Official Discussion Thread for "Summerset and Update 18 Preview"

Surragard

Any confirmation if housing items purchased with crowns through the purchase tab can also be gifted? Would be nice if a pal who is using my house as a guild house could gift me a crafting bench or something.

I am excited for crown store item trading and jewelry crafting. Both have been asked for a while. I don’t love that jewelry crafting requires a sub (disclaimer: I do currently sub) but I do understand that they want to drive more players into th sub model and jewelry isn’t as critical as say having armor crafting locked behind the sub.

Vanthras79

Did somebody say natch potes?

Ashtaris

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Some interesting stuff.

I think the big talking points will be a crafting system behind an expansion and daily log in rewards.

Crafting system behind a pay wall is going to upset a lot of people. The P2W threads will be strong this expansion.

I love free stuff and won't complain at getting things for something I do any way but the whole "log in for your daily reward" feels very cheesy and F2P mobile game like to me.
If the idea is to get players logging in and playing the game then surely these would have been better as incorporations into some kind of content.

Gotta agree with all of this. Gating Jewelry Crafting behind the Chapter is going to cause a lot of hard feelings from some people. And login rewards feel gimicky and... desperate? I don't think ZOS is desperate, so why create the appearance?

As far as the Jewelry crafting goes, I’m hoping that Rolis will have those crafting stations for sale with writ vouchers. Then you can set one up in your house and offer it to guildies or friends. Concerning the daily rewards, I look at it mainly as a loyalty reward for those who play the game. Besides, I don’t think the rewards are going to be all that exciting. And with my RNG luck, I’ll just get lockpicks

ZOS_GinaBruno

Turelus wrote: »

Some interesting stuff.

I think the big talking points will be a crafting system behind an expansion and daily log in rewards.

Crafting system behind a pay wall is going to upset a lot of people. The P2W threads will be strong this expansion.

I love free stuff and won't complain at getting things for something I do any way but the whole "log in for your daily reward" feels very cheesy and F2P mobile game like to me.
If the idea is to get players logging in and playing the game then surely these would have been better as incorporations into some kind of content.

Just to clear one thing up, the daily login rewards are cumulative, not consecutive. This means you aren't forced to log in every single day to get a thing, but rather, you get a thing each time you log in.

mdylan2013

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Some interesting stuff.

I think the big talking points will be a crafting system behind an expansion and daily log in rewards.

Crafting system behind a pay wall is going to upset a lot of people. The P2W threads will be strong this expansion.

I love free stuff and won't complain at getting things for something I do any way but the whole "log in for your daily reward" feels very cheesy and F2P mobile game like to me.
If the idea is to get players logging in and playing the game then surely these would have been better as incorporations into some kind of content.

Just to clear one thing up, the daily login rewards are cumulative, not consecutive. This means you aren't forced to log in every single day to get a thing, but rather, you get a thing each time you log in.

Ah that’s awesome. Rewards regular players but also encourages people to come back each day

SantieClaws

Khajiit likes things.

Apart from elves.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

mav1234

Virtually nothing about PvP. Daily BG rewards are really minor, albeit better than nothing ... was really hoping they would do a rated mode or something cool for PvP this chapter....

Chufu

SantieClaws wrote: »

Khajiit likes things.

Apart from elves.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

What about Orsimer, Khajiit?

I like the daily login rewards as well btw a nice idea, ZOS!

SantieClaws

Chufu wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

Khajiit likes things.

Apart from elves.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

What about Orsimer, Khajiit?

I like the daily login rewards as well btw a nice idea, ZOS!

You know the heart of this one truly belongs to Bumnog!

It is only snooty elves and grumpy elves this one she views with a certain dislike yes.

Why this one even employs one of the bitey elves as a gardener.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

code65536

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Some interesting stuff.

I think the big talking points will be a crafting system behind an expansion and daily log in rewards.

Crafting system behind a pay wall is going to upset a lot of people. The P2W threads will be strong this expansion.

I love free stuff and won't complain at getting things for something I do any way but the whole "log in for your daily reward" feels very cheesy and F2P mobile game like to me.
If the idea is to get players logging in and playing the game then surely these would have been better as incorporations into some kind of content.

Just to clear one thing up, the daily login rewards are cumulative, not consecutive. This means you aren't forced to log in every single day to get a thing, but rather, you get a thing each time you log in.

That's nice and all... but don't we already have those in the game? Hirelings. Sure, it takes a little bit of upfront investment. So what makes you guys think that the effect from this would be any different?

Jayne_Doe

Surragard wrote: »

Any confirmation if housing items purchased with crowns through the purchase tab can also be gifted? Would be nice if a pal who is using my house as a guild house could gift me a crafting bench or something.

I am excited for crown store item trading and jewelry crafting. Both have been asked for a while. I don’t love that jewelry crafting requires a sub (disclaimer: I do currently sub) but I do understand that they want to drive more players into th sub model and jewelry isn’t as critical as say having armor crafting locked behind the sub.

@Surragard Just to clarify so you're not caught off guard, the chapter is NOT part of ESO+. You will not have access to it as a sub. You will need to PURCHASE it in order to have access to it. Summerset is classed as a chapter, not a regular DLC.

Also, @Ashtaris I'm not quite so sure that jewelry stations from Rolis will work that way. They mentioned that there will be crafting stations throughout Tamriel, but the Chapter will be required in order to use them. This is different from the transmute station, where there was a free one in CWC for those who had the chapter, but then there were ones available to purchase and place in homes for anyone to use. The fact that there will be many stations not locked behind the Summerset zone, plus their statement that the chapter will be required in order to use them, leads me to believe that you cannot use a jewelry station in a guild hall either unless you have the chapter.

Turelus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Some interesting stuff.

I think the big talking points will be a crafting system behind an expansion and daily log in rewards.

Crafting system behind a pay wall is going to upset a lot of people. The P2W threads will be strong this expansion.

I love free stuff and won't complain at getting things for something I do any way but the whole "log in for your daily reward" feels very cheesy and F2P mobile game like to me.
If the idea is to get players logging in and playing the game then surely these would have been better as incorporations into some kind of content.

Just to clear one thing up, the daily login rewards are cumulative, not consecutive. This means you aren't forced to log in every single day to get a thing, but rather, you get a thing each time you log in.

Thanks Gina! That does make a big difference and will clear up some of the speculation.

Miaura

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to clear one thing up, the daily login rewards are cumulative, not consecutive. This means you aren't forced to log in every single day to get a thing, but rather, you get a thing each time you log in.

Ooh thats so good to hear
was allready happy to hear about login rewards earlier, when lvl rewards came I started thinking would be nice to have something similiar for older players, sort of loyalty rewards.
And cumulative makes it even better.

Smith4HirePmMe2Order

The Only thing i want them to do is Increase the Housing Item limit.
During the dragon bones stream they said they would be increasing it for the next Big DLC...

but i dont see anything in here about that... IK we dont have patch notes yet but im really worried cuz housing is MOST of my and several other players gameplay these days, but I/weve run out of stuff to do cuz all our houses are Half finish and maxed on items, which is very frustrating.

Surragard

@Jayne_Doe I am aware but I thought that I read somewhere that the jewelry crafting would require a sub as well? Maybe I misread.

Skullstachio

It is kind of funny how the Summerset Expansion is introducing Jewellery Crafting, but really as soon as I saw that in the disclaimer, it kind of reminded me of these old threads I once posted...

(P.S. Funny how I and many others saw something like this before it came to, such is the way of things I suppose, the commentary was impressive especially from some of the cool community ambassadors.)

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/303206/do-you-wish-to-see-jewellery-improvement-in-the-future

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/313393/what-are-the-chances-of-there-being-jewellery-crafting-improvement

Thread Link Disclaimer: these two threads are old, you can still view them but I highly advise that you "Do Not" Necro-post any commentary.

LadyNalcarya

Another vAS? Damn, thats disappointing.
WTB another vMoL.

Shadowshire

Quoting the article:

This update also brings a brand new Crown Store feature: gifting. With gifting, you can purchase and send Crown Store items to your friends and allies, and you'll be able to easily track your sent and received gifts. Almost every item in the Crown Store can be gifted, but there are some conditions.

Consequently, your "friends" and "allies" will be able to demand that you send "gifts" to them in order to enjoy playing the game with their "elite" team and/or trading via their "elite" guild. And various groups of pals will be rewarded for banding together to harsh and grief the play of the game unless and until their individual, respective victims agree to send them "gifts" to be left free of their harassment -- for a while.

Whether anyone will indeed fall for it, you can bet there will be players who will attempt to extort Crown store "items" from other players, and some who will succeed often enough to make the effort worthwhile. Greed begets greed, and ultimately there is no one who is better off for it.

Shadowshire

Quoting from the article:

.... Summerset also brings a new group activity not found on the larger continent of Tamriel: Abyssal Geysers. Scattered across the island, these new group activities spawn waves of fierce monsters and must be shut down before they overrun the surface.

Speaking of which, why were Dolmens omitted from Wrothgar, Hew's Bane, The Gold Coast, and Morrowind? (No Dolmens in Imperial City Sewers and Clockwork City, okay.) Are their zones not part and parcel with the rest of Tamriel? Are their populations not affected by the aspirations of the "God of Schemes ", Molag Bal? Note: it's also a fair question to ask why Dolmens are not found in Cyrodill, too, but why go there?

About the Psyjic Order:

.... These newfound abilities are not to be taken lightly. When wielding the Psijic Order Skill Line, you will be able to empower yourself and your weapons, slow and freeze enemies in place, and even rewind time! This new Skill Line will be available for all characters and classes, and whatever your role or playstyle in The Elder Scrolls Online, you can find wondrous-but-powerful new abilities with the Psijic Order. Use them wisely.

LMAO. This reminds me of Milton's line in Paradise Lost: "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."

Whether we will use them wisely is not the question, but whether they will be designed and implemented wisely and free of flaws and errors is germane to the prospect. Contemplating the likely outcome, this is even worse than the introduction of six new "traits" for crafted jewelry.

After all, out of the nine traits for weapons and for armor, respectively, only about half have a benefit that is commonly considered acceptable, whether preferrable to any others. ZOS is not likely to make any improvements which will change that ratio.

What makes you think that six more traits for crafted jewelry will be any different, relative to the benefits of the current three? Will the developers nerf the existing ones so that they can put lipstick on a pig?

IMHO, what the developers should do is reduce the number of traits for weapons and armor to five, or at least to seven -- unless they can actually come up with better ideas for the benefits of more than that.

Change for the sake of change is not why we need or want change. What we want is genuine innovation.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Shadowshire wrote: »

Speaking of which, why were Dolmens omitted from Wrothgar, Hew's Bane, The Gold Coast, and Morrowind? (No Dolmens in Imperial City Sewers and Clockwork City, okay.) Are their zones not part and parcel with the rest of Tamriel? Are their populations not affected by the aspirations of the "God of Schemes ", Molag Bal? Note: it's also a fair question to ask why Dolmens are not found in Cyrodill, too, but why go there?

...I'm having trouble telling whether you're being ironic here, but just in case you're serious:

Wrothgar does have a Dolmen site, there's a world boss attached. And Cyrodiil has multiple even without counting the giant one trying to pull in White-Gold Tower.

IIRC for Vvardenfell they hand-waved it that Vivec was protecting the island.

Septimus_Magna

I feel like the same couple questions are being asked here.

You can research, upgrade and transmute all jewelry pieces. You can only decon jewelry pieces that drop after Summerset goes live.

The Cloudrest trail will have 4 bosses, it will take a while to complete, its more challenging than current trials and it requires very good team coordination.

You will be able to visit Summerset (main island) and Artheum (home of Psijic Order).

The Psijic Order skill line will give an ultimate, active and passive skills. We know the ult is called Undo and teleports the player 4s back in time. Your stats and location will be reset, its not clear if this also affects buffs and debuffs. One active skill is called Mediate and lets you restore stats but its unclear how this skill works.

Shadowshire

Surragard wrote: »

Any confirmation if housing items purchased with crowns through the purchase tab can also be gifted? Would be nice if a pal who is using my house as a guild house could gift me a crafting bench or something. ....

A player character that is a Master Crafter can fulfill Master Crafting Writs to earn Crafting Vouchers. Crafting stations (including ones which are "attunable" to a crafting station for a crafted Set), are purchasable with those vouchers from Rolis Hlaalu at the capital city of the Alliance of which the player's character is a member.

If your character is does not craft anything (why would you want a "crafting bench" if they don't?), then someone in your friend's guild probably does. If so, then they should be able to obtain a Crafting Station of your choice and send it to you via e-mail.

There is no need to buy Crowns with Dollars in order to obtain what you want unless the item cannot be obtained in any way in the course of playing the game. As far as I know, the only Homestead furnishing that cannot be crafted is a set of burning logs that will fit inside a fireplace, but it can be bought by using the Housing Editor feature that accesses furnishings available from the Crown Store. There are crafty ways to make one by using the Housing Editor to place a burning item, such as the Nord Triple Torch, into the fireplace floor, then add a stack of charred logs. The flame from the torch will show through the stack.

Shadowshire

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Shadowshire wrote: »

Speaking of which, why were Dolmens omitted from Wrothgar, Hew's Bane, The Gold Coast, and Morrowind? (No Dolmens in Imperial City Sewers and Clockwork City, okay.) Are their zones not part and parcel with the rest of Tamriel? Are their populations not affected by the aspirations of the "God of Schemes ", Molag Bal? Note: it's also a fair question to ask why Dolmens are not found in Cyrodill, too, but why go there?

...I'm having trouble telling whether you're being ironic here, but just in case you're serious:

Wrothgar does have a Dolmen site, there's a world boss attached. And Cyrodiil has multiple even without counting the giant one trying to pull in White-Gold Tower.

IIRC for Vvardenfell they hand-waved it that Vivec was protecting the island.

Mostly my remark points-out that the "additions" to Tamriel and to its lore have not, at least on the face of it, been connected to the lore which underpins the Main Quest of The Elder Scrolls Online. They pretty much ignore Molag Bal entirely, and I cannot recall finding any agents of Daedric Princes trying to do anything pertaining to his Planemeld scheme.

(1) You are right about the Dolmen in Wrothgar, which summons Zandular when it becomes active. But it is the only one in Wrothgar, whereas all other zones that have any active Dolmens have three.

Granted, I suppose that Hew's Bane and The Gold Coast are too small to require three Dolmens. But perhaps at least one should have been included, to remind us that they would be part of the Planemeld. It seems that the development team forgot, even if all of the players didn't.

To which I want to add: the only Dolmen in Craglorn is never active. The first quest in the Craglorn main quest line is to "investigate" it, and it is shown on the map as a "place of interest". The goal of Craglorn's main quest is to find and defeat the Serpent, who has captured two of the three principal "Celestials" (The Warrior, The Mage, and The Thief). It does not concern Molag Bal or any other Daedric Prince, rather, it is a story about its own dieties. Namely, the "Celestials" -- who are represented by stellar constellations -- which empower Mundus stones. Their constellations also serve as categories for the Champion Point system.

• It is unclear as to whether the anticipated new "traits for Jewelry will be related in any respect to the Mundus stones, as the current trio of traits and the array of Jewelry enchantments are related to them. There doesn't seem to be a plan to increase the number of Mundus stones, or the number of Essence runestones.

(2) Frankly, although three of my characters have ventured throughout Cyrodill several times, I cannot recall having ever seen a Dolmen there; I don't recall seeing any on the Map or the mini-Map as "undiscovered". Nor can I recall ever hearing one becoming active, which can be heard a considerable distance away in any other zone. Is there a recent Update in which they were added?

The effect of a Dolmen is to fetch player characters within earshot to attack the cultists who have opened its connection to Cold Harbor by sacrificing an innocent NPC. Thus, it brings them together as an ad hoc group with a common enemy, regardless of their respective allegiances.

In contrast, Cyrodill is where individual and groups of player characters which are bound to opposing Alliances endeavor to kill one another, not cooperate with one another. Their main goal is to enthrone someone's player character as the most recent Emperor. Also note that many abilities, especially their morphs, are better either for PvE or for PvP. So the Daedra at a Cyrodill Dolmen (if there is one) ordinarily would be fought by player characters equipped and prepared for PvP.


As to TESO lore: At the end of the main quest in Wrothgar, Varian Aquilarios alias The Prophet, appears and warns the hero that "there is a war coming" and "the Daedric Princes are choosing sides". He also says that it is his final appearance to the hero and bids farewell.

Nothing further about that "war" has been evident in the subsequent DLCs prior to Morrowind. Even there, the affliction of Vivec involves an "unknown force" to which Meridia (among others) refers, one which has not become clear to me (so far) as my charcacters pursue quests there.

Further, Vivec is not a Daedric Prince, but one of the various Dieties. He joins Almalexia and Sotha Sil to form the Tribunal of the Dark Elf religion. Albeit, there is a question as to whether Sotha Sil is actually a Diety or just such a powerful Mage that some consider him divine, i.e., as "a god". Indeed, it is hard to imagine that what happens to Vivec, who appears to be another "ascended mortal", could ever happen to a Daedric Prince.

The members of that trio are not listed among the 17 Daedric Princes by the UESP: Lore: Daedric_Princes

Whether any Diety (whatever their origin) could prevent part of Tamriel from being "melded" into Cold Harbor is not implicit in their respective characterizations in the original The Elder Scrolls lore. Regardless, whether for better or for worse, apparently TESO ZOS designers prefer to drift into some yet-to-be-revealed additions to that lore. (Whether the current team can do that creatively remains to be seen, too.)

That said, the general concept has been that a Daedric Prince cannot prevent any other Daedric Prince from doing whatever that Prince may choose to do, at least not in their respective plane of Oblivion. Nonetheless, Meridia was able to attach an Imperial city to Cold Harbor when Molag Bal acted to increase the size of his plane. That is the origin of Hollow City, a refuge for those who can find it there, and a place where a player character recruits and organizes NPC companions to carry out an assault on "The God of Schemes".

Regardless, "the eight most powerful" Daedric Princes are bound by a pact, organized by Sotha Sil, to not intervene directly in the lives of those who reside in Tamriel. Nonetheless, any character who lives in Tamriel has the freedom to worship a Daedric Prince and serve as their agent, acting on that Prince's behalf.

Note: Hermaeus Mora, the Daedric Prince of Knowledge, appears in many quests throughout TESO including some in the DLCs. However, he is neither implicitly nor explicitly related to the Planemeld engineered by Molag Bal, the Daedric Prince of Brutality and Domination.

VaranisArano

Shadowshire wrote: »

As to TESO lore: At the end of the main quest in Wrothgar, Varian Aquilarios alias The Prophet, appears and warns the hero that "there is a war coming" and "the Daedric Princes are choosing sides". He also says that it is his final appearance to the hero and bids farewell.

Nothing further about that "war" has been evident in the subsequent DLCs prior to Morrowind. Even there, the affliction of Vivec involves an "unknown force" to which Meridia (among others) refers, one which has not become clear to me (so far) as my charcacters pursue quests there.

Further, Vivec is not a Daedric Prince, but one of the various Dieties. He joins Almalexia and Sotha Sil to form the Tribunal of the Dark Elf religion. Albeit, there is a question as to whether Sotha Sil is actually a Diety or just such a powerful Mage that some consider him divine, i.e., as "a god". Indeed, it is hard to imagine that what happens to Vivec, who appears to be another "ascended mortal", could ever happen to a Daedric Prince.

No offense and no spoilers, but if you are still questing in Vvardenfell and haven't done Clockwork City, I'm not surprised you aren't clear on what's going on in the Daedric War story arc, seeing as how that's the very content that tells that story.

Furthermore, the base game and DLC zones are locked in time with Auridon always happening before Greenshade, for example. All the faction zones comes before the completion of Coldharbor, thus are eternally locked into the Planemeld. Orsinium thus also takes place after the Planemeld, given you find Darien's note in the library talking about what happened to him after the Coldharbor quests. Therefore, the Daedric Wars plotline happens after the Planemeld as well, though time-hopping nature of the Vestige thanks to ZOS deciding we needed a new tutorial in each chapter makes that more complex than it needed to be.

Gamergirl1973

It all sounds great and I cannot wait to explore the island!! Is there any word if there will be more character slots for purchase with the new content?

midgetfromtheshire

Shadowshire wrote: »

(2) Frankly, although three of my characters have ventured throughout Cyrodill several times, I cannot recall having ever seen a Dolmen there; I don't recall seeing any on the Map or the mini-Map as "undiscovered". Nor can I recall ever hearing one becoming active, which can be heard a considerable distance away in any other zone. Is there a recent Update in which they were added?

There are 10 dolmens located in Cyrodiil though you won't find any icon for them like you would in PvE (unless you install the addon Destinations). If you zoom in your map, all will you see are brown shapes similar to the other structures littered throughout the map.

I'm assuming this is to reduce the visual clutter for the pvpers looking at the map of fights, etc.

If you press J and find Dark Anchors under Exploration, you'll find a list of every dolmen in the game.

Surragard

@Shadowshire I’m aware you can complete master crafting writs but I’m not that into the grind to save those up so I would prefer to just buy with crowns. Would be nice if friends could just do the same and gift the item is my only point.

Shadowshire

LONG!

VaranisArano wrote: »

Shadowshire wrote: »

As to TESO lore: At the end of the main quest in Wrothgar, Varian Aquilarios alias The Prophet, appears and warns the hero that "there is a war coming" and "the Daedric Princes are choosing sides". He also says that it is his final appearance to the hero and bids farewell.

Nothing further about that "war" has been evident in the subsequent DLCs prior to Morrowind. Even there, the affliction of Vivec involves an "unknown force" to which Meridia (among others) refers, one which has not become clear to me (so far) as my charcacters pursue quests there.

....

....

Furthermore, the base game and DLC zones are locked in time with Auridon always happening before Greenshade, for example. All the faction zones comes before the completion of Coldharbor, thus are eternally locked into the Planemeld. Orsinium thus also takes place after the Planemeld, given you find Darien's note in the library talking about what happened to him after the Coldharbor quests. Therefore, the Daedric Wars plotline happens after the Planemeld as well, though time-hopping nature of the Vestige thanks to ZOS deciding we needed a new tutorial in each chapter makes that more complex than it needed to be.

Your remark about "Auridon always happening before Greenshade" reminds me that One Tamriel implicitly deprecated the quest progression through the zones, which is the foundation for the game as a character's journey through "history", i.e., through time.

The two characters which I played when One Tamriel was released had recently finished their respective Cadwell's Almanac quests, and were at the "Veteran Rank 16" XP Level (now Level 50 CP 160). Although any player can still follow the same path with their character(s) today, One Tamriel has largely relegated doing that to those who are among the few who desire to do so. When I see a character wearing Cadwell's helm, then I congratulate the player for that achievement, and, in that respect at least, find a kindred spirit.

You explain well the omission of Dolmens from Wrothgar -- other than the one that summons Zandular, which was allegedly constructed by some cultists seeking a connection to Oblivion, whether they served Molag Bal.

If I recall correctly, one or more of my characters met Darien in Wrothgar, but I don't recall whether any found the "note in the library" which you mention. There's an Orc NPC whose name I cannot recall at the moment (Skordo the Knife -?-) who appears in Wrothgar, too. My characters first encountered him in Riften, then subsequently among the survivors of the initial expedition to Cold Harbor.

In that context, the evident purpose of Hew's Bane was to further the development of Thieves and their ilk, with The Gold Coast appealing to wannabe "assassin" killers-for-hire. But the Thugee cult in India was nothing admirable in its day. Frankly, I don't consider such content of either DLC to be a meaningful or welcome addition to The Elder Scrolls lore in any respect.

Personally, it irks me that "stealth" has been incorporated into many of the required -?- quests in Vvardenfel in the way that it has. Acquiring necessary information and resources by stealth is not, on the face of it, a crime, rather than a justifiable tactic or strategy. So, applying a "bounty" on the character for "tresspassing" regardless of whether the character was discovered by any NPC on the property is unjustifiable.

Sneaking around and hiding takes a lot of time. Finding a path to the goal and a path for departure often produces "dead ends". I use a significant number of invisibility potions, albeit judiciously, but avoiding NPCs who carry torches, lamps, or lanterns can be impossible.

Then yet more time is wasted when some guard(s) attack the character. Worse, the character is seriously handicapped while attempting to defend themselves. There is seldom any feasible means of escape. If the character is forced to kill a "guard", then they also incurr a huge bounty for "murder".

In effect, the player must turn-off the ESC > Setting > "Prevent Attacks Upon Innocents" before undertaking such a part of the quest, then restore it afterward to avoid accidents. At least the character might escape alive when they are attacked. Not that any "guard" who intends to summarily kill someone for tresspassing is "innocent" in the ethos of any society in which I would care to live. (For what it is worth, personally I was for a while employed as an armed guard, so maybe my regard for these features of the game is not unlike those of veterans of military combat who regard games like TESO with disgust.)

And to top it all off, every "law enforcement" NPC whom the player's character may subsequently encounter just automagically "knows" the "reputation" of the character, and might attack without any warning. When the opportunity to buy the character's freedom and life is presented, paying a "bounty" really sours any satisfaction from the player's time and effort. In my experience, the character cannot actually exercise the supposed option to "flee". What is the point?


As you may gather from those remarks, I played only a few quests in Hew's Bane pertaining to thievery, which I found to be rather boring. And I have played no quest in The Gold Coast for which the goal is to "assassinate" an NPC. Such quests are morally repugnant to me, and not the sort which I expect to enjoy.

Inserting their kind into the subsequent content of TESO, such as Morrowind, as a "normal" feature of the main story line for adventuring has the risk of becoming a compelling reason to find some other game to play instead.

Regardless, thank-you for your comments. I wish I had more faith in TESO game designers with regard to their additions to the "story arc(s)" of the pre-existing Elder Scrolls lore. It seems to me that they are likely to take liberties with it for the wrong reasons.

Shadowshire

@midgetfromtheshire

Thank-you for the information about Cyrodill Dolmens. Although I use many add-ons, Destinations has not been among them. I am aware of the list of Dolmens in the Journal Achievements, which I have examined before, but I don't recall seeing any for Cyrodill. IIRC, for each zone, it lists the Dolmens by name but does not disclose the location in the zone itself.

So maybe I should use Destinations if I want to do any more PvE quests in Cyrodill. Undertaking and completing them can be a challenge, since my characters prefer to be non-combatants with respect to the Alliance War. My primary goal has been obtaining the Skyshards, and credit for completing the delves and dungeons in which most of them are located. Fighting at Dolmens is fun, but all the character gains is XP and an occasional Achievement nod.

VaranisArano

Shadowshire wrote: »

If I recall correctly, one or more of my characters met Darien in Wrothgar, but I don't recall whether any found the "note in the library" which you mention. There's an Orc NPC whose name I cannot recall at the moment (Skordo the Knife -?-) who appears in Wrothgar, too. My characters first encountered him in Riften, then subsequently among the survivors of the initial expedition to Cold Harbor.

In that context, the evident purpose of Hew's Bane was to further the development of Thieves and their ilk, with The Gold Coast appealing to wannabe "assassin" killers-for-hire. But the Thugee cult in India was nothing admirable in its day. Frankly, I don't consider such content of either DLC to be a meaningful or welcome addition to The Elder Scrolls lore in any respect.

Personally, it irks me that "stealth" has been incorporated into many of the required -?- quests in Vvardenfel in the way that it has. Acquiring necessary information and resources by stealth is not, on the face of it, a crime, rather than a justifiable tactic or strategy. So, applying a "bounty" on the character for "tresspassing" regardless of whether the character was discovered by any NPC on the property is unjustifiable.

Sorry, I edited yours down for length to the parts I was responding to, I hope that's okay.

Darien's Note: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/File:Wrothgar_--_Darien's_Note_in_the_Orsinium_Library.png

The Thieves Guild: This has been a joinable faction for practically every game in the Elder Scrolls series.

The Dark Brotherhood: Regardless of your feelings about the Thugee Cult, the Dark Brotherhood has been a joinable faction in both Oblivion and Skyrim, with Morrowind allowing you to join the Morag Tong instead. If you ever played Morrowind's Tribunal expansion, you get to kill a bunch of Dark Brotherhood agents.

Needless to say, calling the content of the TG and DB DLC to be a unwelcome addition to The Elder Scrolls lore in any respect is not something I agree with. I don't think either reached the heights of Oblivion or Skyrim in terms of their story-telling but both were solid additions to the lore building on previous games. Again, you haven't played the quests and don't intend to, so I can't really discuss the contents of them without spoilers. However, since I've played them and played the relevant quests from the other TES games, I can say that in my opinion the TG and DB DLC questlines fit well with the lore of the Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood from the single-player TES games. Neither adds anything new or interesting, perhaps, but they are both good and fun to play from the perspective of someone who liked those factions in the single-player game. I think the DLC could have been more original or taken more risks, but I think they were fine additions. Nevertheless, if you don't care for the content, that's your prerogative to not do the content.


The trepassing aspects of certain quests in Morrowind did bother me because I find it annoying even on the characters I build for stealth and murdering, so doing those quests on characters not meant for that is even worse. It also effectively locks people who roleplay truly law-abiding characters out of some major quests. - though, admittedly, the Elder Scrolls games have never been kind to paladins and other law-abiding types.