Let's talk about Warden (Summerset edition)

usmcjdking

Magden is in the same boat Mag DK is in.

Too much unneeded utility. On paper for traditional MMO raid layouts warden and DK have an amazing toolkit.

This toolkit is however rendered useless because it's either taken care of by a tank or ignored by stacked destruction ultimates. Neither Warden nor Mag DK have relevant jobs for their skills in trials anymore with exception of the twins in VMOL. This is not a balance issue, this is a game design issue.

Ron_Burgundy_79

xbobx wrote: »

Their changes to assault kind of shows them their mentality.

They kept major fracture on the stamina build and took off major breach and put it on the magic morph.

its interesting because that tells me they dont care about the group affect of the skill only that it benefits the warden with their current build.

now i know you hate the no stun, but will major breach not help the damage of magden if you are running solo content?

Maybe solo pve, but not solo pvp. I'll take the stun everyday and twice on Sunday. I don't need extra damage.

MLGProPlayer

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

Their changes to assault kind of shows them their mentality.

They kept major fracture on the stamina build and took off major breach and put it on the magic morph.

its interesting because that tells me they dont care about the group affect of the skill only that it benefits the warden with their current build.

now i know you hate the no stun, but will major breach not help the damage of magden if you are running solo content?

Maybe solo pve, but not solo pvp. I'll take the stun everyday and twice on Sunday. I don't need extra damage.

It doesn't actually add extra damage in PvE since every group has 100% uptime on major breach anyway. It's s such a ridiculous change for both PvP and PvE.

MLGProPlayer

usmcjdking wrote: »

Magden is in the same boat Mag DK is in.

Too much unneeded utility. On paper for traditional MMO raid layouts warden and DK have an amazing toolkit.

This toolkit is however rendered useless because it's either taken care of by a tank or ignored by stacked destruction ultimates. Neither Warden nor Mag DK have relevant jobs for their skills in trials anymore with exception of the twins in VMOL. This is not a balance issue, this is a game design issue.

There are also fundamental design flaws with both classes. DKs are a melee class while wardens rely on a double barred pet for damage. This makes them unpopular for most group content. You bring magicka classes with you for ranged damage and AOE damage. DK lacks the former, warden the latter.

Araxyte

It's too draining on human resources to fix Mag Warden. In order to fix them, it would take an allocation of at least a whole human brain to come up with something... which is just far too much for ZOS.

On a serious note this is getting very silly, Mag Wardens have needed a PVE buff since forever and we've not seen any. Not even something small like improving those abysmal fetcher flies.

Maura_Neysa

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I definitely like the changes to arctic wind/morphs. I've been saying since morrowind beta that 10% up front + 10% over time is not even close to sufficient for a tank's emergency self heal. I'm hoping that when they said it was being increased by 20% that they mean it'll be 30% of your max health + 10% over time, and not just 20% max health + 10% over time. 30% would put it on par with the new dark cloak, clannfear heal, and dragon's blood (in dire cases).

I'm a little disappointed they increased the cost of shimmering shield. I think it would have been a better fix to remove or reduce the magicka return on absorbed projectiles, instead of increasing the cost of the skill overall. This just makes it harder to use for tanks, who are the ones that need it most. They should reduce the cost and just remove the magicka return, it's a convoluted ability at this point.

The changes to swinging vines wont really make them any more used by anyone, IMO - healers or otherwise. The ability itself needs to be entirely reworked, the targeting is terrible,t he healing amount is terrible, and there are other ways to generate ultimate. I'd much rather see this used as a gap closer (self pull to enemy) for at least one morph to help out the damage builds for warden, and have the other morph act more like guard or something, linking you to a player. It'd be really cool if it linked you to one other player (like guard), had a longer range (28m or so), and 'shared' all healing received between the two. That'd make it better for healers to use when cast on tanks, and tanks could cast it on healers or dps to share healing with them for survival (especially with a new 30% max hp heal on the tank).

Bird of prey still needs to be looked at, the 10 second duration is completely insufficient for damage dealers - nightblades have basically the same ability and it lasts for 20 seconds and has a massive burst damage added in that can be cast up to 3 times per activation. Having this thing stuck at 10 seconds is pathetic.

Swarm, fetcher infection, and growing swarm all need to be looked at as well. Swarm's damage is pretty pitiful as far as DoTs go. Fetcher infection really should be a stamina morph, dealing disease damage over time - the current functionality of increased damage on every other cast is fine IMO, though a little uninspired. Growing swarm is terrible, and should be a ground cast aoe that gains radius and damage over time not unlike hurricane, such would befit the name and the playstyle of wardens far more appropriately than the piece of shalk dung it is right now.

Growing warm is a 6k heal as well. Don't forget the passives. Warden isn't nearly as bad as people think..

Also as far as damage goes I think we need to wait and see how it synergizes with the new psijic skill line. Right now warden hits competitive numbers as long as it's able to guard someone and honestly having one magen DPS guarding a MagBlade DPS is more group dmg then having 2 Magblades.

And group utility is way to often scoffed at. Having a dps with a flex slot set to an conal burst heal isn't such a bad thing. I'm excited to also for the psijic passive 5k shield. I can see that being enough for good players to drop shield on their bar for it. Where there is a will there is a way. I can see Magden being really strong in the right hands. We won't be seeing any 8man warden dps raids sure, but I think any raid lead would be foolish to not see the benefit of having 1 Magden dps in the group next patch. I can see optimal group being 1 of each the range Mag DPS with maybe 2 Magblades for their strong single target.

Wardens have no dupport utility on their DPS skills. Slotting an extra support ability drops DPS or survivability far too low.

In their current state, you will never see a DPS magden in a vet trial group. That's been the case ever since the class was released.

Bear and Master Architect = Support Ulti

Maura_Neysa

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

It's no more or less broken than sorc pets are.

disagree... the sorc pets actually do useful things.. heal, AOE, etc. Must say, I'm a little disappointed in the sleepy bear

So does the Bear, he CCs and he 15k instant damage in Cryodiil. He A a 75% execute (if you manage to land him)

Maura_Neysa

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

As a warden tank I'm on the fence here. They removed my access to an aoe major breach and fracture, which is a big deal imo, but they also made arctic wind a good tank self heal which kinda counters things.

I'm very disappointed to see no changes to swarm or bird of prey though.

wait, they got rid of the breach and fracture!?

Welp, i might as well just delete my warden tank right now. I thought, yay, i had a viable end game magicka tank with frost staff. and this literally just smashed that.

Is the debuf added to anything else, or was it just nerf no give?

Sub Assult will still give Major Fracture
Fissure will now give Major Breach and won’t stun anymore.
I’ve been working on a Frost tank for a while. 2x Frost I haven’t found. S&B/Frost though is absolute viable though.

I lost breech on my sub assault... I'm less than happy at the NERF. Call it what is is.

Sub Assult is a tank nerf. A rare tank build, but a nerf.
Sub Assult is a nothing changed on a DPS build.
Deep Fissure in PvP is an unknown. Will Breach be worth as much as stun? Only actual test will answer this.
Deep Fissure is a PvE buff. Breach is worth way more in PvE where the stun was screwing tanks over when chain / gating

MLGProPlayer

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

It's no more or less broken than sorc pets are.

disagree... the sorc pets actually do useful things.. heal, AOE, etc. Must say, I'm a little disappointed in the sleepy bear

So does the Bear, he CCs and he 15k instant damage in Cryodiil. He A a 75% execute (if you manage to land him)

And how much of that is useful in PvE? Or even Cyrodiil PvP? None of it.

The warden needs to slot the bear. The sorc can choose to slot their pets or not. There is a huge difference between the two.

Maura_Neysa

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

It's no more or less broken than sorc pets are.

disagree... the sorc pets actually do useful things.. heal, AOE, etc. Must say, I'm a little disappointed in the sleepy bear

So does the Bear, he CCs and he 15k instant damage in Cryodiil. He A a 75% execute (if you manage to land him)

And how much of that is useful in PvE? Or even Cyrodiil PvP? None of it.

The warden needs to slot the bear. The sorc can choose to slot their pets or not. There is a huge difference between the two.

CC and 15k burst aren't useful?? What game are you playing. The Bear also telegraphs which is also highly useful, running to the next mob spam point or chasing a cloaked NB for an extra second.

By the way 15k bust is non-cnit in Cryodiil. its 40-50k crit outside and 50-100 k crit exicute

SanTii.92

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

It's no more or less broken than sorc pets are.

disagree... the sorc pets actually do useful things.. heal, AOE, etc. Must say, I'm a little disappointed in the sleepy bear

So does the Bear, he CCs and he 15k instant damage in Cryodiil. He A a 75% execute (if you manage to land him)

And how much of that is useful in PvE? Or even Cyrodiil PvP? None of it.

The warden needs to slot the bear. The sorc can choose to slot their pets or not. There is a huge difference between the two.

CC and 15k burst aren't useful?? What game are you playing. The Bear also telegraphs which is also highly useful, running to the next mob spam point or chasing a cloaked NB for an extra second.

By the way 15k bust is non-cnit in Cryodiil. its 40-50k crit outside and 50-100 k crit exicute

If you are slotting the bear over dbos or tree ulti you are simply doing it wrong.

Ron_Burgundy_79

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

As a warden tank I'm on the fence here. They removed my access to an aoe major breach and fracture, which is a big deal imo, but they also made arctic wind a good tank self heal which kinda counters things.

I'm very disappointed to see no changes to swarm or bird of prey though.

wait, they got rid of the breach and fracture!?

Welp, i might as well just delete my warden tank right now. I thought, yay, i had a viable end game magicka tank with frost staff. and this literally just smashed that.

Is the debuf added to anything else, or was it just nerf no give?

Sub Assult will still give Major Fracture
Fissure will now give Major Breach and won’t stun anymore.
I’ve been working on a Frost tank for a while. 2x Frost I haven’t found. S&B/Frost though is absolute viable though.

I lost breech on my sub assault... I'm less than happy at the NERF. Call it what is is.

Sub Assult is a tank nerf. A rare tank build, but a nerf.
Sub Assult is a nothing changed on a DPS build.
Deep Fissure in PvP is an unknown. Will Breach be worth as much as stun? Only actual test will answer this.
Deep Fissure is a PvE buff. Breach is worth way more in PvE where the stun was screwing tanks over when chain / gating

I don't need testing to know that major breach isn't going to out weigh the extra damage, shield size, and sustain I gain from inner light which I'll have to drop in favor of another cc. It will also force me to cast another skill during my burst combo that will cost me extra magic. If I replace force pulse or cliff racer with a cc, I will lose a large chunk of my burst damage.

Frame it however you want, but this is a massive nerf to magwardens in pvp. It's the crystal frag and blazing spear nerf all over again.

Lynx7386

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

It's no more or less broken than sorc pets are.

disagree... the sorc pets actually do useful things.. heal, AOE, etc. Must say, I'm a little disappointed in the sleepy bear

So does the Bear, he CCs and he 15k instant damage in Cryodiil. He A a 75% execute (if you manage to land him)

And how much of that is useful in PvE? Or even Cyrodiil PvP? None of it.

The warden needs to slot the bear. The sorc can choose to slot their pets or not. There is a huge difference between the two.

CC and 15k burst aren't useful?? What game are you playing. The Bear also telegraphs which is also highly useful, running to the next mob spam point or chasing a cloaked NB for an extra second.

By the way 15k bust is non-cnit in Cryodiil. its 40-50k crit outside and 50-100 k crit exicute

If you are slotting the bear over dbos or tree ulti you are simply doing it wrong.

in PvE at least, as a dps, you shouldnt need to slot trees.
Dawnbreaker + ballista is a good combo, but the bear will give you more sustained damage and access to an execute.

Maura_Neysa

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

It's no more or less broken than sorc pets are.

disagree... the sorc pets actually do useful things.. heal, AOE, etc. Must say, I'm a little disappointed in the sleepy bear

So does the Bear, he CCs and he 15k instant damage in Cryodiil. He A a 75% execute (if you manage to land him)

And how much of that is useful in PvE? Or even Cyrodiil PvP? None of it.

The warden needs to slot the bear. The sorc can choose to slot their pets or not. There is a huge difference between the two.

CC and 15k burst aren't useful?? What game are you playing. The Bear also telegraphs which is also highly useful, running to the next mob spam point or chasing a cloaked NB for an extra second.

By the way 15k bust is non-cnit in Cryodiil. its 40-50k crit outside and 50-100 k crit exicute

If you are slotting the bear over dbos or tree ulti you are simply doing it wrong.

Actually if you are running DBOS over Flawless you are doing something wrong. You're stamina and already have CC. Flawless at least gives you more weapon damage for having it slotted. Otherwise you are trading 10k instant damage for 5k instant and 5 DoT and 1% extra damage for having Fights Guild slotted over Animal Companion. Even if you happen to be attacking a Were/Vamp that's still 10k instant vs 7k instant damage.
Personally I run Flawless and Spell Wall in PvP and the Bear in PvE

Maura_Neysa

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

As a warden tank I'm on the fence here. They removed my access to an aoe major breach and fracture, which is a big deal imo, but they also made arctic wind a good tank self heal which kinda counters things.

I'm very disappointed to see no changes to swarm or bird of prey though.

wait, they got rid of the breach and fracture!?

Welp, i might as well just delete my warden tank right now. I thought, yay, i had a viable end game magicka tank with frost staff. and this literally just smashed that.

Is the debuf added to anything else, or was it just nerf no give?

Sub Assult will still give Major Fracture
Fissure will now give Major Breach and won’t stun anymore.
I’ve been working on a Frost tank for a while. 2x Frost I haven’t found. S&B/Frost though is absolute viable though.

I lost breech on my sub assault... I'm less than happy at the NERF. Call it what is is.

Sub Assult is a tank nerf. A rare tank build, but a nerf.
Sub Assult is a nothing changed on a DPS build.
Deep Fissure in PvP is an unknown. Will Breach be worth as much as stun? Only actual test will answer this.
Deep Fissure is a PvE buff. Breach is worth way more in PvE where the stun was screwing tanks over when chain / gating

I don't need testing to know that major breach isn't going to out weigh the extra damage, shield size, and sustain I gain from inner light which I'll have to drop in favor of another cc. It will also force me to cast another skill during my burst combo that will cost me extra magic. If I replace force pulse or cliff racer with a cc, I will lose a large chunk of my burst damage.

Frame it however you want, but this is a massive nerf to magwardens in pvp. It's the crystal frag and blazing spear nerf all over again.

Wow, you are missing the point. Forget the CC all together, its nice but not nessasary. An extra 10% damage out of your burst will be very nice. You will have to work a little harder to catch them off guard instead of just forcing them off guard. Sub->Flawless->Reverse works amazingly. Sub->Snipe->Dive works amazingly. Neither combo has a stun or snare. Fissure->Screaming->Force or Asylum = Force->Fissure->Force->Screaming->Force->(Root/Burning/Off Balance)All 3 land.
Yeah its a nerf if you refuse to adapt

JackSmirkingRevenge

So much discussion about pvp...I guess because the only warden players pvp since it's an abysmal class in pve....take a hint zos?

MLGProPlayer

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

It's no more or less broken than sorc pets are.

disagree... the sorc pets actually do useful things.. heal, AOE, etc. Must say, I'm a little disappointed in the sleepy bear

So does the Bear, he CCs and he 15k instant damage in Cryodiil. He A a 75% execute (if you manage to land him)

And how much of that is useful in PvE? Or even Cyrodiil PvP? None of it.

The warden needs to slot the bear. The sorc can choose to slot their pets or not. There is a huge difference between the two.

CC and 15k burst aren't useful?? What game are you playing. The Bear also telegraphs which is also highly useful, running to the next mob spam point or chasing a cloaked NB for an extra second.

By the way 15k bust is non-cnit in Cryodiil. its 40-50k crit outside and 50-100 k crit exicute

15k burst and CC has no use in PvE when your sustained DPS is still lower than any other class and the ability is single target damage (magicka DD needs an AOE ult in PvE or they're useless since stamina will got you 10-15k more single target DPS). Arguing otherwise shows you have no understanding of game mechanics.

Bear is useless in any zerg scenario in Cyrodiil, where again, AOE reigns supreme (and bear just gets annihilated in all the spam).

Maura_Neysa

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

It's no more or less broken than sorc pets are.

disagree... the sorc pets actually do useful things.. heal, AOE, etc. Must say, I'm a little disappointed in the sleepy bear

So does the Bear, he CCs and he 15k instant damage in Cryodiil. He A a 75% execute (if you manage to land him)

And how much of that is useful in PvE? Or even Cyrodiil PvP? None of it.

The warden needs to slot the bear. The sorc can choose to slot their pets or not. There is a huge difference between the two.

CC and 15k burst aren't useful?? What game are you playing. The Bear also telegraphs which is also highly useful, running to the next mob spam point or chasing a cloaked NB for an extra second.

By the way 15k bust is non-cnit in Cryodiil. its 40-50k crit outside and 50-100 k crit exicute

15k burst and CC has no use in PvE when your sustained DPS is still lower than any other class and the ability is single target damage (magicka DD needs an AOE ult in PvE or they're useless since stamina will got you 10-15k more single target DPS). Arguing otherwise shows you have no understanding of game mechanics.

Bear is useless in any zerg scenario in Cyrodiil, where again, AOE reigns supreme (and bear just gets annihilated in all the spam).

How have you not picked up on these points yet
- StamDen - 50k Solo parse. 2nd highest behind only StamBlade. Using the Bear.
- MagDen - Bear = Major Slayer for 2 others. MagDens strength isnt its solo DPS. Its strenght is that you of buffing some other DPS but 15% & 10% Crit.

Yes if you are a Zerging the Bear sucks. Then again if you are a Zergling, just stand in the back and spam you birds. Don't be a zergling

MLGProPlayer

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

It's no more or less broken than sorc pets are.

disagree... the sorc pets actually do useful things.. heal, AOE, etc. Must say, I'm a little disappointed in the sleepy bear

So does the Bear, he CCs and he 15k instant damage in Cryodiil. He A a 75% execute (if you manage to land him)

And how much of that is useful in PvE? Or even Cyrodiil PvP? None of it.

The warden needs to slot the bear. The sorc can choose to slot their pets or not. There is a huge difference between the two.

CC and 15k burst aren't useful?? What game are you playing. The Bear also telegraphs which is also highly useful, running to the next mob spam point or chasing a cloaked NB for an extra second.

By the way 15k bust is non-cnit in Cryodiil. its 40-50k crit outside and 50-100 k crit exicute

15k burst and CC has no use in PvE when your sustained DPS is still lower than any other class and the ability is single target damage (magicka DD needs an AOE ult in PvE or they're useless since stamina will got you 10-15k more single target DPS). Arguing otherwise shows you have no understanding of game mechanics.

Bear is useless in any zerg scenario in Cyrodiil, where again, AOE reigns supreme (and bear just gets annihilated in all the spam).

How have you not picked up on these points yet
- StamDen - 50k Solo parse. 2nd highest behind only StamBlade. Using the Bear.
- MagDen - Bear = Major Slayer for 2 others. MagDens strength isnt its solo DPS. Its strenght is that you of buffing some other DPS but 15% & 10% Crit.

Yes if you are a Zerging the Bear sucks. Then again if you are a Zergling, just stand in the back and spam you birds. Don't be a zergling

That's the whole point. Magden's DPS is abysmally low, which is inexcusable. 33-34K DPS parse without the bear is a sick joke. 38k with the bear is STILL lower than most other magicka DPS classes, and it's single target damage, which is undesirable in PvE for a magicka DD. Magicka wardens need a major buff to DPS. That isn't something that can be debated against.

MinarasLaure

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Guys you can ask for single bar bear all you want, it will never happen for the same reason sorcerer pets will never be single bar.

Use your heads; the bear dishes out 5k dps on its own, would you give a permanent 5k damage over time skill to any other class? Being a double bar ability is only thing keeping the bear balanced. If it were to be made single bar, it would probably get changed to a 20 second or less duration, and none of us wants to have to recast it that often.

Sorc pets are not ultimates.
I'd be more than happy to slot one bear per bar if it wasn't an ultimate.

Seraphayel

Skander wrote: »

Warden needed an ice spammable, that dealt dmg. Idk, an ice javeling.



We have a class that without a skill (bugs) can't deal dmg

Warden overall just needs more Frost skills and passives that benefit them chilling a target and using Frost spells on them.

Make Cliffracer Frost damage. Give the Bear a Frost damage execute. Maybe give the Swarm a Frost danage component. Make Arctic Wind something better for DPS and for god's sake increase the buff duration on Bird of Prey.

Qbiken

For the support/healing build that I´m running at the moment, the changes are quite a buff for me aside from the cost-increase to shimmering shield.

xbobx

usmcjdking wrote: »

Magden is in the same boat Mag DK is in.

Too much unneeded utility. On paper for traditional MMO raid layouts warden and DK have an amazing toolkit.

This toolkit is however rendered useless because it's either taken care of by a tank or ignored by stacked destruction ultimates. Neither Warden nor Mag DK have relevant jobs for their skills in trials anymore with exception of the twins in VMOL. This is not a balance issue, this is a game design issue.

utility jobs have always been an issue in MMOs and i think the community is to blame more than the developers. Many mmo players only think black or white. You are either meta or you are nothing, you are either a tank, a dps or a healer there is no inbetween.

Well i know that is bs. I have mentioned this many of times on here but I have gone into many vet dungeons to wipe over and over again only to easily breeze through it by changing a couple skills on my magden to adapt to the content.

for some reason that concept is very hard for many mmo players to understand.

Thraben

Support Wardens in PvP can rejoice.

They are already the only class that can take care of all three support roles in a good PvP group (Rapid, Purge, Heal) with the same skill setup, but even mediocre Wardens will be able to to so with the Psijic Skill "Meditate", because "Nature´s Embrace" will allow you to gap close to your group after you´ve refilled your ressorces.

A warden thus becomes the most critical small to medium scale PvP group class, if played well enough.

xbobx

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

Their changes to assault kind of shows them their mentality.

They kept major fracture on the stamina build and took off major breach and put it on the magic morph.

its interesting because that tells me they dont care about the group affect of the skill only that it benefits the warden with their current build.

now i know you hate the no stun, but will major breach not help the damage of magden if you are running solo content?

Maybe solo pve, but not solo pvp. I'll take the stun everyday and twice on Sunday. I don't need extra damage.

It doesn't actually add extra damage in PvE since every group has 100% uptime on major breach anyway. It's s such a ridiculous change for both PvP and PvE.

thats why i said solo, its as if they see it as a solo job and not a group

Maulkin

In my opinion.

- Keep the CC as it's extremely effective in PvP. CC'ing people through dodge in particular is almost necessary
- Add Minor Breach to the skill
- Remove Minor Breach from Templar PotL, let it keep Minor Fracture of course.

PvE builds get a buff and a reason to run a MagWarden in raids as nothing else other than PotL grans Minor Breach.
PvP builds get a buff with a bit more penetration, which the class needs since the nerf to birds.
Stamplar is entirely unaffected by this change.

SanTii.92

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

It's no more or less broken than sorc pets are.

disagree... the sorc pets actually do useful things.. heal, AOE, etc. Must say, I'm a little disappointed in the sleepy bear

So does the Bear, he CCs and he 15k instant damage in Cryodiil. He A a 75% execute (if you manage to land him)

And how much of that is useful in PvE? Or even Cyrodiil PvP? None of it.

The warden needs to slot the bear. The sorc can choose to slot their pets or not. There is a huge difference between the two.

CC and 15k burst aren't useful?? What game are you playing. The Bear also telegraphs which is also highly useful, running to the next mob spam point or chasing a cloaked NB for an extra second.

By the way 15k bust is non-cnit in Cryodiil. its 40-50k crit outside and 50-100 k crit exicute

If you are slotting the bear over dbos or tree ulti you are simply doing it wrong.

Actually if you are running DBOS over Flawless you are doing something wrong. You're stamina and already have CC. Flawless at least gives you more weapon damage for having it slotted. Otherwise you are trading 10k instant damage for 5k instant and 5 DoT and 1% extra damage for having Fights Guild slotted over Animal Companion. Even if you happen to be attacking a Were/Vamp that's still 10k instant vs 7k instant damage.
Personally I run Flawless and Spell Wall in PvP and the Bear in PvE

lol

f047ys3v3n

I didn't really thing magdens needed a PVP nerf. Now swardens, that is another story, but that has mostly to do with the OPness of stam in PVP combined with the few weaknesses most stam toons have not effecting swardens.

MLGProPlayer

With today's news that warden is being added to the base game, ZOS literally has no excuses left to not buff the class.

"We can't buff wardens in PvE because they're already strong in PvP" - They've now been nerfed into the ground in PvP so this excuse goes out the window.

"We can't make warden competitive with other classes because we don't want to be accused of P2W" - Warden is being added to the base game with Summerset so this excuse is gone too.

You literally have no way left to weasel out of buffing them anynore. So let's go @ZOS_Wrobel !! I will be severely disappointed if warden does not recieve significant DPS buffs in the next few weeks.

MLGProPlayer

Another way to reconcile low warden DPS is to give the class more buffs. A magicka warden dealing 38k single target damage is useless. But if wardens had some buffs to apply to teammates, they could have a use in group content. Unfortunately, none of the warden's DPS agilities apply buffs to teammates.