can't understand your logic.
You can also keep believing it wont cause lag. All I have to say is "whatever you say."
tell me how will it cause more lag?
There is a decrease in calculations, nothing changes about how the calculation for the damage is done
You're assuming the damage is not calculated anyway and then truncated. Even if not, the skill would have to check the damage from every person attacking you before concluding it's not yours. That means if you are getting zerged down, those checks will result in performance loss, especially when you have to call the check and then calculate damage anyway. You would need to have the original damage function from whoever did the attack and calculate that damage on the target, then check if you should apply it on backlash's limit, and possibly compute that damage again against backlash. How will that NOT result in performance loss over the way now where it's always applied and there likely is no check in damage?0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Please read what @Valencer or @Subversus wrote in this post already when talking about skills which are better in xv1 than 1v1
I saw and disagree. I don't see the difference between this skill and any other skill. To say that two backlash scales better than two curses is just stupid because they both are better than the other depending on the situation. "A skill gets too strong depending on the # of people that attack you". Again, executioner spam, lethal arrow, all channels, all stuns, all interrupts, etc. tell me how that is any different? They all become more of a problem the more that are stacked and to argue there is a difference of degree between them is not a fact, it's simply opinion. Again, situational. There is NO skill that isn't problematic or "overtuned" in Xv1. N O N E. I still can't understand your logic.
You can also keep believing it wont cause lag. All I have to say is "whatever you say."
tell me how will it cause more lag?
There is a decrease in calculations, nothing changes about how the calculation for the damage is done
You're assuming the damage is not calculated anyway and then truncated. Even if not, the skill would have to check the damage from every person attacking you before concluding it's not yours. That means if you are getting zerged down, those checks will result in performance loss, especially when you have to call the check and then calculate damage anyway. You would need to have the original damage function from whoever did the attack and calculate that damage on the target, then check if you should apply it on backlash's limit, and possibly compute that damage again against backlash. How will that NOT result in performance loss over the way now where it's always applied and there likely is no check in damage?
the game already tracks which Player uses which skill and hits you with the skill. ever wondered how we get death recaps?
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Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Please read what @Valencer or @Subversus wrote in this post already when talking about skills which are better in xv1 than 1v1
I saw and disagree. I don't see the difference between this skill and any other skill. To say that two backlash scales better than two curses is just stupid because they both are better than the other depending on the situation. "A skill gets too strong depending on the # of people that attack you". Again, executioner spam, lethal arrow, all channels, all stuns, all interrupts, etc. tell me how that is any different? They all become more of a problem the more that are stacked and to argue there is a difference of degree between them is not a fact, it's simply opinion. Again, situational. There is NO skill that isn't problematic or "overtuned" in Xv1. N O N E. I still can't understand your logic.
You can also keep believing it wont cause lag. All I have to say is "whatever you say."
tell me how will it cause more lag?
There is a decrease in calculations, nothing changes about how the calculation for the damage is done
You're assuming the damage is not calculated anyway and then truncated. Even if not, the skill would have to check the damage from every person attacking you before concluding it's not yours. That means if you are getting zerged down, those checks will result in performance loss, especially when you have to call the check and then calculate damage anyway. You would need to have the original damage function from whoever did the attack and calculate that damage on the target, then check if you should apply it on backlash's limit, and possibly compute that damage again against backlash. How will that NOT result in performance loss over the way now where it's always applied and there likely is no check in damage?
the game already tracks which Player uses which skill and hits you with the skill. ever wondered how we get death recaps?
If you can't understand the difference, there really is no explaining it to you.0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think the fact that this skill shines more in an XvX situation than in a 1v1 is actually intended. If you look at the templar class as a whole it is more or less designed for group support, doing AoE, providing synergies and relying on group members to get most out of the dmg potential. Nova is another example of this. The class just doesn't fit very well into a solo player role the way it is currently designed. If this was the intent, than potl would not work like it does currently. Do I like this? No I absolutely don't.0 -
DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER✭✭✭✭✭Blocking got nerfed so hard that power of the light should be blockable again imo1
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Please read what @Valencer or @Subversus wrote in this post already when talking about skills which are better in xv1 than 1v1
I saw and disagree. I don't see the difference between this skill and any other skill. To say that two backlash scales better than two curses is just stupid because they both are better than the other depending on the situation. "A skill gets too strong depending on the # of people that attack you". Again, executioner spam, lethal arrow, all channels, all stuns, all interrupts, etc. tell me how that is any different? They all become more of a problem the more that are stacked and to argue there is a difference of degree between them is not a fact, it's simply opinion. Again, situational. There is NO skill that isn't problematic or "overtuned" in Xv1. N O N E. I still can't understand your logic.
You can also keep believing it wont cause lag. All I have to say is "whatever you say."
tell me how will it cause more lag?
There is a decrease in calculations, nothing changes about how the calculation for the damage is done
You're assuming the damage is not calculated anyway and then truncated. Even if not, the skill would have to check the damage from every person attacking you before concluding it's not yours. That means if you are getting zerged down, those checks will result in performance loss, especially when you have to call the check and then calculate damage anyway. You would need to have the original damage function from whoever did the attack and calculate that damage on the target, then check if you should apply it on backlash's limit, and possibly compute that damage again against backlash. How will that NOT result in performance loss over the way now where it's always applied and there likely is no check in damage?
the game already tracks which Player uses which skill and hits you with the skill. ever wondered how we get death recaps?
If you can't understand the difference, there really is no explaining it to you.
You are the one failing to understand how the game tracks abilities, damage etc.
Edited by BohnT on April 13, 2018 2:04PM0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »Blocking got nerfed so hard that power of the light should be blockable again imo
No it shouldn't0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭King_Thelon wrote: »Zerglings here defending an Xv1 skill. In other news, water is wet.
In other news, 1vXer claims they can 1vX, yet constantly looks for more buffs to their playstyle. Nothing to see here.2 -
DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER✭✭✭✭✭DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »Blocking got nerfed so hard that power of the light should be blockable again imo
No it shouldn't
It should, theres no counterplay against this skill. Cant dodge it cant block it cant cloak it you can just try to avoid damage0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »Blocking got nerfed so hard that power of the light should be blockable again imo
No it shouldn't
It should, theres no counterplay against this skill. Cant dodge it cant block it cant cloak it you can just try to avoid damage
With your changes, potl would be useless, may as well slot something else and rip stamplars0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »Blocking got nerfed so hard that power of the light should be blockable again imo
No it shouldn't
It should, theres no counterplay against this skill. Cant dodge it cant block it cant cloak it you can just try to avoid damage
That's exactly the counterplay this skill has which is intended.
5 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So much wrong in the OP.
At any rate; I would accept it being templar damage only, but it better copy a lot more of our damage. Class is already "Tickle me Templar" for DPS and that is part of the already lackluster burst of the class. Templar could use some more solo friendly capability to get them out of the healbot meta.Edited by technohic on April 13, 2018 2:24PM0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Please read what @Valencer or @Subversus wrote in this post already when talking about skills which are better in xv1 than 1v1
I saw and disagree. I don't see the difference between this skill and any other skill. To say that two backlash scales better than two curses is just stupid because they both are better than the other depending on the situation. "A skill gets too strong depending on the # of people that attack you". Again, executioner spam, lethal arrow, all channels, all stuns, all interrupts, etc. tell me how that is any different? They all become more of a problem the more that are stacked and to argue there is a difference of degree between them is not a fact, it's simply opinion. Again, situational. There is NO skill that isn't problematic or "overtuned" in Xv1. N O N E. I still can't understand your logic.
You can also keep believing it wont cause lag. All I have to say is "whatever you say."
tell me how will it cause more lag?
There is a decrease in calculations, nothing changes about how the calculation for the damage is done
You're assuming the damage is not calculated anyway and then truncated. Even if not, the skill would have to check the damage from every person attacking you before concluding it's not yours. That means if you are getting zerged down, those checks will result in performance loss, especially when you have to call the check and then calculate damage anyway. You would need to have the original damage function from whoever did the attack and calculate that damage on the target, then check if you should apply it on backlash's limit, and possibly compute that damage again against backlash. How will that NOT result in performance loss over the way now where it's always applied and there likely is no check in damage?
the game already tracks which Player uses which skill and hits you with the skill. ever wondered how we get death recaps?
If you can't understand the difference, there really is no explaining it to you.
You are the one failing to understand how the game tracks abilities, damage etc.
You just don't understand, do you? In order for that system you want to work, there would need to be a special check on every cast of backlash for every bit of damage that occurs. To say that a death recap is the same thing is WRONG because a death recap can:
1. Not be computed in real-time and retroactively. Won't matter.
2. Be composed of data that exists and is monitored completely client-side
3. Tracking damage simply means there is an identifier on who did the damage, not that the damage against the player is actually checked before computed. In fact, it would make zero sense to do so unless a skill like the backlash you want to exist, existed.
Here is an example:
No backlash:
You hit A , A takes damage, checks damage against A's HP , check if A lives or dies, change state
Now with backlash:
You hit A , A takes damage, checks damage against A's HP, (backlash flag check, backlash computes damage against maximum backlash value and stored, backlash explodes or doesn't explode, backlash computed against player hp), check if A lives or dies, change state of player
What you want looks like this when backlash is on in the way you want it:
You hit A, A takes damage, checks damage against A's HP, (backlash flag check, BACKLASH CHECKS IDENTIFIER ON DAMAGE, backlash computes damage against maximum value and stored amount (NOTE: this might require an additional step to truncate the damage depending on how such a function would be implemented and how backlash is already implemented right now), backlash explodes or doesn't explode, check and compute damage against A's HP), check if A lives or dies, change state of player.
Understand the issue now? It WILL require more computation and it could be more than two additional steps. Then we throw CP, damage done modifiers, etc. and you can imagine what that actually means for performance. What will happen if I light an entire zerg up?0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@BohnT - sign me up for a better 1v1 or 1vX Backlash skill.
But given ZoS's history of altering skills, it's much more more likely than any change will be in the simplistic blanket nerf ala the OP. Hence, my presence in this thread.2 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »Blocking got nerfed so hard that power of the light should be blockable again imo
No it shouldn't
It should, theres no counterplay against this skill. Cant dodge it cant block it cant cloak it you can just try to avoid damage
Blocking prior to explosion, mitigation from any source (armor, major minor buffs), dodge roll, shuffle, cc the user, go offensive so they user can't damage you, line of sight so the caster can't damage you, preparing for it in the 6 seconds you have to know howhard it'll hit.
X v 1 is more difficult (add it should be, you're dealing with more) bc there aremore sources of damage. But think of this.. 3 templars can only have 1 backlash on an opponent (unless it's potl and purifying) and it normally does less damage than 1 shalk which is aoe every 3 seconds, unblockable, stackable burst. 3 warden's when time well can do more damage to infinitely more people over 6 seconds than 100x templars can do to 1 person with this skill.
Saying it's overpowered is rediculous considering so many skills.1
