Let's talk about Warden (Summerset edition)

Joy_Division

Waffennacht wrote: »

So coming from Mag Warden perspective.

I @#$_&ing hated that stun. It didn't help me land my burst, because I had to land my burst to stun, and with delayed abilities nor execute it was very difficult to take advantage of the stun. So I had to slot a hard CC to compensate. Well again, I want my stun coming before the land my burst, or after to prevent their recovery during my delays, but if shalk stunned and they CC break immediately, well now they have immunity while the bird or pulse tried to finish them.

Removing the stun gives me complete control when I CC, because I already established a need for a different hard CC for myself.

Giving the ability major breach is actually awesome for PvP, while we already had access via Destro well now it's an AoE debuff and helps my whole team. (Also doesn't mess up their CCs such as Eclipse)

Though everything changes

Maybe if the class had some other CC, its damage abilities weren't so easily avoidable and did something besides damage, had some form of soft CC that didn't required speccing into health, I could be motivated to lose a stun just to get a generic debuff that's I'd rather get from elemental Drain because of the magicka steal debuff.

Class offers nothing interesting except Shimmering Shield. It's so bland it even makes my Templar seem exciting.

Nemesis7884

i was really surprised not to see any buffs to warden...maybe they are affraid people will scream pay to win if its not slighly underperforming other classes?

The change to assault...well not sure if its that useful....its purely for solo purposes because within a group environment you'd want to have both - fracture and breach...unless of course ZOS wants to kill off stamina and everyone just going magicka in the future

FrostFallFox

I love the natures grasp skill, the buff is nice.

MLGProPlayer

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

i was really surprised not to see any buffs to warden...maybe they are affraid people will scream pay to win if its not slighly underperforming other classes?

It's more than slightly underperforming.

Vapirko

We've not gotten official patch notes yet. Lest hold on, theres a lot of crappy changes, but lets at least get an official patch note before we lose it.

MLGProPlayer

Vapirko wrote: »

We've not gotten official patch notes yet. Lest hold on, theres a lot of crappy changes, but lets at least get an official patch note before we lose it.

It's better to voice your displeasure early so they realize they are going down the wrong path before it's too late.

red_emu

Stamina Scrolls Online... thank you ZOS. My favorite class is now only good for overland content. No CC, no execute, no nothing. Thanks! I'll go type DELETE and hit 'Confirm' now.

If you really wanted this game to be all about weapons and stamina, why did you introduce magicka at all? For RP reasons?

And don't get me started with the whole 'Yeeeez, game isn't out yet, chill' or 'We haven't seen it on PTS yet' or 'You're just a hater, I will enjoy not being able to play MagWarden because I mained 7 Stamblades for 4 years' or 'Lol, L2P noob'...

...no

...just no

Anytime ZOS has hinted on a nerf in the past it ALWAYS makes it into the final product. Buffs to anything usually get halved, but nerfs are something that remains from the moment they hint at it. Community hates it? 'Great!' says Wrobel. ZOS potato servers are powered by hate, disappointment and tears of the playerbase.

Maura_Neysa

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I definitely like the changes to arctic wind/morphs. I've been saying since morrowind beta that 10% up front + 10% over time is not even close to sufficient for a tank's emergency self heal. I'm hoping that when they said it was being increased by 20% that they mean it'll be 30% of your max health + 10% over time, and not just 20% max health + 10% over time. 30% would put it on par with the new dark cloak, clannfear heal, and dragon's blood (in dire cases).

I'm a little disappointed they increased the cost of shimmering shield. I think it would have been a better fix to remove or reduce the magicka return on absorbed projectiles, instead of increasing the cost of the skill overall. This just makes it harder to use for tanks, who are the ones that need it most. They should reduce the cost and just remove the magicka return, it's a convoluted ability at this point.

The changes to swinging vines wont really make them any more used by anyone, IMO - healers or otherwise. The ability itself needs to be entirely reworked, the targeting is terrible,t he healing amount is terrible, and there are other ways to generate ultimate. I'd much rather see this used as a gap closer (self pull to enemy) for at least one morph to help out the damage builds for warden, and have the other morph act more like guard or something, linking you to a player. It'd be really cool if it linked you to one other player (like guard), had a longer range (28m or so), and 'shared' all healing received between the two. That'd make it better for healers to use when cast on tanks, and tanks could cast it on healers or dps to share healing with them for survival (especially with a new 30% max hp heal on the tank).

Bird of prey still needs to be looked at, the 10 second duration is completely insufficient for damage dealers - nightblades have basically the same ability and it lasts for 20 seconds and has a massive burst damage added in that can be cast up to 3 times per activation. Having this thing stuck at 10 seconds is pathetic.

Swarm, fetcher infection, and growing swarm all need to be looked at as well. Swarm's damage is pretty pitiful as far as DoTs go. Fetcher infection really should be a stamina morph, dealing disease damage over time - the current functionality of increased damage on every other cast is fine IMO, though a little uninspired. Growing swarm is terrible, and should be a ground cast aoe that gains radius and damage over time not unlike hurricane, such would befit the name and the playstyle of wardens far more appropriately than the piece of shalk dung it is right now.

There is no way Arctic is getting a 30% buff over all. DK GDB does 33% of missing. It has a price for being that good. The way I read it was only that only the initial heal is getting buffed. I have been using Arctic since Morrowind, honestly a little surprised its getting buffed. Maybe it will strong enough to survive The Warrior HA without the healer now.

Growing Swarm isn't such a stellar damage skill because its ridiculous survivability skill. You can’t have both survival and damage.

Shimmering, meh only use that in Maelstrom anyway. So I’ll leave this one to those that use it more.

Bird of Prey leave it at 10 or jump to 20. 10 is better than some screw ball number messing with Warden rotation even more. 20 seconds of Major Expedition would be pretty excessive though.

Nature’s Grasp, I agree that they have done nothing to make this any more viable then it already was. Just a Gimmick and tool for PvP tanking, to get to the front line.

xbobx

would if they removed the current ultimate attack the bear does and create an more powerful AOE attack or attack that grants bonus damage to you or something.

Jade1986

Lynx7386 wrote: »

As a warden tank I'm on the fence here. They removed my access to an aoe major breach and fracture, which is a big deal imo, but they also made arctic wind a good tank self heal which kinda counters things.

I'm very disappointed to see no changes to swarm or bird of prey though.

wait, they got rid of the breach and fracture!?

Welp, i might as well just delete my warden tank right now. I thought, yay, i had a viable end game magicka tank with frost staff. and this literally just smashed that.

Is the debuf added to anything else, or was it just nerf no give?

Nemesis7884

i love the theme of the warden...but it just lacks some stand out mechanic that wants me want to play it and build a themed build around it....

honestly without the aoe breach fracture ice staff tanking is dead and so is my need to play a warden tank...

xbobx

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

i love the theme of the warden...but it just lacks some stand out mechanic that wants me want to play it and build a themed build around it....

honestly without the aoe breach fracture ice staff tanking is dead and so is my need to play a warden tank...

i dont think they did. they got rid of the stun

xbobx

the arctic wind change.

They said increase initial heal by 20%.

well that puts it to 12% of your health. it still kind of sucks.

or is that supposed to be 20percent of your health, then add the next 10 percent over time. This would put it in line with all the other heal skills like this.

MLGProPlayer

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

i love the theme of the warden...but it just lacks some stand out mechanic that wants me want to play it and build a themed build around it....

That's just it. ZOS doesn't seem to want you to play warden.

xbobx

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

We've not gotten official patch notes yet. Lest hold on, theres a lot of crappy changes, but lets at least get an official patch note before we lose it.

It's better to voice your displeasure early so they realize they are going down the wrong path before it's too late.

they will ignore you.

MMOs its always the same thing. Class changes get made, everyone freaks out about their favourite class as if the sky is falling. So, boy - wolf etc, they will ignore you.

If you want to complain, blame those testers there for not saying anything, or at least have them come forward and tell us they did say something.

MLGProPlayer

xbobx wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

We've not gotten official patch notes yet. Lest hold on, theres a lot of crappy changes, but lets at least get an official patch note before we lose it.

It's better to voice your displeasure early so they realize they are going down the wrong path before it's too late.

they will ignore you.

MMOs its always the same thing. Class changes get made, everyone freaks out about their favourite class as if the sky is falling. So, boy - wolf etc, they will ignore you.

If you want to complain, blame those testers there for not saying anything, or at least have them come forward and tell us they did say something.

The problem with the warden class is that it has been the worst DPS class in the game since it launched. This patch was supposed to fix it, according to Wrobel. Instead, they literally changed nothing (just a PvP nerf and zero PvE buffs). We're past the point of "the sky is falling" because there was never any sky to fall. Wardens have been in a deep, dark hole ever since launch. ZOS has shown zero interest in fixing them.

Waffennacht

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

We've not gotten official patch notes yet. Lest hold on, theres a lot of crappy changes, but lets at least get an official patch note before we lose it.

It's better to voice your displeasure early so they realize they are going down the wrong path before it's too late.

they will ignore you.

MMOs its always the same thing. Class changes get made, everyone freaks out about their favourite class as if the sky is falling. So, boy - wolf etc, they will ignore you.

If you want to complain, blame those testers there for not saying anything, or at least have them come forward and tell us they did say something.

The problem with the warden class is that it has been the worst DPS class in the game since it launched. This patch was supposed to fix it, according to Wrobel. Instead, they literally changed nothing (just a PvP nerf and zero PvE buffs). We're past the point "the sky is falling" because there was never any sky to fall. Wardens have been in a deep, dark hole ever since launch.

Thus far. Hell the bird change didn't happen until the 3rd or 4th PTS update

QuebraRegra

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

FrostFallFox wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

FrostFallFox wrote: »

Wtffff. They took away the stun and what are they adding?

Major Breach debuff

Wowwwww, not even minor breech which would be kind of nice in trials. If anybody lets a Warden in their trial...

Joy_Division wrote: »

I'm totally excited about going to PvP on a class with no CC, damage abilities that have no secondary functions, no execute, and easily avoidable damage.

At this point, Wrobel has to be trolling us.

He's been doing that for years... and not just with WARDENS

Maura_Neysa

Jade1986 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

As a warden tank I'm on the fence here. They removed my access to an aoe major breach and fracture, which is a big deal imo, but they also made arctic wind a good tank self heal which kinda counters things.

I'm very disappointed to see no changes to swarm or bird of prey though.

wait, they got rid of the breach and fracture!?

Welp, i might as well just delete my warden tank right now. I thought, yay, i had a viable end game magicka tank with frost staff. and this literally just smashed that.

Is the debuf added to anything else, or was it just nerf no give?

Sub Assult will still give Major Fracture
Fissure will now give Major Breach and won’t stun anymore.
I’ve been working on a Frost tank for a while. 2x Frost I haven’t found. S&B/Frost though is absolute viable though.

Maura_Neysa

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

i love the theme of the warden...but it just lacks some stand out mechanic that wants me want to play it and build a themed build around it....

honestly without the aoe breach fracture ice staff tanking is dead and so is my need to play a warden tank...

You realize in order to Ice Staff tank, you have to have a Destro skill slotted. Only 3 skills have any value, Blockade, Crushing, and Ele Drain. You have access and have to slot another Major Breach anyway.
I replace Blockade with Crushing on the 2 fights a ranged interupt has value; Khephidaen the Spiderkith and Yokeda Kai

Silver_Strider

I don't main Warden but I do have a few suggestions. No Bear comment as I'm clueless on how to improve it.

Cliff Racer:
Screaming Cliff Racer - Up the extra Damage for this skill from 15% to 20%.
Cutting Cliff Racer - Add Empower (It's getting changed to only buff Light Attacks anyway so it'll be an ever so slight buff but better than nothing)

Scorch - Stun added to base skill
Subterranean Assault - Major Fracture for 15 seconds.
Deep Fissure - Major Breech for 15 seconds

Swarm - Raise base damage by 10%
Fletcher Infection - Remove 1 positive effect from Target on top of extra damage on subsequent casts
Growing Swarm - Reworked into a Stamina ability that deals Disease Damage with its current effect unchanged.

Falcon's Swiftness - Minor Berserk added to base effect and duration increased to 15 seconds but Major Endurance removed
Deceptive Predator - Keeps current effect with Major Endurance returned
Birds of Prey - Increase Damage of next Animal Companion ability cast.

Sleet Storm:
Northern Storm - Reduced Cost

Impaling Shard:
Winter's Revenge - Minor Breech added.

Take from it what you will, some people will disagree with some of these suggestions because it'll boost their PvP performance but hey, I tried.

MLGProPlayer

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I don't main Warden but I do have a few suggestions. No Bear comment as I'm clueless on how to improve it.

Cliff Racer:
Screaming Cliff Racer - Up the extra Damage for this skill from 15% to 20%.
Cutting Cliff Racer - Add Empower (It's getting changed to only buff Light Attacks anyway so it'll be an ever so slight buff but better than nothing)

Scorch - Stun added to base skill
Subterranean Assault - Major Fracture for 15 seconds.
Deep Fissure - Major Breech for 15 seconds

Swarm - Raise base damage by 10%
Fletcher Infection - Remove 1 positive effect from Target on top of extra damage on subsequent casts
Growing Swarm - Reworked into a Stamina ability that deals Disease Damage with its current effect unchanged.

Falcon's Swiftness - Minor Berserk added to base effect and duration increased to 15 seconds but Major Endurance removed
Deceptive Predator - Keeps current effect with Major Endurance returned
Birds of Prey - Increase Damage of next Animal Companion ability cast.

Sleet Storm:
Northern Storm - Reduced Cost

Impaling Shard:
Winter's Revenge - Minor Breech added.

Take from it what you will, some people will disagree with some of these suggestions because it'll boost their PvP performance but hey, I tried.

That's exactly what the warden needs. They are underperforming because their base damage values are incredibly low.

Another suggestion is to improve the efficacy of their passives, such as Advanced Species, which currently boosts damage by a measly 2% for every Animal Companions ability you have slotted. Bringing that up to something like 3 or 4% would provide meaningful gains and be incredibly easy to re-balance later on as needed.

The easiest fix to the bear would be to make it a single-bar ability. The bear is currently a necessity in every warden build because their DPS is simply too low without it (it's too low even with the bear, but it's in "insta kick" territory without it). Having it be a single bar ability would allow wardens to equip the much more useful destruction staff ultimate as well. This would be balanced because the ult generation would be split between both abilities, thus bear DPS would go down as you wouldn't be able to spam its active as often (as you'd be casting destro ult from the same resource pool).

None of this would really make them OP in PvP because they lost both things that made them strong there in the first place (undodgeable cliff racer and stun on the shalks). The class is quite weak now with no CC or DPS-oriented utility, such that increasing their damage values would have no impact on PvP performance.

It's such an easy class to balance. There is just no willpower from ZOS.

Maura_Neysa

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I don't main Warden but I do have a few suggestions. No Bear comment as I'm clueless on how to improve it.

Cliff Racer:
Screaming Cliff Racer - Up the extra Damage for this skill from 15% to 20%.
Cutting Cliff Racer - Add Empower (It's getting changed to only buff Light Attacks anyway so it'll be an ever so slight buff but better than nothing) I could see this. After making it dodgable, this would be a PvE buff mostly

Scorch - Stun added to base skill
Subterranean Assault - Major Fracture for 15 seconds. I dont think PvP would be too happy with Stamden getting a Stun. Otherwise I could see this
Deep Fissure - Major Breech for 15 seconds

Swarm - Raise base damage by 10%
Fletcher Infection - Remove 1 positive effect from Target on top of extra damage on subsequent casts
Growing Swarm - Reworked into a Stamina ability that deals Disease Damage with its current effect unchanged. All I'll say here is, StamDen is the 2nd hardest hitting class, why are people so set on adding another skill? As the skill is, your choosing between about 1k extra DPS single target vs 3k DPS AoE. While this skill could use something, I'm not sure this is that something

Falcon's Swiftness - Minor Berserk added to base effect and duration increased to 15 seconds but Major Endurance removed
Deceptive Predator - Keeps current effect with Major Endurance returned So now Deceptive gets Minor Berserk and Minor Evasion? I mean I would love this, but Major Expedition, Major Endurance, Minor Berserk, and Minor Evasion all from one skill? That seems like a lot.
Birds of Prey - Increase Damage of next Animal Companion ability cast.

Sleet Storm:
Northern Storm - Reduced Cost Not sure why this, I mean the reason for this skill is the passive for slotting, otherwise Elemental Rage out performs in every way.

Impaling Shard:
Winter's Revenge - Minor Breech added. Frost Damage already applies Minor Maim, plus Winter's Revenge out DPS Elemental Blockade. I'd say this is the Golden Skill that all other Warden Skills should be balanced against.

Take from it what you will, some people will disagree with some of these suggestions because it'll boost their PvP performance but hey, I tried. With enough discussion, maybe ZoS will pull together something that works.

Above Warden is my favorite class, and the one I main. I do think they need some help. However they are very strong in a lot of respects too. I dont want to see the DK/Templar nerf train hit Warden as hard as it has those two class. I think because of the Wardens high burst capability, this is all close. Especially if a Warden buff is implemented wrong.

The Warden has received Several buffs already, all of which have been very good
• Deceptive Predator - up to 14sec from 10sec
• Frozen Device - Can lay 3 down up from 1 (also got nerfed in that the spawn is visible)
• Nature's Grasp - Travel time speed up by 100%
• Nature's Grasp - Ranged increased to 28m from 22m
• Feral Guardian - 8 sec CC/root Immunity when activating the Ulti

I'd rather see baby steps, and not have ZoS over shoot.

Silver_Strider

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I don't main Warden but I do have a few suggestions. No Bear comment as I'm clueless on how to improve it.

Cliff Racer:
Screaming Cliff Racer - Up the extra Damage for this skill from 15% to 20%.
Cutting Cliff Racer - Add Empower (It's getting changed to only buff Light Attacks anyway so it'll be an ever so slight buff but better than nothing) I could see this. After making it dodgable, this would be a PvE buff mostly

Scorch - Stun added to base skill
Subterranean Assault - Major Fracture for 15 seconds. I dont think PvP would be too happy with Stamden getting a Stun. Otherwise I could see this
Deep Fissure - Major Breech for 15 seconds

Swarm - Raise base damage by 10%
Fletcher Infection - Remove 1 positive effect from Target on top of extra damage on subsequent casts
Growing Swarm - Reworked into a Stamina ability that deals Disease Damage with its current effect unchanged. All I'll say here is, StamDen is the 2nd hardest hitting class, why are people so set on adding another skill? As the skill is, your choosing between about 1k extra DPS single target vs 3k DPS AoE. While this skill could use something, I'm not sure this is that something

Falcon's Swiftness - Minor Berserk added to base effect and duration increased to 15 seconds but Major Endurance removed
Deceptive Predator - Keeps current effect with Major Endurance returned So now Deceptive gets Minor Berserk and Minor Evasion? I mean I would love this, but Major Expedition, Major Endurance, Minor Berserk, and Minor Evasion all from one skill? That seems like a lot.
Birds of Prey - Increase Damage of next Animal Companion ability cast.

Sleet Storm:
Northern Storm - Reduced Cost Not sure why this, I mean the reason for this skill is the passive for slotting, otherwise Elemental Rage out performs in every way.

Impaling Shard:
Winter's Revenge - Minor Breech added. Frost Damage already applies Minor Maim, plus Winter's Revenge out DPS Elemental Blockade. I'd say this is the Golden Skill that all other Warden Skills should be balanced against.

Take from it what you will, some people will disagree with some of these suggestions because it'll boost their PvP performance but hey, I tried. With enough discussion, maybe ZoS will pull together something that works.

Above Warden is my favorite class, and the one I main. I do think they need some help. However they are very strong in a lot of respects too. I dont want to see the DK/Templar nerf train hit Warden as hard as it has those two class. I think because of the Wardens high burst capability, this is all close. Especially if a Warden buff is implemented wrong.

The Warden has received Several buffs already, all of which have been very good
• Deceptive Predator - up to 14sec from 10sec
• Frozen Device - Can lay 3 down up from 1 (also got nerfed in that the spawn is visible)
• Nature's Grasp - Travel time speed up by 100%
• Nature's Grasp - Ranged increased to 28m from 22m
• Feral Guardian - 8 sec CC/root Immunity when activating the Ulti

I'd rather see baby steps, and not have ZoS over shoot.

Well, the reason for some of my suggestions is to help Warden as a whole instead of focusing on just the DPS aspects of it.

With Shalks being changed to only provide Fracture or Breech it's going to hurt Warden Tanks as well as Magden that I feel adding the stun to the base skill is a decent compromise to make it at least an option to Warden Tanks as well as Magden/Stamden. If it's that big a deal breaker, change the stamina shalks to lose the stun for a snare instead.

Its the same argument that Stamblade use to try and get Debilitate to be changed into a Stamina DoT. Burst means very little in PvE content, with some exceptions, and Stamden's sustain damage is absolutely pitiful that it really needs the help. DoTs are meh in PvP generally so I don't see this as a huge improvement for Stamden, just one that would help them be slightly better for PvE.

I view Falcon's Swiftness as a generally meh skill. Berserk is needed to make it attractive at all, whereas Endurance is just a throw away buff easily acquired via pots and negligible in the grand scheme of things. Birds of Prey will still be the go to morph as extra Damage to an Animal Companion ability is far and away more useful than Minor Evasion, even with the Major Endurance thrown in to sweeten the deal a little.

The reason for Northern Storm cost reduction is that, as you say, the Destro Ultimate is stronger. It makes very little sense for Northern Storm to cost so much when for just 50 more Ultimate, you can get better results with E-Storm, especially when Warden has Ultimate regen that can rival NBs that 50 extra Ultimate is a drop in the bucket for them.

Also, Minor BREECH, not maim gets added to Winter's Revenge. As you say, it's the gold standard for Magden but very few use it for whatever reason. This would give both an incentive to use it as with Breech, they'll get more damage to the rest of their skills and extra group utility (if a Templar isn't present for Power of the Light)

xbobx

red_emu wrote: »

Stamina Scrolls Online... thank you ZOS. My favorite class is now only good for overland content. No CC, no execute, no nothing. Thanks! I'll go type DELETE and hit 'Confirm' now.

If you really wanted this game to be all about weapons and stamina, why did you introduce magicka at all? For RP reasons?

And don't get me started with the whole 'Yeeeez, game isn't out yet, chill' or 'We haven't seen it on PTS yet' or 'You're just a hater, I will enjoy not being able to play MagWarden because I mained 7 Stamblades for 4 years' or 'Lol, L2P noob'...

...no

...just no

Anytime ZOS has hinted on a nerf in the past it ALWAYS makes it into the final product. Buffs to anything usually get halved, but nerfs are something that remains from the moment they hint at it. Community hates it? 'Great!' says Wrobel. ZOS potato servers are powered by hate, disappointment and tears of the playerbase.

i suggest you seek therapy. You are taking this way too hard

Maura_Neysa

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I don't main Warden but I do have a few suggestions. No Bear comment as I'm clueless on how to improve it.

Cliff Racer:
Screaming Cliff Racer - Up the extra Damage for this skill from 15% to 20%.
Cutting Cliff Racer - Add Empower (It's getting changed to only buff Light Attacks anyway so it'll be an ever so slight buff but better than nothing) I could see this. After making it dodgable, this would be a PvE buff mostly

Scorch - Stun added to base skill
Subterranean Assault - Major Fracture for 15 seconds. I dont think PvP would be too happy with Stamden getting a Stun. Otherwise I could see this
Deep Fissure - Major Breech for 15 seconds

Swarm - Raise base damage by 10%
Fletcher Infection - Remove 1 positive effect from Target on top of extra damage on subsequent casts
Growing Swarm - Reworked into a Stamina ability that deals Disease Damage with its current effect unchanged. All I'll say here is, StamDen is the 2nd hardest hitting class, why are people so set on adding another skill? As the skill is, your choosing between about 1k extra DPS single target vs 3k DPS AoE. While this skill could use something, I'm not sure this is that something

Falcon's Swiftness - Minor Berserk added to base effect and duration increased to 15 seconds but Major Endurance removed
Deceptive Predator - Keeps current effect with Major Endurance returned So now Deceptive gets Minor Berserk and Minor Evasion? I mean I would love this, but Major Expedition, Major Endurance, Minor Berserk, and Minor Evasion all from one skill? That seems like a lot.
Birds of Prey - Increase Damage of next Animal Companion ability cast.

Sleet Storm:
Northern Storm - Reduced Cost Not sure why this, I mean the reason for this skill is the passive for slotting, otherwise Elemental Rage out performs in every way.

Impaling Shard:
Winter's Revenge - Minor Breech added. Frost Damage already applies Minor Maim, plus Winter's Revenge out DPS Elemental Blockade. I'd say this is the Golden Skill that all other Warden Skills should be balanced against.

Take from it what you will, some people will disagree with some of these suggestions because it'll boost their PvP performance but hey, I tried. With enough discussion, maybe ZoS will pull together something that works.

Above Warden is my favorite class, and the one I main. I do think they need some help. However they are very strong in a lot of respects too. I dont want to see the DK/Templar nerf train hit Warden as hard as it has those two class. I think because of the Wardens high burst capability, this is all close. Especially if a Warden buff is implemented wrong.

The Warden has received Several buffs already, all of which have been very good
• Deceptive Predator - up to 14sec from 10sec
• Frozen Device - Can lay 3 down up from 1 (also got nerfed in that the spawn is visible)
• Nature's Grasp - Travel time speed up by 100%
• Nature's Grasp - Ranged increased to 28m from 22m
• Feral Guardian - 8 sec CC/root Immunity when activating the Ulti

I'd rather see baby steps, and not have ZoS over shoot.

Well, the reason for some of my suggestions is to help Warden as a whole instead of focusing on just the DPS aspects of it.

With Shalks being changed to only provide Fracture or Breech it's going to hurt Warden Tanks as well as Magden that I feel adding the stun to the base skill is a decent compromise to make it at least an option to Warden Tanks as well as Magden/Stamden. If it's that big a deal breaker, change the stamina shalks to lose the stun for a snare instead.

Its the same argument that Stamblade use to try and get Debilitate to be changed into a Stamina DoT. Burst means very little in PvE content, with some exceptions, and Stamden's sustain damage is absolutely pitiful that it really needs the help. DoTs are meh in PvP generally so I don't see this as a huge improvement for Stamden, just one that would help them be slightly better for PvE.

I view Falcon's Swiftness as a generally meh skill. Berserk is needed to make it attractive at all, whereas Endurance is just a throw away buff easily acquired via pots and negligible in the grand scheme of things. Birds of Prey will still be the go to morph as extra Damage to an Animal Companion ability is far and away more useful than Minor Evasion, even with the Major Endurance thrown in to sweeten the deal a little.

The reason for Northern Storm cost reduction is that, as you say, the Destro Ultimate is stronger. It makes very little sense for Northern Storm to cost so much when for just 50 more Ultimate, you can get better results with E-Storm, especially when Warden has Ultimate regen that can rival NBs that 50 extra Ultimate is a drop in the bucket for them.

Also, Minor BREECH, not maim gets added to Winter's Revenge. As you say, it's the gold standard for Magden but very few use it for whatever reason. This would give both an incentive to use it as with Breech, they'll get more damage to the rest of their skills and extra group utility (if a Templar isn't present for Power of the Light)

Warden tanks using Sub is not that common. Why waste 2 slots on skills when you can have it all in one. There are some builds of course.

Stamden is the second highest solo parse, they don't need help in DPS. They are also annoyingly survivable in PvP, they don't need more survivability.

Falcon, my only point is 4 buffs from one skill is a bit OP.

Northern, guess it can be tried. Maybe situationaly it would be useful. Most will still save for Storm.

All Frost has a chance to apply maim. Its Frosts Burning/ Off Balance. It would be an AoE version of a rare debuff though.

Lynx7386

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I don't main Warden but I do have a few suggestions. No Bear comment as I'm clueless on how to improve it.

Cliff Racer:
Screaming Cliff Racer - Up the extra Damage for this skill from 15% to 20%.
Cutting Cliff Racer - Add Empower (It's getting changed to only buff Light Attacks anyway so it'll be an ever so slight buff but better than nothing) I could see this. After making it dodgable, this would be a PvE buff mostly

Scorch - Stun added to base skill
Subterranean Assault - Major Fracture for 15 seconds. I dont think PvP would be too happy with Stamden getting a Stun. Otherwise I could see this
Deep Fissure - Major Breech for 15 seconds

Swarm - Raise base damage by 10%
Fletcher Infection - Remove 1 positive effect from Target on top of extra damage on subsequent casts
Growing Swarm - Reworked into a Stamina ability that deals Disease Damage with its current effect unchanged. All I'll say here is, StamDen is the 2nd hardest hitting class, why are people so set on adding another skill? As the skill is, your choosing between about 1k extra DPS single target vs 3k DPS AoE. While this skill could use something, I'm not sure this is that something

Falcon's Swiftness - Minor Berserk added to base effect and duration increased to 15 seconds but Major Endurance removed
Deceptive Predator - Keeps current effect with Major Endurance returned So now Deceptive gets Minor Berserk and Minor Evasion? I mean I would love this, but Major Expedition, Major Endurance, Minor Berserk, and Minor Evasion all from one skill? That seems like a lot.
Birds of Prey - Increase Damage of next Animal Companion ability cast.

Sleet Storm:
Northern Storm - Reduced Cost Not sure why this, I mean the reason for this skill is the passive for slotting, otherwise Elemental Rage out performs in every way.

Impaling Shard:
Winter's Revenge - Minor Breech added. Frost Damage already applies Minor Maim, plus Winter's Revenge out DPS Elemental Blockade. I'd say this is the Golden Skill that all other Warden Skills should be balanced against.

Take from it what you will, some people will disagree with some of these suggestions because it'll boost their PvP performance but hey, I tried. With enough discussion, maybe ZoS will pull together something that works.

Above Warden is my favorite class, and the one I main. I do think they need some help. However they are very strong in a lot of respects too. I dont want to see the DK/Templar nerf train hit Warden as hard as it has those two class. I think because of the Wardens high burst capability, this is all close. Especially if a Warden buff is implemented wrong.

The Warden has received Several buffs already, all of which have been very good
• Deceptive Predator - up to 14sec from 10sec
• Frozen Device - Can lay 3 down up from 1 (also got nerfed in that the spawn is visible)
• Nature's Grasp - Travel time speed up by 100%
• Nature's Grasp - Ranged increased to 28m from 22m
• Feral Guardian - 8 sec CC/root Immunity when activating the Ulti

I'd rather see baby steps, and not have ZoS over shoot.

Well, the reason for some of my suggestions is to help Warden as a whole instead of focusing on just the DPS aspects of it.

With Shalks being changed to only provide Fracture or Breech it's going to hurt Warden Tanks as well as Magden that I feel adding the stun to the base skill is a decent compromise to make it at least an option to Warden Tanks as well as Magden/Stamden. If it's that big a deal breaker, change the stamina shalks to lose the stun for a snare instead.

Its the same argument that Stamblade use to try and get Debilitate to be changed into a Stamina DoT. Burst means very little in PvE content, with some exceptions, and Stamden's sustain damage is absolutely pitiful that it really needs the help. DoTs are meh in PvP generally so I don't see this as a huge improvement for Stamden, just one that would help them be slightly better for PvE.

I view Falcon's Swiftness as a generally meh skill. Berserk is needed to make it attractive at all, whereas Endurance is just a throw away buff easily acquired via pots and negligible in the grand scheme of things. Birds of Prey will still be the go to morph as extra Damage to an Animal Companion ability is far and away more useful than Minor Evasion, even with the Major Endurance thrown in to sweeten the deal a little.

The reason for Northern Storm cost reduction is that, as you say, the Destro Ultimate is stronger. It makes very little sense for Northern Storm to cost so much when for just 50 more Ultimate, you can get better results with E-Storm, especially when Warden has Ultimate regen that can rival NBs that 50 extra Ultimate is a drop in the bucket for them.

Also, Minor BREECH, not maim gets added to Winter's Revenge. As you say, it's the gold standard for Magden but very few use it for whatever reason. This would give both an incentive to use it as with Breech, they'll get more damage to the rest of their skills and extra group utility (if a Templar isn't present for Power of the Light)

Warden tanks using Sub is not that common. Why waste 2 slots on skills when you can have it all in one. There are some builds of course.
.

You're wrong there. In any situation where there are 3 or more enemies, subterranean assault is quicker and more efficient than using pierce armor. Not every fight is a solo boss fight with nothing else to kill.

That's why the change to only having one debuff or the other is going to hurt warden tanks. Currently they have a unique ability that other tanks do not, and it's getting removed

Maura_Neysa

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I don't main Warden but I do have a few suggestions. No Bear comment as I'm clueless on how to improve it.

Cliff Racer:
Screaming Cliff Racer - Up the extra Damage for this skill from 15% to 20%.
Cutting Cliff Racer - Add Empower (It's getting changed to only buff Light Attacks anyway so it'll be an ever so slight buff but better than nothing) I could see this. After making it dodgable, this would be a PvE buff mostly

Scorch - Stun added to base skill
Subterranean Assault - Major Fracture for 15 seconds. I dont think PvP would be too happy with Stamden getting a Stun. Otherwise I could see this
Deep Fissure - Major Breech for 15 seconds

Swarm - Raise base damage by 10%
Fletcher Infection - Remove 1 positive effect from Target on top of extra damage on subsequent casts
Growing Swarm - Reworked into a Stamina ability that deals Disease Damage with its current effect unchanged. All I'll say here is, StamDen is the 2nd hardest hitting class, why are people so set on adding another skill? As the skill is, your choosing between about 1k extra DPS single target vs 3k DPS AoE. While this skill could use something, I'm not sure this is that something

Falcon's Swiftness - Minor Berserk added to base effect and duration increased to 15 seconds but Major Endurance removed
Deceptive Predator - Keeps current effect with Major Endurance returned So now Deceptive gets Minor Berserk and Minor Evasion? I mean I would love this, but Major Expedition, Major Endurance, Minor Berserk, and Minor Evasion all from one skill? That seems like a lot.
Birds of Prey - Increase Damage of next Animal Companion ability cast.

Sleet Storm:
Northern Storm - Reduced Cost Not sure why this, I mean the reason for this skill is the passive for slotting, otherwise Elemental Rage out performs in every way.

Impaling Shard:
Winter's Revenge - Minor Breech added. Frost Damage already applies Minor Maim, plus Winter's Revenge out DPS Elemental Blockade. I'd say this is the Golden Skill that all other Warden Skills should be balanced against.

Take from it what you will, some people will disagree with some of these suggestions because it'll boost their PvP performance but hey, I tried. With enough discussion, maybe ZoS will pull together something that works.

Above Warden is my favorite class, and the one I main. I do think they need some help. However they are very strong in a lot of respects too. I dont want to see the DK/Templar nerf train hit Warden as hard as it has those two class. I think because of the Wardens high burst capability, this is all close. Especially if a Warden buff is implemented wrong.

The Warden has received Several buffs already, all of which have been very good
• Deceptive Predator - up to 14sec from 10sec
• Frozen Device - Can lay 3 down up from 1 (also got nerfed in that the spawn is visible)
• Nature's Grasp - Travel time speed up by 100%
• Nature's Grasp - Ranged increased to 28m from 22m
• Feral Guardian - 8 sec CC/root Immunity when activating the Ulti

I'd rather see baby steps, and not have ZoS over shoot.

Well, the reason for some of my suggestions is to help Warden as a whole instead of focusing on just the DPS aspects of it.

With Shalks being changed to only provide Fracture or Breech it's going to hurt Warden Tanks as well as Magden that I feel adding the stun to the base skill is a decent compromise to make it at least an option to Warden Tanks as well as Magden/Stamden. If it's that big a deal breaker, change the stamina shalks to lose the stun for a snare instead.

Its the same argument that Stamblade use to try and get Debilitate to be changed into a Stamina DoT. Burst means very little in PvE content, with some exceptions, and Stamden's sustain damage is absolutely pitiful that it really needs the help. DoTs are meh in PvP generally so I don't see this as a huge improvement for Stamden, just one that would help them be slightly better for PvE.

I view Falcon's Swiftness as a generally meh skill. Berserk is needed to make it attractive at all, whereas Endurance is just a throw away buff easily acquired via pots and negligible in the grand scheme of things. Birds of Prey will still be the go to morph as extra Damage to an Animal Companion ability is far and away more useful than Minor Evasion, even with the Major Endurance thrown in to sweeten the deal a little.

The reason for Northern Storm cost reduction is that, as you say, the Destro Ultimate is stronger. It makes very little sense for Northern Storm to cost so much when for just 50 more Ultimate, you can get better results with E-Storm, especially when Warden has Ultimate regen that can rival NBs that 50 extra Ultimate is a drop in the bucket for them.

Also, Minor BREECH, not maim gets added to Winter's Revenge. As you say, it's the gold standard for Magden but very few use it for whatever reason. This would give both an incentive to use it as with Breech, they'll get more damage to the rest of their skills and extra group utility (if a Templar isn't present for Power of the Light)

Warden tanks using Sub is not that common. Why waste 2 slots on skills when you can have it all in one. There are some builds of course.
.

You're wrong there. In any situation where there are 3 or more enemies, subterranean assault is quicker and more efficient than using pierce armor. Not every fight is a solo boss fight with nothing else to kill.

That's why the change to only having one debuff or the other is going to hurt warden tanks. Currently they have a unique ability that other tanks do not, and it's getting removed

Let me rephrase. I personally have never seen a Warden tank running Sub Assualt beyond the building. I've only read it in posted here on the forms. I also personally main a Warden tank with something like a 1000 hours of play time. True there are many more mobs, but most either die quick or require position which limits my willingness to wait for Sub to pop.

SanTii.92

- Rework artic wind into an aoe instant damaging frost cone with a dot, snare and some other group desireble debuff.

- The bear has way too many issues by it's own (buggy, slow, unreliable, unversatile), for the commitment that demands, so just allow us to single bar it. It's time.

- I really shouldn't even be saying this but, for the love of God, do not touch Deep Fissure. For once Zenimax, listen to your player base here, we <almost> unanimously understand this is a terrible change. Seriously, this is potentially a class-breaking nerf, do not persue.

I'd also rework frozen device, too gimmick of a skill in my opinion but whatever.

There, now you got a somewhat decent and functional class.

Lynx7386

Guys you can ask for single bar bear all you want, it will never happen for the same reason sorcerer pets will never be single bar.

Use your heads; the bear dishes out 5k dps on its own, would you give a permanent 5k damage over time skill to any other class? Being a double bar ability is only thing keeping the bear balanced. If it were to be made single bar, it would probably get changed to a 20 second or less duration, and none of us wants to have to recast it that often.