Power of the light/Purifying light should only stack your own damage

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER

40k health templars and only healbots doing 6-10k unmitigated damage with this skill while not having a single damage skill on their bar is pretty broken isnt it?

swirve

Did a templar kill you earlier today?

Sergykid

acceptable only if the copy rate is higher than the 20% currently is.

Illurian

Only if they do a PvE/PvP split. Hell no otherwise.

MalakithAlamahdi

It's not. Templar doesn't need any more nerfs.

Minno

This ability has a weird intent. It was originally designed to be a group buff to damage, but was being used to crutch on the class not having access to more reliable burst.

And it works differently in pve than in PvP. For PvP, the ability should override previous casts to promote skilled play (stack DMG on the target and let the Templar call out those targets). But in pve doing this creates issues where you have 2+ Templars whose dps is limited because only one could run the morph.

Idk the answer, except Templars need burst outside of purfying light/monster helms and then making this ability recast previous morphs.

Apache_Kid

Just curious OP what class do you play?

supaskrub

Just tell all the readers now, where did that nasty little Templar touch you?

arkansas_ESO

Minno wrote: »

This ability has a weird intent. It was originally designed to be a group buff to damage, but was being used to crutch on the class not having access to more reliable burst.

I don't think ZOS intended it for be a buff to group damage, but instead for solo play. Here's the developer comments from when the ability was first buffed:

"We want to see Backlash as a burst damage ability that you can use in solo PvE or PvP content. To accomplish this, we not only increased the amount of copied damage, but also doubled it in Cyrodiil. This increase in Cyrodiil was to account for both Battle Spirit and the playstyles of enemies; enemy players are much harder to hit with 5 seconds of unhindered attacks. This change should open up a lot of exciting possibilities for Templars in PvP and we’d love to hear your feedback on it."

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2/p1

In that regard, OP's suggestion wouldn't be out of the scope of what ZOS intended for the ability to be.

Minno

Thanks @arkansas_ESO !

I'll take back my comment then!

Edit:
I don't take back my original comment; the developer notes are from 2017 after they realized Templars were using the spell differently from when it was originally intended back at launch.

Puryfing light should not dictate Templar burst, as 6 seconds is a long time to get enough DMG in combat as you are taking more instant cast DMG while also being too short of a timer to requiring constant recasting which forces Templar rotations to be more clunky than other classes.

I think they need to rework this ability of they want to clean up Templar rotations.

Strider__Roshin

It's an Xv1 mechanic, and I think it needs to be reworked. Having it scale solely from the caster's damage done isn't a Templar nerf, it's a zergling nerf.

MalakithAlamahdi

Daus wrote: »

It's an Xv1 mechanic, and I think it needs to be reworked. Having it scale solely from the caster's damage done isn't a Templar nerf, it's a zergling nerf.

It's also used for PvE. It's great for healers that want to add some damage to the group. Besides that, the damage is capped, which you can easily reach on a damage build or with just 1 extra player. Zergs don't even need single target skills like this to kill people, stacking AoE is way easier and just as effective.

booksmcread

Bring back the LOL button, please.

Mr_Nobody

Lol. Nerf templar thread

ak_pvp

Yes for PvP, no for PvE. Its bugged already as some raid testing today showed. Out about half of the explosions go off. The group had two stamplars so I assume there is some overrwrite bug going on.

Wreuntzylla

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

This ability has a weird intent. It was originally designed to be a group buff to damage, but was being used to crutch on the class not having access to more reliable burst.

I don't think ZOS intended it for be a buff to group damage, but instead for solo play. Here's the developer comments from when the ability was first buffed:

"We want to see Backlash as a burst damage ability that you can use in solo PvE or PvP content. To accomplish this, we not only increased the amount of copied damage, but also doubled it in Cyrodiil. This increase in Cyrodiil was to account for both Battle Spirit and the playstyles of enemies; enemy players are much harder to hit with 5 seconds of unhindered attacks. This change should open up a lot of exciting possibilities for Templars in PvP and we’d love to hear your feedback on it."

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2/p1

In that regard, OP's suggestion wouldn't be out of the scope of what ZOS intended for the ability to be.

Like many things over the life of this game, even if a bug, I think they left it in for the very reason they provided. For most of the life of this game, PvP has been DPS centric, with 20k health the standard. Now, it is uncommon to run into anyone without significant mitigation (dodge, shields, block, cloak), as well as ~30k health (about 26k to 50k).

The buff to the backlash morphs came at the same time as ZoS was focused on nerfing tanky, 1vX builds. It is actually a creative solution as it will typically only burst tanky builds being beat on by 3+ players. Every form of active mitigation other than block is 100% - dodge, shields and cloak.

It works really well against ... magplars...

LeagueTroll

Nerf templar? For real? If you don’t like heal bot. Stop 1vx and cry after you fail.

OrdoHermetica

...it already has a damage cap on mirrored damage. This would just reduce the usefulness of Templars in group situations, and seriously, Templars don't need more debuffs.

So, uh, no. This is a terrible idea, lol. Templars are already only barely viable as is in PvP, and pretty narrow in their viable roles in PvE. Removing this would make an already lackluster class even worse, and isn't necessary to begin with.

NyassaV

OMFG this user is so amazingly ignorant how how some classes work when it comes to their skills.

Power of the light and purifying light only copy a faction of the damage you take and then reapply it. Which means if I hit you for 8k damage in the duration of which PoTL is active when PoTL expired it will hit for something like 2.5k damage (I'm not sure the exact value). So no this is not going to happen at all ever in the history of the game. It is silly and unreasonable to ask for this change

NyassaV

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Just curious OP what class do you play?

DK... That's all they play from the knowledge they have exhibited over the past few months

Merlin13KAGL

That would mean individual casts would have to stack, to be fair and all.

Pretty sure you don't want 5 different people PoL'ing you at once, even if their damage is only half the max amount...

Nelson_Rebel

The soft CC this thing was designed around is a bit overtuned.


But that's only because (Magic) Templars lost the ability to CC properly so this skill was overtuned for PvP. But the skill is nice for PvE and is not overtuned

Templars don't need this nerf though. Their Heals are being nerfed so the class needs some identitity and this skill is definitley a well known skill that kills any player who isn't prepared.

Its a good skill, and should stay as is. For now baring any broken combinations when summerset launches as we have no idea


So no Nerfs, no buffs until we can start looking at pts proper

Checkmath

There is a soft cc in puryfying light or in power of the light? Thats new to me...
To clarify some things. This skill is stackable, so if two stamplars use it on the same target, both will deal the initial damage and the copied end damage. In pve this is a solid part of any templar dd role, since its end damage in pve is more than 20k (sadly cant crit). Also its an easy way for templar tanks or healers to add some damage to your groups dps. For pvp this skill is the only skill for templars to allow some real combo. After casting it we templars can deal some decent damage with jabs (dots should be applied before casting backlash morph) and use a hard hitting stun ability/ultimate (like dawnbreaker) the same time backlash runs off. This is pretty much the best combo a templars has (for magplars eclypse and dark flare are nice to add, for stamplar the stamina morph if the aedric skill ultimate). Still this skill requires setting a combo up over 6 seconds and it will only hit hard, if no stun or anything else interrupts it (magplars mostly already have rather low spelldamage...). Anyway if you feel the skill is too mich, since it copies the damage from others too....then you were just outnumbered and would have died anyway.

Rohamad_Ali

Another bad idea .

Aztlan

Nope.

Joy_Division

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

This ability has a weird intent. It was originally designed to be a group buff to damage, but was being used to crutch on the class not having access to more reliable burst.

I don't think ZOS intended it for be a buff to group damage, but instead for solo play. Here's the developer comments from when the ability was first buffed:

"We want to see Backlash as a burst damage ability that you can use in solo PvE or PvP content. To accomplish this, we not only increased the amount of copied damage, but also doubled it in Cyrodiil. This increase in Cyrodiil was to account for both Battle Spirit and the playstyles of enemies; enemy players are much harder to hit with 5 seconds of unhindered attacks. This change should open up a lot of exciting possibilities for Templars in PvP and we’d love to hear your feedback on it."

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/314484/pts-patch-notes-v2-7-2/p1

In that regard, OP's suggestion wouldn't be out of the scope of what ZOS intended for the ability to be.

This was their intent, but the execution is off. It is *very* hard to get the max damage in a 1v1 - to say impossible in a 1vX - Vs. a competent opponent(s). If we do as the OP suggest, the damage component becomes dubious in competitive play, useless for healers in PvE, useless for support role templars, and in general not very good except Vs. a Target dummy rotation. Every other class special proc burst skill (Relentless Focus, Curse, Sub Assault, Flame Whip) would be miles ahead.

TheDoomsdayMonster

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

40k health templars and only healbots doing 6-10k unmitigated damage with this skill while not having a single damage skill on their bar is pretty broken isnt it?

Salty player detected...

Cage_Lizardman

Who cares, templars rarely kill anything anyway, including other templars:

You might as well force us to wear Ice Furnace at this point. It would go well with how awful and outdated most of our class skills are in pvp.

Brutusmax1mus

Do you only make nerf threads??

Grimlok_S

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

40k health templars and only healbots doing 6-10k unmitigated damage with this skill while not having a single damage skill on their bar is pretty broken isnt it?

I would LOVE to see a 40k healthplar hit a 10k potl. Proof please.

Maura_Neysa

DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »

40k health templars and only healbots doing 6-10k unmitigated damage with this skill while not having a single damage skill on their bar is pretty broken isnt it?

No it isn't. Its called group play. Not to mention, the amount of total damage possible is limited by build. A 6-10k is likely Stamplar. My Stamplar Tool Tip is 19k (50% of that due to Battle Spirit) while my Healers Tool tip is 13k. I also main a Tank that I PvE & PvP with. Its obvious when I get a Healer PotL on me verse Stamplars. Healers means nothing and is laughable and is 90% of them. Stamplars is a great execute, better then any other one I get hit by, despite it not actually being an execute.